Rudi Authentic Neigong

[silent thunder]

Really appreciate your return @Infolad1 you always offer fuel for exploration and sustenance for curiosity.

 

I'm looking forward to checking out Niebauer's work over the holiday break, thanks for sharing the links.  His insights seem resonantly reminiscent and harmonic to those of Fritjoff Capra's The Dao of Physics, and the works of David Bohm and Krishnamurti.

 

 

This bit particularly resonates personally.

43 minutes ago, Infolad1 said:

We are observing our thoughts right now. Looking at them.

 

We are observing images in our sphere of awareness right now. Looking at them.

 

We are observing various sensations in our respective bodies right now. Looking at them.

 

So if we're looking at all of this, then we're none of It. WE are awareness Itself. We are Consciousness. The Seer, The Witness.
Original Nature. Zero. Amen.

 

Once you Grok that, then the siddhis come. Because there are no siddhis. THEN the channels open up.

Because there are no channels. 

 

We are, all of us, ALREADY awareness. ALREADY consciousness. ALREADY The Buddha. The Christ. The Krishna.

THE ONE. 

 

But currently, we are all virtual characters, in a virtual world, with virtual beliefs and opinions about what's actually going on. 

 

Few absolutes remain in my paradigm of late... but there is one that does not waiver is this:

 

Awareness is what is

and we^{(if any thing)}

are awareness. 

 

 

 

[wandelaar]

@Infolad1

 

Nice! I already agree that the "I" is an illusion. The word "I" simply points at the current speaker, and the concept "I" in its different instances appears in and refers to those parts of the world process (whatever that is) that currently happen to reflect on themselves. The I is not a thing but a temporary process. Like a flame or a tornado. Buddhism has some good arguments for the nonexistence of the I, and in the West the philosopher David Hume thought much the same. Also science is catching up with those ideas. I'm already convinced of that, but no siddhis yet. 

 

Also I'm not interested in siddhis to do something with them. I would be happy with micro-siddhis that are completely worthless beyond the fact that they prove their existence. I see them (that is the proof of their existence) as a way to move beyond the materialistic world view that sees our consciousness as dependent on our brain and body.

Edited December 18, 2023 by wandelaar

[HumanElectric]

5 hours ago, wandelaar said:

About taking the shot:

 

It's not that simple. The shot to be taken takes many years of training with uncertain results…

 

And unless you're in dire poverty or bad health that's quite a lot.

When I mentioned taking the shot, what I meant was, to go experience qi from a doctor who’s verified to be able to emit it. Take the shot and feel their qi. Most here seemed to be concerned if qi is real or not, this is the quickest way to find out.

 

5 hours ago, wandelaar said:

And unless you're in dire poverty or bad health that's quite a lot.

Side benefit of taking the shot and scoring, the doctor will be able to help out who is in bad health.

[wandelaar]

4 minutes ago, HumanElectric said:

When I mentioned taking the shot, what I meant was, to go experience qi from a doctor who’s verified to be able to emit it. Take the shot and feel their qi. Most here seemed to be concerned if qi is real or not, this is the quickest way to find out.

 

No - it isn't. Feeling the chi doesn't prove it's existence. But this discussion is moving in circles so I will not repeat the arguments.

[Maddie]

21 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

 

No - it isn't. Feeling the chi doesn't prove it's existence. But this discussion is moving in circles so I will not repeat the arguments.

 

yes subjective experiences are defiantly real experiences, but they do not prove objective reality and its important that we recognize the difference between the two. 

[GreatAutumn]

1 hour ago, HumanElectric said:

When I mentioned taking the shot, what I meant was, to go experience qi from a doctor who’s verified to be able to emit it. Take the shot and feel their qi. Most here seemed to be concerned if qi is real or not, this is the quickest way to find out.

 

Luckily enough these people ask for big enough sums of money to "feel their qi" that only people who already believe it's real would ever consider it. Luckily enough it works in their favor. How much did that guy said it cost to do a healing dance with them? 5k? 
I wonder if for that amount the guy that zapps people goes through at least a metal detector before each session to at least minimize foul play. Otherwise just going there, giving some money, getting a massage(hopefuly not with a happy ending) and maybe getting some electro therapy doesn't really prove anything at all

[HumanElectric]

46 minutes ago, GreatAutumn said:

Luckily enough these people ask for big enough sums of money to "feel their qi" that only people who already believe it's real would ever consider it. Luckily enough it works in their favor. How much did that guy said it cost to do a healing dance with them? 5k? 
I wonder if for that amount the guy that zapps people goes through at least a metal detector before each session to at least minimize foul play. Otherwise just going there, giving some money, getting a massage and maybe getting some electro therapy doesn't really prove anything at all

I’ve never seen or heard about a single doctor that asked for any money to feel qi. Your view of things is misconstrued. You can easily go to the Sufi healer, who @Pak_Satriopreviously mentioned that he visited, for super cheap ($50?). Most of you are stuck on trying to contemplate if qi can be subjectively or objectively experienced, while the rest of us just visited these doctors, with the intentions of correcting our conditions and to help improve our practice.

 

My specific condition was corrected and I even documented the process. Money well spent. Being able to feel their highly condensed qi was just a bonus. 

 

46 minutes ago, GreatAutumn said:

getting a massage(hopefuly not with a happy ending) 

A lot of you are very disrespectful in this group. Please don’t sully this thread any further…

 

Armchair spiritualists in this group, for years, have been running off the ones who have actual experience and knowledge, when it comes to these matters and it’s easy to see why. Belittling, on top of insults, on top of arrogance etc etc. All the negative psychological qualities that a human could have, condensed into one forum. Either take the shot or stay on the sidelines. It won’t affect those who directly experience these things, in any way, shape or form.

 

Most of us just pop in to shine light on things, not argue with anyone about things that they have no clue about.

Edited December 18, 2023 by HumanElectric

[Maddie]

39 minutes ago, HumanElectric said:

A lot of you are very disrespectful in this group. Please don’t sully this thread any further…

 

I agree, its not that people disagree that is usually the problem, but how they disagree. Respect is always warranted. 

