revenge of the sith

[peter falk]

i highly recommend this. there is nothing fairy tale

about this film. it is a dark and serious

examiniation of evil. one of the lessons that i'm

sure 90% of the audience missed--the hippy version of

compassion is a direct path to the darkside. the

cold, ruthless comapssion of the jedi is what

preserves human dignity. yeah, the political

relevance was sort of interesting. but that was just a

side effect of the real story. and everyone's missed

it. george lucas is a genious. everyone but the evil

chancellor and the jedi knights, were completely

asleep, including annikan (darth vader). it was

horribly close to real life. if you don't wanna know

what people are really like (including you), DO NOT

see this film.

[HaPPyMaraXXus]

Peter, that is an excellent notation.

 

I guess that makes a little more sense now, for me anyway, I caught what you were talking about, but still had not formulated my thoughts upon it. Went to see this with my sister, and when we were leaving her face was swallowed in tears. I said "hey, you really liked it, huh?" (she loves movies that make her cry, one of those overpowered YIN type o' gals), and all she said at the time was "Well, I'm not sure of that yet. We'll talk about it later, but not now." I knew how she was feeling there, although I did not share the same reaction as far as emotional pour.

The opened insight on the nature of evil and how it harbors the ability to hide and work its way into the lives of some who are oblivious is what I think really bothered her.

 

Another one o' those fluffy life celebraters, do ya.

 

It is going to be interesting to watch this story in sequence now...with the new technology for the start, and then unfolding into the old technology as representation of the closing. Getting pretty excited! Have to wait for the box set come out with the last prequel series...

 

Kuhdes-mekhitt,

-Jessica

[RedFox]

i highly recommend this.  there is nothing fairy tale

about this film.  it is a dark and serious

examiniation of evil.  one of the lessons that i'm

sure 90% of the audience missed--the hippy version of

compassion is a direct path to the darkside.  the

cold, ruthless comapssion of the jedi is what

preserves human dignity.  yeah, the political

relevance was sort of interesting.  but that was just a

side effect of the real story.  and everyone's missed

it.  george lucas is a genious.  everyone but the evil

chancellor and the jedi knights, were completely

asleep, including annikan (darth vader).  it was

horribly close to real life.  if you don't wanna know

what people are really like (including you), DO NOT

see this film.

3906[/snapback]

 

I just saw it a few hours ago so I'm still kinda digesting it, btu i have to agree... It certainly was quite stunning in that regard.

[Lozen]

the hippy version of

compassion is a direct path to the darkside.  the

cold, ruthless comapssion of the jedi is what

preserves human dignity. 

3906[/snapback]

 

i just saw it today, too. i think i get part of what you mean, but tell us more!! you mean that he was really struggling to do the right thing but didn't really feel it or understand it?

 

i just thought about how ego takes over (ego + power = evil) and how he was just upset at these perceived injustices (not being made a master, etc.) and also a lot of fear (the death of his wife and child) and helplessness at being unable to stop it.

[Cameron]

Yoda broke it down. Right before Annaken turns to the dark side by killing Samuel Jackson he goes to see Yoda. Yoda tells him how he must train to let go of attachment and fear of loss of even those he most loves.

 

Or something like that..

[Cameron]

I liked how the Lord Siddius tells Annaken that he can teach him the power to save his girls life .Then right after Annaken helps him kill Samuel Jackson and screws up his path the dude says "Actually..only 1 person has ever learned how to do that..but I know we can figure it out together."

 

I mean...wouldn't a half way intelligent Jedi knight first ask if the dude really had the ability to save people from dying.

 

He turned to the dark side on a hunch! Lol!

 

I would have had to get some proof..bring this cockaroach back to live...ok now this dead bird..

 

Even then I would probably not do it though..you know..killing little kid Jedi's and all that business

[peter falk]

Yoda broke it down. Right before Annaken turns to the dark side by killing Samuel Jackson he goes to see Yoda. Yoda tells him how he must train to let go of attachment and fear of loss of even those he most loves.

 

Or something like that..

