The concept of God

[Nungali]

14 hours ago, Partez said:

I think it's almost impossible to figure it out.  For all we know, we are actually an advanced form of AI, that's created the current "reality" as a means to stop itself from going insane and committing suicide.

 

Hang on,    this  current reality  is supposed to STOP me going insane and committing suicide  ?

 

Ummmmm ....  someone better ring the manufacturer .

 

 

 

14 hours ago, Partez said:

 

We are all on the road to the final realization what we actually are, and once the collective truth becomes too much to bare, the "universe" will be destroyed and the cycle will start all over again.

 

On a side note, I've recently got medicinal cannabis prescribed.

 

What did that cost you  (  for the process and then how much is the prescription )  ?

 

14 hours ago, Partez said:

 

(I'm in Aus, so it's still illegal here)

 

What part ?    I am in 'Gondwana country' ,   on the east side  .... Mid- north Coast .

[Nungali]

10 hours ago, Cobie said:

By whom? Why?
 

 

 

 

Dr Freak

 

Spoiler

Doctor Freak was a soldier who embraced the hippie movement but went far on the experimentation with hallucinogens. He created a super-strong version of LSD called DSC 2000 and bathes in a pool of the blood of people who've used DSC 2000.

....

but he was stopped by Batman

 

 

[Nungali]

9 hours ago, NaturaNaturans said:

I have read a few of those and like it. But there are a lot of texts, anyone In particular you like/would recommend?

 

The ones that related to your original question  - I will have to go back and see

 

.......

 

Ah , I may nave done a misread , originally I responded to this ;

 

" One thing i find interresting in the old testament (and book of Enok), is the mention of nephilim, watchers, arch angels, council of the gods, use of both Lord, Yahwe, el and elohim (el means god, elhoim is plural).  "

 

After our discussion on 'council of the Gods' I was focusing on the bolded bit and not the actual crux of your question ....    I could focus on the  'plural question'  and also give you an hermetic analysis of some other names of God as they are attributed on the Tree of Life  .... but a certain person  'protesteth too much ', so I will leave that .  

 

In any case ,  I see some of the 'entities' as described in the Urantia Book  similar ( although much more detailed and complex ) to some of the above titles .   As in  Chapters

5 ... 436  - 4 ...... 444

 

 

 

9 hours ago, NaturaNaturans said:

 

hmm.. the result is debatable. 

 

Indeed !  

 

Maybe its to stop us dying of boredom ?

 

 

9 hours ago, NaturaNaturans said:

 

Mhm, I can agree. And that again is almost synonymous with nature, unless we subscribe to the banal view that humans are separate from it. In one way the word God is almost by definition unfathomable. But we could think about it as the union of sky-father and mother earth, and us as their offspring. 

 

You still seem to have your feet on the ground ?   I say that as when I say 'Universe and its energies ', thats a LOT more than  planet Earth and its  sky father and earth mother ( or the reverse as it is in some cultures )  or the 'consciousness of Gaia'  we see as   ' Mother Nature '  .   And I dont see the 'expansive  view point ' in any way separating humans from the rest of the Universe .

 

As I said before , personally , I dont worry about the 'Ultimate '   as I do see the 'unfathomableness'  of it all . I am busy enough with the 'local'   ones . I dont feel my focus has to be Universal .... at this stage .

 

 

 

9 hours ago, NaturaNaturans said:

 

Gen 8-38:40 

Then Judah said to Onan, “Go in to your brother’s wife,

 

 

I am sure Daniel would not want my interpretation on that one ! 

 

 

 

9 hours ago, NaturaNaturans said:

and perform your duty as a brother-in-law to her, and raise up offspring for your brother.”

Onan knew that the offspring would not be his; so when he went in to his brother’s wife, he wasted his seed on the ground in order not to give offspring to his brother.

 

Well, that one interpretation  ...... another is from the  ' New Vision Old Testament ' , its a new look at what it all meant according to some ancient scrolls found in a cave ....

 

Spoiler

 And Judah said ; 'Stop jacking off all over the tent floor ..... its messy and disgusting !  Cant you do it in  ram's skin or something ? "   ....  and the sight of that was displeasing to the Lord  .

 

9 hours ago, NaturaNaturans said:

But what he did was displeasing in the sight of the Lord; so He took his life also.

 

Wow !    Thats one heavy dose of  .....

