Rudi Authentic Neigong

[Partez]

18 minutes ago, Pak_Satrio said:

Yes I’m starting to think the same. I have no problem with genuine skeptics, but when someone already has a huge bias that skews their view or just wants to be right then there is an issue. 

I'll keep an open mind up to the point where a child can spot someone is a fraud.  If you take an issue with that, it's on you.

Once someone is shown to be an obvious fraud, I say get the pitch forks out.  Trash is putting it nicely describing them, and you should be pissed if you wasted your time and money on them.

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

5 minutes ago, Partez said:

Honestly, who uses what is irrelevant because anyone connected to blatant con artists in any way are going to be either frauds, or well meaning people suckered in and perpetuating the BS.

Hearing about them electrocuting themselves just made the connection all the more blatant, but the moment I saw them do a coin vanish and the pyro stunt, as well as a lot of other parlor tricks, I mean, all I'll say is if you still have any trust in this organization then sooner or later your money will be gone anyway, so you might as well give it to them.

Anybody who isn't completely deluded can look at the evidence and decide for themselves. 

Mate you complain about parlour tricks yet you posted this video and said this is similar to what you do:

 

I don’t think you are in any position to judge what looks ridiculous or not. Why not ask Rudi what is going on in those videos instead of coming up to your own (wrong) conclusions. You already got the electrocution machines completely wrong and also thought the head of our lineage is in Thailand (he’s not). Why don’t you just be humble and take the opportunity to learn? Is it so important to be right all the time?

[Partez]

1 minute ago, Pak_Satrio said:

Mate you complain about parlour tricks yet you posted this video and said this is similar to what you do:

This is the type of thing that I do, but can you honestly not tell the difference between me and them?  Like the fact that I'm not lying out of my ass about how the phenomena is achieved. 

And if one day I do teach any of this, anyone I teach will be able to create the phenomena right away, and not after many years flailing their arms around in some made up ancient "system" these guys probably came up with between bowel movements.
 

 

3 minutes ago, Pak_Satrio said:

I don’t think you are in any position to judge what looks ridiculous or not. Why not ask Rudi what is going on in those videos instead of coming up to your own (wrong) conclusions. You already got the electrocution machines completely wrong and also thought the head of our lineage is in Thailand (he’s not). Why don’t you just be humble and take the opportunity to learn? Is it so important to be right all the time?

I give zero shits about what Rudi thinks right now.  Like I said, I'll keep an open mind until a CHILD can see someone is fooling them.
I'm sorry for you if you are still skeptical in any way about what's going on after seeing all of it, but it's a YOU problem now.  By all means, throw more money at them and waste more of your time.  It doesn't effect me in any way.

 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

42 minutes ago, Partez said:

And if one day I do teach any of this, anyone I teach will be able to create the phenomena right away, and not after many years flailing their arms around in some made up ancient "system" these guys probably came up with between bowel movements.

Ah yes, no bias at all there. Tell me why you are even on a forum called “The Dao Bums” if you think Daoist practices are a load of shit? 

 

42 minutes ago, Partez said:

It doesn't effect me in any way.

Yet you spend so much time trying to disprove it, to the point of buying a static machine.

[Giles]

In some systems, in which enlightenment & the end of sufferering are the goal, the pursuit of siddhis is considered to be a dead end...

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by Giles

[wandelaar]

Please! I was about to compliment ourselves yesterday on the civil way the discussion evolved. But not anymore. The most positive way to interpret the latest findings is that Rudi doesn't recognize a fundamental difference between using an electrical machine to charge oneself up and doing it all only by using nei gong. This opens up the option for him to both use a machine and to do nei gong in demonstrations and not seeing this as some form of fraud. I fear (but don't yet know for sure) that this is what we are about to find out is happening. The only way to rule it out is a well-controlled experiment. Mind you that the charging up by means of a machine might even have happened before the demonstration. So the test has to be well thought out, which I doubt Rudi would be willing to undergo given his comments earlier on.