3925[/snapback]

 

obewon delivered on this when he "killed" annaken. no room for sentimentality in the life of a jedi. god! what a triumph that was. sacrificed his greatest love to save humanity. fuckin neo in the matrix couldnt do that.

[BobD]

Not yet seen the film but hoping to do so next week or the week after.

 

obewon delivered on this when he "killed" annaken.  no room for sentimentality in the life of a jedi.  god! what a triumph that was.  sacrificed his greatest love to save humanity.  fuckin neo in the matrix couldnt do that.

To paraphrase another classic:

 

"Jedi are not sentimental, they treat all things as straw-dogs"

[Cameron]

Ok..before I study for this damn Employment Law test..Let's get really deep...

 

How would the jedi handle modern day problems?

 

If Yoda and the council was runnin' things...

 

How would they deal with 9/11 and Terrorism?

 

Economical problems(homeless people and stuff)

 

Corrupt business or political people?

 

Discuss..

[peter falk]

How would the jedi handle modern day problems?

 

with the force.

[corpathina]

wasn't it so awesome when yoda killed those gaurds that were about to kill him because he could sense the disturbance in the force? ahhh.. he's so badass.

 

-em

[MatthewQi]

Wow! what a great movie! just saw it tonight and will be digesting it for a while. A lot of good stuff in there...

 

Makes me think how fine the line between good and evil is. It is like a razors edge...

 

In my opinion, the root of good and the root of evil is the same - for whatever that is worth

 

Anaken was not mature enough to become a Master and was not mature enough to discern his egoic nature from his true nature even after being advised by Yoda. This is indeed a very difficult task at any given moment for anyone whether on a spiritual path or not. I guess he does fulfill the prophecy later in the series when he realizes the error of his ways and takes out the emperor (was that return of the jedi?? been too many years for me to recall, my friend reminded me that it was 28 years ago that the first one came out - man I am getting old:) )...

 

Matt

[Yoda]

Just saw it--awesome movie!!!!

 

The whole thing breaks down if you really think about it as there really is no dark side and no 'selfless' light side in real life nor in the movie.

 

There were lots of things that weren't convincing-- Anakin's conversion, Jedi's getting duped all the time, Sith lineage transmission (students always kill there master, so why bother with having a lineage?), etc.

 

Having said that, I dig the Sith philosophy of 'darkness' it's very Osho--not rejecting selfishness and badness or any aspect of life that Jedis, spiritual seekers, idealists, governments, etc try to reject. This very rejection of darkness and evil is why the Sith or W has such an easy time controlling Yoda, the Senate, and everyone else.

 

Understand the light but stick with the dark. Anyone who really understands the dark side is by nature a lazy tao master knowing with certainty that life is always absolutely perfect.

 

Defitely a must see. Up there with the original movies.

 

-Yoda

[OpenSecret2012]

99% of everyone who see this movie and all the "fans" won't get the deeeeeeeepest underlyning meaning.

 

It's all about manipulation.

 

*spoilers in here so if ya havent seen it yet, dont read anymore!*

 

- Obi-Wan says his allegiance is to the Senate and Democracy. In other words to the goverment. This is after the goverment army try to kill him! He's still a "sucker".

 

- Yoda, Mace, n rest of the Jedi get manipulated into doing treason. Into overthrowing the Senate. Remember when they have their last meeting? "To stop the chanceler we must take over the Senate."

 

Anyone here read that old classic book "Clan of the Cave Bear"? (Movie was ok, but the book will rip your mind apart!!! Starts out superslow, then you can't live without it.) In "Clan of the Cave Bear" it talks about how the girl was observing the animals she hunted.

 

1. She had a hard time hunting the plant eaters. Rabbits, deer, whatever. She had to invent ways to catch them cuz they're soo fast.

 

2. The book then talks about when she starts hunting the animal predators!. She had a super hard time hunting animal predators. She instantly noticed the difference of hunting the predators and the prey! Predators were more cunning, more smarter, more quiet, more sneaky, more stronger. Lions, tigers, on and on.

 

3. After she learned how to hunt BOTH prey and predators, she mastered life!

 

Back to this movie! The Jedi know only good and reject learning about bad. The Sith know good and bad. (Many examples of good jedi who then become badguys. They know and have good powers and bad powers.). Advantage = Sith n badguys. Cuz they admit good and evil exist. The stupid jedi can't believe evil exists!!!!!!!

