Rudi Authentic Neigong

[liminal_luke]

I think of qi as a waystation between the material and nonmaterial aspects of our being. Imagine there's a train that runs between the gross materiality of the body and the ethereality of the spirit; qi would be the first stop after leaving the physical realm. Is this different from other people's understanding?

Edited December 9, 2023 by liminal_luke

[kakapo]

On 12/4/2023 at 12:43 PM, Maddie said:

 

I'm always warry of those that want to develop powers. It sounds like a very egocentric thing. It also reminds me of a bunch of kids on a play ground playing Harry Potter.

 

Wanting power for the sake of having power itself is vulgar in my opinion.

 

If you need to feed your family and can't afford food,  using a gun to hunt a deer is a perfect use case for owning a gun.

 

If you need to defend your life, home, or family from intruders, it is another perfect use case for owning a gun.

 

If you want to own a gun so you brandish it in public to intimidate other people, you are an idiot.

 

Most people who seek power are idiots and don't even know why they want it, or what they will use it for when they get it.

[Sahaja]

For me qi has such a strong somatic expression in the body during practice that it seems it is a something that exists, not just a concept or something very faint or ephemeral. Because of this, these debates seem strange to me and it’s difficult to figure out how to contribute. Transmissions and other emissions of qi don’t seem that unusual to me either, I sort of expect a good teacher to have this capability at some level even if it’s just a subtle transmission of internal skills through proximity directly from nervous system to nervous system. Not that I am at that level but when I see how the qi behaves at even my elementary level  (pressure, movement, contraction, expansion, circulation, “squeezing of the toothpaste tube”)it seems more like some very early phase on the same continuum than some crazy, distant magical skill set. Whether I will ever have the capability or the qi level or the karma to ever get to that point  I  don’t know, but it doesn’t seem crazy impossible nor is it a particular obsession of mine. 
 

So for me on fa qi - I am - “congratulations, cool skill set, nice accomplishment , way beyond my skill level, nice skill to have as a medical practitioner” and then I’m back to my practice. Now if someone starts talking about “fa stillness”, or fa emptiness” or ‘Jhanic state fa -I am sure I will be all ears - lol!

 

 

[Infolad1]

On 12/8/2023 at 2:36 PM, 小梦想 said:

Which know laws of physics are making what we do impossible. Serious question, please explain to me which laws of physics are being broken by being able to store up energy and emit it?

THIS!

 

I FINALLY got through this whole thread. ALMOST as good as the latest episode of "Invincible"...
...Who am I kidding? It was nowhere NEAR as good as the latest episode of "Invincible"!! 

All joking aside, It's truly amazing to me how far behind some people on here seem to be on what's

been happening in science over the past 100 years.

First things first: QI IS ENERGY. ENERGY IS INFORMATION.

Energy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy

In physics, energy (from Ancient Greek ἐνέργεια (enérgeia) 'activity') is the quantitative property that is transferred to a body or to a physical system, recognizable in the performance of work and in the form of heat and light. Energy is a conserved quantity—the law of conservation of energy states that energy can be converted in form, but not created or destroyed. The unit of measurement for energy in the International System of Units (SI) is the joule (J).

Common forms of energy include the kinetic energy of a moving object, the potential energy stored by an object (for instance due to its position in a field), the elastic energy stored in a solid object, chemical energy associated with chemical reactions, the radiant energy carried by electromagnetic radiation, and the internal energy contained within a thermodynamic system. All living organisms constantly take in and release energy.

Information https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information
Information is an abstract concept that refers to that which has the power to inform. At the most fundamental level, information pertains to the interpretation (perhaps formally) of that which may be sensed or their abstractions. Any natural process that is not completely random and any observable pattern in any medium can be said to convey some amount of information. Whereas digital signals and other data use discrete signs to convey information, other phenomena and artifacts such as analog signals, poems, pictures, music or other sounds, and currents convey information in a more continuous form. Information is not knowledge itself, but the meaning that may be derived from a representation through interpretation.

This is Dr. Michael Levin.
 