Edited December 4, 2023 by wandelaar

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

19 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

Please! I was about to compliment ourselves yesterday on the civil way the discussion evolved. But not anymore. The most positive way to interpret the latest findings is that Rudi doesn't recognize a fundamental difference between using an electrical machine to charge oneself up and doing it all only by using nei gong. This opens up the option for him to both use a machine and to do nei gong in demonstrations and not seeing this as some form of fraud. I fear (but don't yet know for sure) that this is what we are about to find out is happening. The only way to rule it out is a well-controlled experiment. Mind you that the charging up by means of a machine might even have happened before the demonstration. So the test has to be well thought out, which I doubt Rudi would be willing to undergo given his comments earlier on.

As far as I know, the machine that the Italians use will not just let anyone be able to faqi. First you have to activate your lower dantien to be able to store the excess qi that you either generate yourself, or use this machine to insert electricity into your body. You still have to do the hard work of activating the dantien yourself which only comes from correct practice or if a high level master is able to activate your dantien for you. 
 

It’s not a case of anyone just using the machine and then they are able to faqi. But again, this could have been found out with a simple question: “How does this machine work?”. The machine is just a shortcut to accumulate “electric qi”. Or as Jiaoshi Andrea said, if you faqi while plugged into the machine, it allows you to use the electricity generated from the machine rather than using up your own qi. The reason for doing this could be if you are low on qi and need to finish up someone’s treatment, or simply because you don’t want to waste your own qi on someone else. It’s completely optional.

 

 

[GreatAutumn]

29 minutes ago, Pak_Satrio said:

the machine that the Italians use

And what machine exactly is that, why the secrecy? How do you guys know if your master actually is able to generate his qi rather than just taking it from a socket if the results are basically indistinguishable? As far as you guys know, he just uses this machine to get his results while telling you that you need decades to meditate and pay him money. 
And even if that's not the case, what is the difference as far as results go between getting internal electricity from meditation as opposed from getting it from a wall socket? Why would anyone waste decades on it when they can just plug in and get the same results?
At best this needs more transparency at worst it's kind of fishy

[小梦想]

I somehow replied twice, so I deleted this one. See the reply below.

Edited December 4, 2023 by 小梦想

[小梦想]

6 hours ago, Partez said:

So here Rudi is already being full of s*it imo.  It's obvious what he learned stems from this system, and the head teachers for this "system" is from Thailand.  So it's already admitted that the system does in fact use machines to electrocute themselves as part of the training, but Rudi is pleading ignorance of it.

Why?  I think so as not to associate the demonstration he made with the use of a machine, as it's becoming pretty clear by now that this is what's happening.

So you have the initial fraud confusing Westerners into giving him their money with magic tricks.  Then you have what I think are well meaning, but deluded people like this guy: https://www.youtube.com/@NeiQiGongJiaoshiAndrea/videos
 

Who bought into the system, and is being honest about his experiences, but isn't pretending that he has magical powers.

And then you have guys like Rudi, who decided, hey, I spent all this money on this thing, so I'll just adopt some magic tricks too and defraud others like the initial guy did.

That's my opinionated summary.  What do you think? 

Ill reply one last time as I feel this conversation will go on forever. You don't believe this is possible and that is fine, you are entitled to your opinions even if you get a lot of facts wrong and don't seem to have sufficient knowledge of physiology or physics or electrical engineering to understand why this is possible.

 

I mentioned a doctor who uses a machine to charge up his body and them emit it. The thai master you are speaking about is Master Luo, someone that Constantino studied with who openly uses a machine for both treatment and to enhance/speed up their training. We are not talking about the same person and I have never met Master Luo or used the machine that they use to enhance their training. 

We have discussed this many times in our monthly meetings with students and I have always been honest with them regarding the existence of these machines to help training. I just have never used them but have spoken about their uses and benefits with Constantino multiple times. It does seem to help open channels and speed up development but doesn't give you the ability to absorb and emit qi, that requires actual meditation in our system where the use of such devices isn't part of the practice.

Constantino can emit qi without the assistance of a machine beforehand because of his meditation and practice, they just use the machine to speed things along but the machine can never get to you his level of development on it's own. He is a fantastic, honest, kind and caring person who I really like a lot. 

