Use cannabis to build Chi

[Sahaja]

On 10/5/2023 at 1:20 AM, diggorydogood said:

 

Not just that - it does cause a major block to the lungs which does heavily affect qi cultivation. It enlivens shen but at the cost of imbalance which will invariably lead to deviation (and over time a lot worse).

 

I think if a person wants to still do it then it’s their choice. But it isn’t for cultivation as it causes deviation almost immediately.

What specific deviations? What specifically is the “invariably…a lot worse overtime”? While overeating, introversion, impact on sleep  and coughing seem like  possible outcomes, am curious about what these other effects are specifically. 

[ChimpSage]

On 9/29/2023 at 2:14 AM, silent thunder said:

@roamthevoid  It's your path in this life.  Only you can walk it.

 

In my experience, there's one source from which all arises and to which, all returns.   Due too this, I tend toward a fearlessness in exploration of consciousness and energetic exchange.

 

The use of elixirs, pills and a wide variety of intense and sometimes deadly substances is well documented in myriad sects of classical and modern daoism and many other traditions.  The list is nigh on endless.  Entheogenic use is foundational in shamanic processes across all traditions among the origins of our kind for a reason.  So I don't put much stock in the fundamentalist conservative bend of recent times and the over simplification in villifying all plants (or coffee, chocolate and rice).  We have cannibanoid receptors in our brains, this is a fact.  Myriad substances affect and have effect on our awareness.  Nature does not waste anything.  We are in constant relationship with our environment.

 

Yet this does not imply all things are beneficial at all stages in our process.  Only you'll be able to distinguish the effects on your mind and body, but you can benefit greatly from a teacher in an established lineage with a history of prior exploration. 

 

Stranger's opinions on the internet carry no value with me and rigid 'one way' thinking is always an enormous red flag.   Folks who claim one way with absolute certainty are usually selling something, even if it's not monetary but in propping up their authority ego.

 

Far more important to me than the effect of cannabis on my meditations would be access to a lineage and a teacher in whom I could trust.

 

If it were me and I didn't have an in person teacher or much experience, I'd not put much stock in the opinions of folks who habituate online forums (yea this includes me)... I'd keep things very simple and direct my energy toward finding a teacher and then let the questions flow.  In the absence of a teacher, explore as you can and reject whatever does not bring benefit.

 

At the origin of every established lineage, was a human being, exploring his or her own consciousness.  This is our primary birthright and no one can tell you with impunity what can work for you.

 

100% agree.

 

All drugs are medicine in their correct dosages.

 

A skillful alchemist knows the difference between poison and medicine.

 

To remove medicine from the toolkit entirely is a waste imo.

 

Finding methods from a proven lineage is most important. Ask the teacher. 
 

All good internal methods can be done without the use of any external chemicals, however that does not mean that they do not have a purpose.

 

I practice Neidan. People will tell you that taking entheogens is a false path that leads nowhere. It’s not true. They can help.

 

I’ve taken 5 MEO malt for awakening experiences and it actually benefited my practice. So open mindedness is most important when it comes to these things. Depletes Yuan Qi but helps in other ways. And if you can replenish it what does it matter. You just take it smartly in the correct way at the correct time.

 

People will tell you all sorts of things about drugs thinking that they know their effects 100%, but unless you know it all yourself you can’t close your mind to other possibilities. 

Edited December 29, 2023 by ChimpSage

[Klinsly]

On 12/28/2023 at 4:00 AM, senseless virtue said:

 

Pretty good explanation as far as your own observations go, but you may be too inexperienced with meditation to really understand how recreational drugs affect the nervous system. It universally leads to worse results.

 

Since you practice Flying Phoenix Qigong, I have quoted Sifu Terry Dunn on the topic:

 

 

Take care.

Thanks for the response. I might have been a bit much on my commentary about dogma but I deal with a lot of it on religious side so it can be ant easy straw man for me to create. But it also becomes very easy to identify in all aspects of life. I'll fully admit im inexperienced with meditation only 6 years or so after 10 of religion and theology even college level.

 

Though  it's interesting I listened to Damo Mitchels podcast earlier and he's who I originally started with in qigong/neigong. But he mentioned meditation being good for discerning truth and seeing through falsehood and this is something that I do well at though I may be lacking the deep mystical experiences of many here. Not related to this topic particularly, but it seems to be working though I still have a long way to go.