Michael Levin is the Vannevar Bush Distinguished Professor of Biology at Tufts University, an associate faculty at Harvard’s Wyss Institute, and the director of the Allen Discovery Center at Tufts. He has published over 400 peer-reviewed publications across developmental biology, computer science, and philosophy of mind. His group works to understand information processing and problem-solving across scales, in a range of naturally evolved, synthetically engineered, and hybrid living systems. Dr. Levin’s work spans from fundamental conceptual frameworks to applications in birth defects, regeneration, and cancer.

His research lab's site: https://www.drmichaellevin.org/

From the homepage:

"Our main model system is morphogenesis: the ability of multicellular bodies to self-assemble, repair, and improvise novel solutions to anatomical goals. We ask questions about the mechanisms required to achieve robust, multiscale, adaptive order in vivo, and about the algorithms sufficient to reproduce this capacity in other substrates. One of our unique specialties is the study of developmental bioelectricity: ways in which all cells connect in somatic electrical networks that store, process, and act on information to control large-scale body structure. Our lab creates and employs tools to read and edit the bioelectric code that guides the proto-cognitive computations of the body, much as neuroscientists are learning to read and write the mental content of the brain."

The secret to how the body works: Biologists explains bioelectricity - Michael Levin and Lex Fridman
 

 

Michael Levin: Biology, Life, Aliens, Evolution, Embryogenesis & Xenobots | Lex Fridman Podcast #325
 

Michael Levin: The electrical blueprints that orchestrate life
 

This man WILL win a Nobel Prize. His work is world-changing.

He and his team are working with the "Qi Body" and learning how to reprogram it, to create different morphological outcomes.

This "body" is the matrix, the mold that our gross physical bodies form in. It's what acupuncturists are working with.

Here's a video from 12 years ago, showing the bioelectrical signals forming a frog's face:

The Face of a Frog
 

So actual proof of this body's existence. Which Western science was mostly unaware of.

EVERY TCM Practitioner should be aware of this research. The ones I know are. One said to me,
"Some researchers have known about this forever. Dr. Harold Saxton Burr. Dr. Leonard J. Ravitz. Dr. Robert O. Becker.
Dr. Levin has just rediscovered it."

I know that this is a lot, so I'll create some posts over the next 48 hours, with additional new videos and research.

In the meantime, some of you might want to check out my "The Energy Cultivator's Handbook" thread, from years back, where I covered a lot of the science behind the various cultivation practices: 

Cheers!!

[Chang dao ling]

4 minutes ago, Infolad1 said:

THIS!

 

I FINALLY got through this whole thread. ALMOST as good as the latest episode of "Invincible"...
...Who am I kidding? It was nowhere NEAR as good as the latest episode of "Invincible"!! 

All joking aside, It's truly amazing to me how far behind some people on here seem to be on what's

been happening in science over the past 100 years.

First things first: QI IS ENERGY. ENERGY IS INFORMATION.

Energy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy

In physics, energy (from Ancient Greek ἐνέργεια (enérgeia) 'activity') is the quantitative property that is transferred to a body or to a physical system, recognizable in the performance of work and in the form of heat and light. Energy is a conserved quantity—the law of conservation of energy states that energy can be converted in form, but not created or destroyed. The unit of measurement for energy in the International System of Units (SI) is the joule (J).

Common forms of energy include the kinetic energy of a moving object, the potential energy stored by an object (for instance due to its position in a field), the elastic energy stored in a solid object, chemical energy associated with chemical reactions, the radiant energy carried by electromagnetic radiation, and the internal energy contained within a thermodynamic system. All living organisms constantly take in and release energy.

Information https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information
Information is an abstract concept that refers to that which has the power to inform. At the most fundamental level, information pertains to the interpretation (perhaps formally) of that which may be sensed or their abstractions. Any natural process that is not completely random and any observable pattern in any medium can be said to convey some amount of information. Whereas digital signals and other data use discrete signs to convey information, other phenomena and artifacts such as analog signals, poems, pictures, music or other sounds, and currents convey information in a more continuous form. Information is not knowledge itself, but the meaning that may be derived from a representation through interpretation.

