Rudi Authentic Neigong

[wandelaar]

@Maddie

 

It's a hopeless battle. Every time has it's own specific forms of madness, and in our current day it's postmodern relativism. The revolt of ignorance. The assault on truth. The death of expertise. It all revolves around the wish of people to take back control and to regain a sense of self worth. Seeing themselves as nobodies, which in fact most of us (including myself) are, doesn't seem very appealing. Science and technology have evolved far and wide beyond common comprehension and people feel themselves left out of the equation. There's almost no subject or there are others who know far more about it and/or are more capable than themselves. Then along comes this warmed-up version of ancient skepticism with its claim that everybody is entitled to his/her own truth, and that science is just another belief system. Small wonder that many jump at the opportunity to put themselves on a pedestal as now seems possible with academic backing by the postmodern "philosophers" to make a long nose towards science and the experts. Yes - accepting that we are just straw dogs is hard, but it's necessary if we want to see reality as objectively as humanly possible. Only few want to make the effort or like what they see. Many are happy with the kind of make-belief that "resonates" with them, and don't care to investigate if it's likely to be true or not. I have little hope that this will ever change.

[liminal_luke]

For me, it comes down to a question: what is there to lose?  The insufficiently skeptical can be easily duped, swindled, cheated out of money chasing false siddhis.  And yet there's also something lost when skepticism becomes a hardened, habitiual pose in life.  My former acupuncturist / taoist meditation teacher once told me about a time when he levitated.  I didn't remark on the claim and we quickly went on to discuss topics more germane to my medical appointment.  At a Buddhist retreat I attended, an instructor told a story about how Dipa Ma, an accomplished soul by all accounts, traveled back in time to prevent a train accident.  Did I believe these stories?  Yes, I did.  Call me crazy (many have), but I like believing in magic.

Edited December 17, 2023 by liminal_luke

[wandelaar]

@liminal_luke

 

Well - at least you are honest about it. 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

13 hours ago, Infolad1 said:

THIS!

 

I FINALLY got through this whole thread. ALMOST as good as the latest episode of "Invincible"...
...Who am I kidding? It was nowhere NEAR as good as the latest episode of "Invincible"!! 

All joking aside, It's truly amazing to me how far behind some people on here seem to be on what's

been happening in science over the past 100 years.

First things first: QI IS ENERGY. ENERGY IS INFORMATION.

Energy https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Energy

In physics, energy (from Ancient Greek ἐνέργεια (enérgeia) 'activity') is the quantitative property that is transferred to a body or to a physical system, recognizable in the performance of work and in the form of heat and light. Energy is a conserved quantity—the law of conservation of energy states that energy can be converted in form, but not created or destroyed. The unit of measurement for energy in the International System of Units (SI) is the joule (J).

Common forms of energy include the kinetic energy of a moving object, the potential energy stored by an object (for instance due to its position in a field), the elastic energy stored in a solid object, chemical energy associated with chemical reactions, the radiant energy carried by electromagnetic radiation, and the internal energy contained within a thermodynamic system. All living organisms constantly take in and release energy.

Information https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Information
Information is an abstract concept that refers to that which has the power to inform. At the most fundamental level, information pertains to the interpretation (perhaps formally) of that which may be sensed or their abstractions. Any natural process that is not completely random and any observable pattern in any medium can be said to convey some amount of information. Whereas digital signals and other data use discrete signs to convey information, other phenomena and artifacts such as analog signals, poems, pictures, music or other sounds, and currents convey information in a more continuous form. Information is not knowledge itself, but the meaning that may be derived from a representation through interpretation.

This is Dr. Michael Levin.
 
Michael Levin is the Vannevar Bush Distinguished Professor of Biology at Tufts University, an associate faculty at Harvard’s Wyss Institute, and the director of the Allen Discovery Center at Tufts. He has published over 400 peer-reviewed publications across developmental biology, computer science, and philosophy of mind. His group works to understand information processing and problem-solving across scales, in a range of naturally evolved, synthetically engineered, and hybrid living systems. Dr. Levin’s work spans from fundamental conceptual frameworks to applications in birth defects, regeneration, and cancer.

