You and Wu in Chapter One

[Cobie]

1 hour ago, Taoist Texts said:

各异 … Huainanzi

That’s another author.

 

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Cobie

[Taoist Texts]

1 hour ago, whocoulditbe? said:

How could 各異 have been replaced with 異名? Is it down to visual similarity?

not only. them two basically mean the same thing

[Cobie]

8 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

… them two basically mean the same thing

So the whole thing is a red herring.

 

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Cobie

[ChiDragon]

1 hour ago, whocoulditbe? said:

How could 各異 have been replaced with 異名? Is it down to visual similarity?

各異: each is different

異名: differ in name

[Cobie]

 

On 23/09/2023 at 2:46 AM, Mig said:

… The editions by Heshang Gong and Wang Bi are popular and are used as a reference with all the commentaries from different scholars throughout ages. …

Provided it fits the characters, it’s imo ok to make a new interpretation.

 

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Cobie

[Cobie]

 

On 23/09/2023 at 8:51 PM, Taoist Texts said:

… 

故常无欲，以观其妙；the eternal desirelessness is the marvel

常有欲，以观其徼。 the eternal desirefullness is the fringe

此两者，同出而异名，these two together produce all differently named things

 …

(my highlight)

… what/who are “these two”? Are they “desirelessness” and “desirefullness”?

 

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Cobie

[Cobie]

 

On 23/09/2023 at 8:51 PM, Taoist Texts said:

… 常有欲，以观其徼。 the eternal desirefullness is the fringe …

(Just joking, it’s clear what you mean) What type of “fringe”? 

 

 

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by Cobie

[ChiDragon]

8 hours ago, Cobie said:

According to Sinologists “compounds” are rare in Classical Chinese.  

What about according to native speakers. What about 無为 and  有为?

 

Edited September 24, 2023 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

On 9/23/2023 at 6:07 PM, ChiDragon said:

The following chapters support Chapter 1 corresponds to 無 and 有.
Disregard in blue:
Chapter 2: 
6.有無相生
6. You(有) and Wu(無 )mutually produce each other.

Chapter 40
3. 天下萬物生於有，
4. 有生於無。
3. All things in the world came from 有(you).
4. 有(you)came from 無(wu).

It is getting interesting. How wrong could one be? I just rechecked my source. 

Correction:
In Chapter 2:
有and無 are not the same as in Chapter 1.  有means something that has already existed. 無is something that does not exist. Please disregard Chapter 2 as example.

[Taoist Texts]

10 hours ago, Cobie said:

 

(my highlight)

… what/who are “these two”? Are they “desirelessness” and “desirefullness”?

 

 

good guess. yes they are

[Cobie]

7 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

…. Correction:
In Chapter 2: ..

Thanks for the update. 

[Cobie]

 

On 23/09/2023 at 8:51 PM, Taoist Texts said:

… 故常无欲，以观其妙；the eternal desirelessness is the marvel

常有欲，以观其徼。 the eternal desirefullness is the fringe

此两者，同出而异名，these two together produce all differently named things. …

How do “desirelessness” and “desirefullness” “together produce all differently named things”?

 

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Cobie

[Cobie]

 

On 18/09/2023 at 10:35 PM, ChiDragon said:

… 道可道，非常道。… Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao. …

 

On 23/09/2023 at 8:51 PM, Taoist Texts said:

… 道可道，非常道。dao which can be spoken is not an eternal dao …

 

If this was so, there would be no point in reading the DDJ. So by inductive reasoning I conclude these are mistranslations.

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Cobie

[ChiDragon]

40 minutes ago, Cobie said:

If this was so, there would be no point in reading the DDJ. So by inductive reasoning I conclude these are mistranslations.

 

You are only looking at one star in the universe. Without reading the whole book is like the blinds touching one part of the elephant and coming to a conclusion. I am sure you have heard of the idiom: 坐井觀天 or 井底之蛙

PS
Don't you think it is kind of naive for Laotze to write a book with five thousand characters for nothing?  Again, the "five-year-old child" phrase still stands. Peace.

Edited September 25, 2023 by ChiDragon

[Cobie]

 

29 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

Don't you think it is kind of naive for Laotze to write a book with five thousand characters for nothing? 

Exactly. That’s why I wrote:

 

1 hour ago, Cobie said:

So by inductive reasoning I conclude these are mistranslations.

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Cobie

[ChiDragon]

 坐井觀天 and  井底之蛙

Now, you may rest without spending any more time looking into the TTC.
 

Edited September 25, 2023 by ChiDragon

[Cobie]

.

Edited September 28, 2023 by Cobie

[ChiDragon]

2 minutes ago, Cobie said:

Wat je zegt dat ben jezelf

同感! 同感! 

Edited September 25, 2023 by ChiDragon

[Cobie]

MWD A : 道可道也，非恆道也 

 

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Cobie

[Cobie]

也 was used as a grammatical particle in the time of Laozi. It changes the meaning of the sentence. See Kroll.

[ChiDragon]

6 minutes ago, Cobie said:

也 was used as a grammatical particle in the time of Laozi. It changes the meaning of the sentence. See Kroll.

I believe that 老子註譯及評介 is more reliable. Period.

[Cobie]

okidoki 

[ChiDragon]

1 hour ago, Cobie said:

也 was used as a grammatical particle in the time of Laozi. It changes the meaning of the sentence. See Kroll.

It enhances the tone of the meaning but definitely does not change the meaning of the sentence. 

[Cobie]

 

1 hour ago, Cobie said:

… See Kroll.

 

59 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

I believe that 老子註譯及評介 is more reliable. Period.

 

48 minutes ago, Cobie said:

okidoki 

Period.

 

 

Edited September 25, 2023 by Cobie

[Taoist Texts]

11 hours ago, Cobie said:

How do “desirelessness” and “desirefullness” “together produce all differently named things”?

like this