Your Experience of Standing Meditation

[Nuralshamal]

Dear Dao Bums,

I would love to hear your story and experience of serious, long term, daily standing practice

The pros, the cons, was it worth while, what did standing do to you / for you? Physically, energetically and spiritually.

In order to kick of this exchange of personal, lived experience, I will also share my own experiences.

However, please refrain from sharing theories, opinions, views of different schools, your viewpoints, these are all interesting of course, but I would like to keep this thread completely clean of that, and instead solely focus on lived, personal experiences.

The end goal is to collect actual "data" on standing from real people, and see which patterns emerge over time, with more and more people sharing their stories.

My Own Experiences So Far, 4 parts
1) 2017, First Encounter With Standing
I first heard about the idea of long, static, standing meditation in 2017 from Lam Kam Chuen's book "Way of Energy".

One evening during my deployment to Africa with the UN, I couldn't fall asleep. I thought to myself "okay, let me try this standing thing".

I stood up and did my best, and managed to stand for what felt "like a really long time", realistically it was probably between 10 and 40 minutes.

My experience was that each time it felt like "it's impossible to stand any longer, my shoulders are burning too much, my legs are too tense" or whichever physical thing was annoying me, I used my willpower to keep standing anyway. 

Each time I managed to "hold on", it was as if a kind of breakthrough happened, and the physical tension was relieved by a surge of energy.

This happened maybe 5-10 times, and each time I felt energy surging in my body. 

When I finally finished and laid down to sleep in my tent (yes, it was a primitive army camp), I had the best and deepest sleep since maybe my teenage years.

When I woke up in the morning and felt so incredibly refreshed, I made a mental note to myself "I must remember this standing meditation, there is really something here, some day I will explore it further".

2) 2018, standing as a supplement to lovemaking
In 2018 as part of a daoist lovemaking and sex qigong retreat in Asia, there were some general qigong exercises taught to supplement the sexual exercises. There were 2-3 moving exercises which took about 5-10 minutes, and the other part was 4 standing, static exercises, each held for 5 minutes, totaling 20 minutes.

When I tried these 20 minutes of standing, the instruction was not to blink at all during the whole time if possible, but if the eyes started watering, you could blink. To be honest I didn't experience anything at all, other than it felt kind of weird to just stand still and stare. Every 5 minutes you switched position, which was a huge relief on the shoulders.

At this point I made a mental note to myself not to explore standing any further, as I didn't feel like it did anything for me.

3) 2022, 1 hour squatting monkey standing challenge
I heard that the fastest way to build the lower dan tien and open the microcosmic orbit was through 1 hour standing squatting monkey.

I decided to give it a go.

It took me about 1 month to work up to standing for 60 minutes.

What I experienced progressively during that 1 month while practicing was that I would get warm, start sweating, I would feel qi surging through my body, I would feel warmth in my lower dan tien, I would feel vibration in my microcosmic orbit, and towards the end I started seeing a light between my eyebrows.

So I felt a lot of stuff going on energetically and spiritually. However, the posture didn't feel healthy to me at all. It felt like I was training my body to be slouched over because of the way you're standing, and the shoulders are slightly forward too. Instead of putting my physical body into alignment, I felt like I was training it to be out of alignment.

In the end my conclusion was that I would revisit the practice in the future if I ever became desperate to work on my third eye, but for now I would discontinue the practice, simply because it didn't feel good for my physical body.

I felt other practices I knew were faster, easier and just felt better physically.

4) 2023, 100 days standing like a pillar challenge
This is the most recent, and is in progress. This is also what prompted me to start this thread, simply because I would love to hear your experiences.

I'm about 31 days in as of today, and have had some quite interesting experiences.

The first 25 days were progressively getting more and more hellish. It felt like my body simply was not designed to stand. No matter what I did, I just couldn't get my body into proper alignment, and especially my shoulders were killing me, no matter what I did.

I searched online (including on this forum), and read everything I could about standing.

