Chain of disillusionment

[Salvijus]

Do you think there's anything out there that is legit? Or did you lose hope in everything. 

@Maddie

 

(The video was a just a joke tho) 

Edited November 12, 2023 by Salvijus

[Maddie]

3 minutes ago, Salvijus said:

Do you think there's anything out there that is legit? Or did you lose hope in everything. 

@Maddie

 

(The video was a just a joke tho) 

 

Oh I didn't realize that lol. But about videos, its too easy to fake stuff in video. 

[Cobie]

 

5 hours ago, Salvijus said:

… (The video was a just a joke tho) 

Really? You changed your mind quickly, that’s not at all what you said.

 

6 hours ago, Salvijus said:

If this doesn't convince you of the magical Tai chi then I don't know what will. 

 

 

5 hours ago, Maddie said:

… about videos, its too easy to fake stuff in video. 

 

Exactly. Let’s hear it from our very own The Dao Bums’ master: 

 

On 11/11/2023 at 12:16 AM, Nungali said:

…  I snapped in a groin kick and he was outraged " You kicked me in the balls ! "

 

" Yes , but I didnt hurt you , did I ."

 

Confused ... " No ... why ? "

 

" because I stopped the kick just as my foot started to touch them "   …   

Impressive.  
 

 

Edited November 12, 2023 by Cobie

[Salvijus]

? I just thought that video is funny af

[Bhathen]

On 11/10/2023 at 8:40 AM, Maddie said:

 

So here's my question about these mystical teachers that are hidden from society, much like Santa Claus and God if no one's ever seen them how do we know they exist?

My teacher was living in the midst of society, yet 95% of people living in his street never saw him. Even if they had it was another old man for them. Neighbors were searching for teachers all over when he was right beside them.

[Salvijus]

If I was seriously trying to convince her of magic, I would just show her my bycep 💪

Edited November 12, 2023 by Salvijus

[Maddie]

29 minutes ago, Bhathen said:

My teacher was living in the midst of society, yet 95% of people living in his street never saw him. Even if they had it was another old man for them. Neighbors were searching for teachers all over when he was right beside them.

 

Ok two questions....

 

1. What could he do?

 

2. Would it still work if he tried it on a non-believer / MMA fighter? 

[Mark Foote]

On 11/10/2023 at 10:53 AM, Maddie said:

 

Yeah if I ever  cross paths with one for sure.

 

When I was younger I fell into a Christian cult. One of the main ways they gave the cult leader legitimacy was to talk about all the amazing miracles he did and visions he had had on the mission field in the Philippines in the past. The funny thing was, is that I never saw him do one single miracle (unless you count getting people to give you all of their money a miracle) the entire time I was around him. It was always far away and long ago, ie. in a place that could not be disputed nor verified by anyone. So to me when I hear of all of these  "secret masters" with powers but you just don't know who they are or you can't see them, this really seems no different to me than the cult leader or for that matter even Santa Clause. I'm of the mindset that I see the proof first and then I believe it, and not the other way around which I think is reasonable.  
 

 

24 But Thomas, one of the twelve, called Didymus, was not with them when Jesus came.
25 The other disciples therefore said unto him, We have seen the Lord. But he said unto them, Except I shall see in his hands the print of the nails, and put my finger into the print of the nails, and thrust my hand into his side, I will not believe.
26 And after eight days again his disciples were within, and Thomas with them: then came Jesus, the doors being shut, and stood in the midst, and said, Peace be unto you.
27 Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust it into my side: and be not faithless, but believing.
28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God.
29 Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.

(Wikipedia, "Doubting Thomas", passage from chapter 20 of the Gospel of John, King James version)

 

 

I'm inclined to believe that 24 and 25 happened, and the rest was an invention, but I feel that way about most of the Gospel of John.  It was, after all, composed about 150 years later than the first three gospels.

Maddie, you are a regular doubting Thomas!  So am I.

On the subject of healers, many of them are remarkable.  Gautama never claimed any miracles, other than the ability to teach.

 

 

dermatomes:

 

 

 

Edited November 12, 2023 by Mark Foote

[Maddie]

8 minutes ago, Mark Foote said:

Maddie, you are a regular doubting Thomas!  So am I.

 

 

In the Kalama Sutta the Buddha did encourage people to inquire into things to see they were true and not just accept things at face value. 😉

[Mark Foote]

9 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

 

In the Kalama Sutta the Buddha did encourage people to inquire into things to see they were true and not just accept things at face value. 😉
 

Yes, and before he died, he advised people to be lamp on themselves, although he said that the way to do that was to be mindful with regard to body, feelings, mind, and mental states.

