"Spirit" in the DDJ

[Daniel]

1 hour ago, Michael Sternbach said:

the existence of dragons

 

it's an archetype?  archetype being a middle option.  Not "spiritual", not "physical", spicy-psychology.

 

I saw on a video, that the chinese word for dragon is also a "queue" a "line", people lining up at the cash register. @ChiDragon can you confirm this?

 

It's strong will-full intention?

 

Edited September 29, 2023 by Daniel

[old3bob]

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Edited October 19, 2023 by old3bob

[ChiDragon]

4 hours ago, Michael Sternbach said:

I must say, I am a bit confused now. How do you reconcile those different views which seem to contradict each other? 🤔

I knew this was coming when the word spiritual was mentioned. Well，there is a difference between spirit and spiritual. Spiritual is something to inspire or encourage oneself is all in the mind. It has nothing to do with spirits.

Edited September 29, 2023 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

2 hours ago, Daniel said:

 

I saw on a video, that the chinese word for dragon is also a "queue" a "line", people lining up at the cash register. @ChiDragon can you confirm this?

Yes，people in a long line shaped like the long body of a dragon. Thus they called this long line as 人龍(people dragon). It is only a descriptive noun，it has noting to do with dragons.

[ChiDragon]

2 hours ago, old3bob said:

Tao standing still" but also "going far and returning" sounds like a contradiction but it is not to me,

Where does say Tao is standing still? Tao is always continuously cycling goes far and returning. It was stated in Chapter 25. I believe.

[old3bob]

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Edited October 19, 2023 by old3bob

[ChiDragon]

51 minutes ago, old3bob said:

 

well I may have got that wrong but it does say in chap 25 "standing alone without change" which in that case implies standing still.

My take also includes a moving so very fast that it is standing still everywhere at once.  not unlike like the effect of when synchronizing two moving things together they then seem to be standing still.

4. 獨立而不改
5. 周行而不殆

4. Independent and stable;
5. Continuously cycling but never exhausted;

I see where you were coming from. The compound character, 獨立, was mistranslated. The separated character each by itself means standing(立) alone(獨). However, it really means independent(獨立) when they compounded.

 

Edited September 29, 2023 by ChiDragon

[Daniel]

3 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

Spiritual is something to inspire

 

Bingo!

 

Quote

is all in the mind

 

Yahtzee!

 

"Spicy-Psychology"

 

Edited September 29, 2023 by Daniel

[old3bob]

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Edited October 19, 2023 by old3bob

[old3bob]

 

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Edited October 19, 2023 by old3bob

[Daniel]

4 hours ago, old3bob said:

Btw, would it really make a difference in the last post if the he's were changed to she's?

I hear human labels of father or mother for Spirit as being more for our nature and feelings to relate to than they are for the nature of Spirit itself which does not have those limits, anyone agree? 

 

The Self, capital "S", I think, but I could be wrong, is Saguna Brahman.  Which includes all qualities. 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saguna_brahman

 

That said: In the quote you posted:

 

He seems far away, but is ever near.
He is within all, and he transcends all....

 

"Distant", "transcendant", and "penetrates all" is typically masculine.

"Ever-near" ( aka proximal ) is typically feminine.

 

So, it's 3/4 masculine and 1/4 feminine stereotypes / inclinations.

 

Now looking at it in sequence to analyze the flow of what is written.

 

He seems far away ( masculine ), but is ever near ( feminine ).
He is within all ( masculine ), and he transcends all ( masculine )....

 

Masculine >>> Feminine >>> Masculine >>> Masculine

 

Seems like the author intended "HE" for this.

 

Edited September 30, 2023 by Daniel

[old3bob]

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Edited October 19, 2023 by old3bob

[Daniel]

3 minutes ago, old3bob said:

 

I'd say male or female connotations are only apparent and used for humans to relate too,   for instance a male Buddha took on female characteristic's for the benefit of those who wanted to relate in that way.  Many major teachings come from thousands of years ago in a world under male dominance which carried over to religions mostly founded by mankind.

 

Agreed.  The audience is human.  The intention is for the text to be relatable to humans.  And that's why the "masculine" would be communicating dominance "penetrating-all".

 

18 hours ago, old3bob said:

He is within all

 

That's penetration.  Masculine.  It's primal imagery and symbolism.  It's timeless. 

 

Perhaps, a person can ignore it, or move beyond these sorts of gender specific stereotypes?  ... Yes.  Definitely.  But was that the intention of the author / source?  I'm going by the english that was provided.  I think it's a fair analysis based on that.  Probing deeper, I think, would require knowledge of the original language and a trustworthy manuscript. 

[old3bob]

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Edited October 19, 2023 by old3bob

[old3bob]

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Edited October 19, 2023 by old3bob

[Daniel]

36 minutes ago, old3bob said:

"The Self, capital "S", I think, but I could be wrong, is Saguna Brahman.  Which includes all qualities." 

 

I've come across a lot of definitions like that, but to put it in  more basic terms there is a connection between the light and the source of light,  or if you will the soul and the Soul of the soul, which in Hinduism is normally given the name Self or Brahman.

 

 

OK.  According to this, Self is Nirguna Brahman, Brahman lacking all attributes in Advaita Vedanta ( radical non-duality ).  Other than that, it's debated.

 

http://www.mahavidya.ca/2015/03/04/nirguna-and-saguna-brahman/

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ātman_(Hinduism)

 

 

 

 

[ChiDragon]

On 9/29/2023 at 5:53 AM, Michael Sternbach said:

It would definitely be interesting to discuss the concept of chi based on its Chinese characters!

 

I am myself not too happy with equating it with 'energy.' At any rate, chi isn't energy in the way of light and other forms of energy understood in modern mainstream physics.

 

@Michael Sternbach  Thank you for your interest in the concept of Chi.

Based on reading more on the native literature, it seems that I am more knowledgeable about Chi now than before. I am happy to start a new thread to review my understanding with you. 

[Michael Sternbach]

On 29.9.2023 at 6:41 PM, ChiDragon said:

I knew this was coming when the word spiritual was mentioned. Well，there is a difference between spirit and spiritual. Spiritual is something to inspire or encourage oneself is all in the mind. It has nothing to do with spirits.

 

What made me bring up the question was you saying that you believe in the existence of dragons. So in your view, what are, or were, dragons if not some kind of spirits?

[ChiDragon]

37 minutes ago, Michael Sternbach said:

 

What made me bring up the question was you saying that you believe in the existence of dragons. So in your view, what are, or were, dragons if not some kind of spirits?

I was thinking about komodo dragons.