What is Chi (炁 and 氣)?

[ChiDragon]

@Michael Sternbach

The definition and chi:
炁(chi): According to the ancient, it is a prenatal microscopic substance in the universe.  It is a basic unit that makes up the human body.
氣(chi): According to the ancient, it is a postnatal microscopic substance that is defined as the functional activities of the human organs. It was, also, used to describe the vital force of human life.

炁 This character consists of two radicals of 旡(none)  and 火(fire). That means this chi has not been touched by fire. It is the basic unit for the structure of the human body. It was, also, considered as prenatal chi that comes with birth.

氣 This character consists of two radicals of 气(air) and 米(rice). It is a combinational substance of the air we breathe and the rice we eat.  It is the external source required by humans to sustain life. It was, also, considered postnatal chi.

 

Edited October 2, 2023 by ChiDragon

[Michael Sternbach]

@ChiDragon

Let me summarise:

 

• Chi (whether prenatal or postnatal) is a microscopic substance, therefore it should consist of some kind of minute particles--not unlike the particles studied by physicists, although not necessarily the same.
• It is a basic unit that makes up the human body. This, too, suggests some kind of particle. According to physics, matter is made of particles--but again, note that they may not be the same kind of particle, since physics talks about physical matter, whereas chi is a more subtle kind of matter which in turn becomes the foundation of physical substance in my understanding. 
• It exists in the universe, so it is not bound to a (human) body. It is also found in the air we breathe and in the food we eat ("rice"), and then becomes postnatal chi as it is processed by our organism.

 

Alright?

 

 

 

Edited October 2, 2023 by Michael Sternbach

[ChiDragon]

Yes, Michael. 
Thanks for pointing that out. You are correct. I think the term 物質(substance) was used very loosely in the Chinese literature. I think 物質 should be translated as a kind of microscopic material.
 

6 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

炁(chi): According to the ancient, it is a prenatal microscopic substance in the universe.  It is a basic unit that makes up the human body.

I have to rephrase the term to make it within context:
炁(chi): According to the ancient, it is a kind of microscopic material inside the human body.  It is a basic unit that makes up the structure of the human body. It would be in the fetus, inside the womb, to begin with. Thus it would be considered as prenatal. The ancients did not know that the body cell as ever existed. However, in modern science, it is analogous to the body cell.

PS
I will update the OP after we get this ironed out with our brainstorm. Thanks!

Edited October 2, 2023 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

13 hours ago, Michael Sternbach said:

@ChiDragon

Let me summarise:

 

• Chi (whether prenatal or postnatal) is a microscopic substance, therefore it should consist of some kind of minute particles--not unlike the particles studied by physicists, although not necessarily the same.
• It is a basic unit that makes up the human body. This, too, suggests some kind of particle. According to physics, matter is made of particles--but again, note that they may not be the same kind of particle, since physics talks about physical matter, whereas chi is a more subtle kind of matter which in turn becomes the foundation of physical substance in my understanding. 
• It exists in the universe, so it is not bound to a (human) body. It is also found in the air we breathe and in the food we eat ("rice"), and then becomes postnatal chi as it is processed by our organism.

 

Alright?

 

Alright. I did not get it right the first time. I told you that you had opened a can of worms. Let's try it again.

炁(chi): According to ancient Chinese thought, it is a microscopic substance constituting the universe.  This point of view greatly influenced the theory of TCM. Generally speaking,  this character in TCM denotes both the essential substances of the human body which maintain its vital activities, and the functional activities. The essential substances have been in the body already even before birth. Thus it was considered as the prenanal chi.

氣 This character consists of two radicals of 气(air) and 米(rice). It is a combinational substance of the air we breathe and the rice we eat.  It is the external source required by humans to sustain life. It was, also, considered postnatal chi.

Does this sound OK to you?
 

Edited October 2, 2023 by ChiDragon
Changed "at birth" to "before birth"

[old3bob]

on a tangent, there is astral matter/energy in thought forms that have an impact on living beings...

 

[ChiDragon]

29 minutes ago, old3bob said:

on a tangent, there is astral matter/energy in thought forms that have an impact on living beings...

 

Would that be solar energy and oxygen?