I actually felt like there was not too much quality information out there; most was people either bashing it as a waste of time or downright dangerous, or people praising it like the holy grail. That's also why I wanted to make this post, I want personal, lived experiences, not people ideologizing. I want us all to share our own experiences to over time build potentially build empirical evidence.

The only reason I didn't quit, in spite of me feeling like I was going through meaningless suffering daily, was that I found a facebook group called "1000 hours of standing". I joined the group and started reading.

Someone had made the general rule "10 hours of standing will give results, 100 will give good results, 1000 will give best results". However, I would say I found the majority in that group saying that long standing is meaningless and just creates more tension in the body, or even worse, injuries.

At that point I had accumulated almost 9 hours of total standing time, and I wanted to quit.

That 10 hour rule motivated me to try a bit more.

Lo and behold, a day or two after reading that post, something happened during my standing.

Suddenly I felt my left hip "pop open" is the best way to describe it. It was as if there had been some kind of tension in there, preventing my hips from "hanging", and thereby preventing my lower and upper body from being connected and aligned.

That same day, just towards the end of my standing (about 40 minutes), my right hip popped open.

I was shocked! It was as if my body had been multiple different compartments of tensions, and with this hip opening (thanks only to time and gravity, it was completely outside of my own volition to do), it felt like my entire body became one, connected, physical whole.

The last 4-5 days or so have been shocking to say the least. The hips both now "fall" open by themselves after about 5-10 minutes of standing, my whole body falls into alignment, and I can just stand and stand completely effortlessly. Everything has fallen into place.

I stood 60 minutes yesterday, completely effortlessly!

I am shocked.

So I have something physical to show for it, at least for my self. Before I started, I just couldn't stand no matter what I did, it was literal self-torture. However, now my physical body feels more and more like one integrated and well-aligned unit, making it possible for me to effortlessly stand.

I am yet to see what will happen from here energetically and spiritually, but I can see now how standing lends itself to meditation. The body clicks into position, and I can completely focus on simply meditating.

I also feel very grounded after standing.

But there are still about 70 days to go, so I will just have to wait and see what will happen (if anything). However, I would love to hear your experiences from long term, daily standing  

The good, the bad, the ugly, everything, just your personal lived experience.

If standing cured your cancer, I want to know about it.

If standing killed your grandma, I want to know about it.

Look forward to hear from you!

All the best

Edited December 7, 2023 by Nuralshamal

[Kojiro]

Years ago I practiced zhang zhuang quite a lot. My first qi gong master was very very good at it, he loved the practice and always made us do it.  It was funny, because I remember some students, specially the newcomers, suffered a lot. A LOT. Me too at first. 

 

I happened to train quite a lot the standing meditation, it was a challenge for me to endure for a long time in the position. I wanted to be as good as my teacher,. I trained it every single day for some time, until everything broke down. It was like my body didn't want to do the practice anymore, because every time I tried to do it all my body shook, from head to toes. My neck and head moved and shook a lot. I didn't know how to interpret these erratic movements, my teacher said it was good because it meant I was unlocking deep blockages. But I arrived at the conclusion that it was just my mind that didn't want to play that game again, like it was senseless to continue. 

 

I would have liked somehow, some part of me, to be able to stand for an hour effortlessly, like my teacher used to do, but I never could, and I decided it wasn't worth anymore to try. I chose to focus on other things.

[Nuralshamal]

Hej @Kojiro,

Thanks for sharing!

I agree with you about standing! I too suffered endlessly until very recently.

When I read online (I researched and read several hours a day for several days), it seemed about 70-80% of what I found was people getting nothing from it or actively hurting themselves.

The people who reported benefits were very, very few, and mostly it was anecdotes about other people, and not their own personal experience (which makes it even less credible).

Many of the people personally reporting positive benefits, mostly just said they did it because they were forced by their sifus, who also dogmatically claimed it was the end all and be all of everything.

There were many I saw who had been standing daily for 6 months, some for several years, and many of them simply said it helps them feel more grounded or relaxed, but it's not that great, and 15 minutes of correct standing gives the same benefits as several hours.