[wandelaar]

15 minutes ago, HumanElectric said:

Most of us just pop in to shine light on things, not argue with anyone about things that they have no clue about.

 

It's very easy to imagine oneself as having a clue about things when you apparently just don't care whether or not your feelings reflect something real. But I'm not going to rehash all the argument for careful and critical research here. This has already been done many times before by myself and others. People without a critical faculty won't listen anyhow.

[GreatAutumn]

1 hour ago, HumanElectric said:

A lot of you are very disrespectful in this group. Please don’t sully this thread any further…

 

Maybe you are overly sensitive to a silly joke and are a bit overly defensive about the whole thing. I'm guessing some cognitive dissonance might rear it's ugly head every hear and there.
I'm wondering, it's clear these guys make a lot of money with this stuff, we're talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars here. How expensive is a good metal detector and an infrared camera to detect any electronic equipment? Why isn't it standard with these demonstrations since people pay some much money to meet them? Meet the students, pass a metal detector and perform while being recorded by a infrared camera, seems pretty non invasive and much more dignified than getting stripped. Is there a reason why none of the videos I see on that guys youtube has at least such a minimal setup except that they don't want to? Is there any protocol at all that these guys do to confirm this is real other than just electrocuting people?
 

Edited December 18, 2023 by GreatAutumn
missing word

[HumanElectric]

1 hour ago, wandelaar said:

 

It's very easy to imagine oneself as having a clue about things when you apparently just don't care whether or not your feelings reflect something real. But I'm not going to rehash all the argument for careful and critical research here. This has already been done many times before by myself and others. People without a critical faculty won't listen anyhow.

Brother, you speak as if I’m speaking from delusion. You’re using the word imagine, as if it’s not you who’s imagining/assuming things. I flew across the world and I know what I witnessed during that trip. Take the shot or stay on the sidelines. Your assumptions made from the comfort of your home, aren’t valid in any way possible. But of course you’ll continue to assume you’re right, because “people without a critical faculty won’t listen anyhow.”

Edited December 19, 2023 by HumanElectric

[HumanElectric]

47 minutes ago, GreatAutumn said:

Maybe you are overly sensitive to a silly joke and are a bit overly defensive about the whole thing. I'm guessing some cognitive dissonance might rear it's ugly head every hear and there.
I'm wondering, it's clear these guys make a lot of money with this stuff, we're talking about hundreds of thousands of dollars here. How expensive is a good metal detector and an infrared camera to detect any electronic equipment? Why isn't it standard with these demonstrations since people pay some much money to meet them? Meet the students, pass a metal detector and perform while being recorded by an infrared camera, seems pretty non invasive and much more dignified than getting stripped. Is there a reason why none of the videos I see on that guys has at least such a minimal setup except that they don't want to? Is there any protocol at all that these guys do to confirm this is real other than just electrocuting people?
 

We aren’t invited to these medical seminars just for the purpose of them “demonstrating they can electrocute people.” We go to correct our conditions and most leave in better health than they came. I don’t see what’s so hard to understand about that.

 

47 minutes ago, GreatAutumn said:

How expensive is a good metal detector and an infrared camera to detect any electronic equipment? Why isn't it standard with these demonstrations since people pay some much money to meet them? Meet the students, pass a metal detector and perform while being recorded by a infrared camera, seems pretty non invasive and much more dignified than getting stripped. Is there a reason why none of the videos I see on that guys has at least such a minimal setup except that they don't want to? Is there any protocol at all that these guys do to confirm this is real other than just electrocuting people?
 

If you want them to walk through a metal detector, while you film them with an infrared camera, rent or purchase a metal detector for them to walk through and bring your own infrared camera. They aren’t there to prove a point to anyone, it’s a thought that most likely doesn’t even pass through their mind.

 

We’re allowed to film them, I have lots of footage that I personally recorded, so you can book a trip, bring a camera of your choosing and record the whole ordeal. It’s nothing to go back and forth about.

 

Most of the time they’re treating us in hotels anyway, if you can transport and station a metal detector for them to walk through, as silly as it may look, kudos to you. Or just bring a handheld one to save yourself some face…

 

In all honesty though, the John Chang (Pak John) videos were good enough for me. The observers had him strip down to his underwear and still felt the need to pat him down with a metal detector, while he was in his underwear, then brought him to another location of their choosing and still at least one of them refused to believe, the powerful energy that they were all objectively experiencing, being emitted by him at will. Hmm, maybe there’s just something that those experts didn’t understand about that neidan practitioner and his practice, that many of you are also unable to understand?

 

 

Edited December 19, 2023 by HumanElectric

[wandelaar]

5 minutes ago, HumanElectric said:

Brother, you speak as if I’m speaking from delusion. You’re using the word imagine, as if it’s not you who’s imagining/assuming things. I flew across the world and I know what I witnessed during that trip. Take the shot or stay on the sidelines. Your assumptions made from the comfort of your home, aren’t valid in any way possible. But of course you’ll consider to assume you’re right, because “people without a critical faculty won’t listen anyhow.”

 

And your reaction exactly proves my point! If you had a critical faculty and employed it than you would have considered the point made that feeling chi doesn't prove the existence of chi. But you simply ignore it. That's why I don't consider you a credibly source of information.

[HumanElectric]

25 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

 

And your reaction exactly proves my point! If you had a critical faculty and employed it than you would have considered the point made that feeling chi doesn't prove the existence of chi. But you simply ignore it. That's why I don't consider you a credibly source of information.

Right and getting hit by lightning doesn’t prove that lightning exists, or grabbing an active electric fence, doesn’t prove that electricity is existing within the wire that was grabbed, or sticking a metal fork in a socket doesn’t prove…you see where I’m going with this…

 

I never claimed to be a credible source of anything. I actually recommend that you investigate these things yourself, not from the comfort of your home though.

 

I decided to play in the sports game and take the shot, watching from the sidelines and guessing/assuming what the truth of reality is, wasn’t good enough for me.

 

Become your own credible source, then report back to everyone on your findings, if you’re bold enough. 

