Jesse Lee Parker/Dao Zhen

[markern]

I am considering learning Qigong/Nei Gong and Tao Yoga from Jesse Lee Parker that used to post here under the name Dao Zhen. Mainly because I really, really like the examples of forms on his webpages and YouTube channel. They look very appealing to me and it is very important to me that the forms I do are enjoyable for me to do. I was also always impressed by his posts so I have some trust in his judgement and experience and it is an added bonus that he operates out of Japan that is the country I most want to visit. But I don't really know much about his system or the lineage it is connected to and virtually nothing about his teachers. So I am interested in hearing perspectives from other bums. Have any of you studied with him or do you have opinions on his system, his lineage or teachers?

 

These are the websites of what looks to be his two systems:

https://taoyoga.jimdofree.com

https://www.immortalarts.org

[Taoist Texts]

On 10/18/2023 at 1:29 PM, markern said:

have opinions on his system, his lineage or teachers

of course i have

 

 

Quote

 

$585.00 USD

 bringing amazing physical transformation, rejuvenation, 

 

 

what exactly will be transformed? when exactly? how many years of rejuvenation exactly? how many years he rejuvenated himself exactly?

he says exactly how how much hard cash he wants  for 10 hours of hand waving and qi-babble. he does not say what exactly the customers are getting for their hard cash. one thing is certain. whoever pays him - will certainly get amazed.

...lineage..lol

[Apech]

On 10/19/2023 at 5:48 PM, Taoist Texts said:

of course i have

 

 

 

what exactly will be transformed? when exactly? how many years of rejuvenation exactly? how many years he rejuvenated himself exactly?

he says exactly how how much hard cash he wants  for 10 hours of hand waving and qi-babble. he does not say what exactly the customers are getting for their hard cash. one thing is certain. whoever pays him - will certainly get amazed.

...lineage..lol

 

Always questions.

[Taoist Texts]

59 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

Always questions.

actually  it is called 'thinking'. humans should try it sometimes. especially because it is forbidden.

[Apech]

16 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

actually  it is called 'thinking'. humans should try it sometimes. especially because it is forbidden.

Luckily cats are exempt.

[Gerard]

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Edited October 25, 2023 by Gerard

[markern]

1 hour ago, Gerard said:

My advice:

 

If you want to go deep, not that system that teacher is advocating.

 

Alternatives:

 

1. Xingyi Quan

2. Ba Gua Quan

Find a teacher that has gone deep, if not DIY by your "own effort."

 

4. Outside Qigong, you have Vipassana which works great in a retreat environment as it forces you to practice 24/7 for several weeks.

 

 

Thanks for your perspective!

Why would you advise against the system this teacher is advocating if I want to go deep? If that is your advice, surely you must have some reasons for it and those reasons are what is potentially interesting for me to hear.

I don't think Xingyi and Ba Gua are good alternatives to a broad system of qigong, nei gong and meditation that is aimed at "laying the foundation" and then taking you through the traditional alchemical process. Bruce Frantzis basically says Xingyi gives immense health benefits but not really spiritual development. Ba Gua might give more but I don't think any martial art, even a spiritual one, is an efficient replacement for a broad system of qigong, nei gong, meditation and alchemy. They are good and beneficial for their purpose but not really what I am after here. 

I like Vipassana (though not Goenkas style) and it will probably be something I practice in the future. 



 

Edited October 20, 2023 by markern

[markern]

On 19.10.2023 at 6:48 PM, Taoist Texts said:

of course i have

 

 

 

what exactly will be transformed? when exactly? how many years of rejuvenation exactly? how many years he rejuvenated himself exactly?

he says exactly how how much hard cash he wants  for 10 hours of hand waving and qi-babble. he does not say what exactly the customers are getting for their hard cash. one thing is certain. whoever pays him - will certainly get amazed.

...lineage..lol

I think the price is quite reasonable compared to other similar types of courses.

The rest of your reply I find rude and silly. I think calling it 10 hours of hand waving and qi-babble is needlessly rude and disrespectful. 

Why do you write "...lineage...lol"?

[Taoist Texts]

7 hours ago, markern said:

Why do you write "...lineage...lol"?

try answering my questions above and you will lol too

[Gerard]

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Edited October 25, 2023 by Gerard

[markern]

7 hours ago, Gerard said:

Because that system doesn't have a strong connection to the whole Taoist energetic system that Ba Gua and Xingyi do starting from:

 

1. Standing

2. Grounding

3. Moving following an specific pattern (linear and circular)

3. Connecting to the internal organs and body parts according to Yin & Yang theory, Five Elements & Ba Gua trigrams

4. Balancing the Yin and the Yang at all levels 

5. Opening meridian pathways

6. Connecting to the Qi clock setup by the entire organ-meridian network 

7. Connecting to the 12 Animals

8. Removing Qi blockages at all levels

9. Connecting to the natural world 

10. Connecting to the YOU/Mind/Spirit

10. Develop equanimity (Buddhist term for the state of mental balance and even mindedness)

11. Overcome desire

12. Spiritual insight and wisdom

 

You don't need to sell a system using videos, big words, big bucks and books. Let the system sell itself with your OWN EFFORT.

 

Note:

 

Xingyi great tool for grounding and to advance further in the path of Ba Gua as that art misses the circularity and specific stepping of the latter (circle walking and Kou Bu/hook step & Bai Bu/swing step). 