A super-master would be someone who studies the jedi and sith and then steers clear of both LOL! Not allowing jedi or sith to become their master, or stay as their master.

The Emperor makes a good speech when he says to be effective, one must study ALL sides. Not be narrowminded like the Jedi. And he's RIGHT. Jedi brought their own downfall. Their fault they died. Their fault they were suckers, and remained suckers.

 

I still don't get why Yoda ran away like a sissy bitch! Him and the sith lord guy both fall down. Yoda doesn't take advantage of the sith lord hanging by 1 hand! It brings back a point a friend of mine made after we saw "Daredevil". Daredevil refused to kill the Kingpin. My friend said the real reason good doesn't completly wipe out evil is cuz good needs evil. Anyone here ever watch the old Superfriends cartoon? At end of every show Robin would complain the badguys are getting away and they could go after them and catch them! Batman and Superman would STOP Robin! And say "We can catch them another day!"

Same thing Yoda did by not finnishing off the sith lord while the sith lord guy was hanging by 1 hand. Same thing Obi-Wan didnt finnish off the other sith lord.

 

Bottom line? The deeeeeep point?

Good makes evil. Good refuses to 100% destroy evil cuz Good needs evil. Good feeds evil.

Evil is stronger than good cuz evil doesnt try to follow rules. But this can be greatest weakness of evil. Evil destroys itself becuz of this.

 

Manipulation works. Everyone is a sucker to a good manipulater.

EVERYONE GO WATCH "SIN CITY"! Best f-----in answer to EVERYTHING is the speech the top badguy gives to Bruce Willis in the hospital. Power isnt being able to kill. TRUE Power is being able to lie to anyone, and getting them to believe you - even when they KNOW your lying to them! Cuz if they stop believing your lies, they'll have to admit they FELL for your lies in the first place hahahaha!

 

lying = manipulating.

 

This new star wars movie is about the SAME thing Sin City is about! Sin City just makes it clearer. Manipulation baby!!!!!!!!!

[...]

one thing.... I really like when the emperor first let loose that he knew the dark side... 'that to fully understand the force you have to study all of its aspects'.. or something like that....

If the siddhi's (is that what they were called..) that if they were evil, then the jedi council was just the flip side of that coin... the jedi's, were afterall, dogmatic in the sense that they did recognize evil. ....

I want to read about the jedi who knew both light and dark sides of the force and brings them to balance... and so he is the most enlightened, and most powerful entity of the galaxy.....

 

oh well, it was cool at the end when yoda was talking about having obi-wan commune to an immortal entity so he could learn the secrets of immortaliy. I liked that alot.......

[peter falk]

The stupid jedi can't believe evil exists!!!!!!!

 

not true. in fact there is nothing in any of the movies that supports this. in fact, the movies support the opposite. now there are people in real life who think that way....

 

Good makes evil. Good refuses to 100% destroy evil cuz Good needs evil. Good feeds evil.

 

true. this also a two-way street. evil needs good. the taiji, or taoist yinyang symbol as it is also called, is the symbolic representation of this. in later heaven, all things are known by their opposite. both "good" and "evil" require each other's existence because they each need an enemy.

 

Evil is stronger than good cuz evil doesnt try to follow rules. But this can be greatest weakness of evil. Evil destroys itself becuz of this.

 

negatory, good buddy. good and evil exist in balance, whatever that balance is. and if things get out of balance, balance must be restored. locally, in some small corenr of the universe, evil may appear to be stronger, and in some other small corner good may appear to be stronger. overall, the balance is always there.

 

evil destroys itself because the minions of darkness cannot work together, except in teh most temporary arrangements. each individual is looking to advance his or her own agenda. if cooperation is suitable to that end, members of the darkside can work together, provided they each feel some benefit, some increase in power, from that arrangement. meantime, the scheme about how to take out their partners so they can rise to the top of the heap. the ultimate, supreme, and pure selfishness, is what undoes them in the end. this is very typical, very basic darkside psychology. one of it's symptoms is certainly rule breaking for selfish gain.