Edited December 19, 2023 by HumanElectric

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

2 hours ago, GreatAutumn said:

Luckily enough these people ask for big enough sums of money to "feel their qi" that only people who already believe it's real would ever consider it. Luckily enough it works in their favor. How much did that guy said it cost to do a healing dance with them? 5k? 
I wonder if for that amount the guy that zapps people goes through at least a metal detector before each session to at least minimize foul play. Otherwise just going there, giving some money, getting a massage(hopefuly not with a happy ending) and maybe getting some electro therapy doesn't really prove anything at all

Mate I paid £50

[GreatAutumn]

3 minutes ago, HumanElectric said:

Right and getting hit by lightning doesn’t prove that lightning exists, or grabbing an electric fence doesn’t prove that electricity is existing within the wire that was grabbed, or sticking a metal fork in a socket doesn’t prove…you see where I’m going with this…

 

This is a false analogy. The dispute here is not whether electricity exists, it's whether the fence can generate electricity on it's own, without being plugged into a generator. And if someone touching the fence can differentiate between a self generating fence and a fence that's plugged into a socket.
 

 

8 minutes ago, HumanElectric said:

I decided to play in the sports game and take the shot, watching from the sidelines and guessing/assuming what the truth of reality is, wasn’t good enough for me.

 

Become your own credible source, then report back to everyone on your findings, if you’re bold enough. 

I know for a fact that a group of users here have asked one of these electrical qi masters for a remunerated private demonstration that would be recorded and measured with scientific equipment and they declined. As far as I understand it the guy is the successor of the first master of this Rudi guy that we're debating here. So things aren't just as straight forward as you make it out to be. But go ahead and prove everybody wrong. Next time you pay to meet them, buy a infrared camera and handheld metal detector and see how that goes, maybe post it on the internet for everyone to see. I even find it quite incredible that out of all these people that appear in the videos and payed so much money for this experience no one even attempted something like this, unless of course it's not really allowed
 

[Infolad1]

On 12/17/2023 at 11:06 AM, wandelaar said:

On 12/17/2023 at 11:06 AM, wandelaar said:

@Infolad1

...That is unless some new scientifically backed ways are found to make the personal experience of siddhis available to (almost) everyone. Do you also have info about that?

 

Siddhis and How to Get Them Part II

 

My first post in answer to Wandelaar's question laid out the foundation of what are we're actually talking about

when we're asking about obtaining Siddhis.

 

Here's one way to get there.

 

DISCLAIMER

I am not a doctor, nor do I play one on TV. I don't know anyone's physical, mental, or spiritual condition on here.

So PLEASE check with your doctor first, before doing ANY of these breathing practices. I am not liable or responsible 

for anything that happens to you, as a result of pursuing these practices. If you do drugs or are on any type of medication, to control mental illness, leave this stuff alone, please. 

 

Contraindications:

 

People with the following medical conditions must never apply Buteyko breathing without first consulting a doctor and an experienced Buteyko practitioner.

• Arterial Aneurysm
• Hemorrhagic Stroke
• Thrombosis
• Current Cancer Treatment
• Recent Heart Attack within twelve weeks
• Brain Tumour
• Uncontrolled Hypertension (high blood pressure)
• History of serious cardiac rhythm disorder (unless pacemaker fitted)
• Severe renal failure (includes dialysis)
• Uncontrolled hyperthyroidism
• Sickle cell disease
• Acute schizophrenia
• Chronic Obstructive Pulmonary Disease (COPD) with cor pulmonale
• Pregnancy (first trimester)

People with the following conditions must take caution when applying the Buteyko Method. Again, always seek help from their Doctor and an experienced Buteyko practitioner, rather than using self-help tools.

 

• Diabetes, especially insulin controlled
• Mild/ controlled hypertension
• Thyroid disease
• Angina / previous heart attack
• Epilepsy
• Past history of schizophrenia
• Reduced kidney function
• Pregnancy (second and third trimester)

 

The above applies to ANY breathing method (Khumbhakas, Taixi, Tummo, etc.)

 

Now with that out of the way...

 

This is Konstantin Pavlovich Buteyko

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buteyko_method

 

(Note: Wikipedia has a very strong anti-alternative medicine bias. There's not a lot of money to be made

with this method, so the research is sparse. Most comments on its efficacy are anecdotal testimonials,

so be aware of this. As an additional anecdote, I utilize it daily and have found it to be effective on a physical, mental,

and spiritual level, but take this with a grain of salt).

 

The Buteyko method was originally developed in the 1950s by physiologist Konstantin Buteyko in the Soviet Union.

Buteyko was a Ukrainian psychologist, who moved to Russia in his 20s. He was born in Ukraine and studied at Kyiv Politechnics.

The first official study into the effectiveness of the Buteyko Method on asthma was undertaken in 1968 at the Leningrad Institute of Pulmonology. The second, held at the First Moscow Institute of Pediatric Diseases in April 1980, eventually led the head of the Ministry of Health to issue an order (No 591) for the implementation of the Buteyko method in the treatment of bronchial asthma. Later, this method was introduced to Australia, New Zealand, Britain, and the United States, where it has received increasing exposure. Anecdotal reports of life-changing improvements attributed to the Buteyko method abound on the Internet and in books.

 

Buteyko took the original yogic text and systematized the breathing practices (Pranayama Breath/Prana Restraint/Yama)

into the method that he created and taught.

 

How does the Buteyko Method work?
You learn to reduce your breathing rate through various exercises. You test your progress using what he calls the Control Pause, which is the suspension of your breath.
 

It works through a combination of the Bohr Effect, Intermittent Hypoxic Breathing, and the molecule Hypoxic Inducible Factor (HIF).

 

According to the Bohr Effect, the buildup of CO2 during breath retention (hypoxia) triggers the release of oxygen. Oxygen is attached to hemoglobin in the blood and is then unloaded into the tissues. Hemoglobin is a protein that carries oxygen to the tissues and CO2 as waste back to the heart and lungs for removal.

 

Most people have a blood oxygen saturation level of 95-98 percent, which sounds high. However, this number is only a measure of oxygen in the blood—not the tissues, where oxygen is needed to energize and repair. Once oxygen is unloaded from hemoglobin due to breath hold, it can be utilized by tissues. CO2 is then picked up by hemoglobin, escorted to the lungs, and breathed out.

