Rudi Authentic Neigong

[wandelaar]

19 minutes ago, Partez said:

As for the hypnosis stuff, I am able to achieve pretty much all phenomena related to Qi demonstrations typically presented, via hypnosis.

 

There's a tendency to think that being able to achieve something by means of hypnosis somehow disproves the reality of the phenomena in question. I used to think that way myself. But this isn't the only way to see it. Hypnosis can have real physiological consequences, so it isn't simply make-believe. Maybe the very same real processes lie at the basis of what is called hypnosis by some and internal Qi phenomena by others.

[liminal_luke]

Personally, I think Rudi´s teaching and abilities are genuine.  Assuming that Taoist Texts would be interested in learning what Rudi knows (if only he could suspend his disbelief) than Taoist Texts is missing out on a good learning opportunity.  That´s too bad but I´m not gonna cry over it.  Taoist Texts seems to be pretty happy with what he´s doing so I´m happy to leave him alone.  As for everybody else, I´m confident that the people who have the right karma to learn from Rudi will find their way into his program.  

[Maddie]

I also guarantee results when I take money. The result being that you have less money and I have more but it's still a result 🤭

[wandelaar]

20 minutes ago, Maddie said:

I also guarantee results when I take money. The result being that you have less money and I have more but it's still a result 🤭

 

You must have a success rate of 100%. That's hard to beat!

[Taoist Texts]

4 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

so I’m calling him out on it.

 

4 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

This is a very bold claim, I don’t think I’ve seen any other teacher say this on Daobums before, so again, if he is so sure that what he does is correct

 

4 hours ago, Pak_Satrio said:

every time he’s asked about it we get nothing from him except vague non answers. Are there any students of his on Daobums? Do we know his background? If someone chooses to spend their time going to every thread of a practice they don’t follow, they better be able to back up what they say. In this case we’ve had nothing from him in multiple threads. As far as I’m concerned he’s just fantasist using google translate on old documents who is larping as a teacher. 

look man if you are so worked about the poor old me all you have to do is to start a thread on me and go full third degree. i promise to answer to the best of my ability, cross my heart. in the meantime can we please not to harsh everybody's mellow here? peace man

[Maddie]

I think as soon as we see healthy skepticism as a bad thing is when we enter extremism. 

[Maddie]

Hopefully I don't sound too dense here, BUT as an acupuncturist I've never really understood alchemy. 

 

Honestly if the goal is to be healthy and get "qi" moving through the meridians and built up simply going to the gym or doing Pilates is an excellent way to do that.

 

If the goal is to live forever and shoot lightning out your nose, um sorry but that isn't real. 

 

So not really sure what alchemy is all about.

Edited December 1, 2023 by Maddie

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

1 hour ago, Maddie said:

I think as soon as we see healthy skepticism as a bad thing is when we enter extremism. 

Healthy skepticism is a good thing, but it’s a shame to not have an open mind and not explore the possibilities. You will miss out on so much by dismissing everything. Better to at least try to see if something is real for yourself than dismiss it completely because of what someone else thinks.

[Maddie]

8 minutes ago, Pak_Satrio said:

 You will miss out on so much by dismissing everything. Better to at least try to see if something is real for yourself than dismiss it completely because of what someone else thinks.

 

Seeing if something is real based on evidence is the definition of healthy skepticism. 

[S:C]

1 minute ago, Maddie said:

evidence

What is evidence? 
Sense data? Interpreted by mind?

 

[Maddie]

2 minutes ago, S:C said:

What is evidence? 
Sense data? Interpreted by mind?

 

 

By evidence I mean objective evidence that can be measured by anyone with the same instruments and the results will be the same regardless of who is doing the measuring. This is the definition of objective evidence. 

 

We can objectively measure the temperature with a thermometer. As long as the individual using the thermometer uses it correctly the reading will be the same as everyone else taking the temperature of the same object at the same time for example. 

Edited December 1, 2023 by Maddie

[S:C]

What is unhealthy scepticism, then?

[Maddie]

3 minutes ago, S:C said:

What is unhealthy scepticism, then?

 

1 hour ago, Pak_Satrio said:

Healthy skepticism is a good thing, but it’s a shame to not have an open mind and not explore the possibilities. You will miss out on so much by dismissing everything. Better to at least try to see if something is real for yourself than dismiss it completely because of what someone else thinks.

 

[Maddie]

24 minutes ago, S:C said:

What is unhealthy scepticism, then?

 

Here's an example.

 

If one makes the claim that they discovered a new planet in the solar system, healthy skepticism says "oh really? show me the method with which you used to find it, and then I'll see if I can find it using the same method".

 

Unhealthy skepticism would just dismiss it out of hand and say "no you didn't" without seeing if it was verifiable. 