 

 

How do you know that the system does not have that strong connection you are talking about? How familiar are you with it and with Jesse Parker? What do you base this claim on? Your claims seems dubious to me.

The system does contain standing meditation. It obviously contains grounding. It most certainly contains opening meridian pathways and removing Qi blockages at all levels. It most certainly contains the development of equanimity and overcoming desire. What do you base the claim on that this system does not contain spiritual insight and wisdom? It is a an alchemical system. It would be strange for it not to contain spiritual insight and wisdom. What do you base the claim that it does not contain opening meridian pathways and overcoming desire etc. ?

"Let the system sell itself with your OWN EFFORT."

What does this mean concretely and why do you say it. Because it has a webpage selling the course? Practically everyone who teaches these days has a webpage selling their course. What do you suggest doing instead?

[idquest]

On 18/10/2023 at 2:29 AM, markern said:

I am considering learning Qigong/Nei Gong and Tao Yoga from Jesse Lee Parker that used to post here under the name Dao Zhen. Mainly because I really, really like the examples of forms on his webpages and YouTube channel. They look very appealing to me and it is very important to me that the forms I do are enjoyable for me to do. I was also always impressed by his posts so I have some trust in his judgement and experience and it is an added bonus that he operates out of Japan that is the country I most want to visit. But I don't really know much about his system or the lineage it is connected to and virtually nothing about his teachers. So I am interested in hearing perspectives from other bums. Have any of you studied with him or do you have opinions on his system, his lineage or teachers?

 

These are the websites of what looks to be his two systems:

https://taoyoga.jimdofree.com

https://www.immortalarts.org

 

He looks legitimate for me and his explanations have reasonable depth. Not too much not too little. The 24 movements form he teaches has movements you can come across in numerous neigong and daoyin sets; but this does not matter. What matters is how he explains and transmits his knowledge, and this seems to be reasonably good.

 

Have you bought it yet? A bit pricey.

Edited October 23, 2023 by idquest

[Gerard]

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Edited October 25, 2023 by Gerard

[idquest]

10 hours ago, Gerard said:

 

You won't learn 'gongfu' from courses and books.

 

Have you looked up available teachers in your area that teach in the park?

 

This is how traditionally internal arts have been taught since millennia. 

FYI:

 

"A person’s heart and mind are in chaos.

 

Concentration on one thing makes the mind pure.

 

If one aspires to reach the Dao, one should practice walking in a circle."

 

(Quan Zhen (Complete Truth) sect of Daoism - Taoist Canon)

 

 

 

 

I don't argue that traditional methods of education are wrong or bad, they are good, - it is just that life has changed so much in the last 100 years that traditional methods of education don't work for majority of students.

Edited October 23, 2023 by idquest

[Cobie]

17 hours ago, Gerard said:

… If one aspires to reach the Dao, one should practice walking in a circle."
(Quan Zhen (Complete Truth) sect of Daoism - Taoist Canon)

@ChiDragon do you know the characters that were translated to “… walking in a circle.”?
 

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by Cobie

[ChiDragon]

1 hour ago, Cobie said:

@ChiDragon do you know the characters that were translated to “… walking in a circle.”?

在圆圈上走著: walking in a circle

[Cobie]

20 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

在圆圈上走著: walking in a circle

Could it also mean ‘walking around’?

 

 

Edited October 23, 2023 by Cobie

[ChiDragon]

4 minutes ago, Cobie said:

Could it also mean ‘walking around’?

 

四处走动: walking around

 

[Mark Foote]

I learned the first part of Cheng Man-Ch'ing's Tai Chi form in a park, from a local teacher, for free.  I still practice that, daily.  Not sure where you are, but I suspect there may be someone teaching his form near you.  As Gerard said, there is (was?) a tradition in Cheng's school to teach at least the first part of the form in a park, for free.

The books are good, although he searches for a physical explanation of the dan t'ien and I don't think that's what it's about:

"Master Cheng's Thirteen Chapters on Tai Chi Ch'üan", by Cheng Man-Ch'Ing and Douglas Wile | Jan 1, 1982

 

"Master Cheng's Thirteen Chapters on Tai Chi Ch'üan", by Cheng Man Ch'Ing, Benjamin Pang Jeng Lo, and Martin Inn

 

There are more.  Video:
 

 

Edited October 24, 2023 by Mark Foote

[Gerard]

.

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by Gerard

[Taoist Texts]

9 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

在圆圈上走著: walking in a circle

 the specific bagua expression is

走转 e.g 八卦掌功夫重要的组成部分。在"五劲"作用下,走转中以空入定,

11 hours ago, Cobie said:

do you know the characters that were translated to “… walking in a circle.”?

that quote was most likely mistransl or made up

[Cobie]

5 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

 the specific bagua expression is

走转 e.g 八卦掌功夫重要的组成部分。在"五劲"作用下,走转中以空入定,

that quote was most likely mistransl or made up

Thanks. That makes a lot more sense to me. 
 

 

[Gerard]

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Edited October 25, 2023 by Gerard

[ChiDragon]

On 10/24/2023 at 7:40 AM, Cobie said:

走转

It is "walk in circles"; instead of walking in a circle.

[Cobie]

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Edited October 28, 2023 by Cobie