 

Intermittent Hypoxic Breathing is important for building a higher level of CO2 tolerance. The more CO2 the body is comfortable living with, the greater the amount of oxygen is freed to drive energy and repair. Regular practice of nose breathing exercises, nose breathing sleep, and breath retention are key to experiencing the benefits of intermittent hypoxia.

 

It’s important to build CO2 tolerance (the ability to tolerate a safe buildup of CO2 without feeling the urgency to breathe). Today, because so many of us have become mouth breathers, there is a strong tendency to over-breathe with each breath (some 26,000 times a day). Over-breathing will build oxygen in the blood, which is a good thing, but it will also over-remove CO2. Without a healthy (but safe) buildup of CO2, oxygen will stay attached to hemoglobin, and oxygen saturation in the tissues will be compromised.

 

The buildup of CO2 will cause the body to breathe. If too much CO2 accumulates, we will suffocate. Somewhere before suffocation, during brief intermittent periods of hypoxia (breath holds), an emergency repair message is released, causing a cascade of repair and recovery systems to turn on.

 

A main driver of this response is a molecule called hypoxia-inducible factor 1 (HIF-1). This molecule is responsible for what some call superhuman effects.
 

Benefits of HIF-1 (Hypoxia-Inducible factor-1)

1. Intermittent hypoxia has been found to enhance neuroplasticity, the capacity of neurons and neural networks to change connections and behavior in response to new information, sensory stimulation, development, damage, or dysfunction. In other words, our brains are designed to change, adapt, cope, and repair in the face of trauma, stress, a changing environment, and sensory input. Breath retention may therefore be a valuable tool for mental and emotional neurological repair.
 

2. Hypoxia has been shown to increase hemoglobin levels through the formation of erythropoietin (EPO). EPO was made famous when Lance Armstrong was caught doping his blood with EPO and was stripped of his six Tour De France victories. Yes, science suggests intermittent hypoxia from breath retention can boost EPO and enhance athletic performance.
 

3. Hypoxia boosts stem cell production. This was discovered when scientists measured stem cells in fetal circulation. The embryo in a mother’s womb breathes in a low partial pressure of oxygen, about equal to Mount Everest. This hypoxic environment is so important for the multiplication and growth of stem cells. After birth, when oxygen levels rise, stem cell production declines and future stem cell production is restricted to a few locations, such as bone marrow. Researchers suggest stem cells from bone marrow migrate to various tissues, and such migration may be facilitated by even a few minutes of hypoxia every day.

 

4. Hypoxia supports the formation of growth factors, such as vascular endothelial growth factor (VEGF), which leads to the formation of new blood vessels (angiogenesis). With heart patients, this can lead to the formation of coronary collateral circulation.
 

5. Hypoxia induces the enzyme nitric oxide synthase (NOS), the role of which is to produce the 1998 Noble Prize-winning panacea molecule nitric oxide. Nitric oxide (produced during nose breathing but not mouth breathing) is perhaps the body’s most potent defense against damage from oxidative stress (free radicals). Nitric oxide contributes to the dilatation of coronary arteries when needed and is involved in the quick vasodilatation required for the erection of the penis. Intermittent hypoxia can be an effective treatment for erectile dysfunction.
 

6. Hypoxia has been shown to increase the resistance of tissues to various insults and injuries, including radiation and aging.
 

7. Hypoxia has been shown to protect and repair damaged DNA by inducing the production of a transcription factor called p53, aka Guardian of the Genome.
 

 

The Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine 2019 (The Discoverers of HIF-1)

https://www.nobelprize.org/prizes/medicine/2019/press-release/

 

Press release
2019-10-07

 

The Nobel Assembly at Karolinska Institutet has today decided to award

the 2019 Nobel Prize in Physiology or Medicine jointly to William G. Kaelin Jr.,

Sir Peter J. Ratcliffe and Gregg L. Semenza for their discoveries of how cells

sense and adapt to oxygen availability

 

SUMMARY
Animals need oxygen for the conversion of food into useful energy. The fundamental importance of oxygen has been understood for centuries, but how cells adapt to changes in levels of oxygen has long been unknown.
 

William G. Kaelin Jr., Sir Peter J. Ratcliffe, and Gregg L. Semenza discovered how cells can sense and adapt to changing oxygen availability. They identified molecular machinery that regulates the activity of genes in response to varying levels of oxygen.

The seminal discoveries by this year’s Nobel Laureates revealed the mechanism for one of life’s most essential adaptive processes. They established the basis for our understanding of how oxygen levels affect cellular metabolism and physiological function. Their discoveries have also paved the way for promising new strategies to fight anemia, cancer, and many other diseases.

 

 

In one of his lectures, Dr. Buteyko equated Carbon Dioxide with Prana. Qi. what the West calls Spirit.

 

Here is the etymology of the word Spirit. Please notice the connections:

 

https://www.etymonline.com/word/Spirit

 

Spirit

"mid-13c., "life, the animating or vital principle in man and animals," from Anglo-French spirit, Old French espirit "spirit, soul" (12c., Modern French esprit) and directly from Latin spiritus "a breathing (of respiration, also of the wind), breath;" also "breath of a god," hence "inspiration; breath of life," hence life itself.
 

The Latin word also could mean "disposition, character; high spirit, vigor, courage; pride, arrogance." It is a derivative of spirare "to breathe," and formerly was said to be perhaps from a PIE *(s)peis- "to blow" (source also of Old Church Slavonic pisto "to play on the flute"). But de Vaan says the Latin verb is "Possibly an onomatopoeic formation imitating the sound of breathing. There are no direct cognates." Compare conspire, expire, inspire.
 

In English, it is attested from late 14c. as "divine substance, divine mind, God;" also "Christ" or His divine nature; also "the Holy Ghost; divine power." Also by late 14c. as "the soul as the seat of morality in man," and "extension of divine power to man; inspiration, a charismatic state; charismatic power," especially in reference to prophecy.
 