Maybe if you leave you house, travel around, meet some teachers, visit the ones who openly uses machines, visits ones who don't and then you will realize there is a pretty big difference in how it feels. Sitting in your warrior chair doesn't give you the required experience to be able to discern the difference. 

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by 小梦想

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

6 minutes ago, GreatAutumn said:

And what machine exactly is that, why the secrecy? 

 

If I knew the exact brand and model, I would tell you and give you the Amazon link. But I don’t, so you will have to ask Sifu Constantino or Jiaoshi Andrea about that. Master Zhou, Rudi and all of his students don’t use the machine.

 

6 minutes ago, GreatAutumn said:

How do you guys know if your master actually is able to generate his qi rather than just taking it from a socket if the results are basically indistinguishable? As far as you guys know, he just uses this machine to get his results while telling you that you need decades to meditate and pay him money. 

 

Because Rudi and many of his students have spent countless hours with Master Zhou. If there was a machine they would have said so. 

 

6 minutes ago, GreatAutumn said:

And even if that's not the case, what is the difference as far as results go between getting internal electricity from meditation as opposed from getting it from a wall socket? Why would anyone waste decades on it when they can just plug in and get the same results?
At best this needs more transparency at worst it's kind of fishy

I don’t know if using the machine is as effective for treatment than using your own qi, you will have to ask Sifu Constantino or Jiaoshi Andrea.

[小梦想]

1 hour ago, wandelaar said:

Please! I was about to compliment ourselves yesterday on the civil way the discussion evolved. But not anymore. The most positive way to interpret the latest findings is that Rudi doesn't recognize a fundamental difference between using an electrical machine to charge oneself up and doing it all only by using nei gong. This opens up the option for him to both use a machine and to do nei gong in demonstrations and not seeing this as some form of fraud. I fear (but don't yet know for sure) that this is what we are about to find out is happening. The only way to rule it out is a well-controlled experiment. Mind you that the charging up by means of a machine might even have happened before the demonstration. So the test has to be well thought out, which I doubt Rudi would be willing to undergo given his comments earlier on.

I have up to today, never used a machine to charge myself up or to do any of the demonstrations that I posted online. I am not dishonest and certainly don't have the personality that allows me to openly cheat people.

 

The main issue for me with doing demonstrations in a controlled environment and posting it openly to the public is this:

 

1. I am not worried I can't do it or will be found out to be using some device, I can do with meditation ONLY the demonstrations you have seen so far. I have never needed to or used any machine to do any demonstrations and have never used the machine Master Luo uses. 

2. I just wanted to teach something which cost so much money and was only available to the rich before at a price and in a way that made these precious practices available to more people. The long term health benefits and foundation for higher level shen practices is incredible. Anyone who thinks improved health, vitality and mental state not being a worth while effect of this practice is missing the bigger picture.

3. If I do a demonstration and prove once and for all this stuff is real, it will attract an enormous amount of people and groups that I do not want as students. I don't think I really have to say much more here.

4. I don't want to be famous, I honestly don't want the attention, I don't want to be hounded by people, I don't want people showing up at my house demanding stuff. I am fine with the students I have now, and I am fine with the type of students I am getting. 

 

I have been thinking about this for the past 3 years and have been back and forth in my mind many times. We will most likely do some "prove it once and for all" controlled demonstrations but I am perfectly fine not being the one doing them. If it was me doing it, I will more than likely require them to blur our my face, not mention my name, etc. Some people will obviously know it's me, but most won't and that works for me.

 

People with their unwavering opinions will obviously somehow spin what I said above into me being a fraud and being scared of being found out and that is fine. Let them feel and think how they want to feel. 

[Partez]

2 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

Ah yes, no bias at all there. Tell me why you are even on a forum called “The Dao Bums” if you think Daoist practices are a load of shit? 

It's shameful to associate these frauds with other Daoist practices.  These scammers are an embarrassment to genuine school, with dedicated practitioners.  Why not ask these frauds and scammers what they are doing on a spiritual and philosophical forum, apart from trying to defraud and scam people.