 

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/952635/

[Sir Darius the Clairvoyent]

@Nungali

If i have my feet on the ground? Kind of, kind of not. I am a lot more open, but struggeling making sense of reality with out my old framework. And if i try to comprehend it all, it becomes overwhelming.

 

Feet on the ground, eyes to the skies, warm heart, cold mind

[Partez]

2 hours ago, Nungali said:

What did that cost you  (  for the process and then how much is the prescription

 

Have my referral link, I'll get $15 😄

 

https://app.dispensed.com.au?for=arthur90

 

The process was super easy and free.  It's so easy now, I think legalization is around the corner and we can all really tune in to God (See, still on topic)

 

The cost is basically street prices, and quality is good, you can get the oil tho which is around $150 for 30ml.  It's really good.

[Cobie]

 

3 hours ago, Nungali said:

Hang on,    this  current reality  is supposed to STOP me going insane and committing suicide  ?

Ummmmm ....  someone better ring the manufacturer .

 Nungali not that happy after all. 

 

[Unota]

Maybe the 'divinity in nature' would be most accurate for me. Nature is what is most visible. It is something I can see, hear, and touch. With a single action, I can change the makeup of the soil. With what I plant, even a few square feet can alter my entire local ecosystem by providing the food source for a specific species of insects, which in turn feeds a specific population of birds. It controls everything, and yet it's so easily malleable and responsive. The soil is alive with an incomprehensible amount of tiny microbes that digest organic matter in a form that can be processed by plants, just like the microbes in our gut do the same for us. Everything that I touch is alive. And I don't even need something amazing or magic to change it, because I am already capable. To me, that is the closest thing I could call 'magic' or 'spirits' or 'god.' Beyond that, I don't think I care.

[Daniel]

On 10/25/2023 at 2:55 PM, NaturaNaturans said:

I feel there is some paradox in saying, as i have, that god is (in) everything and everything is a part of God. It makes logically sense, i think, but at the same time it redifines god as nature.

 

Pantheism vs. Panentheism.  Both are monist.  Pantheism, among other things, puts God in a box and labels it nature.  Panentheism does not.  

[old3bob]

all mental concepts disappear before God,  does anyone really want to go there?

[Nungali]

21 hours ago, Partez said:

 

Have my referral link, I'll get $15 😄

 

https://app.dispensed.com.au?for=arthur90

 

The process was super easy and free.  It's so easy now, I think legalization is around the corner and we can all really tune in to God (See, still on topic)

 

The cost is basically street prices, and quality is good, you can get the oil tho which is around $150 for 30ml.  It's really good.

 

Free ? !   A friend of mine is on it and he had to pay for the initial consultation, then another fee for something and then pay for each delivery ... I mean ,   "  prescription   " .   

 

Street prices ?   I wouldnt have a clue  .... in some places they seem to sell yarndi  at  a high price per bud   ! 

 

Around here ..... ya just pick it up off the road     

 

Spoiler

There was a big bust up river a while back , choppers,  trucks full .   Some kids came home from school, little kids,  with HUGE buds ..... look Mummy !       ... where did THAT come from !   " Its all over the road near  the school !  " 

 

Apparently, our vigilant  police officers and marijuana squad   ( God bless 'em , protecting us all from nasty drugs )  piled up a truck above the sides , went too fast down the road and as it turned onto one  of the old wooden bridges , went over the bump at the approach and bounced a load of fresh heads out ........ right at the school bus stop !          

 

 

 

[Nungali]

21 hours ago, Cobie said:

 

 Nungali not that happy after all. 

 

 

I am glad that   ^    made YOU happy though .     

 

Somehow .... I feel I kinda should'nt be happy sometimes ...... like when guys  on paragliders   fly into your music festival and start machine gunning people  .....   ya know .... stuff like that  .

[Nungali]

19 hours ago, Unota said:

Maybe the 'divinity in nature' would be most accurate for me. Nature is what is most visible. It is something I can see, hear, and touch. With a single action, I can change the makeup of the soil. With what I plant, even a few square feet can alter my entire local ecosystem by providing the food source for a specific species of insects, which in turn feeds a specific population of birds. It controls everything, and yet it's so easily malleable and responsive.

 

I see you are a 'Daoist gardener ' .  Yes , when we understand , a little nudge here and there in the right direction can have large consequences  .

