Rudi Authentic Neigong

[GreatAutumn]

4 minutes ago, Pak_Satrio said:

Notice how they ignore the much affordable option I provided since it doesn’t fit their argument.

That option is ignored because it's not part of your school nor is it in any way indicative of whether this system is legit or just a scam.  The head of the school asking for large sums of money to ""heal"" or to accelerate the energetic progress of his students is very relevant though. Also, the sufi guy you went to is open about charging himself from a socket if I read some threads here correctly.

[Vajra Fist]

Crikey, surprised we've got to eight pages already. 

 

Once again, the debate over whether its physically possible to shoot electricity out of your fingers. 

 

For what it's worth, I attended a seminar with Rudi and found him to be a genuinely lovely bloke.

 

He was in Ukraine at the time, at the start of the war, and Russian tanks were moving in. His partner was constantly worried about needing to evacuate but he hung on, committed to ensuring we knew everything we needed to before he bolted. 

 

But I didn't stick with it. Unfortunately, I don't believe this skill is particularly useful, at least in the wider scheme of things.

 

But I can vouch for his character: I don't believe he'd purposefully deceive people. I've never been zapped personally, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. 

 

But whether that's something worth investing your time and energy into, is a different question.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Vajra Fist

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

4 minutes ago, Partez said:

Forget about feeling.  Feelings are subjective.  What Rudi demonstrates is influencing physical objects with his "energy".  I can guarantee you will never be able to achieve this following their system without "assistance".

 

And what makes you so certain? You are already wrong since people have already achieved this without assistance. Again, another claim without any evidence. It’s just your opinion which you present as fact.

 

How about this then? I guarantee then that the “hypnotism” that you do is nothing but your delusion and everyone just plays along with it to entertain you. How would you prove me wrong?

 

4 minutes ago, Partez said:

There was a time to do this, but again, once you see magic tricks a child can see through, it's impossible not to just laugh at these frauds. 

And don't forget about the people they scammed.  They deserve no civility.  They ARE trash, and that's putting it lightly.
 

 

Ah it’s becoming a broken record at this point. Please hypnotise yourself to come up with a better argument. 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

4 minutes ago, GreatAutumn said:

That option is ignored because it's not part of your school nor is it in any way indicative of whether this system is legit or just a scam.  

 

Actually it literally is one of our core practices that Rudi decided to teach people for free. But again, you would have known that if you asked @liminal_luke or others about it instead of jumping to your already biased conclusion as you’ve been doing this entire thread.

 

4 minutes ago, GreatAutumn said:

The head of the school asking for large sums of money to ""heal"" or to accelerate the energetic progress of his students is very relevant though. 

Of course it would be great if it was cheaper. We can both agree on that. It could be a high price because the ingredients for the medicine is expensive or rare. It could be because the time and effort to make that medicine is long and difficult. It could be because not many people can do what Master Zhou can do so there is a high demand for it. It could be a high price to put off time wasters or people going just for the thrill of it. I don’t know his reasons, but no one is forced to go. You can do the practices and get the same results eventually, it will just take longer. If I could go, I would. If you want to know what it was like on those trips, ask @dino, he went on the last one and posted a video about it earlier.

 

4 minutes ago, GreatAutumn said:

Also, the sufi guy you went to is open about charging himself from a socket if I read some threads here correctly.

 

When I went to see him there were no machines, it was years after those posts. He said he doesn’t need to charge himself from the sockets anymore and can do it all from his practices. I’m not even sure what it means about charging himself from the wall, if any machines were used, any wires were involved or he stuck his fingers into it or licked the sockets or whatever. What he does is silat, not neigong so I don’t know the inner workings of that system. If you want to know more, ask his student Santiago Dobles, his email is on the KAP website, he will know more than me. 
 

[Partez]

21 minutes ago, Vajra Fist said:

Crikey, surprised we've got to eight pages already. 

 

Once again, the debate over whether its physically possible to shoot electricity out of your fingers. 

 

For what it's worth, I attended a seminar with Rudi and found him to be a genuinely lovely bloke.

 

He was in Ukraine at the time, at the start of the war, and Russian tanks were moving in. His partner was constantly worried about needing to evacuate but he hung on, committed to ensuring we knew everything we needed to before he bolted. 

