Rudi Authentic Neigong

[GreatAutumn]

11 minutes ago, Uncle Fester said:

You fall for your own assumptions and take them as truth instead

Well, the facts are as follows:
-the master used to sell the devices used to fake these "qi" demonstrations
-the grandmaster can clearly be seen performing magic tricks in a lot of the videos
-affiliated school uses electronic device to charge themselves up
-master of the school admits there are ways to charge yourself up from a socket, it's exactly the same as a qi zapp but pinky swears he never did it tho
- the name of the school and the lineage is ""secret""
-this is supposedly an ancient secret technique that very few in the world know but they sell it for $50 a month and advertise it on tik-tok.
-I assume most of the students can't electrocute anyone, but a few very "special" ones do.(this is a classical one, get some of your guys to be part of the audience to make it look more believable, all the performers do this)
-they ask for large sums of money from their students in order to receive "healing" or to "advance their progress"
-they claim the most beneficial qi they can give is the one that doesn't give any sensations and keep the electric one just for special occasions 
-they claim they got qi electricity running through themselves and yet they say they get sick just like everybody else when electricity has been proven to kill viruses and bacteria, so someone actually supercharged should probably never or very rarely get sick https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.03.13.991067v1.full
-You're telling me China has superhuman people that can kill with a touch and they just let them openly teach to anybody this secret knowledge? They were all up in the Falun dafa business but people that can set fire with their qi and electrocute with their bare hands are just allowed to roam the world free while posting their exploits on youtube and tik-tok?
"EDuCaTe yOuRsElF sWeAtY" doesn't really cut it as a response, this sounds fishy af and you sound like you're experiencing cognitive dissonance full on as the inconsistencies and "coincidences" keep piling up. Maybe at some point you'll look at all this and stop coming up with excuses for them, because that's what has been happening so far.
But that's enough for tonight, or I might get sued for wrong think or get accused of trolling

[Sanity Check]

5 hours ago, Nintendao said:

MMA. How much does a ticket to one of those matches cost? Sure it's not technically a scam, but maybe even worse, to exploit the potentially addictive adrenaline rush associated with witnessing violence. 

 

 

Its not about violence.

 

The type of risk, pressure and sacrifice associated with competing in a sport like MMA.

 

Brings out the best and worst in people.

 

Its a good platform for showcasing bravery, work ethic, cleverness and greatness.

 

 

[HumanElectric]

1 hour ago, wandelaar said:

 

What do you mean by "mere suggestion"? Did you try hypnosis before so as to be able to compare the effects of the two procedures?

No.

 

Are you suggesting the dozen or so people that were in the room with me receiving treatment, or the hundreds, if not thousands that join these medical seminars, also need to have tried hypnosis beforehand, so as to be able to compare the effects of the two procedures? And if none of us did, it invalidates our objective experiences?

Edited December 7, 2023 by HumanElectric

[S:C]

4 minutes ago, HumanElectric said:

if none of us did, it invalidates our objective experiences?

Why on earth should any experience of an individual or a group be able to claim "objectivity" for themselves?! 

What exactly is your definition of "objectivity", if I may ask?

(I don't confirm or deny any other claims on this thread.)

[Maddie]

24 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

 

 

Its not about violence.

 

The type of risk, pressure and sacrifice associated with competing in a sport like MMA.

 

Brings out the best and worst in people.

 

Its a good platform for showcasing bravery, work ethic, cleverness and greatness.

 

 

 

Yes absolutely but one thing that MMA has given us is the breaking through delusions in martial arts aspect. It settled all the "my flying butterfly fireball out my butt attack can defeat your moth lips kiss of death attack" nonsense. In MMA if it works under pressure testing then it proves itself. If it does not work it helps us to recognize what is ineffective. 

[Maddie]

1 minute ago, S:C said:

Why on earth should any experience of an individual or a group be able to claim "objectivity" for themselves?! 

What exactly is your definition of "objectivity", if I may ask?

(I don't confirm or deny any other claims on this thread.)

 

Objective measurements are measurements that are not subjective. Anyone can take them and get the same results under the same conditions. Anyone taking room temperature using a thermometer is going to get the same result if they use it correctly, regardless of who measures it. 

