Ask an acupuncturist

[ChiDragon]

1 minute ago, Maddie said:

 

Difficult to say for sure without having seen you in person and evaluated you, but I do see this sort of thing all day everyday. 

Okay! Let me ask you this. Do you normally stick a needle in the area where the pain is or put a needle somewhere else?

[Maddie]

16 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

 

 

Natural is a great answer. 

 

But, if you had to define what qi and meridians are in scientific materialist terms.

 

What are they?

 

 

There has been research done in the last few years that have found that the meridians are pathways of higher natural conductivity within the fascia and other connective tissue of the body that has an affect upon the nervous system. 

 

Qi just means energy in Chinese. The definition of energy is the ability to do work. Qi is a way of describing the functions of various parts of the body when used in a medical context. For example I recently used in another post Spleen qi as a descriptive term to describe the digestive system as a whole. 

[Maddie]

20 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

Okay! Let me ask you this. Do you normally stick a needle in the area where the pain is or put a needle somewhere else?

 

I use a technique call distal needling channel theory. So usually when I treat neck pain for example I most often put the needles in the lower leg. 

[Sanity Check]

2 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

There has been research done in the last few years that have found that the meridians are pathways of higher natural conductivity within the fascia and other connective tissue of the body that has an affect upon the nervous system. 

 

Qi just means energy in Chinese. The definition of energy is the ability to do work. Qi is a way of describing the functions of various parts of the body when used in a medical context. For example I recently used in another post Spleen qi as a descriptive term to describe the digestive system as a whole. 

 

 

If there were a pathway of higher natural conductivity within the fascia.

 

Science would devise a medical instrument to detect and map this network in the human body.

 

It would be detectable via ultrasound or another method.

 

Then silicon valley startups would manufacture artificial intelligence bots that detect blockage or imbalance in meridians and stick needles in them.

 

For some strange reason, I don't envision any of this happening anytime soon.

 

Just a thought.  

[Maddie]

3 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

 

 

If there were a pathway of higher natural conductivity within the fascia.

 

Science would devise a medical instrument to detect and map this network in the human body.

 

It would be detectable via ultrasound or another method.

 

Then silicon valley startups would manufacture artificial intelligence bots that detect blockage or imbalance in meridians and stick needles in them.

 

For some strange reason, I don't envision any of this happening anytime soon.

 

Just a thought.  

 

It was through scientific instruments and observations that they were detected. 

 

There are machines that can supposedly detect blockages in meridians and some acupuncturists use them profusely.

 

 

[Sanity Check]

19 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

It was through scientific instruments and observations that they were detected. 

 

There are machines that can supposedly detect blockages in meridians and some acupuncturists use them profusely.

 

 

 

 

Interesting, what are these machines called?

 

Who uses them?

[Maddie]

51 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

 

 

Interesting, what are these machines called?

 

Who uses them?

 

https://newvita.com/products/meridian-energy-analysis-system-easy?variant=7152236265524¤cy=USD&utm_medium=product_sync&utm_source=google&utm_content=sag_organic&utm_campaign=sag_organic&utm_campaign=gs-2020-12-22&utm_source=google&utm_medium=smart_campaign&gclid=Cj0KCQiA7OqrBhD9ARIsAK3UXh23Kqg1lcmhobrsfmyB4G9klPLq8luf-O40sSa16BNaAKo8Xe7n1tcaAvI_EALw_wcB

 

[RobB]

Hi Maddie,

 

I've just started learning some acupuncture. As well as the 12 primary channels, my teacher has also spoken a bit about using the Luo channels, Divergents and the 8 extraordinary vessels. He's made it clear that we won't study them in depth in this foundation course but I wondered whether these were part of your practice?

[Maddie]

32 minutes ago, RobB said:

Hi Maddie,

 

I've just started learning some acupuncture. As well as the 12 primary channels, my teacher has also spoken a bit about using the Luo channels, Divergents and the 8 extraordinary vessels. He's made it clear that we won't study them in depth in this foundation course but I wondered whether these were part of your practice?

 

Absolutely, especially the eight extraordinary vessels. These were the first channels to develop as an embryo and therefore have a very deep effect. I use them in almost every treatment in some way. 

[RobB]

On 15/12/2023 at 5:38 PM, Maddie said:

 

Absolutely, especially the eight extraordinary vessels. These were the first channels to develop as an embryo and therefore have a very deep effect. I use them in almost every treatment in some way. 

 

Would that typically be the Ren Mai and Du Mai in regular use or do you find yourself often using the others?  My impression is that, since your working at the Jing level (if I understand correctly), you can be dealing with some pretty heavy-duty stuff.

[Maddie]

52 minutes ago, RobB said:

 

Would that typically be the Ren Mai and Du Mai in regular use or do you find yourself often using the others?  My impression is that, since your working at the Jing level (if I understand correctly), you can be dealing with some pretty heavy-duty stuff.

 

I use all eight.