 

But I didn't stick with it. Unfortunately, I don't believe this skill is particularly useful, at least in the wider scheme of things.

 

But I can vouch for his character: I don't believe he'd purposefully deceive people. I've never been zapped personally, but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. 

 

But whether that's something worth investing your time and energy into, is a different question.

Well your judgment of character is off because he is a fraud, he does deceive people.  Since the whole system is fraudulent at some point he did strap a device to himself and filmed that video of moving physical objects around.

And stop talking about getting zapped.  HE MOVED PHYSICAL OBJECTS WITH HIS "ENERGY".  Focus on that, and not a subjective feeling you might experience.

The skill isn't useful, because there's nothing there to achieve.  It's fake.

This isn't a debate about it being possible,  it's a conclusion that these guys can't do it.

Also FYI, the only reason people go to Ukraine is for the sex tourism.  Not gonna judge on this one, but you might get a little pissed off since he was doing it on your dime.  He was such a nice guy after all, so he deserves your money I guess.

Edited December 4, 2023 by Partez

[Sahaja]

As a follow up to my comment on seeing something familiar before to the method Rudy used. I found the reference I was thinking of  but it might be different than what Rudy is doing so apologies if that’s the case -  it’s called Zhen Fa - a type of Qi emission used by a TCM practitioner to treat a patient called vibrating shaking chi.  Patients reaction was similar to other videos posted as was the method by the person applying it (pushing the chi down his arm into the patient and the patient’s muscle’s contracting) . Apparently there are 16 types of qi emissions that can be used by medical practitioners. It’s presented as an example of a tool that can be usedin a descriptive manner in the video. Not as an ad. Couldn’t figure out how to link the video but it’s on Internal Arts Academy Facebook page - search for acupuncture. Posted in 2020.
 

As I said before, I believe  qi emission is something that can be developed. I don’t think you will get a job at a shipyard as an arc welder with it -lol-  but it definitely is a tool with a purpose. Actually the more mysterious part to me is getting the energy to the right point to be medically useful without injuring the patient. 
 

 

[Maddie]

There is a story that one time the Buddha was on a river bank with some of his followers and he came across a yogi that informed the Buddha that he had just walked across the water of the river to get to where he was now. The Buddha asked him how long it took him to accomplish this feat to which the yogi responded 20 years.  To that the Buddha replied that he just took the boat and it took him 20 minutes.

 

 

[Partez]

22 minutes ago, Pak_Satrio said:

And what makes you so certain? You are already wrong since people have already achieved this without assistance. Again, another claim without any evidence. It’s just your opinion which you present as fact.

 

How about this then? I guarantee then that the “hypnotism” that you do is nothing but your delusion and everyone just plays along with it to entertain you. How would you prove me wrong?

Because their whole system is lead by frauds, the only thing to conclude is he is also a fraud.  What he showed already look fraudulent, but seeing the "masters" at the top pretty much made it blatant that he is using "assistance" to achieve the effect.

Again, the effect is identical to how the static machine works.  It is THE effect.  It might not be the same machine, because people even built these themselves, but that's what's going on.

As for hypnosis, that's exactly what many people believe, and even after being hypnotised their logical mind will justify it in some way as them deciding to do it.  This is both true and not at the end of the day, and if you want to learn about hypnosis I recommend doing a course in it, but it does say something about the human minds capacity to justify our choices and beliefs to the contrary of all the evidence out there.

[Vajra Fist]

3 minutes ago, Partez said:

Because their whole system is lead by frauds, the only thing to conclude is he is also a fraud

 

It's not a big deal though, surely? He's not claiming that his system is going to bring you to enlightenment, or make you rich or more attractive.

 

If you want to give off static electricity to people, then honestly fair play. If you can tune your energetic system so that you can achieve that, then that's a phenomenal skill. Also fairly reasonable in fact, given that it's in line with the classic stories of energy masters. 

 

But honestly, I'd rather train myself to piss high enough to blast the neighbour's cat off my fence. That's a more useful skill personally, as my dog always goes mental when he sees that cat.

 

In other words, faqi, like most other siddhis, are worldly skills. It might improve your health, but probably not as much as going to the gym regularly. It might bring peace, but probably not as much as equivalent time on the cushion.

 

If people want to do this, and believe they can, then just let them. Whether they can or not has little to no bearing on our lives.

