Can jing be replenished?

[Maddie]

1 minute ago, kyoji said:

 

the one that just lost a class action for selling sensitive information to advertisers? sign me up!

 

 

 

Some people in their clinging, cling to their suffering to the point that they refuse all suggestions of ending their suffering. To the mind and the nature of clinging, we tend to prefer what is familiar rather than that which is good often. 

[kyoji]

3 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

Actually I said that stress and over exertion are what deplete Jing faster. "Burning the candle at both ends so to speak". 

 

* there is an app called "Better Help" that makes finding a therapist very easy and affordable. 

when you live in a world where acceptance grows by the day at the same rate in which debauchery of all kinds also arise, a little bit of guilt can go a long away. Especially when it comes from within, and not from without. Ones true conscience is not the same as the fabricated or acquired conscience.

[Forestgreen]

15 minutes ago, kyoji said:

 

Maddie has made the claim multiple times throughout this thread that vital loss does not come from excessive ejaculation, but the 

I would say that the root problem is not being able to cope with the reality of life( sometimes life sucks). Many of the less useful coping methods work by excessively use up jing. 

 

If I had a point ( I might be a pencil), that would be that replenishing jing, neidan style, without first working on the root problem, might fuel the problem. 

[kyoji]

2 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

Some people in their clinging, cling to their suffering to the point that they refuse all suggestions of ending their suffering. To the mind and the nature of clinging, we tend to prefer what is familiar rather than that which is good often. 

 

 

The Failure of Psychology and the Death of Psychotherapy | Psychology Today

 

 

[kyoji]

5 minutes ago, Forestgreen said:

I would say that the root problem is not being able to cope with the reality of life( sometimes life sucks). Many of the less useful coping methods work by excessively use up jing. 

 

If I had a point ( I might be a pencil), that would be that replenishing jing, neidan style, without first working on the root problem, might fuel the problem. 

I am in full agreeance with that.  I have very strong doubts about most of the available therapy today, but that is just my two cents. I know enough therapists who are chemically lobotomizing themselves and their patients just to get through the day and it is a really sad state of affairs. 

 

at any rate real psychotherapy can be a god send if you are blessed enough to come in contact with a real practitioner. 

 

 

Edited May 23 by kyoji

[snowymountains]

19 minutes ago, kyoji said:

I know enough therapists who are chemically lobotomizing themselves and their patients

 

And how exactly did they do that... only psychiatrists can prescribe medication, not psychotherapists...

[kyoji]

1 minute ago, snowymountains said:

 

And how exactly did they do that... only psychiatrists can prescribe medication, not psychotherapists...

referrals because their shitty therapy is a referral system for pharmacopeia more than anything else... 

Edited May 23 by kyoji

[snowymountains]

Just now, kyoji said:

referrals because there shitty therapy is a referral system more than anything else... 

 

Referrals also happen because sometimes they need to happen, you make it sound like psychiatrists have almost no reason to exist, which is not the case.

For some (not all) disorders under used to be called axis 1 in DSM IV, medication is the only effective tool, and of course psychotherapists always referred to psychiatrists for these.

 

That said, yes there is a tendency to medicalise more and more and this leads to more prescriptions, I don't find that trend heathy but it's a long discussion and it's not as simple as you make it sound.

[Maddie]

1 minute ago, snowymountains said:

 

Referrals also happen because sometimes they need to happen, you make it sound like psychiatrists have almost no reason to exist, which is not the case.

For some (not all) disorders under used to be called axis 1 in DSM IV, medication is the only effective tool, and of course psychotherapists always referred to psychiatrists for these.

 

That said, yes there is a tendency to medicalise more and more and this leads to more prescriptions, I don't find that trend heathy but it's a long discussion and it's not as simple as you make it sound.

 

But then again he also doesn't seem to think a degree and medical license in TCM mean anything either.....

[snowymountains]

Just now, Maddie said:

 

But then again he also doesn't seem to think a degree and medical license in TCM mean anything either.....

