Can jing be replenished?

[Master Logray]

1 hour ago, Taoist Texts said:

means the guru answers no free questions. these topics are available for extra fee after much stringing-on.

 

Of course not. Because making the MCO a goal (heck making anything a goal) would make the guru accountable if the student will not reach the goal (and no student ever will, of course). Hence no goals, just chill.

kumbayah

 

I love what you said.   I did encounter a teacher, only taught 2th to 6th movement of a 8 movements set, and ask for money for the remaining and some extras!   This guy happens to be teaching about Jing, vs all others on Chi only.

 

 

 

 

[silent thunder]

1 hour ago, Taoist Texts said:

Hence no goals, just chill.

Incorrect assumption.  

But you do you.

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

14 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

Incorrect assumption.  

But you do you.

Don’t waste your time, just ignore him and don’t let him derail yet another thread

[liminal_luke]

Sex is scary.  It's natural, fluid, nonlinear, essentially feminine (even for men), and a clear threat to our small, egoic selves.  Many try to get around the fear by compartmentalizing themselves, having sex with bodies only, as if our physical selves could be separated from emotion and spirit.  Many try to have sex like square pegs in an erotic world that is curving, spiraling, and infinitely oceanic.  Compartmentalized sex is like a Snickers Bar.  It can taste good in a superfical way but some part of us knows we aren't really eating food, aren't really receiving nourishment.  Although we might strain to hear it, every sexual encounter evokes the echo of the divine.  

 

Because sex is scary, many try to tame it with rules.  Don't ejaculate (for males), and so on.  Is there something to the idea that sexual energy can be harnessed for spiritual purposes?  I don't claim to know for sure but this seems possible to me.  But if celibacy is beneficial to some, surely it has to emerge naturally, organically, out of an adept's longterm practice.  It's not something that can be imposed in a top down way because we're scared of the sometimes out-of-control feminine power of our own bodies.

[blue eyed snake]

14 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

Sex is scary.  It's natural, fluid, nonlinear, essentially feminine (even for men), and a clear threat to our small, egoic selves.  Many try to get around the fear by compartmentalizing themselves, having sex with bodies only, as if our physical selves could be separated from emotion and spirit.  Many try to have sex like square pegs in an erotic world that is curving, spiraling, and infinitely oceanic.  Compartmentalized sex is like a Snickers Bar.  It can taste good in a superfical way but some part of us knows we aren't really eating food, aren't really receiving nourishment.  Although we might strain to hear it, every sexual encounter evokes the echo of the divine.  

 

Because sex is scary, many try to tame it with rules.  Don't ejaculate (for males), and so on.  Is there something to the idea that sexual energy can be harnessed for spiritual purposes?  I don't claim to know for sure but this seems possible to me.  But if celibacy is beneficial to some, surely it has to emerge naturally, organically, out of an adept's longterm practice.  It's not something that can be imposed in a top down way because we're scared of the sometimes out-of-control feminine power of our own bodies.

 

that's beautiful, the way you put that in words, thank you

[Apech]

18 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

Sex is scary.  It's natural, fluid, nonlinear, essentially feminine (even for men), and a clear threat to our small, egoic selves.  Many try to get around the fear by compartmentalizing themselves, having sex with bodies only, as if our physical selves could be separated from emotion and spirit.  Many try to have sex like square pegs in an erotic world that is curving, spiraling, and infinitely oceanic.  Compartmentalized sex is like a Snickers Bar.  It can taste good in a superfical way but some part of us knows we aren't really eating food, aren't really receiving nourishment.  Although we might strain to hear it, every sexual encounter evokes the echo of the divine.  

 

Because sex is scary, many try to tame it with rules.  Don't ejaculate (for males), and so on.  Is there something to the idea that sexual energy can be harnessed for spiritual purposes?  I don't claim to know for sure but this seems possible to me.  But if celibacy is beneficial to some, surely it has to emerge naturally, organically, out of an adept's longterm practice.  It's not something that can be imposed in a top down way because we're scared of the sometimes out-of-control feminine power of our own bodies.