 

Years back when I moved here (over 30 years ago )   I planted some   'mountain oaks'  ( actually a species of casurina ) because its a beautiful favourite tree of mine .

 

 

I didnt realise at the time it was a food ( the seeds in the cones )  for the glossy black cockatoo . Now they feed in it , have a nest near by.

 

 

19 hours ago, Unota said:

The soil is alive with an incomprehensible amount of tiny microbes that digest organic matter in a form that can be processed by plants

 

I worked for  Bio-dynamic agriculture for a while , we used to examine 500  ( cow manure buried in a cow horn underground until it .... 'changes ' ) and see the cycle of different 'bugs' come and go ..... little white ones, then the black ones and later a few red ones ..... look like tiny specs .   But then I came across this  alchemical image  ( from another source )

 

 

'Splendor Solis , image 13 - " Jupiter "  process .

 

 

 

19 hours ago, Unota said:

 

 

, just like the microbes in our gut do the same for us. Everything that I touch is alive. And I don't even need something amazing or magic to change it, because I am already capable. To me, that is the closest thing I could call 'magic' or 'spirits' or 'god.' Beyond that, I don't think I care.

 

[Partez]

22 minutes ago, Nungali said:

Free ? !   A friend of mine is on it and he had to pay for the initial consultation, then another fee for something and then pay for each delivery ... I mean ,   "  prescription   " .   

 

Street prices ?   I wouldnt have a clue  .... in some places they seem to sell yarndi  at  a high price per bud   ! 

 

Around here ..... ya just pick it up off the road

 

The consultation and "diagnosis" is free for this one, then they send you a prescription, but you're not forced to buy from them.  I did because my friend said they had a good quality product for a good price.

 

It's around $150 for 10 grams or 30ml of the oil.

 

Man, I was just in Himachal Pradesh in India, that's my kind of meditation retreat up there 🤪

[Nungali]

9 minutes ago, Partez said:

 

The consultation and "diagnosis" is free for this one, then they send you a prescription, but you're not forced to buy from them.  I did because my friend said they had a good quality product for a good price.

 

It's around $150 for 10 grams or 30ml of the oil.

 

Yoiks !    ... chuck in another   50 and ya get an ozzie around here .    But I suppose .... factory, workers, transport costs , etc  jack the price up . 

 

I have friend that is a mad chemist wiz herbalist  and  develops special strains  ... wow  !    I got a few arthritic  type problems  and some old joint injuries .... when they play up its a bit tough some times  ;   I am down the front paddock fixing a fence , need a tool and have to slog  all all the way back up the hill , feeling slow and like I got lead boots on,  past the cabin, up the little hill behind that up the three small stairs groaning and into the shed , get the tool and go back down  and then .... On no !  I should have got the ..... 

 

next week, I go back to the same job, after taking my mates medicine , same thing .....  I need wire cutters ..... next thing I know I am up in the shed , not sure how I got there .... I walked up there without even being conscious of it  ... standing there going  " I am not in any pain at all ...  wheeeeeeeee  !   " 

 

 

 

9 minutes ago, Partez said:

 

Man, I was just in Himachal Pradesh in India, that's my kind of meditation retreat up there 🤪

 

 

 My part time neighbour comes from there , spends part time there , part time here with his son .

[Jadespear]

....I have something to add.  Ancient Chinese people worshipped The Almighty Creator.  And they created a symbol of the relation of themselves to it by drafting the yin yang.

 

The true meaning of the yin yang symbol:

 

Yang - The Light - The Infinite God.

Yin - The Dark - the ignorance that surrounds us which separates us from a true cognition or relationship to God - the force of darkness that veils the light. Everything that shrouds the light of oneself.

 

The swirl line that separates the two - the ineffable gulf between man and God 

The black dot in the yang - the ear of God that hears and empathizes with man - the open line of communication that represents that God will listen to us.

The white dot - the light of God present in man that guides him in the right direction using his spiritual conscience which is inspired by the Light of God.

 

The symbol has nothing to do with gender or equality of forces.  It represents the relationship of man to his creator.

 

It can be seen in a way to represent the relationship between light and dark in how they both are intertwined as a whole, but not one of equality.

 

[Partez]

4 hours ago, Jadespear said:

The true meaning of the yin yang symbol:

 

Do you have some evidence for this take, such as ancient translated texts and the like.

 

This is the first time I'm hearing an interpretation like this.

 

Ultimately the Ying Yang these days can mean many different things, which is the beauty of it.