[Daniel]

21 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

氣(chi): According to the ancient, it is a postnatal microscopic substance that is defined as the functional activities of the human organs. It was, also, used to describe the vital force of human life.

 

Laotze has it in 3 chapters of the DDJ:  10, 42, and 55.  Translation assistance here would be greatly appreciated.

[ChiDragon]

4 minutes ago, Daniel said:

 

Laotze has it in 3 chapters of the DDJ:  10, 42, and 55.  Translation assistance here would be greatly appreciated.

Chapter 10
1. 載營魄抱一
2. 能無離乎﹖
3. 專氣致柔，
4. 能如嬰兒乎﹖
5. 滌除玄鑒，
6. 能無疵乎﹖
7. 愛國治民，
8. 能無為乎﹖
9. 天門開闔，
10.能為雌乎﹖
11.明白四達，
12.能無知乎。

1. Soul and body embraced as one,
2. Is it possible to separate them?
3. Concentrated "chi" to extreme softness,
4. Isn't it like an infant?
5. Cleansing the deep reflector,
6. How could it have any flaw?
7. Patriotic and ruling the people,
8. Can it not rule with benevolence?
9. Opening and closing the heavenly gate,
10. Can it not reach a state of stillness?
11. Reaching out the four directions,
12. Can it be nothing known? 

 

[ChiDragon]

Chapter 42
1.道生一。
2.一生二。
3.二生三。
4.三生萬物。
5.萬物負陰而抱陽，
6.沖氣以為和。

Translation
1. Tao engenders One;
2. One engenders Two;
3. Two engender Three;
4. Three engenders all things.
5. All things with Yin on the back and Yang in the front.
6. Blend the two primordial essences and become homogeneous. 

[ChiDragon]

Chapter 55
1.含德之厚,
2.比於赤子。
3.毒蟲不螫，
4.猛獸不據，
5.攫鳥不摶。
6.骨弱筋柔而握固。
7.未知牝牡之合而全作，
8.精之至也。
9.終日號而不嗄，
10.和之至也。
11.知和曰常。
12.知常曰明。
13.益生曰祥。
14.心使氣曰強。
15.物壯則老。
16.謂之不道，
17.不道早已。

1. To encompass the deep virtue of Tao,
2. Is comparable to a newborn infant.
3. Not stung by poisonous insects,
4. Not clawed by wild animals,
5. Not grabbed by big birds,
6. Weak bones and soft muscles but with tight fists,
7. Not knowing the copulation of male and female but self erected.
8. Because of the tremendous energy,
9. The infant cries all day and the voice doesn't become hoarse,
10. It was a sign of harmony.
11. Knowing it's in harmony was said to be in the normal development.
12. Knowing its normal development was said to be profound.
13. Craving to cling onto life was said to be inauspicious.
14. Wishing to force harmony upon someone was said to be an act of bravado.
15. The things that are too strong will become senescent;
16. It was said to be not in accord with Tao.
17. Those who are not in accord with Tao will perish prematurely.

[old3bob]

2 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

Would that be solar energy and oxygen?

 

astral relates a lot to  emotional energies, which can go into and be thought/feeling forms projected out...the world of mankind has mega tons of that goin on.

Edited October 3, 2023 by old3bob

[Daniel]

5 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

14.心使氣曰強。

Wishing to force harmony upon someone was said to be an act of bravado.

 

Which words are coming from 氣?

 

5 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

1. Soul and body embraced as one,
2. Is it possible to separate them?
3. Concentrated "chi" to extreme softness,

 

Are soul and body being compared to concentrated "chi" and extreme softness?

[Dedicated]

Ki, otherwise expressed as Chi

[ChiDragon]

2 hours ago, Daniel said:

2 hours ago, Daniel said:

14.心使氣曰強。

Wishing to force harmony upon someone was said to be an act of bravado.
 

Which words are coming from 氣?

 

 

This 氣 is 和氣 (harmony)
If one intends to force someone to be harmonious, then, that is an act of bravado.
 

2 hours ago, Daniel said:

1. Soul and body embraced as one,
2. Is it possible to separate them?

3. 專氣致柔，
4. 能如嬰兒乎
3. Concentrated "chi" to extreme softness,
4. Isn't it like an infant?