I posted my last post in this thread before I finished it--I did add something now, and an illustration of the dermatomes (the areas on the surface of the skin that are innervated by nerves from particular vertebrae of the spine).  

[Nungali]

On 11/11/2023 at 11:35 PM, Maddie said:

^Magic martial artists are real because "trust me bro". 

 

Actually, you touched on one of my ' unusual specialties'  , but maybe not  exactly like you mean .  I have been studying and practicing both martial arts and western magic for decades  and teach ( at rare times ) a mix of them ;

4 main 'magical weapons'  wand , cup, dagger (or sword for some ) disc.  Martial weapons ; staff , dagger and swords , shields ... with the cup, I consider 'receptive /  absorbing '  techniques.   Their is interesting crossovers considering the energy, usage and purpose of a weapon .  In aikido they have three main weapons they train with and kept on the 'Shomen' ( a type of altar in the east of the dojo ) ;  short staff ( jo )  a sword (wooden boken ) and a dagger ( wooden 'tanto' , like a small sword / knife ) .

 

In the Book of the Law it says ' The work of the wand and the work of the sword , these he shall learn and teach . ' Obviously referring to invocation and evocation , but an interesting  passage for me .

 

I have never found  any 'magic' in it as such  BUT I find by using  the main four principles and visualizations it does help one to be able perform in a seemingly magical manner  ;

 

Eg, once at a festival I agreed to put on an introduction to Aikido  . I expected about 3 or 4 but got over 30 ... yikes !  Where to start ? I came up with the idea to get the most frail looking woman and two of the biggest strongest looking guys , either side of her , now... you go all strong and dont let them lift you up , they grab her arms and up she goes ... then I explain top her the 4 visualizations and energy flows  and they cant lift her .... everyone can see them trying, their muscles bulging, their faces showing effort , but she doesnt go up 

 

      that got them interested

 

it all works by the fourth 'magical power '   , which is STILL kinda 'magic' and not understood fully by science  ..... gravity .

 

That is , the force of gravity , your 'rooting ' in place , your ability to be able to use external forces to physically cancel out  each other , your and other people's 'center of gravity ' , absorbing and repelling external force and so on .... rather impossible for a beginner to manage ... but somehow 'magically'  , a few visualizations can enable someone to juggle the body mechanics ... its actually physics  more than magic .   .... I know that is an unpopular opinion with many here  ... especially when I offered all that  as an explanation for 'ki' ... on Daobums     ... but hey  ..... 

 

trust me

 

 

 

[Nungali]

7 hours ago, Maddie said:

 

Or Nuts-gone. 

 

True ... I read one of those guys medical reports ... nuts where hard shriveled up defunct little  nuggets ... and not the type you get at McDonalds .

 

A simple leg block might suffice instead  or , something I 'pulled off' once  against a  an attempted groin kick at me , I countered with a thrusting heel kick where the bottom of my heel connected with the bottom edge of his kneecap as his leg straightened   out for his  kick  ( after moving his target - my groin - off line ) .

 

It might not just be Daoist masters though : 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=itv0SoMFZ7E

[Nungali]

6 hours ago, Cobie said:

 

Really? You changed your mind quickly, that’s not at all what you said.

 

 

 

Exactly. Let’s hear it from our very own The Dao Bums’ master: 

 

Impressive.  
 

 

 

Thank you !  

 

I find this skill more impressive and personally satisfying than hurting people .

 

Eg

 

Partner  :  " Oooch ! "  shakes hand in the air .

 

Me ;   " Lu 11 ?   ' Tickles'   dont it ? "

 

Him; "  Yeah ... good shot . "

 

Me : "  Yes, considering how we where in mid - melee  'rumble' / chaos and it was hard enough for you to not dispute it *  , yet not hard enough to disrupt the nerves up the whole arm .... getting better already ?  "

 

"  Yeah . "

 

( I should confess :  one time I snapped my training mate with a kick on his saggy pants crutch , he was " Arrgh you kicked me in the balls you bastard ! "

Me : " Ohh come on now ... I just kicked 5 cm up into ya saggy pants crutch, so unless you got no undies on  and are ummm   'hanging extremely low'  , I dont see how ?"

 

Him :  " I dont have underwear on today ."

 

Me :  " Oops .... I mean  .... ewwwwww  !     DUDE !      "  )

 

*  I got tired of certain people going  " Missed me "  .. no I didnt , I was 'focusing' ... so I ended up putting a floppy rubber tip on the end of my  staff / spears **  , so when I stabbed their foot , slacked around the back of the knee , or even a draw back cut ( back end of spear point is 'sharpened ' ie, painted silver ) across the jugular ... they know now .