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

5 hours ago, Klinsly said:

Though  it's interesting I listened to Damo Mitchels podcast earlier and he's who I originally started with in qigong/neigong. But he mentioned meditation being good for discerning truth and seeing through falsehood and this is something that I do well at though I may be lacking the deep mystical experiences of many here. Not related to this topic particularly, but it seems to be working though I still have a long way to go.

It’s not just being about to see what’s true or not. You start to physically feel what is good for you and what is bad when you consume things. 

[senseless virtue]

5 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

It’s not just being about to see what’s true or not. You start to physically feel what is good for you and what is bad when you consume things. 

 

In fact the entire pursuit of spirituality is one extensive learning for to be able to spontaneously separate good and bad.

Edited December 30, 2023 by senseless virtue

[Master Logray]

The question of this post is to build Chi, not advancing spiritual practice, or having religious experience.  As far as Chi is concerned, it is no.   Don't forget inner alchemy comes from alchemy, which was a great experimenter of different combination of minerals, plants and animal parts.  It only kills Chi. 

[ChimpSage]

5 minutes ago, Master Logray said:

The question of this post is to build Chi, not advancing spiritual practice, or having religious experience.  As far as Chi is concerned, it is no.   Don't forget inner alchemy comes from alchemy, which was a great experimenter of different combination of minerals, plants and animal parts.  It only kills Chi. 

Correct. Cannabis does not build Qi. Based on my understanding the conversion of Jing, Qi, and Shen is just increased. Same with psychedelics.

 

So, they use up Yuan Qi actually. 
 

Sometimes the benefit can be worth the detriment though  

[senseless virtue]

42 minutes ago, Master Logray said:

The question of this post is to build Chi, not advancing spiritual practice

 

I think it's highly ignorant to separate these two.

 

Building qi always takes correct discipline, and to really master discipline you need to be able to discern well between what is harmful and what is helpful.

[ChiDragon]

I believe that the external alchemy was discontinued long time ago. Internal alchemy is in effective by the tu na breathing method without any external means. Why should we still wasting our time to pursuit the external alchemy.

[silent thunder]

17 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

I believe that the external alchemy was discontinued long time ago. Internal alchemy is in effective by the tu na breathing method without any external means. Why should we still wasting our time to pursuit the external alchemy.

Really?

 

You realize every time you eat food, take medicine, or breath inyou engage in a form of 'external alchemy' right?

[ChiDragon]

23 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

Really?

 

You realize every time you eat food, take medicine, or breath inyou engage in a form of 'external alchemy' right?

I think if you follow the definition of external alchemy it would be saying something else. The subject has been gone over and over. Everybody should know, by now, what is the difference between "external" and "internal" alchemy.

Edited December 31, 2023 by ChiDragon

[Cobie]

1 hour ago, ChiDragon said:

… if you follow the definition of external alchemy it would be saying something else …

Exactly. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waidan 

[silent thunder]

Fundamentalism is a mental deficiency.

Edited December 31, 2023 by silent thunder

[Klinsly]

19 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

It’s not just being about to see what’s true or not. You start to physically feel what is good for you and what is bad when you consume things. 

Certainly! I'm aware its not the best but I'm just a human making my way along the path. I'll get there eventually and I'm learning as I go. At the moment it helps and Hinders me I'm incredibly aware of how each happens. So I don't reccomend it to people. Without I never would have gone as far as I've have in the past 5 years or so and coulda been stuck in protestant mainstream  Christianity rather than going to the very deep side of the occult using that foundation to skip all the bs, by following my curiosity but I also have backed off from the Chinese alchemical side and I see that as a place it could be a huge hindrance.. but who knows really?  I do qigong now mainly for the health benefits and to advance spiritually.

 

Man now I feel bad for revinig this post. What senseless virtue posted was What I was searching for i just forgot the old timey word of calling if pot lol.

Edited December 31, 2023 by Klinsly

[Master Logray]

23 hours ago, senseless virtue said:

 

I think it's highly ignorant to separate these two.

 

Building qi always takes correct discipline, and to really master discipline you need to be able to discern well between what is harmful and what is helpful.