Great wisdom Brother Luke.

[ChiDragon]

Can jing be replenished?

Why is this question being asked. If it doesn't, then, we would have been dead!

[Sahaja]

My understanding is that in some Daoist lineages for biological males abstinence is only recommended at a certain time(s) in the development process as part of a much bigger process to still the Jing involving lots of things that are stimulating, limiting stress being one of the biggest.  The rest of the time the guidance is just be mindful of not too much with the  definition of  too much  (as it uses lots of energy) getting lower as you age with some variance from person to person. Much more important in cultivation is to not use or abuse others for the purpose of self gratification. 
 

My understanding in yoga is there are certain mudras used that enable the use of the energy behind or the precursor to the  sex  drive (not sex or sex stimulation  itself) to help trigger the energy  up the central channel. I think what has happened is people take a little bit of information combined with limited understanding and turn it into something more exciting  (using sex for cultivation) which I believe is an error for most people. Attachment to sex and power is one of the biggest challenges in cultivation, particularly for biological males (XY).  However sex is also just part of the natural world, part of life, so we need to relate to it that way - not too puritanically, not too hedonistically,  but thoughtfully and openly.

 

 

 

[Master Logray]

1 hour ago, Sahaja said:

My understanding is that in some Daoist lineages for biological males abstinence is only recommended at a certain time(s) in the development process as part of a much bigger process to still the Jing involving lots of things that are stimulating, limiting stress being one of the biggest.  The rest of the time the guidance is just be mindful of not too much with the  definition of  too much  (as it uses lots of energy) getting lower as you age with some variance from person to person. Much more important in cultivation is to not use or abuse others for the purpose of self gratification. 

 

 

Sometimes it is cultural.  A person is expected to have a son (or 2) before going into Neidan or full abstinence.  Before that they can still engage in taming the mind but not the real work.

[kyoji]

 realize licensed acupuncturist or not, you are not a man and haven't a clue about how much depletion a man experiences after ejaculating too often,  shame or no shame (or especially @ the rate in which the OP is saying he does.)

 

even when one has too much healthy sex with their loving partner, it is obviously detrimental in excess. I can hardly practice with all of the prolactin in my muscles/legs after a few too many rounds of "bedroom arts"

 

woman lose their jing monthly, we lose ours largely through our orgasms,  not exclusively but it takes a large tax. we lose much more preheaven jing upon having an orgasm than women do. It is really that simple. Nobody should be masturbating 8 times a day, and the fact that you are closer to thinking that is a healthy habit minus the guilt, than you are to giving sound advice like others have chosen to do here. I think you mean well, but this attitude is terribly misguided.

 

If this is a blog supposedly about Daoist cultivation, how on earth is the advice we are giving? Sexual excess is terrible for ones physical longevity, mental health and spiritual development. This is day one stuff. Could you imagine what the responses would be if somebody started " mansplaining " to you about what the experience of menstruation is like?   

[silent thunder]

[Maddie]

18 hours ago, kyoji said:

 realize licensed acupuncturist or not, you are not a man and haven't a clue about how much depletion a man experiences after ejaculating too often,  shame or no shame (or especially @ the rate in which the OP is saying he does.)

 

even when one has too much healthy sex with their loving partner, it is obviously detrimental in excess. I can hardly practice with all of the prolactin in my muscles/legs after a few too many rounds of "bedroom arts"

 

woman lose their jing monthly, we lose ours largely through our orgasms,  not exclusively but it takes a large tax. we lose much more preheaven jing upon having an orgasm than women do. It is really that simple. Nobody should be masturbating 8 times a day, and the fact that you are closer to thinking that is a healthy habit minus the guilt, than you are to giving sound advice like others have chosen to do here. I think you mean well, but this attitude is terribly misguided.

 

If this is a blog supposedly about Daoist cultivation, how on earth is the advice we are giving? Sexual excess is terrible for ones physical longevity, mental health and spiritual development. This is day one stuff. Could you imagine what the responses would be if somebody started " mansplaining " to you about what the experience of menstruation is like?   