This is Dr. Michael Levin.
 
Michael Levin is the Vannevar Bush Distinguished Professor of Biology at Tufts University, an associate faculty at Harvard’s Wyss Institute, and the director of the Allen Discovery Center at Tufts. He has published over 400 peer-reviewed publications across developmental biology, computer science, and philosophy of mind. His group works to understand information processing and problem-solving across scales, in a range of naturally evolved, synthetically engineered, and hybrid living systems. Dr. Levin’s work spans from fundamental conceptual frameworks to applications in birth defects, regeneration, and cancer.

His research lab's site: https://www.drmichaellevin.org/

From the homepage:

"Our main model system is morphogenesis: the ability of multicellular bodies to self-assemble, repair, and improvise novel solutions to anatomical goals. We ask questions about the mechanisms required to achieve robust, multiscale, adaptive order in vivo, and about the algorithms sufficient to reproduce this capacity in other substrates. One of our unique specialties is the study of developmental bioelectricity: ways in which all cells connect in somatic electrical networks that store, process, and act on information to control large-scale body structure. Our lab creates and employs tools to read and edit the bioelectric code that guides the proto-cognitive computations of the body, much as neuroscientists are learning to read and write the mental content of the brain."

The secret to how the body works: Biologists explains bioelectricity - Michael Levin and Lex Fridman
 

 

Michael Levin: Biology, Life, Aliens, Evolution, Embryogenesis & Xenobots | Lex Fridman Podcast #325
 

Michael Levin: The electrical blueprints that orchestrate life
 

This man WILL win a Nobel Prize. His work is world-changing.

He and his team are working with the "Qi Body" and learning how to reprogram it, to create different morphological outcomes.

This "body" is the matrix, the mold that our gross physical bodies form in. It's what acupuncturists are working with.

Here's a video from 12 years ago, showing the bioelectrical signals forming a frog's face:

The Face of a Frog
 

So actual proof of this body's existence. Which Western science was mostly unaware of.

EVERY TCM Practitioner should be aware of this research. The ones I know are. One said to me,
"Some researchers have known about this forever. Dr. Harold Saxton Burr. Dr. Leonard J. Ravitz. Dr. Robert O. Becker.
Dr. Levin has just rediscovered it."

I know that this is a lot, so I'll create some posts over the next 48 hours, with additional new videos and research.

In the meantime, some of you might want to check out my "The Energy Cultivator's Handbook" thread, from years back, where I covered a lot of the science behind the various cultivation practices: 

Cheers!!

Nice post. Do you heard of master yan xin? I think you enjoy his book. 

" Secrets and benifits of internal Qigong cultivation"

 

 

[Infolad1]

5 minutes ago, Chang dao ling said:

Nice post. Do you heard of master yan xin? I think you enjoy his book. 

" Secrets and benifits of internal Qigong cultivation"

 

 

Hi, Chang Dao Ling,

Thanks!

Yes, I have. I saved his book a while ago.

Cheers,
Derrick

[silent thunder]

On 12/8/2023 at 8:36 AM, Maddie said:

 

   That is indeed a very interesting story, and I don't want to be "that gal" but I will point out one issue I have with an otherwise very interesting story. My primary issue is that there is no way to independently verify that any of this actually happened. The reason that I am pointing this out is that in the past I was in a cult. It was a Christian cult and as all cults tend to be the leader was elevated within the cult as having had all of these miraculous encounters with God and done all of these amazing miracles in the Philippines, and this gave an otherwise abusive leader ultimate authority and legitimacy. As time went by within the cult however I began to wonder why all the claims of miraculous events were always long ago and far away and that there was no way to independently verify them. Towards the end of my time with the cult as I began to voice these perfectly legitimate questions I was demonized within the cult. Questioning the validity was not allowed nor tolerated. Soon after I left the cult and some years later it came to light via other former members of the cult that the only verified "miracle" that this leaded accomplished in the Philippines was getting a Filipino girl pregnant. 