His research lab's site: https://www.drmichaellevin.org/

From the homepage:

"Our main model system is morphogenesis: the ability of multicellular bodies to self-assemble, repair, and improvise novel solutions to anatomical goals. We ask questions about the mechanisms required to achieve robust, multiscale, adaptive order in vivo, and about the algorithms sufficient to reproduce this capacity in other substrates. One of our unique specialties is the study of developmental bioelectricity: ways in which all cells connect in somatic electrical networks that store, process, and act on information to control large-scale body structure. Our lab creates and employs tools to read and edit the bioelectric code that guides the proto-cognitive computations of the body, much as neuroscientists are learning to read and write the mental content of the brain."

The secret to how the body works: Biologists explains bioelectricity - Michael Levin and Lex Fridman
 

 

Michael Levin: Biology, Life, Aliens, Evolution, Embryogenesis & Xenobots | Lex Fridman Podcast #325
 

Michael Levin: The electrical blueprints that orchestrate life
 

This man WILL win a Nobel Prize. His work is world-changing.

He and his team are working with the "Qi Body" and learning how to reprogram it, to create different morphological outcomes.

This "body" is the matrix, the mold that our gross physical bodies form in. It's what acupuncturists are working with.

Here's a video from 12 years ago, showing the bioelectrical signals forming a frog's face:

The Face of a Frog
 

So actual proof of this body's existence. Which Western science was mostly unaware of.

EVERY TCM Practitioner should be aware of this research. The ones I know are. One said to me,
"Some researchers have known about this forever. Dr. Harold Saxton Burr. Dr. Leonard J. Ravitz. Dr. Robert O. Becker.
Dr. Levin has just rediscovered it."

I know that this is a lot, so I'll create some posts over the next 48 hours, with additional new videos and research.

In the meantime, some of you might want to check out my "The Energy Cultivator's Handbook" thread, from years back, where I covered a lot of the science behind the various cultivation practices: 

Cheers!!

Thanks for this! I always look forward to your posts. The frog face video is something amazing, I remember the first time hearing about it from a book. I just wish people were more open minded towards new discoveries and how people are actually trying to explain all this phenomena with science. If there was no curiosity for the unknown, there would be zero scientific progress with anything.

 

Quote

siddhis are not a byproduct . they are the goal. siddhis do not exist in the physical external world. they are internal subjective phenomena in and of the practitioner's consciousness. whoever believes in  external siddhis is naive. whoever claims to sell  external siddhis is selling a bill of goods.

Not going to directly reply to this guy because I can’t be bothered to deal with him. But it needs to be said that this is just his opinion. Many lineages, including Rudi’s, believe that siddhi is not the goal of these practices, but simply a byproduct of correct practice. If you cultivate to a stage where you can perform faqi, you don’t even need to use it. You can keep your qi for use in your own cultivation. You don’t even have to learn how to faqi if you don’t want to. The choice is yours. 

[Neirong]

2 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

Not going to directly reply to this guy because I can’t be bothered to deal with him. But it needs to be said that this is just his opinion. Many lineages, including Rudi’s, believe that siddhi is not the goal of these practices, but simply a byproduct of correct practice. If you cultivate to a stage where you can perform faqi, you don’t even need to use it. You can keep your qi for use in your own cultivation. You don’t even have to learn how to faqi if you don’t want to. The choice is yours. 

You also don't need to prove anything to anyone; instead, revel in the improved quality of life and enhanced abilities you gain through training. If anything, most Adepts keep their "siddhis" private.
 

Can you imagine a billionaire walking among homeless people, sharing tips on getting rich? And when they don't believe him, he is hurt and sends everyone a million-dollar paycheck and luxury car to prove his point. That's some strong determination to believe in such a scenario or wait for it to happen. First, people look for such things, then they come to us and complain that they got scammed by another "GrandMaster" burning bo'oh o' wa'er.
 

Most wealthy people I have met are rather lowkey and silent about their wealth; they don't even flaunt or show off. Many of those who buy luxury items are insecure about their status and have to show it off even if they can't afford it.
 

Life is simple: if you work on the self-development path, you will eventually gain siddhis. If you don't work and sit on forums waiting for a "billionaire" to come and prove that "money" is real, you will never gain anything. There are circles where everyone has abilities, and those where almost none have.

