zerostao Posted November 7, 2023 https://www.businessinsider.com/china-plans-mass-production-humanoid-robots-within-two-years-2023-11 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silent thunder Posted November 9, 2023 Robots of flesh and robots of metal... I find i am intrigued by the process of conditioning (programming) that arises in either. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taomeow Posted November 9, 2023 51 minutes ago, silent thunder said: Robots of flesh and robots of metal... I find i am intrigued by the process of conditioning (programming) that arises in either. A long time ago I came up with an analogy that I think helped me understand. This dude is walking down the street and something bothers his left foot, some discomfort, even pain, causing him to limp. "Try running away from it," mom suggests compassionately. Dude tries to run, it hurts worse. "Man up, it's nothing, stop paying attention to trifles like a pussy," dad chimes in. Dude clenches his teeth and tries not to limp, but he can't. "Focus on the positive, you do have legs after all, be grateful for it, and don't forget to express gratitude at every step," sister offers. Dude mumbles, "it's great to have legs, thank you universe for your love and kindness," the left foot cramps up from the effort of trying to step around the pain. "Pain is the cleanser," Flanders from The Simpsons makes a surprise appearance while tugging at his own mustache. Dude keeps limping, trying to feel cleansed and pure. "Privileged boy, there's oppression and microaggressions and climate change and you're still focusing only on your own feelings," a pink-haired passer-by snaps at him. Dude tries to blame climate change for the pain in his left foot but it still hurts.... If I was there I'd suggest taking the shoe off, and that would reveal a little sharp stone that slipped into the shoe at some point, unnoticed. I would recommend turning the shoe upside down and shaking it out. Then putting the shoe back on. Dude, doesn't it feel better? Isn't knowing the exact cause of the problem the prerequisite for solving it? You know what your problem is? You don't know thyself, and that means you don't know exactly what happened to you to make you into what you are now. And because you don't own your own developmental history, your origins, who and what and how has shaped you on a deeper inner level, you aren't conscious. That's why you can't choose or change a thing about yourself to any depth while others can -- which is to say, you are fully programmable. Anyone can fill your head with any which crap. Welcome to the machine. 1 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
S:C Posted November 9, 2023 So your advice @Taomeow is what: try live ideologically free (without concepts deny all crap at the root) or try to own your own developmental history to try to choose and change a thing? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silent thunder Posted November 9, 2023 @Taomeow So appreciate your presence and sharings here. <deep bow of respect> 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
liminal_luke Posted November 9, 2023 1 hour ago, Taomeow said: You know what your problem is? You don't know thyself, and that means you don't know exactly what happened to you to make you into what you are now. And because you don't own your own developmental history, your origins, who and what and how has shaped you on a deeper inner level, you aren't conscious. That's why you can't choose or change a thing about yourself to any depth while others can -- which is to say, you are fully programmable. Anyone can fill your head with any which crap. Welcome to the machine. For some months, I've been trying, unsuccessfully, to let go of a grudge and forgive a friend. I think this perspective will help. Maybe he just hasn't done the work of knowing himself and thus wasn't able to resist some harmful-to-me programming. That feels forgivable. I know how hard it is and it's not like I've "done my homework" either. (Well, I like to think I've started but I'm far from done.) So maybe I can move on from my grouchiness. Thanks! 2 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted November 9, 2023 You see ... there is the problem ! A liminal luke robot would NEVER get grouchy ... he would strictly follow his program of love and forgiveness .... and surprises would disappear from the world . 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sanity Check Posted November 10, 2023 (edited) This comes hot on the heels of tesla making similar announcements. https://www.businessinsider.com/elon-musk-humanoid-robots-tesla-hiring-workers-2023-11 Edited November 10, 2023 by Sanity Check Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taomeow Posted November 10, 2023 On 11/9/2023 at 10:35 AM, S:C said: So your advice @Taomeow is what: try live ideologically free (without concepts deny all crap at the root) or try to own your own developmental history to try to choose and change a thing? I don't know if I would take it as far as to give advice... but I do think that anything one "believes in," especially if it's a passionate, entrenched credo, and more so if it's the kind that creates one's actual behavior, life choices, allegiances and animosities, etc., should be suspect. "Know thyself" must start with dissecting those most tightly held beliefs and examining them with honesty and courage. Especially their origin. If I believe this and that, and it causes me to think, speak, and act in a particular manner -- why don't I try to find out where it's coming from. Who, when, how, why?? -- became the source of this belief of mine, this behavior, this self-identification with an ideology, a narrative, an interpretation? Sometimes one has to dig deep... but the source is always there. Examine it... is it really something that "goes without saying" or was it someone's saying or doing that I internalized and now consider my own, part of who I am, the entirety of who I am?.. To discover programmed extraneous stuff within oneself can be mighty shocking -- and mighty healing. The good news is, a live human being is capable -- at least in theory -- of deprogramming herself. Robots aren't so lucky. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