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

33 minutes ago, Vajra Fist said:

For what it's worth, I attended a seminar with Rudi and found him to be a genuinely lovely bloke.

 

He was in Ukraine at the time, at the start of the war, and Russian tanks were moving in. His partner was constantly worried about needing to evacuate but he hung on, committed to ensuring we knew everything we needed to before he bolted. 

Ah yes, I was at that same seminar too! It was crazy, we could hear the explosions in the background but Rudi still kept calm and did the full seminar until the end. 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

15 minutes ago, Partez said:

Well your judgment of character is off because he is a fraud, he does deceive people.  Since the whole system is fraudulent at some point he did strap a device to himself and filmed that video of moving physical objects around.

And stop talking about getting zapped.  HE MOVED PHYSICAL OBJECTS WITH HIS "ENERGY".  Focus on that, and not a subjective feeling you might experience.

The skill isn't useful, because there's nothing there to achieve.  It's fake.

This isn't a debate about it being possible,  it's a conclusion that these guys can't do it.

Also FYI, the only reason people go to Ukraine is for the sex tourism.  Not gonna judge on this one, but you might get a little pissed off since he was doing it on your dime.  He was such a nice guy after all, so he deserves your money I guess.

Jesus Christ, this is out of line. His partner is Ukranian and they met in China before moving to Ukraine. Honestly I’m not going to even reply to anything you say anymore because clearly you are unhinged.

[小梦想]

1 hour ago, Partez said:

Also FYI, the only reason people go to Ukraine is for the sex tourism.  Not gonna judge on this one, but you might get a little pissed off since he was doing it on your dime.  He was such a nice guy after all, so he deserves your money I guess.

Another fact which is already way passed slandering/libel/defamation with zero evidence as most of your posts have been. I have reported your post and will get a lawyer involved. You can't just keep talking trash with zero proof and this was one post too far.

 

I was in Ukraine because my mother in law had passed away and I was supporting my wife. 

I suggest you google what slandering is and take a look at the legal ramifications associated with presenting opinion as fact harming an individual or business. 

Edited December 4, 2023 by 小梦想

[liminal_luke]

48 minutes ago, Partez said:

It seems like sooner or later you might have signed up to this guy.  Is your mind not changed a little after seeing what I showed?
 

 

Of course my mind is not changed.  I'm going by my own experience having actually taken a class, not by your experience having watched a video and having an opinion about it.  I consider myself a good judge of character. To me, the faqi thing is neither here nor there.  It's interesting, amazing even, but if I joined Rudi's group it would be because I'm interested in learning neigong and seeing how far his training might take me.  If the training resulted in my being able to zap people, well cool -- especially if I could use the zapping for healing purposes.  But I'm older and not in the best health so I don't think I'll be doing any zaps anytime soon.  That's OK.  Who knows what other less flashy but just as life changing benefits the practice might bring?

 

I may yet sign up for his training; it's on my mind.  The reason I don't is that my plate is full with other practices that I'm committed to for now.

 

 

[小梦想]

33 minutes ago, Partez said:

Well your judgment of character is off because he is a fraud, he does deceive people.  Since the whole system is fraudulent at some point he did strap a device to himself and filmed that video of moving physical objects around.

And stop talking about getting zapped.  HE MOVED PHYSICAL OBJECTS WITH HIS "ENERGY".  Focus on that, and not a subjective feeling you might experience.

The skill isn't useful, because there's nothing there to achieve.  It's fake.

This isn't a debate about it being possible,  it's a conclusion that these guys can't do it.

Also FYI, the only reason people go to Ukraine is for the sex tourism.  Not gonna judge on this one, but you might get a little pissed off since he was doing it on your dime.  He was such a nice guy after all, so he deserves your money I guess.

Just wanted to get a copy of this before you go and make changes.

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

38 minutes ago, Sahaja said:

Couldn’t figure out how to link the video but it’s on Internal Arts Academy Facebook page - search for acupuncture. Posted in 2020.

Please can you post the URL? It sounds interesting 

[小梦想]

7 hours ago, Partez said:

I don't think you understand what I'm trying to say.

I'm just observing the inner workings of the scam now through his videos.

So they do the big show demonstrations a few times to convince people, then once they hook someone, they probably don't want to have the gimmick on their body constantly, or constantly be pumping electricity through themselves.