[Cobie]

10 minutes ago, HumanElectric said:

Are you suggesting the dozen or so people that were in the room with me receiving treatment, or the hundreds, if not thousands that join these medical seminars, also need to have tried hypnosis beforehand, so as to be able to compare the effects of the two procedures? And if none of us did, it invalidates our objective experiences?

Red herring.

 

The question was:

1 hour ago, wandelaar said:

What do you mean by "mere suggestion"? …

 

 

Edited December 7, 2023 by Cobie

[S:C]

2 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

Objective measurements are measurements that are not subjective. Anyone can take them and get the same results under the same conditions. Anyone taking room temperature using a thermometer is going to get the same result if they use it correctly, regardless of who measures it. 

(I really shouldn't be posting anymore, but thanks, @Maddie. But I respectfully disagree: your example might work if all people are in the same spot at the same time, but that is a mere hypothesis, an ideal that cannot be fulfilled, - whatever you measure it is still limited to space and time and the conditions and circumstances at that present moment. .... However what people seem to be discussing here is more a thing of personal - that means subjective experience, - in my definition of these words. It might even be a sum of people in accordance, agreed, but that doesn't make it objective in my very humble and very limited opinion. Maybe Mr. @HumanElectric would be keen to help me with my wrong conceptualization of 'objective'... I would be very much obliged and hope to stay out of further discussions ... today... and just be a noninvolved observer...)

[Maddie]

2 minutes ago, S:C said:

(I really shouldn't be posting anymore, but thanks, @Maddie. But I respectfully disagree: your example might work if all people are in the same spot at the same time, but that is a mere hypothesis, an ideal that cannot be fulfilled, - whatever you measure it is still limited to space and time and the conditions and circumstances at that present moment.

 

Unless of course you have everyone in the same room at the same time lol. The point being an objective measurement does not depend upon the perspective of the individual doing the measuring.

[HumanElectric]

17 minutes ago, S:C said:

Why on earth should any experience of an individual or a group be able to claim "objectivity" for themselves?! 

What exactly is your definition of "objectivity", if I may ask?

(I don't confirm or deny any other claims on this thread.)

Honestly, these counter-arguments some in this thread continue to bring up, hold no weight and are besides the point.

 

I just wanted to state that I’ve been to a medical seminar, I witnessed people experiencing qi for their first time and I experienced it also, this continued for 5 days straight while our specific conditions were being treated.

 

What I felt and what the other participants felt was the same. If you meet these doctors, what you feel will be the same also. It’s not worth racking one’s brain over… A simple example, I (a healthy human being) put my hand in a fire and another healthy human being puts their hand in the same fire, we’ll objectively feel the same heat. It seems that many here are trying to counter-argue that all the participants of these trips are hypnotized by non-English speaking doctors and the fire (qi) that we felt never existed…

Edited December 7, 2023 by HumanElectric

[S:C]

Just now, HumanElectric said:

 these counter-arguments some in this thread continue to bring up, hold no weight and are besides the point.

 

I did not bring a counter argument, I am sorry you feel this way. This is in fact a personal problem of conceptualization of the meaning objective. All I was doing was asking for your definition and/or conceptualization of the meaning "objective". 

(I am really very indifferent to the concrete question and very sorry to ask this personal question in an innocent thread, but the matter just came up.)

[liminal_luke]

If I had Rudi's faqi abilities I'd be sorely tempted to keep my "powers" a secret and this thread is why.

[S:C]

3 minutes ago, HumanElectric said:

we’ll objectively feel the same heat.

I respectfully disagree. Why should the feeling be the same? 

How could you be so sure about this? I for once cannot claim to know this.

(And I did not speak about hypnosis, so no generalizations here please.)

[Maddie]

These super power threads always get so heated. 

[S:C]

5 minutes ago, Maddie said:

Unless of course you have everyone in the same room at the same time lol.

 

Hypothesis of impossible (but hypothetically interesting) conditions in the dimension I live in. 

Quote

The point being an objective measurement does not depend upon the perspective of the individual doing the measuring.

Interesting thought concept, thank you. But still I do disagree or am lacking an understanding. 

In my belief it does differ who does the measuring. (But with this I do retreat unless someone can offer a valid counter argument. 

 

Still - no definition of objectivity.  

(I am sorry to all parties involved for hypothetical stepping on your toes; it must be something wrong with the way I conceptualize this.)