 

True story, next time I'm sick I'll PM him instead of going to my doctor 😁

[silent thunder]

@kyoji

 

Spoiler

 

 

[kyoji]

15 minutes ago, snowymountains said:

 

Referrals also happen because sometimes they need to happen, you make it sound like psychiatrists have almost no reason to exist, which is not the case.

For some (not all) disorders under used to be called axis 1 in DSM IV, medication is the only effective tool, and of course psychotherapists always referred to psychiatrists for these.

 

That said, yes there is a tendency to medicalise more and more and this leads to more prescriptions, I don't find that trend heathy but it's a long discussion and it's not as simple as you make it sound.

I'm with Szasz in so far as psychiatry exists as a technology to deal with the symptoms of ones mental illness so as to make society run smoother far more than they are a technology to heal disturbed individuals. In cases of Schizophrenia for example plenty of third world countries have far higher recovery rates from abnormal psychological states such as Schizophrenia for pretty obvious reasons ( they don't chemically lobotomize people.)

 

I recall a hilarious story from a whistleblower at a DSM committee giving testimony to the fact one of the symptoms of one or another disorder was taken out of the criteria because a wife of one of the members piped up and said something to affect of " But hunny, I do that too "... so naturally it was taken out  

 

Maybe this dialogue can help point to what I am getting at here The Interviews with Jack True - One of The Most Innovative Hypnotherapists of Our Time - by Jon Rappoport (bibliotecapleyades.net)

 

When your GP tells you that you have a " Chemical Imbalance" I would highly recommend you ask him for that test... and what chemical balance looks like so that you know what you're aiming for..

 

or you can irreparably damage your brain for years trying to " find the right meds"  because there is no such test.

Edited May 23 by kyoji

[Maddie]

11 minutes ago, snowymountains said:

 

True story, next time I'm sick I'll PM him instead of going to my doctor 😁

 

Nothing is better than "I heard this on the internet somewhere so it must be true" and "trust me bro"

[Maddie]

2 minutes ago, kyoji said:

 In cases of Schizophrenia for example plenty of third world countries have far higher recovery rates from abnormal psychological states such Schizophrenia for pretty obvious reasons

 

You've clearly not been to a third world country and seen all the people on the street that desperately need help then. 

Edited May 23 by Maddie

[kyoji]

21 hours ago, kyoji said:

 realize licensed acupuncturist or not, you are not a man and haven't a clue about how much depletion a man experiences after ejaculating too often,  shame or no shame (or especially @ the rate in which the OP is saying he does.)

 

even when one has too much healthy sex with their loving partner, it is obviously detrimental in excess. I can hardly practice with all of the prolactin in my muscles/legs after a few too many rounds of "bedroom arts"

 

woman lose their jing monthly, we lose ours largely through our orgasms,  not exclusively but it takes a large tax. we lose much more preheaven jing upon having an orgasm than women do. It is really that simple. Nobody should be masturbating 8 times a day, and the fact that you are closer to thinking that is a healthy habit minus the guilt, than you are to giving sound advice like others have chosen to do here. I think you mean well, but this attitude is terribly misguided.

 

If this is a blog supposedly about Daoist cultivation, how on earth is the advice we are giving? Sexual excess is terrible for ones physical longevity, mental health and spiritual development. This is day one stuff. Could you imagine what the responses would be if somebody started " mansplaining " to you about what the experience of menstruation is like?   

i take this back actually, you either have or had a penis in which case your testimony holds more weight, even if it is only the weight of a couple o'testes.

Edited May 23 by kyoji

[kyoji]

5 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

You've clearly not been to a third world country and seen all the people on the street that desperately need help then. 