The meaning "supernatural immaterial creature; angel, demon; an apparition, invisible corporeal being of an airy nature" is attested from mid-14c. The word is attested by late 14c. as "ghost, disembodied soul of a person" (compare ghost (n.)). Spirit-rapping, colloquial for spiritualism in the supernatural sense, is from 1852. Spirit-world "world of disembodied spirits" is by 1829."

 

 

Breath/Qi/Spirit Facts

 

The average person breathes 12 to 20 breaths a minute.

 

People who are sick breathe up to 3x this fast.    

 

The goal, to be done GRADUALLY, is to learn to breathe from the lower diaphragm at all times, and to allow the Spirit to gradually slow the breath down over time. Lifestyle changes also help this to occur.

 

The average person has a CO2 level of 4.5% to 5.5% CO2 in the alveoli. Alveoli are the tiny sacs in the lungs that move oxygen and carbon dioxide into and out of your bloodstream.

 

Optimal CO2 levels would be 6.5% to 7.5% CO2 in alveoli. Amounts beyond this can become toxic and can have increasingly dangerous effects on the body.

 

This is one of the primary reasons why advanced cultivation levels can become dangerous and you need a master to supervise you.

Knowledge of static apnea tables or access to a device to monitor body CO2 levels is important at higher levels of practice.

 

Masters of the past understood the symptoms of excess hypoxia and could usually treat it. Fortunately, we live in the 21st Century and have access to monitoring equipment and charts to assess where we're at in our training.

 

You can use a combination of a Fitbit or Apple Watch, a Lumen device, and the Buteyko Health Zones Chart, to stay safe.

Fitbit: https://a.co/d/b3R7iW4

Lumen: https://www.lumen.me/

(A Lumen enables you to monitor your CO2 levels, among other vitals. Cheaper than a $2,500 Capnograph:

https://safeguardmedical.com/products/respiration/emma-capnograph/)

 

Don't be careless. Make smart choices.

 

The safest way to do this would be to get and use a Samozdrav device, which operates on the same principles outlined above:

 

Samozdrav Device

 

https://samozdrav.com/

 

(Note: Amazon is currently out of them, but you can order them directly from the link above. You can also buy them on eBay, but some of the sellers on there can be suspect (although the same could also be said about Amazon these days.)

 

You can learn the actual Buteyko Method from the only certified Buteyko Center in America:

https://www.breathingcenter.com/

 

I bought their video course: https://buteykobreathingcenter.com/products/buteyko-step-by-step-course

 

I plan to eventually get certified by them, but that's thousands of dollars. So It'll be a while.

 

Once you learn from them, check out Artour Rakhimov. He has his own school here. He knows his stuff.

https://www.normalbreathing.com/

Along with some great books:

 

Advanced Buteyko Breathing Exercises (Buteyko Method Book 2)
https://a.co/d/48Q9LFY

 

Normal Breathing: The Key to Vital Health

https://a.co/d/2N0jB6X

You could also use an Elevation 3.0 mask if you're athletically inclined:

 

TRAINING MASK 3.0 - Elevation Training Mask 3.0 - Stamina, Performance, Altitude Running Mask, Clinically Proven & Patented

https://www.amazon.com/Training-Elevation-Performance-Breathing-Official/dp/B071ZQTCC1/ref=sr_1_3_sspa?crid=1UM0H6R95MM7J&keywords=elevation%2BTraining%2BMask&qid=1702538746&sprefix=elevation%2Btraining%2Bmask%2Caps%2C80&sr=8-3-spons&sp_csd=d2lkZ2V0TmFtZT1zcF9hdGY&th=1&psc=1

 

Okay, I've bored people enough. Now, onto the good stuff!! 

 

 

The Buteyko Health Zones chart and what happens at the various levels.

 

There are two charts that I've seen. The Breathing Center's: https://www.breathingcenter.com/buteyko-breathing-measurements/

 

And Artour Rakhimov's chart, which has more details: https://www.normalbreathing.com/buteyko-table-of-health-zones/

 

I use Rakhimov's chart day to day. I've attached a PNG of it. 

 

Both Sasha Yakoleva, The Breathing Center's owner, and Artour Rakhimov, discuss the same effects at the higher levels of training:

 

Sasha talking about the last line of her chart:

"When a person passes away, his/ her CP and PMP become zero.

Buteyko was able to predict, sometimes to the hour, when a patient would die. It used to make his colleagues uncomfortable, so much so that they assumed that he was familiar with magic. Some doctors and nurses would even call him The Sorcerer behind his back.  Buteyko’s forecast was not based on the supernatural but on precise scientific observations. He knew: that when PMP reaches its bottom, life comes to its end.

 

You probably noticed that there is also an upper part to Buteyko’s chart. What happens when PMP goes above the norm? Is it even possible? Yes. Many of Konstantin’s students had PMP of 120 and even 180 seconds, and you can train yourself to go that far. Many advanced spiritual practitioners, particularly yogis, belong to this level. From Buteyko’s medical perspective, this state of human well-being is abnormal but in a positive way. When PMP goes beyond 60 seconds, the person starts developing extraordinary abilities for example, their intuition becomes stronger, their inner monologue quiets down, confidence strengthens and the decision-making process becomes easier. During the late stage of his life, Konstantin Buteyko possessed some extraordinary skills, or as yogis call it ‘siddhis’: he was known for his ability to foresee the future, heal with his hands, access information telepathically, among other things. He developed these ˜powers’ by applying his own method.

 

High PMP also reassures a long and active life. Interestingly, in some yoga traditions, the life span was measured not by years but by the number of breaths. Some believe that every person is given a fixed number of breaths to spend. If breathing is heavy, it will be used quickly and an individual will end up dying young. Shallow breathing allows this precious capital to be stretched, resulting in many years of productive life.

 

Reduced breathing consumption definitely slows aging. I know it from my own experience as well as the experience of our students.  When I start working with someone, I know that if this person is diligent, in two or three months their friends will start noticing changes. Normally, people ask What happened to you? You look so much better now! The answer: increased oxygenation of skin as well as the whole body due to a higher level of carbon dioxide in the lungs.