That's why I am so happy you shared your experience, I really feel like it would help "the world" to get a place with only personal, credible experiences, and get the complete, unfiltered truth.

So thanks again

[Maddie]

I tried this for a little while several years ago and I hated it. I'm not saying it isn't good, I'm just saying I hated it. I noticed especially when I got to the part when you are supposed to hold your hands in a ball position in front of your chest all sorts of anxiety came up. It's been a long time though. 

[Nuralshamal]

Hey @Maddie,

Thanks for sharing!

Every personal, lived experience is valuable

 

[ChiDragon]

4 hours ago, Nuralshamal said:

However, please refrain from sharing theories, opinions, views of different schools, your viewpoints, these are all interesting of course, but I would like to keep this thread completely clean of that, and instead solely focus on lived, personal experiences.

 

How can anyone without knowing the theories and blindly jumped into the practice. Apparently, that is what I see is happening here. Three people went into the practice not knowing the proper instruction and sharing the bad experience. One learned the hard way and the other was force to do so against his own free will. In addition, the problem with the terminology of zhang zhuang (站桩) should not be called standing meditation.

I had done some ZZ after many years of practice of Taiji. However, practicing Taiji has the same result as ZZ. It is because ZZ is mainly working on the legs with breathing. To refrain from theory as suggested by the OP. I just go over my experience with Taiji that is also applies to ZZ. At the beginning of both exercises, for most people, their legs are sore after few minutes of standing. In Taiji, the legs are standing on one at a time. After the first three months of practice, the sore will be gone. The legs become stronger after years of practice. When go into ZZ, there shouldn't be any difficulty.

To do ZZ, the angle of the upper and the lower legs should be at a small angle, like 10 to 15 degrees to begin with to avoid over stressing the leg muscles. As the legs muscle progressively become stronger, the bending angle at the knees can be increased to 20 to 25 degrees and so far. The maximum angle is 90 degrees in the ZZ position. That is very hard to achieve. Unless you are a Shaolin monk or a true Taoist.
 
To avoid shoulder pains, the elbows of the arms should be bent rather than holding straight in the air. Hence, it will reduce the supporting weight on the shoulder. As result, it reduces the amount of stress for the shoulders.

 

[Chang dao ling]

I tried it but my shoulders becomes very painfull. I quit it. It is from Zhong Yuan Qigong. In Zhong Yuan Qigong Zhang zuang called" Big tree exercise " we hold our arms at navel level 

 

 

Edited December 8, 2023 by Chang dao ling

[ChiDragon]

1 hour ago, Chang dao ling said:

we hold our arms at navel level 

 

How about hold your arms at chest level and loosen up the arm muscles. Do that for a few minutes at a time as a beginner. Let your shoulder muscles get use to the new stress that was never applied to them before.

Edited December 8, 2023 by ChiDragon

[Nuralshamal]

Hey @ChiDragon,

I appreciate you sharing your thoughts!

However, I would also note that even though you did your best to share your experience in your post, I still feel like you came off as judgemental, belittling others, and then having a little "teaching moment" telling everyone how it's done, even including specific angles.

I of course see and appreciate your intention of helping others out with your tips and tricks! I know you're simply trying to help.

I also appreciate your effort in following my intention set out for this thread.

I want to avoid that people simply say ZZ is the bomb, and if someone didn't become a God by doing it, they're doing it wrong. This approach is what I generally found while scouring the internet, and I find it religious and dogmatic in nature, which I feel is in complete contrast to what Daoism is.

From my perspective Daoism is much more scientific, meaning it's based on observation, always observing, and yes, drawing conclusions, but always being open to change them if new observations come along.

The whole point of this thread is to gather observations. It's not to either "defend" ZZ as great, or "attack" ZZ as bad. It's neutral in its intention, it's simply to gather knowledge, experiences and observations.

And facts are, nothing in this world is 100% good, 100% of the time, for 100% of the people trying it. No matter how good qigong, yoga, meditation, herbs or ZZ can be, it's not going to be that for everyone all the time. Some people are going to get hurt, get a bad result, it's normal, it's natural. Similarly, some are going to get no results. Some are going to get good results, some even great. The whole spectrum is there.