 

Ignorant, perhaps.   Yet you can do without spiritual practice and yet build up Chi.  There are a lot of methods available.  It is just how good and efficient they are and whether you can afford the costs.

 

As to discern harmful/helpfulness, I would say a certain risk always exist. 

 

[senseless virtue]

23 minutes ago, Master Logray said:

Yet you can do without spiritual practice and yet build up Chi.  There are a lot of methods available.  It is just how good and efficient they are and whether you can afford the costs.

 

As to discern harmful/helpfulness, I would say a certain risk always exist. 

 

Spiritual discipline prevents loss and harm. This is its singular purpose. Without this foundation all "practice" is wishful hobbyist theory and all likely risks become realized in one form or another.

 

That's why you don't see Michael Winn or Mantak Chia students becoming flying mahasiddhas even if they gathered all the energy and even if they practiced all the forms correctly. Freedom from error is the highest guarantee for success as far as internal training goes.

[Master Logray]

2 hours ago, senseless virtue said:

 

Spiritual discipline prevents loss and harm. This is its singular purpose. Without this foundation all "practice" is wishful hobbyist theory and all likely risks become realized in one form or another.

 

That's why you don't see Michael Winn or Mantak Chia students becoming flying mahasiddhas even if they gathered all the energy and even if they practiced all the forms correctly. Freedom from error is the highest guarantee for success as far as internal training goes.

 

 

These days no one regards Taoist cultivation as spiritual (in the western sense).   People practise it for delay becoming a spirit.

 

 

[senseless virtue]

1 minute ago, Master Logray said:

These days no one regards Taoist cultivation as spiritual (in the western sense).   People practise it for delay becoming a spirit.

 

That is a technically correct answer and a very thoughtful one.

[f-man]

g

Edited January 10 by f-man

[diggorydogood]

On 12/28/2023 at 4:11 PM, Sahaja said:

What specific deviations? What specifically is the “invariably…a lot worse overtime”? While overeating, introversion, impact on sleep  and coughing seem like  possible outcomes, am curious about what these other effects are specifically. 

Deviation related to lung channel. Which are extremely important 

[blue eyed snake]

On 29-9-2023 at 10:13 PM, Daniel said:

Just FYI, this is very-very rare in America.  Most people vape now.  Some people are still smoking "flower", but it is almost never mixed with tobacco.  Vaping is cheap, much easier to be discrete, and is considered safe, and it's true that it's a lot better in regard to particulates in the lungs.  However, it is always missing the full compliment of psychoactive compounds.  The manufacture strips out everything but the THC.  Terpenes may be added back, but they're for flavor.  The other naturally occuring compounds are considered waste.  The plant as it has evolved naturally is not in any way being consumed.  It is being commercially processed and then marketed.

 

And then there's a whole discussion that can be had about the strains which are being cultivated.  They're factory farmed.  Dialed in for maximum THC output because that's what sells. The naturally occuring hybrid is a thing of the past.  It's either Sativa or Indica, usually because that's what the consumers want and they're easier to market.

 

This is a different world, far away from the yellow river.  This is not LaoTzu's weed.

 

Glad I lived during a time were we  smoked real plantstuff, made tea of it and baked it in a cake. 't was nice to grow too.

 

 

[Jadespear]

On 9/28/2023 at 10:49 PM, roamthevoid said:

When I take cannabis and do Dan Tian meditation, I can feel a large area of fluid energy bobbing around in my body. It’s hard to control but if I try hard I can control it and compress it into a much smaller area into the Dan Tian. 
 

But I was afraid if I held it in its compressed state it could overpower my meridians and explode therefore cause damage, so I quickly relinquished control of it. 
 

Side topic - my body was also shaking and it felt like I was in 2nd Jhana (strong Piti (rapture) and Sukha (bliss)) but if I tune my mind I could drop the Piti and (seemingly) enter 3rd Jhana (without Piti but Sukha remains). 
 

I seemed to also be able to enter the 4th Jhana (Sukha dropped, equanimity is developed) by further refining my mental state but tbh I’m afraid of 4th Jhana because I don’t want to alter reality or my life by accident. (You can change reality in 4th Jhana) 
 

(Could totally be my delusion on the Jhana part, granted) 

 

So my question is, has anyone heard of, or even had experience of, using cannabis to build Dan Tian container or gather Chi to Dan Tian? 
 