Self-development is not a communism, you have to earn your worth by hard work. I don't get people who expect things to fall from the sky as gifts.

[Zhongyongdaoist]

I was happy to see Infolad1 back and posting his usual interesting posts, in this case emphasizing information theory:

 

17 hours ago, Infolad1 said:

First things first: QI IS ENERGY. ENERGY IS INFORMATION

 

I have posted on the importance of information theory before, but there hasn't been much interest in such things for a while, many of our more scientific types left in the "Great Schism", fortunately some have returned.  Here is one of my posts in which I bring point out what I consider an important aspect of information theory:

 

On 10/23/2014 at 9:20 AM, Zhongyongdaoist said:

On 10/23/2014 at 8:33 AM, Brian said:

Very nicely stated, iain.

 

Yes, very nice iain, what it has to do with akasha is another thing entirely, but that there is some relation to traditional concepts is certainly a possible extrapolation, and I would like to point out another traditional concept for which there is ample, what we might call meta-evidence, and that is the concept of "Formal Cause", a concept put forward by Aristotle, but strongly related to Plato's "Doctrine of Ideas".

 

In his essay "Concepts of Cause in the Development of Physics", which can be found in a collection of his essays The Essential Tension, starting on page 21, Thomas Kuhn argues that while the notion of "formal causes" was explicitly rejected by the nascent "Scientific Revolution" in the Seventeenth Century, it has consistently worked its way back into physics in the progressive mathematization of physics since 1700. The interesting thing is that this reintroduction of formal causes as mathematics actually moves the concept more in the direction of Plato than Aristotle would have liked.

 

I looked seriously at the implications of the double split experiment back circa 1980 and it was one of my reasons for adopting Platonism as my general working model of the world. I also made a conjecture at that time that information theory (in a sense an instantiation of Plato's "ideas") would allow the unification of physics which would solve the particle/wave problem. Physics has certainly opened up in that direction, but it has a ways to go.

 

I hope this is interesting and informative.

 

ZYD

[zerostao]

On 11/30/2023 at 4:36 PM, Pak_Satrio said:

Don’t ask me, ask 小梦想. You have an expert here, take this opportunity.

I find it interesting in some off handed way, when, someone meets a real McCoy, yet, doesn’t recognize it as such.

Be grateful for your own good fortune and opportunity and for your recognition ability. 
I think folks either get it or they don’t. The ones that don’t get it, that’s ok. 
I have a theory goes like: you tend to lose out on more by not taking a risk than by taking the risk.

[HumanElectric]

I agree with your theory of not taking the risk. “A shot not taken, is a shot that’s missed.”

 

At some point, one has to attempt to directly experience things, or else closure will remain a faraway dream.

[Chang dao ling]

14 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

siddhis are not a byproduct . they are the goal. siddhis do not exist in the physical external world. they are internal subjective phenomena in and of the practitioner's consciousness. whoever believes in  external siddhis is naive. whoever claims to sell  external siddhis is selling a bill of goods.

Siddhis are by product of meditation or internal alchemy. For example if you do meditation on agna chakra within 7 to 10 years you will develop clairvoyance. When you concentrate on chakra you are accumulating prana/chi. When you accumulate enough prana it will pierce the chakra this is called " chakra bedhanam" ( piercing of chakra) in tantra. When prana pierced the chakra you will get siddhi as by product. When prana pierced the agna chakra you will get siddhi of clairvoyance . 

[senseless virtue]

2 hours ago, Chang dao ling said:

For example if you do meditation on agna chakra within 7 to 10 years you will develop clairvoyance.

 

You shouldn't be sharing info like this. If anyone picks it up, then they may develop a powerful siddhi without any supporting development. Clairvoyance is one the more dangerous ones. One reason is that opening spiritual vision means that the spirits can now easily see you too.

[Taoist Texts]

16 hours ago, Maddie said:

17 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

siddhis are not a byproduct . 