The idea that the world is black and white, some things are pure evil, some are purely good, e.g. ZZ is either God, or ZZ is the devil, that is simply not true. 

I welcome your own personal experiences, and I welcome you on this thread, but please stick to the format; leave people alone, and focus on yourself instead: what is your own personal experience?

That is actually what is always advocated in Daoism: always come back to yourself, focus on yourself and your own cultivation, don't drain your energy by focusing so much on what other people are doing.

Edited December 8, 2023 by Nuralshamal

[ChiDragon]

Thank you! I will stay out of your thread. Peace!

[Sahaja]

It is interesting to read others experiences with standing practice. Thank you for sharing. Some of these experiences I’ve had, like the shaking or difficulty staying for long periods, others I have not so much - emotional response. Though sometimes I do get cranky afterward which is a sign I over did it.  My definition of standing practice may be broader than some as to me classic ZZ holding the tree is only one of many, many positions where the main principle of standing, hanging the flesh off the bones and turning off muscle contraction and listening to the body, can be practiced. Qigong/neigong, bagua, tai chi and Xing yi all have static standing positions as part of their traditions. I think that shows how important they are.
 

 The benefits are quite wide ranging from physical strengthening and building energetic  lines in the body to support energy flow in movement to developing yin fields in the abdomen and elsewhere to mental absorption in the body that can take one quite deep. Personally I find that they generate a lot of endorphins (much more than other physical exercises for me) - kind of superficial I know - but still it’s a nice feeling implying both a physical health benefit and mental benefit (much more smiling afterward!) I image some people might get annoyed by my silly smile afterward, my apologies!
 

Now when I stand and allow the flesh to hang I immediately experience both yang chi movement  and yin chi contraction of body tissue. There is also much more internal connection than there used to be with individual finger, hand, shoulder, wrist and foot placement/adjustment creating energetic responses in the tissue in different parts of the torso. While they are systematic and repeatable, their complexity makes  mapping their specific patterns difficult.  I  surmise there is a correlation between this chi mobilization and the  endorphins though I have not ever been told this by any of my teachers. Even when my awareness touches certain points chi gets mobilized. It’s pretty cool when you have strong somatic responses where the points are on the acupuncture chart. Actually where your awareness and how stable it is really an important key to the practice. If your mind is somewhere outside the body during the practice the benefits are limited, sort of the same as in yoga. 

 

I am now at a stage where the Jin is moving up , down and out in the body in standing practice which does feel like it widens the body and further stretches the tissue. Back and arms spreading from the Jin movement start to feel like I look like a gorilla - lol. . I still struggle staying a long time but the struggle is more a weariness of mind or body than specific body pain. Though my arthritic knee and shoulder provide some fireworks from time to time.  I have to observe my own personal cues to work around these health challenges (my karma talking to me!) . . Shakiness still arises but is shorter and more of a bouncy energetic response to a cue  (which there are so many of like in Santishi which must have 20 plus cues to consider when practicing). I think the cues are really important to keep you on task with your awareness continuously monitoring the body.  This mental monitoring can also take one quite deep into absorption in the body. I find that this absorption is transferable to my sitting practice.

I do these practices daily and highly recommend them. While it may be helpful at different points to have a goal of how long to build endurance, I think it’s more important in the long run how you do it. A few minutes where you’ve really released the tissue and turned off muscle contraction to the point you almost fall down and are really absorbed in observing and practicing the cues to the point you forget about everything else can have a lot of benefits for your life. I have been told that some of the standing practices can take you as far as the sitting practices can in your sadhana. . 

 
best wishes with your practice.
 

 

[Nuralshamal]

Hey @Sahaja,

Thanks for sharing

Very interesting insights about the joints, tissues, muscles as well as acupoints!

Also very interesting point about the mind/awareness being inside the body, and the connection with karma

All the best!