 

Please keep in mind that the Buteyko Breathing Method is not a pill and it will not change your health instantaneously. I’ve observed many people become impatient. It takes at least six months for the immune, nervous, and other bodily systems to rehabilitate. The training facilitates this process but there is no way to jump from being an invalid to being a superman. Recovery is a gradual process; even though this method is the most effective and fastest compared to any healing technique I am familiar with, it still requires time. If your health is seriously impaired, most likely, your PMP won’t reach 60 seconds soon. It does not matter; what is important is that your PMP will be rising and you will be following the path to perfect health."

 

Artour Rakhimov talks about the upper levels of his chart:

 

"Health Levels that correspond to super-health (8-12)

Dr. Buteyko also identified 5 zones and 5 Health Levels in the Buteyko Table of Health Zones that correspond to super-health or super-resilience. Transition to each next row above the Buteyko norm (Health Level 7) triggers certain biochemical processes, and many students report the appearance of lost (and often unknown) amazing abilities of the human body.

 

For example, there is a natural reduction of sleep down to 2-4 hours. Only 2 hours of perfect sleep are sufficient for people who have about 2.5 – 3 minutes CP. I regularly observe this effect in my students: with 60 s CP, all of them report that they require 4 hours of sleep and cannot sleep more. Buteyko, in his interview, claimed that his usual sleep was 2 hours long.

 

At around Health Level 9 (100 s morning and daily CP numbers), the following effects become common:

 

– the ability to survive for days without food, water, and sleep, while still able to maintain a high CP and energy level to search for   

    food and water and fight for life.

 

– the ability to digest wider varieties of fibers – broken bones, deep cuts, and severe wounds can be healed in a few days, instead of

    weeks or months. Scars, if any, disappear within days.

 

– painless childbirth for pregnant females.

 

– production of antibodies in saliva that prevents cavities and the formation of plaque (no need to visit dentists 1-2 times every

    year).

 

– extrasensory (aura skills or ability to see an aura around other people), psychic and telepathic abilities for over 2 min CP and some

    other effects related to decalcification and activation of the pineal gland (and thymus gland), and natural gamma brain waves or

    super consciousness (not just as-if during meditation but naturally and all the time)."

Rakhimov's talking about the Gamma brain wave state corresponds with the work of Neuroscientist Richard J. Davidson and Psychologist Daniel Goleman.

 

Altered Traits: Science Reveals How Meditation Changes Your Mind, Brain, and Body
https://a.co/d/a1C60Av
 

Superhumans: The remarkable brain waves of high-level meditators
 

DANIEL GOLEMAN: "My co-author of the book Altered Traits is a neuroscientist, Richard Davidson. He has a lab at the University of Wisconsin. It's a very large lab, he has dedicated scanners, he has about 100 people working there, and he was able to do some remarkable research where he flew Olympic level meditators—who live in Nepal or India typically, some in France—he flew them over to the lab and put them through a protocol in his brain scanners and did state-of-the-art tests and the results were just astounding. We found, for example, or he found that their brain waves are really different.
 

Perhaps the most remarkable findings in the Olympic level meditators have to do with what's called a gamma wave. All of us get gamma for a very short period when we solve a problem we've been grappling with, even if it's something that's vexed us for months. We get about half a second of gamma; it's the strongest wave in the EEG spectrum. We get it when we bite into an apple or imagine biting into an apple, and for a brief period, a split-second, inputs from taste, sound, smell, vision, all of that come together in that imagined bite into the apple. But that lasts a very short period in an ordinary EEG.
 

What was stunning was that the Olympic level meditators, these are people who have done up to 62,000 lifetime hours of meditation, their brainwave shows gamma very strong all the time as a lasting trait just no matter what they're doing. It's not a state effect, it's not during their meditation alone, but it's just their everyday state of mind. We actually have no idea what that means experientially. Science has never seen it before.
 

We also find that in these Olympic-level meditators when we asked them, for example, to do a meditation on compassion their level of gamma jumps 700 to 800 percent in a few seconds. This has also never been seen by science. So we have to assume that the special state of consciousness that you see in the highest level meditators is a lot like something described in the classical meditation literature centuries ago, which is that there is a state of being that is not like our ordinary state. Sometimes it's called liberation, enlightenment, awake, whatever the word may be we suspect there's really no vocabulary that captures what that might be. The people that we've talked to in this Olympic level group say it's very spacious and you're wide open, you're prepared for whatever may come, we just don't know. But we do know it's quite remarkable."

 

I am currently at a 40-second control pause upon waking up. I've gotten up to 56 seconds, but I have additional lifestyle changes that I need to do (additional exercise and supplements to lower the systemic inflammation we all have as we get older) and I'm also increasing my practice time. My pulse rate is at 67 bpm, so I'm almost at 50 seconds. Getting past 40 seconds is actually the most difficult part, according to Rakhimov.

 

Here's a rather excellent Wikipedia article on Taixi (Embryonic Breathing)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taixi_(embryonic_breathing)

 

This excerpt from Joseph Needham and Lu Gwei-Djen's "Science and Civilisation in China: Volume 5, Part 5, Chemistry and Chemical Technology Spagyrical Discovery and Invention: Physiological Alchemy, Cambridge University Press (1983)" correlates with what I've previously written:

 

"In Chapter 8 ("Resolving Hesitations"), Ge Hong praises embryonic breathing and tells an underwater breath-holding anecdote about his granduncle Ge Xuan (164–244), who was prominent in early Daoism and the first recipient of the Lingbao sacred scriptures. Ge Hong seems to have understood taixi as the culmination of the long-term daily practice of xingqi "pneuma circulation" (Campany 2002: 365). First, he describes xingqi as a potent panacea and gives a detailed description of timing taixi breath-holding by counting heartbeats.
 