 

** many of our staff forms seem adapted from spear forms , putting a tip on one end  when doing forms  shows that   

 

My other magic feats are ... yes, kick my balls , I dont care  .... la la la laar

 

Spoiler

 

[Bhathen]

17 hours ago, Maddie said:

 

Ok two questions....

 

1. What could he do?

 

2. Would it still work if he tried it on a non-believer / MMA fighter? 

1. If you had read freeform's experience with his master, that is the kind of teacher am talking about. It is more of a master disciple relationship where I was taught everything I needed to know to lead my life well. Everything was taken care of and the path for my journey was shown.

 

Even if something was shown or skills exhibited, belief and trust are different. I don't have the words to explain the nonphysical action which is not perceivable by the five senses. 

 

2. What others understood, I don't know.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Bhathen

[Maddie]

6 minutes ago, Bhathen said:

1. If you had read freeform's experience with his master, that is the kind of teacher am talking about. It is more of a master disciple relationship where I was taught everything I needed to know to lead my life well. Everything was taken care of and the path for my journey was shown.

 

Do you think even if something was shown or skills exhibited, people would completely trust that person? Belief is a very low term and I don't have the words to explain the nonphysical action which is not perceivable by the five senses. 

 

2. What others understood I never asked. 

 

Okay so he sounds like he was a good life coach which is definitely cool and valuable for sure, but not supernatural or magical.

[Bhathen]

55 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

Okay so he sounds like he was a good life coach which is definitely cool and valuable for sure, but not supernatural or magical.

What kind of magical teacher are you looking for?

[Maddie]

2 minutes ago, Bhathen said:

What kind of magical teacher are you looking for?

 

I not really looking for a magical teacher but if there's any magical teachers out there that are willing to volunteer having a genie would be nice LOL.

Edited November 13, 2023 by Maddie

[Nungali]

Well,   thats exactly what I thought ... as a 15 year old boy 

 

 

[Neirong]

To climb the mountain you need at least to be at its foundation. Most people don't have the foundation built, so they have no idea that the mountain even exists.

There are things that are pointless to talk about until you have developed all the prerequisites. I am not aware of any higher being that would volunteer to be a test subject for lower beings.

Spiritual development is not physical, yet you are looking for evidence that it exists in physical sparring.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Neirong

[Maddie]

2 minutes ago, Neirong said:

Spiritual development is not physical, yet you are looking for evidence that it exists in physical sparring.

 

No, what I'm looking for is if someone claims they can knock someone out, without touching them and when they get into the ring with an actual fighter and they get their ass beat, they are a fraud. 

 

This isn't as deep as spiritual reality. I'm just talking about people that are full of crap being called out on it. 

 

This then raises the question. If I had been told this style of martial art was wonderful for fighting and led to spiritual development and the martial art isn't wonderful because it looses, then are the other spiritual claims fraudulent as well?

[Neirong]

 

This is a good video about martial arts.

Of course there are fraudulent and completely bullshit spiritual teachings, who thought otherwise?
Spirituality is much harder to measure than martial arts, so of course there are even more delusional people and delusional teachings.

Edited December 11, 2023 by Neirong

[Maddie]

9 minutes ago, Neirong said:

Of course there are fraudulent and completely bullshit spiritual teachings, who thought otherwise?
Spirituality is much harder to measure than martial arts, so of course there are even more delusional people and delusional teachings.

 

That being the case it would stand to reason that one would want to make sure what they thought was correct is indeed correct. 

[Maddie]

Here's a recent video of yet another TMA fighting MMA. The results are predictable. 

 

 

[Maddie]

* I don't know what I was doing >_<

Edited November 14, 2023 by Maddie
being an idiot

[Cobie]

 

On 09/11/2023 at 5:57 PM, Maddie said:

I don't know if this has happened to anyone else, (I'm pretty sure its likely though) but I feel like the UFC/MMA phenomenon exposing a lot of traditional martial arts as BS has caused me to question things way beyond the scope of just martial arts. Basically in my mind I think "well if these martial art forms that I used to admire were shown to be frauds then what else from the East that I admired is a fraud? Qigong, religions, philosophies?". Has this happened to anyone else? 

Yes. But it wasn’t the UFC/MMA phenomenon in my case. After 50 years of exploring Eastern religions, I became disillusioned with the cultural history (things like the female foot mutilation, widow ‘suicides’ and marrying off/selling off little children). 

 

 

Edited November 14, 2023 by Cobie