[Bai Xi]

Standing Meditation is Useless unless you've lost a severe amount of Jing! I've tried but I can't get other people to stop using my Jing...
 

Cough, there is some sincerity in your practice but Yin Plucking Technique, my cultivation method, makes it even impossible for me to get enlightened there is no way loss of Jing is even possible. I've heard of Yogis who using Standing Pose to breathe more and more air till they can learn to walk again... This is perhaps the most interesting thing I've thought about

[Maddie]

14 hours ago, Bai Xi said:

Standing Meditation is Useless unless you've lost a severe amount of Jing! I've tried but I can't get other people to stop using my Jing...
 

Cough, there is some sincerity in your practice but Yin Plucking Technique, my cultivation method, makes it even impossible for me to get enlightened there is no way loss of Jing is even possible. I've heard of Yogis who using Standing Pose to breathe more and more air till they can learn to walk again... This is perhaps the most interesting thing I've thought about

 

You're saying your practice causes you to lose Jing?

[Bai Xi]

Any practice causes the loss of Jing, there is no comfort greater than being the Human Emperor

[Maddie]

25 minutes ago, Bai Xi said:

Any practice causes the loss of Jing, there is no comfort greater than being the Human Emperor

 

What do you base this claim on?

[dwai]

I've been practicing standing as part of my Tai chi practice for a good part for about 23 years now. Standing has many benefits - it helps us learn how to sink the qi down to the dantien, it helps us release physical tensions and grounds the nervous system. 

One should build up standing over a period of time - little by little, 5-10 min increments until you can stand for extended periods of time. When I visit my master, we do daoist circle meditation where several of us stand in a circle and meditate, with sifu pumping energy into the circle. After a while, my feet feel like they've been water - the yin qi rises up and the yang qi sinks down - merges in the lower dantien.

 

One more thing to beware of is, after standing, always do some moving meditation to recirculate the energy that is built up, otherwise the kidneys can get damaged. 

[Bai Xi]

On 12/9/2023 at 12:02 PM, Maddie said:

 

What do you base this claim on?

Aren't you just being a Human Emperor to refute me?

[EFreethought]

Does anyone do meditation in horse stance?

 

[Eduardo]

9 minutes ago, Bai Xi said:

Sadly I am still trying to become a General... Find a clean pond to bathe by preferably Psychic and worship the way your feet work

I've refined a Gu called Clear Springs for you, if you don't speak you will use it without my permission

 

Five minutes away from talking about hoplites...

[dwai]

56 minutes ago, Bai Xi said:

What a vile wretch, what are you trying to say that you like breaking into houses? 

has never accurately recieved Jing, has been cruel to their Meridians, Unable to become a Psyker

Some people are just cruel, all you dogs can laugh at is my Ego.

Bye bye. 

[Maddie]

 

What the actual F_ck

 

*this has got to be a troll

 

1 hour ago, Bai Xi said:

It is a good thing to lose Jing, any accumulation of Shen will be cruel to your body. Are you trying to sell a woman to me across the internet with that picture? I Dong Li, will show you the price of berating me!

 

Edited December 10, 2023 by Maddie

[Sanity Check]

19 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

What the actual F_ck

 

*this has got to be a troll

 

 

 

 

I don't know that person.

 

But I know of them.

 

They are very very skilled at inner alchemy & sorcery.

 

They could come on here and talk down to everyone.

 

Because they are that good.

 

But hopefully they will find something more constructive to do with their time.

 

[MBZ]

22 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

 

 

I don't know that person.

 

But I know of them.

 

They are very very skilled at inner alchemy & sorcery.

 

They could come on here and talk down to everyone.

 

Because they are that good.

 

But hopefully they will find something more constructive to do with their time.

 

Really? Do tell! 

[Sanity Check]

41 minutes ago, MBZ said:

Really? Do tell! 

 

Warhammer 40k references.

 

The Emperor he speaks of:  https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Emperor_of_Mankind

Psyker:  https://warhammer40k.fandom.com/wiki/Psyker

 

That's all there is to say.