[wandelaar]

Ideally that is how it should go. But . . . the internet abounds with claims, you could spent your entire life checking and even then would only have succeeded in checking  a minute part of all that is being claimed. How do you deal with that?

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

3 hours ago, Maddie said:

Hopefully I don't sound too dense here, BUT as an acupuncturist I've never really understood alchemy. 

 

Honestly if the goal is to be healthy and get "qi" moving through the meridians and built up simply going to the gym or doing Pilates is an excellent way to do that.

 

If the goal is to live forever and shoot lightning out your nose, um sorry but that isn't real. 

 

So not really sure what alchemy is all about.

 
Forgot to mention earlier but the point of emitting “electric qi” is for medical purposes. If you check out these videos that I posted earlier they show and explain some

of the process. It might interest you as an acupuncturist.

 

 

 

[Maddie]

3 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

Ideally that is how it should go. But . . . the internet abounds with claims, you could spent your entire life checking and even then would only have succeeded in checking  a minute part of all that is being claimed. How do you deal with that?

 

I would suggest the way any other researcher goes about deciding what to investigate. Is this important to me to verify and if so why? aka the "so what test". 

 

If someone makes a claim that if you walk around naked smeared in mayonnaise you will live to be 200 and we see 180 year old's walking around smeared in mayonnaise then that might be worth investigating.

 

On the other hand someone says that cookies are actually made by elves in a tree and you know for damn sure you saw goblins in a cave making cookies you might not want to spend your time on something that is either not credible or not important to you since you might not eat cookies in the first place.  

[wandelaar]

So you would avoid commenting on claims you haven't personally checked?

Edited December 1, 2023 by wandelaar

[Maddie]

33 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

So you would avoid commenting on claims you haven't personally checked?

 

Not necessarily. I've never created an atomic bomb, but scientists have, have demonstrated it works, and shown how to reproduce the process. If credible, peer reviewed, and repeatable research has been done and published, that is sufficient for me. 

 

*youtube videos that can't be verified on the other hand are not evidence. 

Edited December 1, 2023 by Maddie

[wandelaar]

Ah - so if claims are checked by others whom you find credible sources than that's also OK. Fair enough. Still there will always be loads of claims that you haven't checked yourself and others whom you trust haven't checked either. The question remains what to do about those? 

[Maddie]

9 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

Ah - so if claims are checked by others whom you find credible sources than that's also OK. Fair enough. Still there will always be loads of claims that you haven't checked yourself and others whom you trust haven't checked either. The question remains what to do about those? 

 

 If I'm going to trust someone's claim it is because they can present verifiable evidence that stands up to investigation aka "the scientific method". So its based on the research method, not the person. 

 

About an infinite number of claims I go back to my "so what" example. If proven true, does it matter, and why does it matter? The Buddha used the illustration of a handful of leaves. He held a handful of leaves and said "this handful of leaves is what I have taught you. The forest contains what I have not taught you. What I have taught you is sufficient for liberation."  

[wandelaar]

I read that as that you don't care about claim's that you're not interested in even if they were true. And that the problem of taking a stand as to the likelihood of such claims consequently is unlikely to present itself.

[Maddie]

21 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

I read that as that you don't care about claim's that you're not interested in even if they were true. And that the problem of taking a stand as to the likelihood of such claims consequently is unlikely to present itself.

 

One can spend a lifetime trying to prove or disprove infinite claims. Better to focus on the things that matter. 

 

I could try to prove that dinosaurs had a secret space ship hidden under the ice of Antarctica, but since there is very little reason to assume so, why would I want to spend my limited time doing that? 

[Taoist Texts]

13 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

Assuming that Taoist Texts would be interested in learning what Rudi knows (if only he could suspend his disbelief) than Taoist Texts is missing out on a good learning opportunity. 

what is going on with any kind of laying of hands is that 10% of humans atavistically feel and do what they are signaled by the leader. Its a survival mechanism hard-wired in the reptilian brain: a strong external signal from the leader switches off the individual volition. A flock of animals following the flock leader has a much higher chance of survival than a flock where every individual decides for himself. No neigong is necessary for an individual to experience a shock, as on the vid, note that the pastor has to physically touch the faithful  to trigger the mechanism.  They are been told that they will fall - they fall; if they would have been told they would get a healing electric shock - they would feel a a healing electric shock.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slain_in_the_Spirit

[Sahaja]

So only 10% feel it? From all the examples of debunking of phenomena I’ve seen here based on the widespread, foolproof method of hypnosis, hypnosis only works on 10%?. my cynicism feels dashed and I am aghast!. I hope I don’t have to start believing in esoteric phenomena now.