BILLIONS MUST BE MEDICATED

 

that'll solve the ills of unbridled crony capitalism and colonialism ! heck ya

Edited May 23 by kyoji

[snowymountains]

1 minute ago, kyoji said:

I'm with Szasz in so far as psychiatry exists as a technology to deal with the symptoms of ones mental illness so as to make society run smoother far more than they are a technology to heal disturbed individuals. In cases of Schizophrenia for example plenty of third world countries have far higher recovery rates from abnormal psychological states such Schizophrenia for pretty obvious reasons ( they don't chemically lobotomize people.)

 

I recall a hilarious story from a whistleblower at a DSM committee giving testimony to the fact one of the symptoms of one or another disorder was taken out of the criteria because a wife of one of the members piped up and said something to affect of " But hunny, I do that too "... so naturally it was taken out  

 

Maybe this dialogue can help point to what I am getting at here The Interviews with Jack True - One of The Most Innovative Hypnotherapists of Our Time - by Jon Rappoport (bibliotecapleyades.net)

 

When your GP tells you that you have a " Chemical Imbalance" I would highly recommend you ask him for that test... and what chemical balance looks like so that you know what you're aiming for..

 

or you can irreparably damage your brain for years trying to " find the right meds"  because there is no such test.

 

Some disorders have no therapy, only prescriptions can help, e.g. bipolar. It's utterly unethical for a therapist to keep a client they cannot help and of course they refer to a psychiatrist.

 

In such cases, a psychotherapist may retain in the client only to help them with the side effects of the disorder in the client's life and a psychiatrist will prescribe for the treatment of the actual disorder.

 

Again, you almost make it sound as if e.g. there's some hidden therapy for psychosis that psychotherapists willingly do not do.

This is complete and utter BS, I have no better way of putting it.

[snowymountains]

6 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

You've clearly not been to a third world country and seen all the people on the street that desperately need help then. 

 

A lot of third world countries have populations with great mental health, WHO publishes a report on this.

But the question here is what is wrong in developed economies & their lifestyles that makes people have such a bad average mental health.

It's not like 3rd world countries they have some secret therapy for psychosis that nobody else knows...

[Elysium]

1 hour ago, Maddie said:

 

sounds like there's some unresolved guilt issues in relation to sexuality to deal with there. 

 

Were you raised in a very religious family?

This question is not for me but coming from an Islamic background, I have seen masturbation in a negative light for the most of the time (not that it stops me from it but the guilt). Even after years of quitting the religion I still have some programming from it. Impossible for me to sleep after a session unless I shower ASAP, for example.

[kyoji]

3 minutes ago, snowymountains said:

 

A lot of third world countries have populations with great mental health, WHO publishes a report on this.

But the question here is what is wrong in developed economies & their lifestyles that makes people have such a bad average mental health.

It's not like 3rd world countries they have some secret therapy for psychosis that nobody else knows...

Thank you for clearing that up for Maddie. I don't claim they have secret therapy.. the power is in what they don't do.

 

No such thing as mental illness? Critical reflections on the major ideas and legacy of Thomas Szasz - PMC (nih.gov)

[kyoji]

2 minutes ago, Elysium said:

This question is not for me but coming from an Islamic background, I have seen masturbation in a negative light for the most of the time (not that it stops me from it but the guilt). Even after years of quitting the religion I still have some programming from it. Impossible for me to sleep after a session unless I shower ASAP, for example.

 

I was not raised remotely religious, and I would feel the same as you do RE: cleaning. I think this is just called hygiene. Who in their right mind is going to sleep in a clean bed with a greasy dick and balls?   I mean heck, people do it, and i have done it in my youth!! But i would not say i was in my right mind! That is something a horny teen does and one should grow out of I imagine?

personally, i love clean bedding, and being clean before i sleep. I work part time as a gaucho for my second job a few nights a week, and it gets hot around the fire, and with all of the grease and sweat on me I'd never think to hop into my bed without showering! I think this is the same. You can overthink the symbolic meaning of cleanliness vs dirtiness in relation to jerking off, but I don't do this because i was raised secularly. I just feel more comfortable being clean and having fresh smelling linens that don't smell like dry cum or sweat from the "bedroom arts" , and my woman feels the same.