   The point of this isn't to be unnecessarily critical. It is an interesting story, but as Sam Harris always says "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence". This isn't saying that the story isn't true, or that anyone is being dishonest and if this is just a fun story then it really doesn't matter. It does matter however if it gives legitimacy to something that affects people's lives and livelihood as I learned the hard way in my cult. Just to be clear I'm not making any accusations about this teacher but just highlighting the need and importance of healthy skepticism and critical thinking. If there is evidence that I am unaware of that substantiates this story I think we would all be very eager and even excited to see it. 

there is no way to independently verify that any of this actually happened

 

As I read your response this bolded part highlighted for me and it occurred to me that what you say here, can be said about the story you use as your basis for questioning rudi...  is itself another collection of words claiming authority of a sort, on no basis but your own words and claims.

 

It's an amorphous, ephemeral process, attempting to share an intimate subjective life experience with another... using only words.

 

We all experience life from the center of our own awareness.  And when we attempt to share a personal experience, we share it in the form of words that make up a story.

 

We all have to gauge on our own the stories we encounter, what conveys sincerity and what is diaphenous.

I find a few contributors here to ring sincere.  rudi and you among them.

 

 

[wandelaar]

3 hours ago, Infolad1 said:

THIS!

 

I FINALLY got through this whole thread. ALMOST as good as the latest episode of "Invincible"...
...Who am I kidding? It was nowhere NEAR as good as the latest episode of "Invincible"!! 

All joking aside, It's truly amazing to me how far behind some people on here seem to be on what's

been happening in science over the past 100 years.

First things first: QI IS ENERGY. ENERGY IS INFORMATION.

Energy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy

In physics, energy (from Ancient Greek ἐνέργεια (enérgeia) 'activity') is the quantitative property that is transferred to a body or to a physical system, recognizable in the performance of work and in the form of heat and light. Energy is a conserved quantity—the law of conservation of energy states that energy can be converted in form, but not created or destroyed. The unit of measurement for energy in the International System of Units (SI) is the joule (J).

Common forms of energy include the kinetic energy of a moving object, the potential energy stored by an object (for instance due to its position in a field), the elastic energy stored in a solid object, chemical energy associated with chemical reactions, the radiant energy carried by electromagnetic radiation, and the internal energy contained within a thermodynamic system. All living organisms constantly take in and release energy.

Information https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information
Information is an abstract concept that refers to that which has the power to inform. At the most fundamental level, information pertains to the interpretation (perhaps formally) of that which may be sensed or their abstractions. Any natural process that is not completely random and any observable pattern in any medium can be said to convey some amount of information. Whereas digital signals and other data use discrete signs to convey information, other phenomena and artifacts such as analog signals, poems, pictures, music or other sounds, and currents convey information in a more continuous form. Information is not knowledge itself, but the meaning that may be derived from a representation through interpretation.

This is Dr. Michael Levin.
 
Michael Levin is the Vannevar Bush Distinguished Professor of Biology at Tufts University, an associate faculty at Harvard’s Wyss Institute, and the director of the Allen Discovery Center at Tufts. He has published over 400 peer-reviewed publications across developmental biology, computer science, and philosophy of mind. His group works to understand information processing and problem-solving across scales, in a range of naturally evolved, synthetically engineered, and hybrid living systems. Dr. Levin’s work spans from fundamental conceptual frameworks to applications in birth defects, regeneration, and cancer.

 

(...)

 

Thank you very much! My medical understanding is still limited and so this information is very welcome. I looked at one of the video's just now and will look at the others later on when I have the time to do so. If the other video's are as good as the first one than this is the preferred way to go to determine what is and what isn't likely to be true about Chi Masters.

[wandelaar]

3 hours ago, silent thunder said:

there is no way to independently verify that any of this actually happened

 

As I read your response this bolded part highlighted for me and it occurred to me that what you say here, can be said about the story you use as your basis for questioning rudi...  is itself another collection of words claiming authority of a sort, on no basis but your own words and claims.

 

It's an amorphous, ephemeral process, attempting to share an intimate subjective life experience with another... using only words.

 

We all experience life from the center of our own awareness.  And when we attempt to share a personal experience, we share it in the form of words that make up a story.