liminal_luke Posted November 10, 2023 (edited) 21 hours ago, Nungali said: A liminal luke robot would NEVER get grouchy ... he would strictly follow his program of love and forgiveness .... I think maybe you're confusing the algorithm I've programmed to write my posts with the real me. An easy mistake. Edited November 10, 2023 by liminal_luke 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taomeow Posted November 10, 2023 On 11/9/2023 at 11:59 AM, liminal_luke said: For some months, I've been trying, unsuccessfully, to let go of a grudge and forgive a friend. I think this perspective will help. Maybe he just hasn't done the work of knowing himself and thus wasn't able to resist some harmful-to-me programming. That feels forgivable. I know how hard it is and it's not like I've "done my homework" either. (Well, I like to think I've started but I'm far from done.) So maybe I can move on from my grouchiness. Thanks! I'm in the same (or similar) boat with a friend right now. The worst part is that she's one of the few with whom I've shared a "controversial" perspective on certain recent enough events, and I don't typically find many people with whom I see eye to eye on any "most talked about" subjects... so every such encounter is a precious outlet for my very own pent-up reality. But then I run into whole reinforced concrete blocks of absolutely artificially created beliefs in her mind on a different "talked about' issue -- and there's no making a dent, not with facts, not with logic, not with common sense, not with real-life experiences... nada. It's those impenetrable things, calcified into the very arteries feeding the areas of the brain that hold particular superimposed sets of deranged beliefs, that make it very frustrating to deal with people who would be just normal fine people without that crap... but "that crap" takes up so much of their cognitive space that finding fertile (and safe) ground for non-self-cenzored interactions becomes increasingly problematic. We both love cats though... we can talk about cats... 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
liminal_luke Posted November 10, 2023 3 minutes ago, Taomeow said: I'm in the same (or similar) boat with a friend right now. The worst part is that she's one of the few with whom I've shared a "controversial" perspective on certain recent enough events, and I don't typically find many people with whom I see eye to eye on any "most talked about" subjects... so every such encounter is a precious outlet for my very own pent-up reality. But then I run into whole reinforced concrete blocks of absolutely artificially created beliefs in her mind on a different "talked about' issue -- and there's no making a dent, not with facts, not with logic, not with common sense, not with real-life experiences... nada. It's those impenetrable things, calcified into the very arteries feeding the areas of the brain that hold particular superimposed sets of deranged beliefs, that make it very frustrating to deal with people who would be just normal fine people without that crap... but "that crap" takes up so much of their cognitive space that finding fertile (and safe) ground for non-self-cenzored interactions becomes increasingly problematic. We both love cats though... we can talk about cats... I hear ya. If you approach questions with an open let-me-see-what's-true attitude and follow where your research takes you, you're unlikely to come up with a set of findings that perfectly fits anybody's grouping of acceptable answers. And people can get prickly fast. Like I emailed my friend this morning, I could follow along the allowable path on 9 out of 10 issues and the true believers would still throw me out on my ass. Thinking is a dangerous sport, but whatcha gonna do? The people who "get you" will appreciate your wild, unpredictable, independent, catlike, thinking nature. Those who don't can go to the dogs. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nungali Posted November 11, 2023 3 hours ago, Taomeow said: I'm in the same (or similar) boat with a friend right now. The worst part is that she's one of the few with whom I've shared a "controversial" perspective on certain recent enough events, and I don't typically find many people with whom I see eye to eye on any "most talked about" subjects... so every such encounter is a precious outlet for my very own pent-up reality. But then I run into whole reinforced concrete blocks of absolutely artificially created beliefs in her mind on a different "talked about' issue -- and there's no making a dent, not with facts, not with logic, not with common sense, not with real-life experiences... nada. It's those impenetrable things, calcified into the very arteries feeding the areas of the brain that hold particular superimposed sets of deranged beliefs, that make it very frustrating to deal with people who would be just normal fine people without that crap... but "that crap" takes up so much of their cognitive space that finding fertile (and safe) ground for non-self-cenzored interactions becomes increasingly problematic. We both love cats though... we can talk about cats... Connect to people in the areas where you CAN connect with them . 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Taomeow Posted November 11, 2023 4 hours ago, Nungali said: Connect to people in the areas where you CAN connect with them . Right. She has the meowiest cat ever, he constantly participates in our phone conversations, meowing his opinions in the background, very loudly and pretty much nonstop. (Jealous of the phone, doesn't like to be left out.) On the subject of left-right politics (which unfortunately the conversation turned to), I'd much rather she handed the phone to the cat altogether, I felt it would be easier to connect to him. 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
S:C Posted November 13, 2023 It is not possible to live ideologically free, is it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
thelerner Posted November 26, 2023 (edited) Two days ago I went to a Thai restaurant in Florida. They had, not a waiter but robot server. Four feet tall, wheels, emoji head made of dots, body with trays. It's come to your table smiled. Asked you to pick up trays on its middle with a manga style voice. Recognized when the trays were gone and rode back to the kitchen. My son looked it up and found they cost $16,000. Here it is- In the spirit of Kruschev- When the robot revolution comes, we will provide the electricity. P.S It came 50 years ago, we just didn't notice at the time. & they took our jobs. Edited November 26, 2023 by thelerner 3 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