This trash is leading people away from genuine schools.  It's leaving a bitter taste in the mouth of people towards all Daoist practices once they realize they have been scammed, if they are lucky enough to realize it.  Rudi is still here lying through his teeth, because lying is all these people have, and they certainly don't have any shame, so they deserve no civility.
 

 

2 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

Yet you spend so much time trying to disprove it, to the point of buying a static machine.

I bought the machine for my own amusement, and had my eye on it for a while, but the more you post, the more you are coming across as a shill for these people rather than someone who just did a seminar or two.  Now I have no idea if you are a shill, or just a puppet account of Rudi's, since anything is possible on the internet, but if you are a true believer, it's fascinating, and scary, how you bought into what I see as a blatant fraud.

His video was sus, but I could keep an open mind about it, but the moment I saw the "master" doing well known magic tricks (poorly) it wasn't even a question in my mind anymore as the fish rots from the head.

I sincerely hope you don't represent all of Daoism, and that there are people with more level heads.  Actually, I know for a fact there are people like that, thankfully.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Partez

[dino]

4 minutes ago, Partez said:

It's shameful to associate these frauds with other Daoist practices.  These scammers are an embarrassment to genuine school, with dedicated practitioners.  Why not ask these frauds and scammers what they are doing on a spiritual and philosophical forum, apart from trying to defraud and scam people.

This trash is leading people away from genuine schools.  It's leaving a bitter taste in the mouth of people towards all Daoist practices once they realize they have been scammed, if they are lucky enough to realize it.  Rudi is still here lying through his teeth, because lying is all these people have, and they certainly don't have any shame, so they deserve no civility.
 

 

I bought the machine for my own amusement, and had my eye on it for a while, but the more you post, the more you are coming across as a shill for these people rather than someone who just did a seminar or two.  Now I have no idea if you are a shill, or just a puppet account of Rudi's, since anything is possible on the internet, but if you are a true believer, it's fascinating, and scary, how you bought into what I see as a blatant fraud.

His video was sus, but I could keep an open mind about it, but the moment I saw the "master" doing well known magic tricks (poorly) it wasn't even a question in my mind anymore as the fish rots from the head.

I sincerely hope you don't represent all of Daoism, and that there are people with more level heads.  Actually, I know for a fact there are people like that, thankfully.

magic trick hahaha,breaking granite block with his fingers...

 

 

[小梦想]

1 hour ago, GreatAutumn said:

And what machine exactly is that, why the secrecy? How do you guys know if your master actually is able to generate his qi rather than just taking it from a socket if the results are basically indistinguishable? As far as you guys know, he just uses this machine to get his results while telling you that you need decades to meditate and pay him money. 
And even if that's not the case, what is the difference as far as results go between getting internal electricity from meditation as opposed from getting it from a wall socket? Why would anyone waste decades on it when they can just plug in and get the same results?
At best this needs more transparency at worst it's kind of fishy

There is no secrecy, we don't use the machine so I don't know the exact name.

 

What I do know is the machine is pretty bulky, and requires you to hold onto some electrode and I believe the person you are pushing the electricity into holds onto some grounding pipe. It's done openly, it's not a secret or something hidden in their system.

 

The results of real faqi and using a machine as miles apart if you know the difference and have felt both. To a newby, it would be hard to tell any difference.

 

Getting the current externally from a machine helps to open channels and it speeds up the process a tiny bit. It still takes years and years of meditation alongside the machine to be able to generate and store enough of your own qi to be able to do anything without the machine.

 

Finally, sometimes you just have to take the risk. I certainly took a risk flying out to china, searching for all these teachers and trying to learn. Some turned out to be dead ends, some turned out to fakes, some used machines secretly, others didn't but would never teach past a certain level. It's always a risk you take. Call them out and disrespect them and you might find a con artist at best, at worst you had a real teacher and ruined you chances of ever learning from them.

 

Some people seem to think they are special and entitled and a master should prove themselves to the amazing, world changing student who not only deserves these teachings for free, but also deserves a master to bend over backwards with their demands. Put yourself in a teachers shoes, especially if they aren't using tricks or machines, if they are the real deal. Why would you care about these kinds of potential problems/students trying to call you out when you did nothing except offer something real. 