So they probably tell their new student something along the lines of, well, for your stage of progress you require a more subtle energy etc. etc. some other BS.

Are you getting it, or not yet?  I'm deducting how they most likely process the people they hook in.

 

7 hours ago, Partez said:

I don't even understand.  My attitude has nothing to do with reality.  Rudi may be the nicest, soft spoken, proper spelling person, but he's still a piece of shit fraudster wasting people's time and money, so I'd recommend expanding your ideas about judging someone's character.  If you look at interviews about psychopaths, they often talk about how well mannered and proper they were.  Just saying.

 

7 hours ago, Partez said:

Frauds deserve to be attacked, shamed and ridiculed.  I was still on the fence until I saw the "masters" of the system in action.

But at some point it's just so blatant that there's just no argument.

Remind me what you said that I found asinine?  Maybe it deserved it maybe not.

 

7 hours ago, Partez said:

That would be expected because the only way the people teaching this system can achieve it is through magic tricks.

They show you the cool stuff so you sign up, and then it becomes all about how this isn't the real goal of the practice, and how you need more subtle energy right now.

The real reason is to be a magician you need a bit of set up, so you can't be expected to perform all the magic tricks at all times.  (too draining on the chi)

So in the end you pay through the nose for some mediocre diet and health advice, and some mediocre Qi Gong practice that was probably copied from somewhere.  At best.

The worst part, is you are giving that money away to shitty, fraudulent people.

 

[小梦想]

7 hours ago, Partez said:

I don't even understand.  My attitude has nothing to do with reality.  Rudi may be the nicest, soft spoken, proper spelling person, but he's still a piece of shit fraudster wasting people's time and money, so I'd recommend expanding your ideas about judging someone's character.  If you look at interviews about psychopaths, they often talk about how well mannered and proper they were.  Just saying.

 

[小梦想]

17 hours ago, Partez said:

So here Rudi is already being full of s*it imo.  It's obvious what he learned stems from this system, and the head teachers for this "system" is from Thailand.  So it's already admitted that the system does in fact use machines to electrocute themselves as part of the training, but Rudi is pleading ignorance of it.

Why?  I think so as not to associate the demonstration he made with the use of a machine, as it's becoming pretty clear by now that this is what's happening.

So you have the initial fraud confusing Westerners into giving him their money with magic tricks.  Then you have what I think are well meaning, but deluded people like this guy: https://www.youtube.com/@NeiQiGongJiaoshiAndrea/videos
 

 

Who bought into the system, and is being honest about his experiences, but isn't pretending that he has magical powers.

And then you have guys like Rudi, who decided, hey, I spent all this money on this thing, so I'll just adopt some magic tricks too and defraud others like the initial guy did.

That's my opinionated summary.  What do you think? 

 

15 hours ago, Partez said:

These guys are frauds and trash, so how about some good faith towards me for saving some people lots of their time and money.  (and a donation to my sex cult perhaps?)

 

14 hours ago, Partez said:

Honestly, who uses what is irrelevant because anyone connected to blatant con artists in any way are going to be either frauds, or well meaning people suckered in and perpetuating the BS.

Hearing about them electrocuting themselves just made the connection all the more blatant, but the moment I saw them do a coin vanish and the pyro stunt, as well as a lot of other parlor tricks, I mean, all I'll say is if you still have any trust in this organization then sooner or later your money will be gone anyway, so you might as well give it to them.

Anybody who isn't completely deluded can look at the evidence and decide for themselves. 

 

If you are wondering why your posts have been summarized and saved, you won't be wondering too much longer. Expect a call over the next few weeks.

Edited December 4, 2023 by 小梦想

[Shugyo]

Drops the mic...

[Taoist Texts]

39 minutes ago, 小梦想 said:

might actually get a lawyer involved.

well there are good news and bad news.

1. any lawyer who would take your retainer would be stringing you on because such a lawsuit is not feasible nor legally nor practically. thats good news because not getting strung is always good

2. despite agreeing with that guy about the major delusion you entertain, i support giving him a time out because he overdid it on insults. thats bad news on account of me being pro-free-speech so i feel bad

[小梦想]

23 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

well there are good news and bad news.