Are soul and body being compared to concentrated "chi" and extreme softness?
 

 

Lines 1 and 2 go together to be within context. 
Lines 3 and 4 go together to be within context also.
Concentrated chi to extreme softness is compared with the infant. The implication was that the breathing was calm and soft, then, the mood would be very peaceful like an infant.
 

 

Edited October 3, 2023 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

11 hours ago, Dedicated said:

Ki, otherwise expressed as Chi

I believe Ki is a Japanese pronunciation, and Chi is a Chinese pronunciation.

 

PS

For example:

Aikido, 合气道,

a Japanese martial arts.

Edited October 3, 2023 by ChiDragon

[Dedicated]

Thanks Chi Dragon, please disregard my previous comment of the Japanese pronunciation. Are you in your original post, wondering why there is a definition of chi prenatal and postnatal seperate. Could it have something to do with the Daoist term of the Immortal Fetus?

[dawei]

Chi, when felt like electricity. it can be directed... but So how to distinguish that from a pinched nerve in the neck that sends electricity? You cannot direct that due to a nerve issue.. So your control over it will explain  it. 

[ChiDragon]

7 hours ago, Dedicated said:

Thanks Chi Dragon, please disregard my previous comment of the Japanese pronunciation. Are you in your original post, wondering why there is a definition of chi prenatal and postnatal seperate. Could it have something to do with the Daoist term of the Immortal Fetus?

You welcome!
No, there is no such thing as an Immortal Fetus in Daoist terms.

TCM defines prenatal chi as the vital substance that is passed on to the fetus by the parents before birth. This vital substance remains in the body for survival after birth. The prenatal chi is what makes up the structure of the human body. However, the prenatal chi in the body must be maintained to recycle to keep the body active. They require nourishment from external sources such as eating grains and breathing the air(oxygen). The external sources that are going into the body are known as the postnatal chi.

Edited October 6, 2023 by ChiDragon

[Dedicated]

On 06/10/2023 at 3:01 PM, ChiDragon said:

You welcome!
No, there is no such thing as an Immortal Fetus in Daoist terms.

 

"In a small pot (either the lower, middle, or upper Tan Tien) we can cook all the mountains and rivers forces (natural forces), stars, moon, and sun forces (universal forces) and the primordial forces (cosmic particles) and combine them within ourselves to transform them into the higher force to form the IMMORTAL FETUS."

 

It's the last sentence of explanation of inner Alchemy.

 

https://www.mantakchia.com/explanation-of-the-inner-alchemy-chart/

 

https://images.app.goo.gl/B2x8GZ9ij6J23zXJ6

[ChiDragon]

16 minutes ago, Dedicated said:

IMMORTAL FETUS."

It is only an one man fairy tale. It is full of fiction. I have never found this term in any Chinese literature. I won't comment on the book that you have great interest in. Peace!

[Dedicated]

My mistake 

Edited October 8, 2023 by Dedicated

[Dedicated]

I realise now through reading in an other post that people have not been impressed by Chia. I only read this one thing from him recently. Boy it's hard discerning what is helpful and what is distracting. Forgetting Chia, what I have learnt so far about inner Alchemy includes for a short period of time we abstain from some indulgences to allow for subtlety. 

Edited October 8, 2023 by Dedicated

[ChiDragon]

20 hours ago, Dedicated said:

inner Alchemy

It is just a fancy Taoist name for Qigong. You may go with any method of Qigong will do. Just stay with it.

 

Use this as your guideline to look for a method:

https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/55078-modern-definition-of-chi-kung-氣功/

Edited October 9, 2023 by ChiDragon

[Dedicated]

Haha, thanks Chi Dragon, you read my mind. I was just looking for something like that. I want to slowly learn and build because this is a learning to be refined for the rest of my life I believe 

[ChiDragon]

17 hours ago, Dedicated said:

Haha, thanks Chi Dragon, you read my mind. I was just looking for something like that. I want to slowly learn and build because this is a learning to be refined for the rest of my life I believe 

You welcome! One must be aware of what is going on in the environment. One who Knows oneself will know others(知己知彼). Understanding people is part of the Cultivation of the mind.