 

When I was in acupuncture school it was basically like the Dao bums in real life, .... several of them "demonstrated" their siddhis. It was always quite underwhelming 

exactly. most of us go to  a professional school to learn a trade so we can pay for groceries. but the lucky few of adults go to a  school because they are children at heart. they crave to be encouraged, to be reprimanded, to be guided by teachers, and of course - to learn  magic. Prof schools being too boring, they enroll in make-believe magic schools. Who has the heart to tell them that childhood is over? not me. not before Christmas.

2 hours ago, Chang dao ling said:

17 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

siddhis are not a byproduct . 

if you do meditation on agna chakra within 7 to 10 years you will develop clairvoyance.

i was always wondering where this strange amount of years in make-believe schools comes from. it is always between 7 and 10. why not say 6 or 15? Today it dawned on me whoa dude! Thats the number of grades in the real grade schools!

https://fictionhorizon.com/how-many-years-are-there-at-hogwarts/

13 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

Quote

siddhis are not a byproduct . 

Not going to directly reply to this guy

 

21 hours ago, wandelaar said:

@ Taoist Texts The game is over

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Press_F_to_pay_respects

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

9 hours ago, zerostao said:

I find it interesting in some off handed way, when, someone meets a real McCoy, yet, doesn’t recognize it as such.

Be grateful for your own good fortune and opportunity and for your recognition ability. 
I think folks either get it or they don’t. The ones that don’t get it, that’s ok. 
I have a theory goes like: you tend to lose out on more by not taking a risk than by taking the risk.

It boggles the mind that no one even thought of asking Rudi a question until 4 pages in. And even then that was after it was pointed out. Some people just like to hear the sound of their own voice, or in this case read their own words. 
 

It’s not even about believing it or not, even if you are extremely skeptical about faqi and think it’s fake, ask how it works so you can then disprove it, not make guesses about how you think the process is. Ask about the lineage, the teachings etc. It would save a lot of embarrassment of getting simple facts wrong like the one I mentioned in my last comment. Being skeptical is good, just do it properly and do your research not spout your own opinion without backing it up with evidence.

[Chang dao ling]

4 hours ago, senseless virtue said:

You shouldn't be sharing info like this. If anyone picks it up, then they may develop a powerful siddhi without any supporting development

Thanks for your advice. I won't share this kind of info from now on. What you mean by developing powerful siddhi without any supporting development?

[senseless virtue]

Just now, Chang dao ling said:

What you mean by developing powerful siddhi without any supporting development?

 

Foundation of preliminary training. This can mean ethics of no-harm, having renunciation, altruistic love, generosity, patience, and having the correct view of cause and effect, and realizing no-self. After these comes good health and a repelling aura. Some traditions also teach how to shield from spirit threats.

[Chang dao ling]

4 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

was always wondering where this strange amount of years in make-believe schools comes from. it is always between 7 and 10. why not say 6 or 15? Today it dawned on me whoa dude! Thats the number of grades in the real grade schools!

I don't know which country your in. If you are in USA you can meet chun yi ( founder of spring forest Qigong). Search in Google about SFQ. Do you have teacher? Do you practice meditation? 

Edited December 18, 2023 by Chang dao ling

[Chang dao ling]

1 minute ago, senseless virtue said:

 

Foundation of preliminary training. This can mean ethics of no-harm, having renunciation, altruistic love, generosity, patience, and having the correct view of cause and effect, and realizing no-self. After these comes good health and a repelling aura. Some traditions also teach how to shield from spirit threats.

I completely agree 💯.  I innocently belive everyone in this website have above average moral values since they are interested in Taoism Buddhism and Hinduism.

[wandelaar]

About taking the shot:

 

It's not that simple. The shot to be taken takes many years of training with uncertain results. In the same time one could have done something else with useful and/or interesting (almost) guarantied positive results by taking up a more regular study or training. Besides the spiritual market place has hundreds or maybe thousands of options for those who are afraid of missing out on this or that exotic experience. So are we to try them all? Clearly not - it wouldn't even be possible to do so. So you have to make choices anyhow, and any possible choice implies taking the risk of missing out on something. Long story short: whatever you choose to do, you will always be missing out on something. Even if you eventually acquire some siddhi you will have missed the opportunity to do a more regular study or training in the time now spend on acquiring your siddhi.

 

Another option (especially fitted for older folks) is instead of running around trying the achieve this or that to slow down and start appreciating what you already have and can do. And unless you're in dire poverty or bad health that's quite a lot.