 

We all have to gauge on our own the stories we encounter, what conveys sincerity and what is diaphenous.

I find a few contributors here to ring sincere.  rudi and you among them.

 

I prefer to be seen as insincere if that's what it takes to arrive at some credible inter-subjective knowledge. There's too much relativist postmodern blabbering going on these days. This nonsense will also pass some day but for now we're still in the midst of it. Here's some antidote:  https://theconversation.com/no-youre-not-entitled-to-your-opinion-9978

Edited December 17, 2023 by wandelaar

[Taoist Texts]

15 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

 Here's some antidote:  https://theconversation.com/no-youre-not-entitled-to-your-opinion-9978

 

Quote

 

Patrick Stokes

Senior Lecturer in Philosophy, Deakin University

 

 

 

Quote

 

Digital souls: a philosophy of online immortality

Bloomsbury Academic. 2021.

Social media is full of dead people. What should we do with all these digital souls? Can we delete them, or do they have a right to persist? Patrick Stokes claims that we have a moral duty towards the digital dead. 

 

it is the same guy who denies you your opinion. interesting thing is that there are many vocal people who worship the digital dead AND deny you your opinion. thats a whole new level of crazy. Also, you know who was denied an opinion? Slaves were. No opinion for them slaves. Slaves to who? Why, to the digital dead of course. Thats why these are the end times. Thanks for the antidote btw @wandelaar lol.

[Maddie]

3 hours ago, silent thunder said:

there is no way to independently verify that any of this actually happened

 

As I read your response this bolded part highlighted for me and it occurred to me that what you say here, can be said about the story you use as your basis for questioning rudi...  is itself another collection of words claiming authority of a sort, on no basis but your own words and claims.

 

It's an amorphous, ephemeral process, attempting to share an intimate subjective life experience with another... using only words.

 

We all experience life from the center of our own awareness.  And when we attempt to share a personal experience, we share it in the form of words that make up a story.

 

We all have to gauge on our own the stories we encounter, what conveys sincerity and what is diaphenous.

I find a few contributors here to ring sincere.  rudi and you among them.

 

 

 

When making a claim the burden of proof is on the person making the claim.

 That is my basis for questioning Rudi or anybody else that makes a claim. 

[wandelaar]

@ Taoist Texts

You may as well spare you the trouble. The game is over. Apart from an occasional link to an interesting text or an incidental wisecrack you have nothing interesting to add to the forum. All the rest consists of fallacies and trolling. You're on my ignore list now.

 

[Chang dao ling]

@Taoist Texts you don't believe in siddhis are by product of meditation or internal alchemy?

[Infolad1]

6 hours ago, silent thunder said:

there is no way to independently verify that any of this actually happened

 

As I read your response this bolded part highlighted for me and it occurred to me that what you say here, can be said about the story you use as your basis for questioning rudi...  is itself another collection of words claiming authority of a sort, on no basis but your own words and claims.

 

It's an amorphous, ephemeral process, attempting to share an intimate subjective life experience with another... using only words.

 

We all experience life from the center of our own awareness.  And when we attempt to share a personal experience, we share it in the form of words that make up a story.

 

We all have to gauge on our own the stories we encounter, what conveys sincerity and what is diaphenous.

I find a few contributors here to ring sincere.  rudi and you among them.

 

 

Hi, Silent Thunder,
 

Excellent point!

 

Most of the information that we all have is hearsay. It's what our parents/relatives/school/church/media/government

have told us and conditioned us to believe through reinforcement. We don't have direct experience with most of it.

We take this information and form beliefs around them, which gather together to form belief systems.

 

We take these beliefs, these words, to be facts. Knowledge. To paraphrase Patanjali, this is our biggest source of delusion. It's the root of all conflicts, both "Inner" and "Outer".

 

When we say we believe, what we're saying is that we don't know.

 

Our senses are filters for us to navigate in 3-dimensional space, not actual determinants of reality.