 

the light side gets its strength from the ability to cooperate to achieve a common goal that is to the benefit of all, and for which none of them benefit particularly. if they lose this power to work together, they fail. thus, even if a single shaman or master, or adept appears to be working alone, he actually has the unseen support of countless others who preceded him--the ancestors. the darkside does not have this power.

 

in spite of this, the darkside will never be wiped out, nor will the light. they are both part of the great cosmic dance and both essential to it.

[...]

yeah I thought something like that, too.... why bother at all interfering with politics and evil people and their schemes? I guess they feel they need to KEEP balance, and that there is no faith that the force will keep balance itself? are they just allowing themselves to be pawns in this act of 'balancing'? uh er... I dont know if I am making sense now.

 

hehe does anybody else notice the difference in behavior of the yoda in these newer movies and the yoda that luke skywalker finds on that uninhhabited planet? haha it seems that exile and lonilness has certainly taken its toll on the little green guy...

oh yeah and does anybody else feel that the backwards in talking a little old it is?

[peter falk]

i like our yoda a little better. same great looks, better grammar.

[OpenSecret2012]

not true.  in fact there is nothing in any of the movies that supports this. in fact, the movies support the opposite.  now there are people in real life who think that way....

 

In the Phant Menace movie all the jedi say it. They cant believe evil exist. Even after the 2 jedi tell em twice that they met 2 sith lords in person. "The sith no longer exist!" the rest of the jedi suckers whine. The sith guys are suppose to be the greatest enemy of the jedi guys. If you had intell that your greatest enemy resurfaced, are u gonna deny it? or go make sure its true and take em out with ALL your power?(again LOL!). S---- , ALL the jedi council should've bum rushed Naboo looking for Maul! LOL! Then probe his mind same way Luke in return of da jedi got his mind probed about his sister. Find out who Maul's mastah iz, and where.

 

Even in this NEW movie, the jedi say it again. After the snot tells Mace about the sith lordy lord. Mace says he still doesnt trust anakin. The snot just gave ya major intell! Mace was short on backup and still "locks anakin in his room" LOL! Jedi got what they deserved.

 

Another thing that shows the jedi are stupid. In the Phant Menace movie, after they find snotty Anakin, so what if hes suppose to be the "choosen one"? At that point the sith guys were suppose to be wiped out. There wasnt any threat to the Jedi. Its like building 1,000 nukes AFTER you wiped out all your enemies LOL!.

"He's the choosen one? OK. Leave him with his mommie. If we ever need him in the future we'll know where to find the little snot." =)

[Cameron]

Wow you guys are reading deeply into this stuff. When you hear George Lucas get inteviewed and the guy talks about how it's a tragedy about Darth Vader. Darth Vader was the first character he created before the rest of the story was even made up and it was meant to be about this guy who get's turned to the dark side.

 

Yoda was something he didn't put much of any thought into. Yoda was the head of the jedi council and he didn't put much into him. Even in a recent interview I saw him say "To be honest I don't know where Yoda is from or much about him..he is a mystery."

 

I remember the debate/argument between Michael Winn and Eric Yudelove years ago on the HT board was basically all about this. Eric was basically going on about how he was a powerful sorcerer and his many years of training had made him very powerful and he could become an immortal in a kind of powerful and mysterious way. He had a dragon named Yoshio that he said would visit you in your dreams and fuck you up if you messed with him or talked shit on the internet

 

very Darth Vader..ish

 

Then along came Winn battling Eric with his "Taoist practice is all about balance and harmony" and how the dark side is all about control and hierarchy and how the dark side masters or sorcerers were not as eveloved as those that may have achived Immortality by being in harmony and balance with the Force(Tao)

 

Actually..the star wars movie had so many similarities with Winn and Yudeloves debate it's not even funny.

 

Annikan makes a big deal when the council doesnt' recognize him as a "Master".

 

Yudelove got pissed at Winn(and me to in private email) when asked to not make such a big deal about the Master title. He was the Master and he wanted everyone to know it.