1. any lawyer who would take your retainer would be stringing you on because such a lawsuit is not feasible nor legally nor practically. thats good news because not getting strung is always good

Good thing my best friends wife is a lawyer then isn't it. Again, I suggest you look up slander/libel/defamation, actually, I will do you one better, I will quote it and just for fun, show some payouts. 

 

What slander/libel/defamation is 

Defamation includes slander and libel. Libel is the act of defaming another person through writings, such as newspapers, other publications, articles, blogs or social media postings. Slander is the act of making a false oral statement about the character or professional standing of another person.

 

The requirements for slander, I think they have been met.

To prove prima facie defamation, a plaintiff must show four things: 1) a false statement purporting to be fact; 2) publication or communication of that statement to a third person; 3) fault amounting to at least negligence; and 4) damages, or some harm caused to the reputation of the person or entity who is the subject of the statement.

 

Recent Libel Damages awards.
In the case of Triad Group Plc v Makar [2020] EWHC 306 (QB) allegations published on Twitter about the claimant being involved in serious criminal activity were held to be both defamatory and had caused significant serious harm. In addition, the claimant brought a claim of harassment against the defendant which was also held to be serious. The claimant was awarded the sum of £60,000 in damages in relation to the libel and an additional £65,000 damages award in relation to the harassment claim.

 

In Gilham v MGN Ltd [2020] EWHC 2217 (QB) a teacher was reported incorrectly as having been found guilty of misconduct following a regulatory hearing. The allegation of misconduct related to physical assault against a primary school age child which was very serious. This had an impact upon his professional reputation. The article was printed in national newspapers as well as online. The claimant accepted an offer of amends. The final award by the court was £49,000, however in this matter less than 50% was deducted from the award based on the conduct of the defendants.

 

In Turley v Unite the union [2019] EWHC 3547 (QB) a claimant had been awarded the sum of £75,000 following trial. The claimant brought an action against the defendant who alleged online that there were reasonable grounds to suspect that he had been dishonest and fraudulently joined the trade union in order to vote in its leadership election. The defendant continued to publish the article without apology. There was an aggravated damages sum awarded, although not separately in respect of the defendant’s conduct at trial claiming the claimant was dishonest without merit. The allegations were serious, amounting to criminal behaviour although the meaning of the publication was not of guilt, rather ‘reasonable grounds to suspect’. The libel was against a Member of Parliament and the matter involved political persuasion which added to the seriousness, thus the damages award.

 

In Doyle v smith [2019] EMLR 347 a defendant alleged there were good reasons to suspect the claimant of fraud and reasonable grounds to suspect him guilty of blackmail and sending malicious communications in two publications. The defendant argued only 242 had viewed the first article and less the second therefore damages should be restricted. Following trial and no offer of amends, the claimant was awarded £37,500.

 

In Fentiman v Marsh [2019] EWHC 2099 (QB) a CEO of a company issued proceedings against a defendant who claimed he had illegally hacked its website and social media pages. There was evidence the allegations had spread, known as ‘grapevine dissemination’, additional publications taking place directly as a result of the publication by the defendant therefore increasing the extent of publication. Following trial an award of £55,000 was attained which included £10,000 aggravated damages.

 

Edited December 4, 2023 by 小梦想
Grammar

[silent thunder]

Seems about time for partez to exit the party.  @steve @Trunk anyone have eyes on this thread?

[小梦想]

24 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

 

2. despite agreeing with that guy about the major delusion you entertain, i support giving him a time out because he overdid it on insults. thats bad news on account of me being pro-free-speech so i feel bad

You are just butthurt because your years of reading led to nothing but a sad, miserable existence where you get off on trying to upset random strangers on the internet with, what you believe to be, funny, intelligent digs. 

The only delusion here is your thinking you know real internal alchemy, but have a good day anyway.

Edited December 4, 2023 by 小梦想

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

6 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

Seems about time for partez to exit the party.  @steve @Trunk anyone have eyes on this thread?

I also reported it

[liminal_luke]

44 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

Seems about time for partez to exit the party.  @steve @Trunk anyone have eyes on this thread?

 

I already reported him, as did Rudi, I believe.  I was thinking maybe a one or two week suspension would do the trick, but hey, a libel suit -- that works too.

 

(Later edit: On the other hand, we all have to live with the good and bad of our own personalities; for some, that's punishment aplenty.)

Edited December 4, 2023 by liminal_luke