This is why Western empiricism, upon which the scientific method is built, only works up to a point. It's why the scientific method works up to a point.

empiricism /ĕm-pîr′ĭ-sĭz″əm/
noun

1. The view that experience, especially of the senses, is the only source of knowledge. (Emphasis mine)
2. Employment of empirical methods, as in science.
3. An empirical conclusion.

 

Evidence: 
1. UNCOUNTABLE NOUN 
Evidence is anything that you see, experience, read, or are told that causes you to believe that something is true or has really happened. (Emphasis mine)

Ganley said he'd seen no evidence of widespread fraud. [+ of/for] 
There is a lot of evidence that stress is partly responsible for disease. 
To date, there is no evidence to support this theory. 
Synonyms: proof, grounds, data, demonstration   More Synonyms of evidence

2. UNCOUNTABLE NOUN 
Evidence is the information that is used in a court of law to try to prove something. Evidence is obtained from documents, objects, or witnesses. [law]

The evidence against him was purely circumstantial. 
...enough evidence for a successful prosecution. 
3.  See give evidence

4. VERB
If a particular feeling, ability, or attitude is evidenced by something or someone, it is seen or felt.
[formal]

He's wise in other ways too, as evidenced by his reason for switching from tennis to golf. 
She was not calculating and evidenced no specific interest in money. [VERB noun] 
Synonyms: show, prove, reveal, display   More Synonyms of evidence

 

Our senses are not always accurate and don't show us all of reality as a survival mechanism.

This is Donald Hoffman

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_D._Hoffman

Donald David Hoffman (born December 29, 1955) is an American cognitive psychologist and popular science author. He is a professor in the Department of Cognitive Sciences at the University of California, Irvine, with joint appointments in the Department of Philosophy, the Department of Logic and Philosophy of Science, and the School of Computer Science.
 

Hoffman studies consciousness, visual perception, and evolutionary psychology using mathematical models and psychophysical experiments. His research subjects include facial attractiveness, the recognition of shape, the perception of motion and color, the evolution of perception, and the mind–body problem. 

He has co-authored two technical books; Observer Mechanics: A Formal Theory of Perception (1989) offers a theory of consciousness and its relationship to physics; Automotive Lighting and Human Vision (2005) applies vision science to vehicle lighting. His book Visual Intelligence: How We Create What We See (1998) presents the modern science of visual perception to a broad audience. His 2015 TED Talk, "Do we see reality as it is?" argues that our perceptions have evolved to hide reality from us.

 

The Case Against Reality: How Evolution Hid the Truth from Our Eyes by Donald Hoffman
https://a.co/d/jjDjTKq 

Do we see reality as it is? Donald Hoffman
 

 

 

Donald Hoffman: Reality is an Illusion - How Evolution Hid the Truth | Lex Fridman Podcast #293

 

Quantum Mechanics has shown us time and time again that objective reality is just a level of reality

and not the primary level:

 

Quantum Reality - from Science News

 

https://www.sciencenews.org/century/quantum-physics-theory-revolution-reality-uncertainty

 

 

So when people talk about "The Burden of Proof" and "Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary evidence", they have to remain ever mindful of the fact that any conclusions are from a 3-dimensional Space/Time framework, and are not ultimate reality. They think that they're saying something definitive when they're not.

 

Is so and so a fraud? Did you directly experience it? No? Then "who knows" is the correct answer to questions like this.

 

Even if we directly experience a demonstration, it could still be suspect. It could be an illusion, a con. We don't know.

 

But if WE learn to do It, NOW we have a bit more to work with. And if we're able to teach others to do it, to replicate our results, NOW we're cooking with plutonium! Now we have what we would call "A Science". 

 

Anything else is an opinion, a belief. Cheers!

[Maddie]

There's nothing wrong with healthy skepticism.

 

There's nothing good with naivety.

 

Typically the only people that balk at supporting their claims with evidence are the people whose claims have no evidence.

Edited December 17, 2023 by Maddie

[Infolad1]

Just now, Maddie said:

There's nothing wrong with healthy skepticism.

 

There's nothing good with naivety.

 

Typically the only people that balk at supporting their claims with evidence are the people whose claim to have no evidence.