Edited December 4, 2023 by 小梦想

[dino]

 

[Partez]

6 minutes ago, dino said:

magic trick hahaha,breaking granite block with his fingers...

How do you know what it is, where it was made, how it's been treated.  There are countless ways to fake brake stones, but by all means, for anybody thinking of wasting your time and money on these "gurus", go out and get some proper granite and have them break it, but I predict when you offer it, their chi will be off, or they will show you another demonstration that they have prepared.

As for the second video, it is what Rudi shows also, and is exactly how the machine that I ordered works.  At around the 1:15 min mark:
 

 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

31 minutes ago, Partez said:

It's shameful to associate these frauds with other Daoist practices.  These scammers are an embarrassment to genuine school, with dedicated practitioners.  Why not ask these frauds and scammers what they are doing on a spiritual and philosophical forum, apart from trying to defraud and scam people.

This trash is leading people away from genuine schools.  It's leaving a bitter taste in the mouth of people towards all Daoist practices once they realize they have been scammed, if they are lucky enough to realize it.  Rudi is still here lying through his teeth, because lying is all these people have, and they certainly don't have any shame, so they deserve no civility.

 

And what is your evidence of this? Do you practice any neigong? Have you experienced faqi? Do you know what you are talking about or are you just making assumptions?

 

 

31 minutes ago, Partez said:

I bought the machine for my own amusement, and had my eye on it for a while, but the more you post, the more you are coming across as a shill for these people rather than someone who just did a seminar or two.  Now I have no idea if you are a shill, or just a puppet account of Rudi's, since anything is possible on the internet, but if you are a true believer, it's fascinating, and scary, how you bought into what I see as a blatant fraud.

 

 

Now you are being a paranoid conspiracy theorist.

 

31 minutes ago, Partez said:

His video was sus, but I could keep an open mind about it, but the moment I saw the "master" doing well known magic tricks (poorly) it wasn't even a question in my mind anymore as the fish rots from the head.

I sincerely hope you don't represent all of Daoism, and that there are people with more level heads.  Actually, I know for a fact there are people like that, thankfully.

Well I wish you all the best in your practice then.

[GreatAutumn]

29 minutes ago, 小梦想 said:

Getting the current externally from a machine helps to open channels and it speeds up the process a tiny bit. It still takes years and years of meditation alongside the machine to be able to generate and store enough of your own qi to be able to do anything without the machine.

You literally said a few posts ago that "I know of doctors in thailand who use a machine to charge themselves up, then emit the electricity into people as we do with faqi. The store the energy in their gut and use intention, breath and muscle activation to push the energy out. When they are empty they go back to the machine to charge themselves back up again"
And also : "The above mentioned doctor can do that, you will not find an electrical device on him and he can hold onto that charge for weeks and run a current for quite some time"
So it's not just a "tiny bit" of help, it can literally charge you up to the point of emitting it outside, and you can hold that charge for weeks. 
Also about your master, who exactly is he? Ok, so he has some nice videos of him doing stuff on youtube but of what lineage is he part of, what type of neidan does he teach, who are the patriarchs of the lineage? At least previous people that made such claims provided some background to their school, this is all based on youtube videos of questionable feats.

[dino]

34 minutes ago, Partez said:

How do you know what it is, where it was made, how it's been treated.  There are countless ways to fake brake stones, but by all means, for anybody thinking of wasting your time and money on these "gurus", go out and get some proper granite and have them break it, but I predict when you offer it, their chi will be off, or they will show you another demonstration that they have prepared.

As for the second video, it is what Rudi shows also, and is exactly how the machine that I ordered works.  At around the 1:15 min mark:
 

 

37:34 nice story about granite rocks.if you are interested

Edited December 4, 2023 by dino

[小梦想]

25 minutes ago, GreatAutumn said:

So it's not just a "tiny bit" of help, it can literally charge you up to the point of emitting it outside, and you can hold that charge for weeks. 

That is a different machine and they are not part of a neigong lineage, they just use this machine for medical purposes, but even with this machine, it's still years and years of them running current into their body opening channels or electric lines and slowly training their body to hold onto the energy in their gut. It's not something you can just do overnight and from what I understand, it's a pretty painful process the first few years.