 

To me it strongly represents the male and female energies and their melding to complete a whole, as well as the little bit of the others energy we all carry inside.

[Daniel]

6 hours ago, Jadespear said:

Yang - The Light - The Infinite God.

Yin - The Dark - the ignorance that surrounds us

 

If it is truly, literally, absolutely infinite, it would include both light and dark, the entire spectrum in between, and more.  Always more.  Both light and darkness would be simultaneously eclipsed and subsumed within it.

[Daniel]

2 hours ago, Partez said:

To me it strongly represents the male and female energies and their melding to complete a whole, as well as the little bit of the others energy we all carry inside.

 

Here is one of the earliest sources of what became the "yin-yang" translated into english.  More detail is in the wiki link below.  I prefer the diagram on the wiki-link because the source at the top is red.  This is significant.

 

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taijitu

[Cobie]

.

Edited October 29, 2023 by Cobie

[Cobie]

 

13 hours ago, Jadespear said:

.... Ancient Chinese people worshipped The Almighty Creator.  

And they created a symbol of the relation of themselves to it by drafting the yin yang.

 As your own musings it’s fine; but I see no connection with reality. 

 

info on the history of China https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_China  

info re. yinyang https://iep.utm.edu/yinyang/#:~:text=The earliest Chinese characters for,as the 14th century B.C.E.) 

 

 

Edited October 29, 2023 by Cobie

[old3bob]

 

4. "The origin of the Yin-Yang symbol Despite its presence in everyday life, it is fair to say that only a few people know about the origin of the Yin-Yang symbol. Very often, even the most devoted practitioners have to pass on the question about its origin. Contrary to what one would expect, literature dealing with the origin of the Yin-Yang symbol is rare. Contemporary books and articles typically deal in detail with the philosophical facets of Yin and Yang, but do not address the origin of the Yin-Yang symbol. It turns out that the original Yin-Yang symbol is more complex than its modern representation as two semicircles suggests (Browne, 2007; Graf, 1994). The Yin-Yang symbol has its origin in the I-Ching; one of the oldest and most fundamental books in Chinese philosophy. The I-Ching, which is typically translated as “The Book of Changes”, deals with natural phenomena and their seasonal cycles. From the constant changes and transformations in nature, the I-Ching tries to derive the unchanging rules governing our cosmos and our very existence. The observation of celestial phenomena is therefore of central importance to the I-Ching (Hardaker, 2001). It is here, where one finds the roots of the Yin-Yang symbol (Tian & Tian, 2004). For example, by observing the shadow of the sun and recording the positions of the Big Dipper at night throughout the year, the ancient Chinese determined the four points of the compass: The sun rises in the east and sets in the west. The direction of the shortest shadow measured on a given day reveals south (www.chinesefortunecalendar.com/yinyang.htm). At night, the Pole Star indicates North. 4.1 Shadow model The Yin-Yang symbol is tightly connected with the annual cycle of the earth around the sun, and the four seasons resulting from it. To investigate this cycle, the ancient Chinese used a pole that they put up orthogonally to the ground, as shown in Figure 4. With this setup, the Fig. 4. Shadow model. ancient Chinese were able to record precisely the positions of the sun’s shadow and divide the year into different sections. They found the length of a year to be about 365.25 day"

[Cobie]

伏 羲  fu2 xi1 saw the shadow side of the mountain and the light side of the mountain and called them yin and yang.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuxi   
 

 

Edited October 29, 2023 by Cobie

[Daniel]

It's always good to cite the source.

 

 

This is a mathmatical theory claiming that the shape of a modern "yin-yang" came from the pattern of light and shadows produced by a primitive "sun-dial".  It's an interesting theory, but, if it was actually true, one would expect that the modern version of the "yin-yang" would have become popular much-much earlier.

 

[Cobie]

I think people should say when it’s a quote and give the source. 
I posted on OD about it, and a few times here too.

 

 

Edited October 30, 2023 by Cobie

[thelerner]

My view is closest to Pantheism as a metaphysical idea broadly defined by (1) "God is everything and everything is God ... the world is either identical with God or in some way a self-expression of his nature" (Owen 1971: 74).

 

Everything is God, and that can be experienced, not that I'm close, but it can be known in satori, in awe, at times of deep peace.  

 

I'm still working out if It's indifferent, if we're straw dogs, loved.. how personal God is.