Edited December 18, 2023 by wandelaar

[Taoist Texts]

48 minutes ago, Chang dao ling said:

I don't know which country your in. If you are in USA you can meet chun yi ( founder of spring forest Qigong). Search in Google about SFQ.

this is a strange recommendation on so many levels

56 minutes ago, Chang dao ling said:

Do you have teacher? Do you practice meditation? 

sigh... amigo, i am a teacher. yes i do. why do you ask?

[Chang dao ling]

6 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

this is a strange recommendation on so many levels

Chun yi can use third eye ( clairvoyance) a by product of cultivation. That's why I recommend his system to you.

[Taoist Texts]

3 minutes ago, Chang dao ling said:

Chun yi can use third eye ( clairvoyance)

how do you know that he can?

[Chang dao ling]

22 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

sigh... amigo, i am a teacher. yes i do. why do you ask?

Your a teacher in which cultivation system? 

Edited December 18, 2023 by Chang dao ling

[Chang dao ling]

2 minutes ago, Taoist Texts said:

how do you know that he can?

Via his books and testimonials. There is a guy ( forgot his name) in this website told me about his personal experience. He told chun yi told about his past and healed his some minor disease 

[Taoist Texts]

12 minutes ago, Chang dao ling said:

Via his books and testimonials. There is a guy ( forgot his name) in this website told me about his personal experience. He told chun yi told about his past and healed his some minor disease 

oh so you dont know yourself . you just repeat whatever they say to sell seminars. good for you.

19 minutes ago, Chang dao ling said:

Your a teacher in which cultivation system? 

"neidan"

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

1 hour ago, Chang dao ling said:

Your a teacher in which cultivation system? 

You are wasting your time, he’s a nobody. He’s just trolling you.

[Infolad1]

22 hours ago, wandelaar said:

@Infolad1

 

Indeed if one would develop a siddhi oneself then one could move beyond opinion towards experience. One would still have to watch out for self deception, logical fallacies, statistical errors etc. But over time for someone able to do it himself the thing would become as certain as humanly possible.

 

But most of us are not prepared or willing to go this (long and uncertain) road. And so for most of us deciding by personal experience is not an option.

 

That is unless some new scientifically backed ways are found to make the personal experience of siddhis available to (almost) everyone. Do you also have info about that?

Hi, Wandelaar,

As a matter of fact, I do!

 

It will take a week or two to lay out, and multiple posts, so please bear with me. I'll add this to my Energy Cultivator's Handbook, as time permits. It's A LOT and tends to put most people to sleep. 

As with most of my posts, It's going to be LONG. Explaining reality is simple but the details are complex. Apologies in advance.

First things first.

 

For those of you here who may not know me from previous posts and threads, I've pursued these subjects for most of my life. I've practiced them for 28 years and taught them for 24 of those years. I'm certified in Yang Style Tai Chi Quan, Qigong, Zhang Zhaung, and Neigong and have taught at a local community center for over 10 years. I've also learned TCM Theory, Short Form Chen Style Tai Chi Quan, Baguazhang,  Long Fist, Iron Body, and Iron Crotch Neigong. I have participated in competitions (Push Hands) and won 1st place in my weight division for the 3 years that I did It.

I've learned, practiced, and taught Theurgy (High Magick), Qigong, Meditation, Neidan, and Yoga, as part of an International spiritual society whose foundation is Ancient Egyptian/Taoist. I have over 5,000 hours of practice and teaching time and over 10,000 hours of meditation time. In my mundane life, I'm a Commercial Artist, Designer, and Writer. I'm also the founder of a multimedia streaming platform startup.

I didn't write the above as an appeal to authority. I'm always about laying your cards out on the table and showing that you can back up what you're saying. I'm a member of many forums and chat groups in multiple disciplines, and they all have the same personality archetypes and more than their share of keyboard warriors.

 

Theory and opinions are useless without actual application and verification. Beliefs can get you killed.
 

What I attempt to do in all of my posts and the classes I teach is provide people with the information to go and verify what I'm talking about for themselves. 