By practicing the circulation of the [qi] [xingqi 行氣] one can cure the hundred diseases, one can walk through the midst of plagues and epidemics, one can ward off snakes and tigers, stop bleeding from wounds, stay underwater or walk across it, free oneself from hunger and thirst, and protract one's years. The most important thing is simply to (know how to) breathe like an embryo [胎息]. He who can breathe like a foetus [胎息] will respire [xuxi 噓吸] as if still in the womb [胞胎之中], without using nose or mouth; thus will the Tao be achieved. When one first begins to learn how to circulate the [qi], one must inhale through the nose and then close up that breath. While it is thus hidden within, one counts up to 120 heartbeats [~ 90 seconds] and then exhales it (gently) through the mouth. Neither during exhalation nor inhalation should one hear with one's ears the sound of the breathing, and one should make sure that more goes in than comes out. A wild goose feather may be placed in front of the nose and mouth, and during exhalation, this should not show any movement. After continual practice one may very gradually increase the number of heart-beats (during which the breath is held) to as much as 1000 [~ 12 minutes 30 seconds], and when this proficiency is reached, an old man will be able to grow younger daily, returning [huan 還] to youth by one day every day. (tr. Needham 1983: 143-144)"

 

This article also discusses the dangers of the practice. I've provided an update on the new static apnea record holder:

 

"Although the Baopuzi says that Ge Xuan could hold his breath underwater all afternoon, even allowing for typical hagiographic exaggeration, attempting extreme biqi (閉氣, "breath-holding") could be dangerous for taixi embryonic respiration practitioners. The current world record for static apnea (without prior breathing of 100% oxygen) is 11 minutes and 54 seconds, by Branko Petrović (2014). "

 

"The historian of Chinese science Joseph Needham describes the many side effects of biqi and hypothesizes why early adepts eventually abandoned it. This breath-holding technique produced considerable hypoxemia (insufficient oxygen in the blood) with its strange effects, "buzzing in the ears, vertigo, perspiration, sensations of heat and formication in the extremities, fainting and headache." Furthermore, if Daoist breath-holding was practiced in temples on high mountains, it could result in chronic mountain sickness, with symptoms of "headache, dizziness, tinnitus, breathlessness, palpitations, sleep disturbance, fatigue, confusion, cyanosis, and notably loss of appetite." This could have made the delimited diet of the recluses easier to bear, "contributing as it did in its turn to the reduction of cardiac strain and heightened awareness and well-being consequent on the loss of all excess body weight" (1983: 145)."

The claims of long life can be attributed to the adept's ability to go into a hypometabolic state. In other words, human hibernation.
 

Diving Seals & Meditating Yogis: Strategic Metabolic Retreats
https://www.amazon.com/Diving-Seals-Meditating-Yogis-Strategic-ebook/dp/B00V09PCBC

 

Description:

The comparative physiology of seemingly disparate organisms often serves as a surprising pathway to biological enlightenment. How appropriate, then, that Robert Elsner sheds new light on the remarkable physiology of diving seals through comparison with members of our own species on quests toward enlightenment: meditating yogis.
 

As Elsner reveals, survival in extreme conditions such as those faced by seals is often not about running for cover or coming up for air, but rather about working within the confines of an environment and suppressing normal bodily function. Animals in this withdrawn state display reduced resting metabolic rates and are temporarily less dependent upon customary levels of oxygen. For diving seals—creatures especially well-adapted to prolonged submergence in the ocean’s cold depths—such periods of rest lengthen dive endurance. But while human divers share modest, brief adjustments of suppressed metabolism with diving seals, it is the practiced response achieved during deep meditation that is characterized by metabolic rates well below normal levels, sometimes even approaching those of non-exercising diving seals. The comparison does not end here: hibernating animals, infants during birth, near-drowning victims, and clams at low tide all also display similarly reduced metabolisms.
 

By investigating these states—and the regulatory functions that help maintain them—across a range of species, Elsner offers suggestive insight into the linked biology of survival and well-being.

Here's a possible example by way of a story by Robert Svoboda. Obviously anecdotal:
 

When I Met A 200-Year-Old Saadhu - True Story by Robert Svoboda

 

So I've just laid out all of the past and current research that validates the claims made in various Buddhist, Taoist, and Yogic texts.

Research and test these methods yourself to confirm.
 

Again, read the disclaimer at the beginning. These practices are serious stuff. You're literally changing your respiration patterns.

 

If you decide to pursue this, learn from Sasha at the Breath Center. Get quarterly physicals and blood tests to ensure that you're not hurting your system. Monitor your vitals daily with a Fitbit, Lumen, Blood Pressure Monitor, and Glucose Monitor.

 

Just attempt to get to a I-minute control pause (breath suspension) first, then decide how far you're going to go from there.

DO NOT USE ANY FORCE!! PERIOD!!

In part 4 I discuss a relatively safer way of getting results. Cheers!

Edited December 19, 2023 by Infolad1

[GreatAutumn]

3 minutes ago, Pak_Satrio said:

Mate I paid £50

You payed that to a different electric teacher, did you not? We are debating specifically Rudis Authentic neigong here. 
And disregarding the fact that guy openly admits to charging from a socket, do you have any evidence that it's not faked except for you getting electrocuted? Did you take any measurement, any infrared videos, anything at all? Did the master strip to show he has nothing on him? Why does one electric qi master charge so little while another charges 100 times more? Doesn't that raise any red flags to you? Did this electric master detect your training with the other electric master? Why doesn't everyone from Rudi's school just go to this other dude that's so much more cheaper? It just raises more red flags and questions as far as I'm concerned
You guys keep saying come and see, but it's never shown that going to these guys proves anything at all, you just get a great show, some tcm done on you and you get electrocuted . And less money in your wallet. 
 

[HumanElectric]

15 hours ago, GreatAutumn said:

This is a false analogy. The dispute here is not whether electricity exists, it's whether the fence can generate electricity on it's own, without being plugged into a generator. And if someone touching the fence can differentiate between a self generating fence and a fence that's plugged into a socket.

Your body generates bio electricity and is plugged into what to do so?? According to my understanding, a few things that we do or consume help to generate bio electricity, such as eating food, breathing air, moving around or exercising etc.

In fact, I can even hold the probes of a voltmeter, that I so happen to use to measure the voltage of my car battery and it’ll even measure the amount of voltage, that’s present on the surface of my hands or fingers. 