Hi, Maddie,

We're supposed to ALWAYS be skeptical. About everything. ESPECIALLY the things coming out of our respective mouths.

 

As long as it's not debunking, I have no issue with skepticism. It's required.

What specifically, precisely, do you mean when you say evidence?

 

Each of us lives in our particular perception of "reality". So if we don't agree on a lexicon of terms to communicate with, then mischief occurs, as demonstrated by this thread. 

 

So please lay out your definition of evidence. It'd be appreciated. I'll reply when I get back. Cheers!

[wandelaar]

@Infolad1

 

Indeed if one would develop a siddhi oneself then one could move beyond opinion towards experience. One would still have to watch out for self deception, logical fallacies, statistical errors etc. But over time for someone able to do it himself the thing would become as certain as humanly possible.

 

But most of us are not prepared or willing to go this (long and uncertain) road. And so for most of us deciding by personal experience is not an option.

 

That is unless some new scientifically backed ways are found to make the personal experience of siddhis available to (almost) everyone. Do you also have info about that?

Edited December 17, 2023 by wandelaar

[Maddie]

11 minutes ago, Infolad1 said:

Hi, Maddie,

We're supposed to ALWAYS be skeptical. About everything. ESPECIALLY the things coming out of our respective mouths.

 

As long as it's not debunking, I have no issue with skepticism. It's required.

What specifically, precisely, do you mean when you say evidence?

 

Each of us lives in our particular perception of "reality". So if we don't agree on a lexicon of terms to communicate with, then mischief occurs, as demonstrated by this thread. 

 

So please lay out your definition of evidence. It'd be appreciated. I'll reply when I get back. Cheers!

 

When claims are examined objectively its almost certain that some of them will be "debunked", but truth trumps ego, right?

 

I assume you know what evidence means, but nevertheless what is meant by evidence is, what reason can you give to demonstrate that what you think is true or correct? 

[Taoist Texts]

1 hour ago, Chang dao ling said:

@Taoist Texts you don't believe in siddhis are by product of meditation or internal alchemy?

siddhis are not a byproduct . they are the goal. siddhis do not exist in the physical external world. they are internal subjective phenomena in and of the practitioner's consciousness. whoever believes in  external siddhis is naive. whoever claims to sell  external siddhis is selling a bill of goods.

[Maddie]

2 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

siddhis are not a byproduct . they are the goal. siddhis do not exist in the physical external world. they are internal subjective phenomena in and of the practitioner's consciousness. whoever believes in  external siddhis is naive. whoever claims to sell  external siddhis is selling a bill of goods.

 

When I was in acupuncture school it was basically like the Dao bums in real life, so needless to say quite an eclectic assortment of personalities. There were several people while I was there that claimed to have siddhis, and several of them "demonstrated" their siddhis. It was always quite underwhelming to say the least.   

[dino]

9 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

siddhis are not a byproduct . they are the goal. siddhis do not exist in the physical external world. they are internal subjective phenomena in and of the practitioner's consciousness. whoever believes in  external siddhis is naive. whoever claims to sell  external siddhis is selling a bill of goods.

https://www.youtube.com/@supernaturalabilitiessiddh8027/videos

[Maddie]

Just now, dino said:

https://www.youtube.com/@supernaturalabilitiessiddh8027/videos

 

I've said it several times here, but I'll say it again, youtube videos are not evidence. 

[dino]

Just now, Maddie said:

 

I've said it several times here, but I'll say it again, youtube videos are not evidence. 

for you...

[senseless virtue]

12 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

siddhis do not exist in the physical external world. they are internal subjective phenomena in and of the practitioner's consciousness. whoever believes in  external siddhis is naive. whoever claims to sell  external siddhis is selling a bill of goods.

 

 

[Maddie]

2 minutes ago, dino said:

for you...

 

Also for objective reality. Objective truth isn't subjective. People are free to believe what ever youtube videos or anything else for that matter that they want to believe, but just because they are convinced does not make it objectively true. 

 

Objective truth isn't relative, and to think it is can be dangerous.