 

And qui gong..the character that has ahived Immortality(Obi Wans master) is all about being in balance with the force. He doesn't wish to have special power but gets it by being in balance..

 

I don't mean to imply I think Eric is totally evil I considered him a kind of teacher/friend when we used to communicate years ago and thing he weant through a kind of Darth Vader transition. Only thoughs that were around the HT board in those days(like 7 years ago) can really appreciate this but Eric went from a pretty cool guy..and helpful qigong teacher to a power obsessed dude..back to a pretty cool guy again.

 

I just thought of something sick if Lucas really wanted to cash in he could do a prequal to the prqual showing how Darth Siddius came to the dark side.

 

I mean..I don't see it happening Lucas is too tired now but that would probably be good for another couple movies.

 

Will the digression ever end?

[peter falk]

"The sith no longer exist!" the rest of the jedi suckers whine.

 

denying the existence of your enemy is different from denying the existence of evil itself. i could say that the nazis no longer exists (ok, so there are small pockets of neonazis, but not the nazis of hitler's reich). that doesn't mean i deny the existence of evil. it has other forms, including those within myself, that i need to be wary of. unfortunately, most people, including those in positions of power we call "leaders," have an aversion to recognizing this or to thinking like them in order to better protect citizens against evildoers. thus when evil is in their midst, they don't recognize it, and it runs roughshod over well-intended people.

 

perhaps the jedi had to be destroyed inorder to be reborn again. they'd become dogmatic and complacent. it happens to every group of spiritually oriented people if they fail to evolve as a group.

 

the darkside is equally stupid. they don't see how their selfishness interferes with their grand schemes and failure to make reliable alliances. this happened in real life during WWII, getting back t that theme. hitler declared war on the U.S., even though he was not obligated to due to any treaties with japan. he was hoping japan would return the favor by declaring war on russia. they never did.

[OpenSecret2012]

I just thought of something sick if Lucas really wanted to cash in he could do a prequal to the prqual showing how Darth Siddius came to the dark side.

 

I mean..I don't see it happening Lucas is too tired now but that would probably be good for another couple movies.

 

Will the digression ever end?

4129[/snapback]

 

HAHAHA!!!

I was thinking same thing!

Lucas could go on forever making movies and all the zombie fans would make every single one become a hit!!!

 

How Darth Plagus (the WISE! LOL!) trained Darth Siddious!

Yoda would be the only good guy still alive. (Maybe R2-D2 would still be around too.)

Yep yep I'd admit I'd go see it if Lucasboy made a prequel to the prequels!

It'd be a GOOD marketing selling point! The first time anyone's ever done that type of thing!

 

"Not a seque! Not a prequel! It's a pre-pre-quel!"

Hell, a new word would have to be INVENTED to describe it LOLOL!!!!!!!!!!

[Cameron]

He should keep making it until Dec 2012. Make the next two about Darth Plagus and how he got Darth Siddius to turn to the dark side.

 

Then he can REALLY make things interesting and have the CHRONICLES OF YODA. 3 Movies about Yoda's mysterious origin and how he became a Jedi knight and ultimately the head of the Jedi. He can even put Obi Wan's story and cover the story of Darth Tyrranus(The guy Vader axed his head off in Revenge of the Sith) into Yoda's story.

 

That's 6 or 7 years then in Summer 2012 come out with some sick shit about how the universe is going to end or change into a different frequency and a new order of Jedi arises to take all of the teachings of the Sith and Jedi to the next experience of life.

 

Then we can atleast have some good entertainment during the end times. And if the Mayans were all wrong and smoking to much weed or something while chopping peoples heads off as sacrifices to the Gods or aliens or whatever we can all have a good laugh and continue with our Capatilistic ways...

[Cameron]

My bad they ripped people hearts out while they were still alive and then tossed the body down the pyramid stairs...not the head...got to be as accurate as possible..you know..

[Lozen]

I think Aniken's problem was that he couldn't really love unselfishly. He wanted to do things for Padmay that she didn't agree with. He was so clingy and trying to hold on when he should have just let go. Otoh, Yoda was a bit too Buddhist for me. Somehow I don't feel that detaching from everything you love is the answer...