 

 

There's soooooo many things I could say, BUT I'll stick to the most relevant one.

 

As a doctor of TCM, having a degree in it, and practicing it for several years now I would say this qualifies me to have a professional opinion on this. 

Edited May 23 by Maddie

[kyoji]

1 hour ago, Maddie said:

 

 

There's soooooo many things I could say, BUT I'll stick to the most relevant one.

 

As a doctor of TCM, having a degree in it, and practicing it for several years now I would say this qualifies me to have a professional opinion on this. 

so you'll appeal to your supposed authority and leave it there?

 

[kyoji]

1 hour ago, Maddie said:

 

 

There's soooooo many things I could say, BUT I'll stick to the most relevant one.

 

As a doctor of TCM, having a degree in it, and practicing it for several years now I would say this qualifies me to have a professional opinion on this. 

 

It is quite literally the number 1 barrier, especially for men it seems. 

 

"1. Lust
Sexuality is the force behind the procreation of all life. It is also the first great barrier of one who seeks to awaken to the Dao, achieve immortality and enlightenment by following the abnormal methods of the celestial ones. People are born from this path of desire and they die of it. This desire is an inherent nature which moves within us and creates a loss. This movement and the loss causes is a calamity and destitution of this world. Even in an unknowing and unfeeling state it, arises even in a state of thoughtlessness and carelessness it is there. People see desire, passion grows, entering this situation, the spirit moves eagerly and loss occurs. This creates many types of karma. If those who cultivate the Dao rid themselves of the deepest root of this desire, naturally the spiritual seedling will begin to grow. If they encounter this desire and aren’t immediately coerced, they may act without lust, Remarkably, they won’t create desire, preventing lust from entering inside themselves. Those unable or unwilling to eliminate this desire or those unable or unwilling to go this route have many methods available to them. Their ability is deepened through long practice. Eventually the time of elimination of desire will come, when the deepest root is removed, when the physical body is strong, the spiritual body is easily cultivated, all other barriers are easily overcome, whether one has renounced their family to join the monkhood, or not, their wish to become enlightened is unhindered. Although human relations continue into future generations, if the desire of lust is tasteless one’s energy and essence will be ample and flourish, extending life and preventing disease. One must know that human affection is needed for the beginning of cultivation; however, later it clouds they glory of the Way and those who use those affections will not know the Way. Life after life unending is called the great Dao, the cause of the seed to Immortality."

 

this is a daoist cultivation blog. can we keep this in mind when we start appealing to freudian or reichian ideas on sexuality before the wisdom of actual cultivators of the dao?

[Maddie]

20 minutes ago, kyoji said:

 

It is quite literally the number 1 barrier, especially for men it seems. 

 

"1. Lust
Sexuality is the force behind the procreation of all life. It is also the first great barrier of one who seeks to awaken to the Dao, achieve immortality and enlightenment by following the abnormal methods of the celestial ones. People are born from this path of desire and they die of it. This desire is an inherent nature which moves within us and creates a loss. This movement and the loss causes is a calamity and destitution of this world. Even in an unknowing and unfeeling state it, arises even in a state of thoughtlessness and carelessness it is there. People see desire, passion grows, entering this situation, the spirit moves eagerly and loss occurs. This creates many types of karma. If those who cultivate the Dao rid themselves of the deepest root of this desire, naturally the spiritual seedling will begin to grow. If they encounter this desire and aren’t immediately coerced, they may act without lust, Remarkably, they won’t create desire, preventing lust from entering inside themselves. Those unable or unwilling to eliminate this desire or those unable or unwilling to go this route have many methods available to them. Their ability is deepened through long practice. Eventually the time of elimination of desire will come, when the deepest root is removed, when the physical body is strong, the spiritual body is easily cultivated, all other barriers are easily overcome, whether one has renounced their family to join the monkhood, or not, their wish to become enlightened is unhindered. Although human relations continue into future generations, if the desire of lust is tasteless one’s energy and essence will be ample and flourish, extending life and preventing disease. One must know that human affection is needed for the beginning of cultivation; however, later it clouds they glory of the Way and those who use those affections will not know the Way. Life after life unending is called the great Dao, the cause of the seed to Immortality."