 

 

[liminal_luke]

2 minutes ago, Maddie said:

These super power threads always get so heated. 

 

The back and forth between sparring Bums has been nothing short of electric.

[S:C]

(I really better leave this place. Thanks and bye.)

[HumanElectric]

13 minutes ago, S:C said:

I respectfully disagree. Why should the feeling be the same? 

How could you be so sure about this? I for once cannot claim to know this.

(And I did not speak about hypnosis, so no generalizations here please.)

Brother, Maddie gave a great example of the word objective. We should all have a basic understanding of certain words and how they’re used. I’m not going to sit here and explain the meanings of specific words, that’s not why I’m here. 

 

If I put my hand on a hot stove, I’ll know it. If you put your hand on a hot stove, you’ll know it. If a child puts their hand on a hot stove, they’ll know it. If one of the parties doesn’t feel anything, it can be said that something may be wrong with them, such as being unable to feel sensation.

 

Hope this helps. 

Edited December 7, 2023 by HumanElectric

[S:C]

1 minute ago, HumanElectric said:

Brother,

Brother, thanks. But the specific definitions and expectations of concepts do matter... not everyone feels or perceives or knows the same world or consensual reality. I am confused, that you cannot see the point of a clear definition. If you might cite a definition by an author of some authority or even your own and not a mere example of an inductive reasoning (going from a specific example to a generalization - it just isn't able to claim truth for each and everyone around you. - Regarding your example of the stove: there is a neurological disorder ... some people just don't feel the pain - but why are you so sure that something is wrong with them?

Who or what gives you the right to define the norm?

[S:C]

The majority is always right?

 

Disappointing, however understandable opinion.

[Maddie]

22 minutes ago, S:C said:

Still - no definition of objectivity.  

 

ob·jec·tive

/əbˈjektiv/

Learn to pronounce

adjective

 

1. 1.

   (of a person or their judgment) not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.

   "historians try to be objective and impartial"

    

   Similar:

   impartial

    

    

   unbiased

    

    

   unprejudiced

    

    

   nonpartisan

    

    

   disinterested

    

    

    

[S:C]

7 minutes ago, Maddie said:

not influenced by personal feelings or opinions in considering and representing facts.

Impossible for humans that still function via their sense doors and mind machine interpreting them. (= Assertion that should (in my opinion) happily be refuted and debated!)

 

Alright, maybe now I can try to think this whole thing through. T

 

hanks, @Maddie. However I would be curious if that is the definition Mr. @HumanElectric was thinking about, too, when he wrote the above assertion? 

Edited December 7, 2023 by S:C

[wandelaar]

2 hours ago, HumanElectric said:

I can assure you, when you experience qi for the first time, as I did, mere suggestion would never cause one’s relaxed limbs to involuntarily contract, as is experienced when receiving faqi. 

 

So I asked:
 

Quote

What do you mean by "mere suggestion"? Did you try hypnosis before so as to be able to compare the effects of the two procedures?

 

And your answer was: no.

 

So you are in no position to claim what you are trying to assure us of. But perhaps you made a study of hypnosis without undergoing it yourself, but than you would have known that involuntarily contraction of one’s relaxed limbs is perfectly possible as a result of hypnosis. Furthermore there are also lots of claims of positive medical results of hypnotic treatment.

 

But instead of reevaluating your claim in light of this new information you simply ignore it, and change the subject.

[Taoist Texts]

26 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

If I had Rudi's faqi abilities I'd be sorely tempted to keep my "powers" a secret

yeah but you see, then he would have to go get one of those job things

 

as to you i am pretty sure you have powers. you just keep them secret

 

16 minutes ago, HumanElectric said:

If I put my hand on a hot stove, I’ll know it. If you put your hand on a hot stove, you’ll know it. If a child puts their hand on a hot stove, they’ll know it. If one of the parties doesn’t feel anything, it can be said that something may be wrong with them, such as being unable to feel sensation.

hmm may be you wanna read up on "cults" and "https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_psychogenic_illness". they know all kinds of things about stoves and stuff

[Maddie]

2 minutes ago, S:C said:

Impossible for humans that still function via their sense doors and mind machine interpreting them.  

 

If you have a thermometer and you take the temperature of the room and it says its 20c. It's going to be 20c no matter how you personally feel about it. That is objective.