 

 

 

 

...don't know if this applies at all to Dan Tien meditation - but, when I take cannabis and retain stillness to some degree - I tend to alter electronic frequencies with my mind and emotion...  It's actually kind of annoying.  I de-energized an entire concert venue once due to being polarized in yin.  I would not suggest or recommend using any physical aids at all to meditation, even so called natural ones... herbs, etc.  

...Remain in the childlike awareness (Pure and Still) with the physical state of oneself as a child was - innocent and naturally healthy.  To remain in good health, one need only follow the balance recommended by the Tao of daily food intake - a blend of the 5 tastes in equal proportions (Sweet/Salty/Spicy/Sour/Bitter) - combined with proper Ph balance of acid- alkaline (yin-yang) 50/50.  

[Tommy]

Too long, did not want to read all the posts.

Drugs? Some are good and some are bad. Some are both good and bad. In the beginning, it may help to experience something else. Slowly it doesn't help and becomes an addiction. The old joke, I am not addicted to pot. I can quit anytime. Addiction, proof is one still smokes it. Addiction can be subtle or an all out blood sweat and tears fight to get off it.

 

Ram Dass used drugs to alter his conscious awareness. This allowed him to experience a different conscious mind or perception. That allowed him to move forward, knowing that there is something else. But, his teacher warned him that it will be come a hindrance if taken too long. It is likened to the story of the hermit, he goes into seclusion and practices. His mind becomes quiet. But when he goes into the city, his concentration is lost. So, the question becomes, what good is your practice if it must be only certain conditions?

Edited April 10 by Tommy

[Neirong]

Psychedelics and some legalized drugs change your internal state via biochemistry.
Conversely, meditation involves directly changing one's internal state, thus causing biochemical changes in the body.

Drugs are worthless in cultivation.
It is similar to taking a hammer, hitting yourself in the head, and then claiming to achieve a "trance," "samadhi," or "advanced" state of meditation.

 

While some people claim there are many benefits, like reducing stress, tension, and sporadic thoughts, many people take it as a medical prescription for certain ailments. This is only partly true.
You have to realize that a multi-billion dollar business is behind this, with strong lobby funding and "positive" research.
I am pretty sure cannabis is doing some permanent damage to the human brain if you take it consistently over a period of time.

 

Now back to the change of the state of mind, "helping in meditation", or any other spiritual claim of cannabis (THC), Ayahuasca and just about any other psychedelic.
They are not even 1/1000 as potent as you can get through proper training and cultivation. If only people would train properly instead of searching for cheat codes and faster/easier ways to progress.

 

Human potential is far beyond that. But how would you know it if your Guru smokes cigars, drinks whiskey, sits with murky eyes and a massive pot belly, endlessly talking nonsense about spiritual cultivaiton?

Edited April 10 by Neirong

[Jadespear]

7 hours ago, Neirong said:

Psychedelics and some legalized drugs change your internal state via biochemistry.
Conversely, meditation involves directly changing one's internal state, thus causing biochemical changes in the body.

Drugs are worthless in cultivation.
It is similar to taking a hammer, hitting yourself in the head, and then claiming to achieve a "trance," "samadhi," or "advanced" state of meditation.

 

While some people claim there are many benefits, like reducing stress, tension, and sporadic thoughts, many people take it as a medical prescription for certain ailments. This is only partly true.
You have to realize that a multi-billion dollar business is behind this, with strong lobby funding and "positive" research.
I am pretty sure cannabis is doing some permanent damage to the human brain if you take it consistently over a period of time.

 

Now back to the change of the state of mind, "helping in meditation", or any other spiritual claim of cannabis (THC), Ayahuasca and just about any other psychedelic.
They are not even 1/1000 as potent as you can get through proper training and cultivation. If only people would train properly instead of searching for cheat codes and faster/easier ways to progress.

 

Human potential is far beyond that. But how would you know it if your Guru smokes cigars, drinks whiskey, sits with murky eyes and a massive pot belly, endlessly talking nonsense about spiritual cultivaiton?

 

 

I second that my friend.