 

this is a daoist cultivation blog. can we keep this in mind when we start appealing to freudian or reichian ideas on sexuality before the wisdom of actual cultivators of the dao?

 

sounds like there's some unresolved guilt issues in relation to sexuality to deal with there. 

 

Were you raised in a very religious family?

Edited May 23 by Maddie

[Maddie]

27 minutes ago, kyoji said:

so you'll appeal to your supposed authority and leave it there?

 

 

Is anything I say going to make any difference anyway? 

[kyoji]

Just now, Maddie said:

 

sounds like there's some unresolved guilt issues in relation to sexuality to deal with there. 

 

Were you raised in a very religious family?

 

so you think one can healthily cum 8 times a day and still have time/energy/vitality to do hardphysical labour (which young men should be more than capable of ) , and practice internal alchemy? who has the unresolved issues here exactly? In moderation it is all fine and dandy at certain points in practice, depending on owns goals and orientation towards cultivation, and i quite clearly never said otherwise if you would've read my first response with any discernment.

 

 

[Maddie]

Just now, kyoji said:

 

so you think one can healthily cum 8 times a day and still have time/energy/vitality to do hardphysical labour (which young men should be more than capable of ) , and practice internal alchemy? who has the unresolved issues here exactly? In moderation it is all fine and dandy at certain points in practice, depending on owns goals and orientation towards cultivation, and i quite clearly never said otherwise if you would've read my first response with any discernment.

 

 

 

I think if they do it 8 times a day and they are not a teenager there is probably a sex addiction and therapy would be advisable. 

[Forestgreen]

Well, the issues the OP mentioned is well beyond "just" replenishing jing, neidan style. 

[kyoji]

13 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

I think if they do it 8 times a day and they are not a teenager there is probably a sex addiction and therapy would be advisable. 

or maybe he should just throw his guilt away because the guilt is the problem. he should keep smoking weed too actually, it's the guilt hurting him, not the overuse of a drug that absolutely drains ones vitality ( especially when used chronically )

 

i bet his lower back pain would go away if he could just rid himself of his guilt.

[Maddie]

1 minute ago, kyoji said:

or maybe he should just throw his guilt away because the guilt is the problem

 

I agree

[Forestgreen]

 

6 minutes ago, kyoji said:

or maybe he should just throw his guilt away because the guilt is the problem. 

So, psychotherapy sarcasm. 

Who said that the root problem was guilt? 

Who said psychotherapy primarily works with guilt? 

[kyoji]

 

7 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

I agree

you would, this is the least of your confusion.

 

2 minutes ago, Forestgreen said:

 

So, psychotherapy sarcasm. 

Who said that the root problem was guilt? 

Who said psychotherapy primarily works with guilt? 

Maddie has made the claim multiple times throughout this thread that vital loss does not come from excessive ejaculation, but the guilt associated with said loss. Not me.

 

There is some good psychotherapy available ( if you have $$$$ )  but there is a low supply and high demand IMO.

[Maddie]

10 minutes ago, kyoji said:

 

you would, this is the least of your confusion.

 

Maddie has made the claim multiple times throughout this thread that vital loss does not come from excessive ejaculation, but the guilt associated with said loss. Not me.

 

There is some good psychotherapy available ( if you have $$$$ )  but there is a low supply and high demand IMO.

 

Actually I said that stress and over exertion are what deplete Jing faster. "Burning the candle at both ends so to speak". 

 

* there is an app called "Better Help" that makes finding a therapist very easy and affordable. 

[kyoji]

Just now, Maddie said:

 

Actually I said that stress and over exertion are what deplete Jing faster. "Burning the candle at both ends so to speak". 

 

* there is an app called "Better Help" that makes finding a therapist very easy and affordable. 

 

the one that just lost a class action for selling sensitive information to advertisers? sign me up!