ALSO, i said it's takes years and years of actual meditation to be able TO DO ANYTHING WITHOUT THE MACHINE. Please read.

This is my point, you guys hear machine and all of a sudden they are all the same. These machines are completely different in function, in how they look, why they are used. Challenging me as if I was caught in a lie because you don't know the full picture but assume you do. So many assumptions, so many wrong conclusions. It's why I don't like to post on here or take part in discussions.

 

25 minutes ago, GreatAutumn said:

Also about your master, who exactly is he? Ok, so he has some nice videos of him doing stuff on youtube but of what lineage is he part of, what type of neidan does he teach, who are the patriarchs of the lineage? At least previous people that made such claims provided some background to their school, this is all based on youtube videos of questionable feats.

Again, this is something some people will take as some sort of dodgy thing. He doesn't want his information or lineage online, so we don't post it. You will think it's some dodgy reason but the reason is perfectly understandable, it's just not something I wish to post online as it can have repercussions for me.

 

The information about me and what I teach is on my website and youtube videos. If it's not enough for you, move on, I certainly am not trying to convince anyone to learn from me. I just responded to this thread which was specifically about me to clear some things up.

I feel like I have said enough now and I won't be participating in this thread anymore. Make all the wrong assumptions and conclusions you guys want and accuse me of being a fraud from your home. Don't bother travelling and meeting different teachers, doing some actual investigation. But i guess finding the truth first hand is too expensive, not cheap to fly here and there, and a sofa is way more comfortable. All the best guys.

Edited December 4, 2023 by 小梦想

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

This is why we can’t have nice things 😂😂😂

[Partez]

32 minutes ago, GreatAutumn said:

You literally said a few posts ago that "I know of doctors in thailand who use a machine to charge themselves up, then emit the electricity into people as we do with faqi. The store the energy in their gut and use intention, breath and muscle activation to push the energy out. When they are empty they go back to the machine to charge themselves back up again"
And also : "The above mentioned doctor can do that, you will not find an electrical device on him and he can hold onto that charge for weeks and run a current for quite some time"
So it's not just a "tiny bit" of help, it can literally charge you up to the point of emitting it outside, and you can hold that charge for weeks. 
Also about your master, who exactly is he? Ok, so he has some nice videos of him doing stuff on youtube but of what lineage is he part of, what type of neidan does he teach, who are the patriarchs of the lineage? At least previous people that made such claims provided some background to their school, this is all based on youtube videos of questionable feats.

They are just lying again. 

The practice is described here:  https://acupuncturetoday.com/article/32826-electric-qigong-an-ancient-therapy-evolves

So you literally pump electricity through your body and then into the patient, and from what Andrea describes, it is also given as an "advanced" practice to electrocute yourself (what fun)

I'll just take a moment here and remind everyone that being able to electrocute yourself hasn't been around for that long.  it isn't some ancient system of Daoism. 

On Andrea's site you can read all about the "masters" and probably go on an even deeper dive if you are so inclined into their history: https://www.neiqigongjiaoshiandrea.com/masters

You can see they are all connected.  Just a bunch of con men working together, sharing tricks and ideas, and propping each other up.

 

[Partez]

Just going through Andrea's videos, and it seems pretty sad.  I believe he is a genuine seeker that just got conned, because he speaks so honestly about things without a filter.  In this video he gives away that most of the "energy" demonstrations these fakes use is just your typical reiki type stuff:
 

It's most likely because they can't be bothered to wear the device all the time, and risk getting caught with it, so most of the time they only do the "subtle" energy on the people they defraud, and leave the "shocking" demonstrations for "special" occasions (when they have all their equipment ready)

Edited December 4, 2023 by Partez

[senseless virtue]

7 minutes ago, Partez said:

In this video he gives away that most of the "energy" demonstrations these fakes use is just your typical "reiki" type stuff:

 

Out of curiosity and to measure the credibility of your speech:

 

How many Reiki healers have you counseled personally and what have been your experiences?

 

Why you feel qualified to comment on Reiki as if its methodology was in any way comparable to what is taught and practiced in Chinese Neigong?