[Patrick Brown]

Now I've wondered this more and more as the years have ticked by and as my understanding has grown. There's no doubt there's wisdom in the Tao Te Ching but there's also a certain air of resignation to ones lot in life which of course would help those that wish to control!

 

Now the Chinese, as a people, obviously exist as a hive mentality, hence communism, and this is perhaps why they're so successful. Unfortunately they probably also win first prize for being the biggest bunch of slaves on the planet. Of course there are some Chinese that aren't enslaved and wish to break out of the enforced system they live in but of course these people are very much in the minority. The biggest trick has always been to convince people they are free when they are in fact enslaved!

 

Most, if not all, social structures are built on some form of mind control so it makes me laugh when you get a Christian finding Islam or a Buddhist turning to Catholicism. At least any true Taoist is quite happy to tell another Taoist to stick the Tao Te Ching up his arse! No homoerotic leanings just non-attachment and multi speed!!

 

So what do you think?

[nightwatchdog]

The Tao te Ching may be a Chinese text, but that does not mean that Chinese people understand it better than anyone else.

 

Lao-tzu's aim in writing TtC was to point out how people could gain control over themselves, by opening to what they really are. One who is in tune with the Tao, is not subject to slavery in any form, even if she's forced to work in a labor camp. Does the wind exert effort to turn the blades of a windmill? Does it resent the turbine?

 

Noneresistance to what is happening in the present is the key to the power of wind, and the only way to harness that power. It is also the only freedom any of us can really enjoy.

[Patrick Brown]

Noneresistance to what is happening in the present is the key to the power of wind, and the only way to harness that power. It is also the only freedom any of us can really enjoy.

Well to be fair I can see where you're coming from but what about being told what to do by a government?

 

Just for the record I see all societies as machines of slavery. I also doubt that Lao Tze ever existed not that it's of any importance.

[gendao]

Now I've wondered this more and more as the years have ticked by and as my understanding has grown. There's no doubt there's wisdom in the Tao Te Ching but there's also a certain air of resignation to ones lot in life which of course would help those that wish to control!

 

Now the Chinese, as a people, obviously exist as a hive mentality, hence communism, and this is perhaps why they're so successful. Unfortunately they probably also win first prize for being the biggest bunch of slaves on the planet. Of course there are some Chinese that aren't enslaved and wish to break out of the enforced system they live in but of course these people are very much in the minority. The biggest trick has always been to convince people they are free when they are in fact enslaved!

I think Confucianism is more responsibile for Chinese collectivism. Or perhaps an outgrowth of it. There is a chicken & egg, feedback loop here...

 

But Taoism is more about rugged individualism, the prototypical hippy "mountain man."

 

I think it can lead to passivity if misinterpreted, though. When really it just means surrendering the ego to the Tao...and letting the Tao guide you.

[Patrick Brown]

I think it can lead to passivity if misinterpreted, though. When really it just means surrendering the ego to the Tao...and letting the Tao guide you.

Yes I agree with that. Let the Tao lead and not the state.

[Uncle Screwtape]

Lao Tzu spoke of 'wielding the Tao of the ancients to manage the existence of today'. So, far from seeing that the TTC tells me to surrender my ego and let Tao be my guide, I see that it tells me the place my ego or self (I don't believe it mentions the ego at all) has in the universe, and how to let Tao work for me and not just to me. It also tells me how to cleanse my self, to make it healthy, so that the negative aspects I once called 'ego' but which I see now as the completely unnecessary defense mechanisms surrounding my ego, are not there to cause me damage.

 

So no, I do not see the TTC as a form of mind control. Quite the opposite, in fact. On the other hand, what we read into such things is usually a reflection of us, I think, so no two people will ever completely agree.

 

Screwtape

[松永道]

 

The biggest trick has always been to convince people they are free when they are in fact enslaved!

 

 

Good rule of thumb, so which people think they are the most free of all? I believe it's America that has perfected this trick to a new and frightening degree. Control in China seems primitive in comparison.

 

Chinese people do have a more collective society, but it revolves around family. Families are still and have always been China's social security network.

 

As for the Dao, yielding to natural law is far different from submitting to the fabricated laws of Man.

[林愛偉]

Now I've wondered this more and more as the years have ticked by and as my understanding has grown. There's no doubt there's wisdom in the Tao Te Ching but there's also a certain air of resignation to ones lot in life which of course would help those that wish to control!

 

Now the Chinese, as a people, obviously exist as a hive mentality, hence communism, and this is perhaps why they're so successful. Unfortunately they probably also win first prize for being the biggest bunch of slaves on the planet. Of course there are some Chinese that aren't enslaved and wish to break out of the enforced system they live in but of course these people are very much in the minority. The biggest trick has always been to convince people they are free when they are in fact enslaved!

 

Most, if not all, social structures are built on some form of mind control so it makes me laugh when you get a Christian finding Islam or a Buddhist turning to Catholicism. At least any true Taoist is quite happy to tell another Taoist to stick the Tao Te Ching up his arse! No homoerotic leanings just non-attachment and multi speed!!

 

So what do you think?

 

 

With this view, you will have to consider the slavery of materialism, capitalism, socialism, democracy, totalitarianism, etc that takes place in the world. It isn't the governments which enslave people, it is the people themselves which hold the views of being enslaved.

 

Chinese society, though Communist, is actually a well run social network. Individuals cause the problems with their greed and arrogance. The people here are quite free actually. They work individually as a whole to keep the laws well established..yet there are some who don't and that is quite common in all countries. China isn't totally what people see it is from news and propaganda from News agencies/Governments.

 

Working together is an important method in all societies. It keeps things tight. Less crime, yet there will be those who wants more. It is inevitable that someone will freak out because of their own conditions in their mind.

 

Even in Daoism, not everyone believes in wholesome practices, because Daoism was simply just lifestyle cultivation. Then Dao De Jing manifested, and there were extensive methods which laid out the path of mindfulness. Though rightfully understanding it is dependent on the capacity of the cultivator or reader.

Many people have translated Dao De Jing, and have led millions into wrong views. Many others have produced well translations, but they are not directing their efforts at millions of dollars.

 

Individual understanding is different from understanding how things work collectively. Individuality is about one's own views and how to uphold them, collectively, that doesn't work.

 

Understanding the collective, is putting down one's views and upholding the community, society, cultivating methods which lead people to non-greed, non-anger, and non-ignorance. Yet again, people hold on to their own views, and do not understand how they affect others.

 

Peace,

Lin

 

 

Good rule of thumb, so which people think they are the most free of all? I believe it's America that has perfected this trick to a new and frightening degree. Control in China seems primitive in comparison.

 

Chinese people do have a more collective society, but it revolves around family. Families are still and have always been China's social security network.

 

As for the Dao, yielding to natural law is far different from submitting to the fabricated laws of Man.

 

 

 

Yet, moving freely within the limitations of man-made law is just the Dao.

 

That means working with, not against. Working to benefit others, not take away.

In that light, there is no law being imposed.

 

Peace,

Lin