 

BELIEVE NOTHING. ESPECIALLY what I'm saying. Research, discriminate, and be open but skeptical. If you're able to teach others and they get results, then you have something that could be called a science. Or mass psychosis.

 

Now with that out of the way...

 

Siddhis are a side effect and shouldn't be pursued in and of themselves. It's usually a waste of time,

and if you do get any effect, it won't end well. But people are fearful and desire power to protect themselves and rule over others.

This is the reason why actual siddhis can be dangerous. Because people don't know what they're doing and most importantly, WHY they're doing It.   

 

"WHO is it that desires the siddhis?"

 

I'm going to use the analogy of a video game to explain concepts as I go. Most people here have played a video game before,

so we should all be on the same level of being able to grok what I'm going to lay out.

 

What we call objective reality is just a level of actual reality. the Western scientific paradigm has it in reverse. Objective reality is not the totality of what's "real". As a matter of fact, It's a VERY small part.

 

It operates under a particular rule set. Like a physics engine in a AAA game like The Matrix Awakens: An Unreal Engine 5 Experience.

The Matrix Awakens: An Unreal Engine 5 Experience

 

Incredible, right? But unreal (pun intended). Just a series of 0s and 1s. Yin and Yang.

"But I'm real, right?!"

 

Uh, yeah. about that...

 

No Self, No Problem: How Neuropsychology Is Catching Up to Buddhism (The No Self Wisdom Series)

https://www.amazon.com/No-Self-Problem-Neuropsychology-Catching/dp/1938289978

 

Description:

"While in grad school in the early 1990s, Chris Niebauer began to notice striking parallels between the latest discoveries in psychology, neuroscience, and the teachings of Buddhism, Taoism, and other schools of Eastern thought. When he presented his findings to a professor, his ideas were quickly dismissed as “pure coincidence, nothing more.”
 

Fast-forward 20 years later and Niebauer is a PhD and a tenured professor, and the Buddhist-neuroscience connection he found as a student is practically its own genre in the bookstore. But according to Niebauer, we are just beginning to understand the link between Eastern philosophy and the latest findings in psychology and neuroscience and what these assimilated ideas mean for the human experience.
 

In this groundbreaking book, Niebauer writes that the latest research in neuropsychology is now confirming a fundamental tenet of Buddhism, what is called Anatta, or the doctrine of “no self.” Niebauer writes that our sense of self, or what we commonly refer to as the ego, is an illusion created entirely by the left side of the brain. Niebauer is quick to point out that this doesn't mean that the self doesn't exist but rather that it does so in the same way that a mirage in the middle of the desert exists, as a thought rather than a thing. His conclusions have significant ramifications for much of modern psychological modalities, which he says are spending much of their time trying to fix something that isn’t there.
 

What makes this book unique is that Niebauer offers a series of exercises to allow the reader to experience this truth for him- or herself, as well as additional tools and practices to use after reading the book, all of which are designed to change the way we experience the world―a way that is based on being rather than thinking."

Outstanding book. A must-read. Except for one chapter, It's flawless.

 

This is Dr. Niebauer's YouTube Channel:

 

Thoughts do not exist

 

 

So that which desires the siddhis is a mental construct. An Illusion.

 

How can you prove this? Let's do it right now.

 

We are observing our thoughts right now. Looking at them.

 

We are observing images in our sphere of awareness right now. Looking at them.

 

We are observing various sensations in our respective bodies right now. Looking at them.

 

So if we're looking at all of this, then we're none of It. WE are awareness Itself. We are Consciousness. The Seer, The Witness.
Original Nature. Zero. Amen.

 

Once you Grok that, then the siddhis come. Because there are no siddhis. THEN the channels open up.

Because there are no channels. 

 

We are, all of us, ALREADY awareness. ALREADY consciousness. ALREADY The Buddha. The Christ. The Krishna.

THE ONE. 

 

But currently, we are all virtual characters, in a virtual world, with virtual beliefs and opinions about what's actually going on. 
 

We BELIEVE that we're Clark Kent, but we're ALREADY Superman/woman.
 

 

ALL of our problems in understanding this is due to thinking.

 

To be continued, with a clear-cut, non-denominational breakdown on how to get back to being The One again.

As long as you do the work.

 

So don't touch that dial.  Cheers!