 

 

[snowymountains]

29 minutes ago, kyoji said:

Thank you for clearing that up for Maddie. I don't claim they have secret therapy.. the power is in what they don't do.

 

No such thing as mental illness? Critical reflections on the major ideas and legacy of Thomas Szasz - PMC (nih.gov)

 

So you know what it is, and concluded that overall they have less disorders in less developed countries because in developed ones, when someone does develop a disorder, psychiatrists prescribe...

 

 

The whole discussion on treatments being/not being based on diagnoses of disorders is something different to what you think it is.

 

A therapist who does not work with the DSM and doesn't follow a symptoms-based approach does not ignore there may be a disorder and does not ignore the DSM.

 

The whole discussion there is about short term treatments, which are symptoms based and thus use the DSM vs different treatment modalities that do not use the DSM and typically take longer because they aim at restructuring personality, which (as a side-effect) will also cure the symptoms. 

Therapies based on symptoms typically are timebound and have a different goal, to soften symptoms and provide the client with coping skills, they're not about restructuring personality, which may take e.g. 4 years.

In the longer term ones the therapist may not use a symptoms approach to drive the therapy but during their supervision time, they will likely also include language from the DSM when they talk to their supervisor.

 

It's not about good vs evil, it's about goals of each type of therapy, what the client wants and the costs of therapy, not all clients can afford spending a longer time doing PCT or psychoanalysis.

 

And of course for what there's no psychotherapy, there's no psychotherapy, it cannot be treated with neither shorter nor longer term therapies and prescriptions by psychiatrists are the only option.

Edited May 23 by snowymountains

[kyoji]

2 hours ago, Maddie said:

 

sounds like there's some unresolved guilt issues in relation to sexuality to deal with there. 

 

Were you raised in a very religious family?

the only guilt that arises in me regarding sexuality is when i let a lesser desire ( such as sex, lust) hurt my ability to act on my greater desires of serving others and true attainment. If I feel sloth as a result of imbalance or excessive sexual activity, I have failed my Daena and I have failed myself it is really that simple. I may be lazy and not do the things I'd like to ideally be doing because I need more time to regain my strength. There is a reason why you don't cum before a big lift day, or a fight.  If one prioritizes sexual climax over life destiny, maybe a little bit of guilt is the natural feeling to arise. don't dwell in it, or feel despair, but one must allow it to point oneself towards higher values than the gratification of ones sexual desires. Despair will lead you down a dark road, but when one can focus on selflessness and acts of service to ones community, there will be a higher value orienting your path, and it'll make it clear why shooting arrows constantly is an unhealthy practice.

 

your attempts to psychoanalyze here are something else.

[Maddie]

5 minutes ago, kyoji said:

the only guilt that arises in me regarding sexuality is when i let a lesser desire ( such as sex, lust) hurt my ability to act on my greater desires of serving others and true attainment. If I feel sloth as a result of imbalance or excessive sexual activity, I have failed my Daena and I have failed myself it is really that simple. I may be lazy and not do the things I'd like to ideally be doing because I need more time to regain my strength. There is a reason why you don't cum before a big lift day, or a fight.  If one prioritizes sexual climax over life destiny, maybe a little bit of guilt is the natural feeling to arise. don't dwell in it, or feel despair, but one must allow it to point oneself towards higher values than the gratification of ones sexual desires. Despair will lead you down a dark road, but when one can focus on selflessness and acts of service to ones community, there will be a higher value orienting your path, and it'll make it clear why shooting arrows constantly is an unhealthy practice.

 

your attempts to psychoanalyze here are something else.

 

Guilt. I'm not judging you, just identifying the issue. 

[kyoji]

1 minute ago, Maddie said:

 

Guilt. I'm not judging you, just identifying the issue. 

yes but you act as if it is some cultural instituted problem and not the fact that we as humans can be quite weak, and sometimes lack the resolve to seek the good. Should one not feel guilt when they know they've done something that is a disservice to their higher ideals?