15 hours ago, GreatAutumn said:

I know for a fact that a group of users here have asked one of these electrical qi masters for a remunerated private demonstration that would be recorded and measured with scientific equipment and they declined. As far as I understand it the guy is the successor of the first master of this Rudi guy that we're debating here. So things aren't just as straight forward as you make it out to be. But go ahead and prove everybody wrong. Next time you pay to meet them, buy a infrared camera and handheld metal detector and see how that goes, maybe post it on the internet for everyone to see. I even find it quite incredible that out of all these people that appear in the videos and payed so much money for this experience no one even attempted something like this, unless of course it's not really allowed
 

Did they at least invite him out to have some tea, before asking to probe his brain, X-ray him and dissect every fiber of his being? If not, how rude.

 

In all seriousness though, demonstrating these things is the last thought on their mind. They’re looking to utilize their time and energy wisely, by mostly focusing on treating people.

 

I’m not patting anyone down with a metal detector, but you can buy an infrared camera and send it to me. I’ll use it to record the footage for you.

 

Also Rudi has already mentioned he’s open to being tested in private. I won’t add anymore to that. The rest is up to you.   

Edited December 19, 2023 by HumanElectric

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

3 minutes ago, GreatAutumn said:

You payed that to a different electric teacher, did you not? We are debating specifically Rudis Authentic neigong here. 
And disregarding the fact that guy openly admits to charging from a socket, do you have any evidence that it's not faked except for you getting electrocuted? Did you take any measurement, any infrared videos, anything at all? Did the master strip to show he has nothing on him? Why does one electric qi master charge so little while another charges 100 times more? Doesn't that raise any red flags to you? Did this electric master detect your training with the other electric master? Why doesn't everyone from Rudi's school just go to this other dude that's so much more cheaper? It just raises more red flags and questions as far as I'm concerned
You guys keep saying come and see, but it's never shown that going to these guys proves anything at all, you just get a great show, some tcm done on you and you get electrocuted . And less money in your wallet. 
 

Ah I can’t be bothered anymore 

[HumanElectric]

1 minute ago, Pak_Satrio said:

Ah I can’t be bothered anymore 

I feel you bro, think I’m going to take my leave to. 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

Just now, HumanElectric said:

I feel you bro, think I’m going to take my leave to. 

Yea I’m just gonna stick around to read @Infolad1’s posts. At least I learn something from them not go around in the same circular argument.

 

If you believe in faqi, cool, if you don’t, also cool. I don’t care anymore.

[GreatAutumn]

14 minutes ago, HumanElectric said:

 

In all seriousness though, demonstrating these things is the last thought on their mind.

Very convenient and not at all suspect.

[wandelaar]

Watched some of the video's linked to by @Infolad1

 

Very interesting stuff. And much more useful that continually repeating arguments that have already been made here numerous times before and have been ignored just as often. The good thing about infolad1's video's is that they seem to be scientifically legit. At least I haven't seen anything suspect yet...

[Infolad1]

I just read the posts that have happened since I wrote part 3 of my Siddhis explanation.

 

This thread has deteriorated due to a few people who will never be satisfied with the replies they get.

 

It's also unacceptable to have older members, who should know better and are supposedly teachers,

replying to new people on here terribly, as I've just read. There's something wrong with you.

 

If you want to prove what Rudi does is real, then put your money up. I'll be paying him the $400 this year.

I'm always down to learn something new. I saw him talking on Trebor 7's YouTube channel. He knows his stuff.

 

This is Trebor 7 doing some impossible things.

 

BIOKINESIS - Moving Trees & Weeds

 

This is the Interview that he did with Rudi:

 

Neigong Instructor Reveals Secret Energy Cultivation Methods, Dantian Activation & More!

 

I paid $2K to Master Tu to learn Iron Body and Iron Crotch Neigong. From his training, I've lifted 120 lbs. with my privates,

taken punches in demos that bounce off of me with no pain, and turbocharged all of my cultivation training.

So I've proven to myself and others that it's "real". I've taught others how to do It ( And yes, they paid. When you pay,

you pay attention. You don't want to pay, fine. But enough already with the complaining about it. Don't do It).

 

I remember Master Tu asked us to go to Home Depot and get some solid metal bars and rods. He gave us the

measurements. By the end of the weekend, he'd taught us enough Iron body to resist blows and bend the rods in 

the pit of our necks. He had us buy two dozen eggs and did light body practice, standing on them while painting 

a picture of Laozi. Then he chopped the bars into Vs.

 

Both Master Tu and my Sifu can do Faqi. I've both seen and felt it. Once you understand what the body can do, it's 

no big deal. Western science is just now finding out about the amazing properties of the body's Fascial system.

 

Master Tu pulled a small plane with his privates for National Geographic. When we asked why, he said "Marketing." 

 

Here's a photo of some of Master Tu's students lifting:

Those numbers are the poundage.

As my Sifu has said to me and others countless times, "There are some very interesting people in the world who can do some very interesting things." 

 

Doing the standing postures in coordination with the breathing creates a piezoelectrical effect and eventually a pyroelectrical effect.

 

I'm doing a thread on it this week.

 

There's nothing fake about what Rudi can do. People on here complaining have just never experienced it or learned how to do It.
So all they can do is speculate and belittle, like what's happening now.

 

After a minute, your best bet is to just ignore them. Their mind's made up. An actual direct experience of Faqi wouldn't even matter.

 

To demonstrate this, let me tell you folks a story.

 

Back in 2013 or so, I had learned Master Tu's Iron Crotch techniques. At the time I could lift 50 lbs. (It's a satin cloth attached to the root of your boys that's used to do the lift). Our school was doing a demo of our various forms and at the end, I came out with a satin skirt on, did some Iron Body with my steel broom, and then lifted the 50 lbs. We had a guy come up from the audience, and I opened the skirt so that he could see that I was actually lifting it. He looked, looked at me, gave a thumbs up, and sat back down. 

 

The next day a friend of mine came up to me and said, "You know that the guys in the audience said that what you did was fake."

 

I was shocked. "But we had someone from the audience come up!"

 

"They said that he was in on It."

 

I was very upset about this, at the time. My friend, who was female, then said to me, "Don't worry about It. They're sitting there with their woman, watching a guy lift 50 lbs. with his Johnson. They can't do It. So what ELSE are they going to say?" 

 

Each of us lives in our own reality box. Some people's reality boxes are just smaller than others. Cheers!