[ChiDragon]

On 12/14/2023 at 12:31 PM, ChiDragon said:

Do you think that all of the acupoints is riding on all the nerves throughout the human body?

I think the answer is yes. Even though, the acupuncturists said no, I will justify it later.

Edited December 23, 2023 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

@Maddie
In the English version of the book: Chinese Acupuncture and Moxibustion.
For example: The Yuji, 魚際 (Ying-Spring Point, LU10)
Location: The junction of the dorsum and palm of the hand
Method: Puncture perpendicularly 0.5 - 0.8 inch.
Innervation: The superficial ramus of the radial nerve.

If we look at:
The description of the depth(0.5 to 0.8 inch), and check the anatomy diagram. It leads me to think it is deep down into the radial nerve.

What do you about this?

Edited December 23, 2023 by ChiDragon

[Maddie]

21 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

@Maddie
In the English version of the book: Chinese Acupuncture and Moxibustion.
For example: The Yuji, 魚際 (Ying-Spring Point, LU10)
Location: The junction of the dorsum and palm of the hand
Method: Puncture perpendicularly 0.5 - 0.8 inch.
Innervation: The superficial ramus of the radial nerve.

If we look at:
The description of the depth(0.5 to 0.8 inch), and check the anatomy diagram. It leads me to think it is deep down into the radial nerve.

What do you about this?

 

The reason it cautions about the radial nerve is because we're specifically not supposed to hit it otherwise it would be very painful and could do nerve damage. 

[ChiDragon]

17 minutes ago, Maddie said:

Method: Puncture perpendicularly 0.5 - 0.8 inch.
Innervation: The superficial ramus of the radial nerve.
 

 This is definitely will hit the radial nerve. You have no consideration of the this condition?

 

19 minutes ago, Maddie said:

The reason it cautions about the radial nerve is because we're specifically not supposed to hit it otherwise it would be very painful and could do nerve damage. 

Is this what you were told in TCM School or you just believe it just like that?

 

[Maddie]

50 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

Is this what you were told in TCM School?

 

Yes.

[Mark Foote]

On 12/14/2023 at 8:39 AM, Maddie said:

I thought I would make a thread where if anyone has questions about TCM or acupuncture they can feel free to ask. I am a licensed acupuncturist. 

 

*nothing I say constitutes a doctor patient relationship. 
 

 

 

That was interesting, about a relationship between needles at particular points in the fascia and proximal nerves.

I wonder if there could be a relationship between dermatomes and acupuncture points.


 

[Cobie]

On 24/12/2023 at 12:47 AM, ChiDragon said:

 This is definitely will hit the radial nerve …

That’s extremely alarming. 

[Maddie]

3 minutes ago, Cobie said:

That’s extremely alarming. 

 

No its not, because that's not what it is.

[Maddie]

39 minutes ago, Mark Foote said:

 

 

That was interesting, about a relationship between needles at particular points in the fascia and proximal nerves.

I wonder if there could be a relationship between dermatomes and acupuncture points.


 

 

I think there is a loose relationship. 

 

[ChiDragon]

1 hour ago, Cobie said:

That’s extremely alarming. 

Why should one be alarmed. If one look at the diagram of human body meridians. One will see that all the acu-points are aligned with the nerves. Modern science speaks the truth. The book says where the point is and how fall down in the muscles. To me that says all. However, please don't argue this with acupuncturists. Sorry Maddie!
There is one thing for sure. I couldn't believe that the human body has two systems. One denies the other. It just doesn't make any sense to me at all. By saying no, and it has noting to do with each other, I just can't buy it. With the scientific method, I am definitely can relate the two systems are the same.

Remember the old saying: "These two come from one origin but differ in name."

Edited December 28, 2023 by ChiDragon

[Nungali]

I have always wondered about this , so I am wondering what Dr Maddie thinks    

 

years back I had a doc who was western AND TCM .  I used to get badly irritated, red, itchy eyes after smoking marijuana so I asked him about it .  he did an examination , got me to smoke some then did another examination .  He proceeded to put in some needles , I have had them before along and near the eyebrows , which is what I thought he was going to do as he was 'fiddling' around in that area . I did notice the needles seemed rather long .  he put the first needle in below the eyebrow , but lower than I expected and pushed it into my eye socket   below the bone and above the eyeball and all the way into the back of my eye socket .  I would probably never have agree if he told me that was what he was going to do !   I froze .  Two more there and three in the other side . I lay there VERY still . I could feel the shafts of the needles on my eye balls if I moved them a little .

 

Boy was I glad to get them out ! When I left , walking down the street  after only about 150 meters I ran into people 3 times that knew me and they all commented on my eyes .  WTF . So I went into the pub, into the toilets and looked in the mirror . My eyes looked  clean, new, sparkly, beaming . All the white parts where pure shiny white , like a babies .  The problem went away for a long time .

 

have you ever heard of that before ?  It was extremely freaky .

 

[  Another time he said he wanted to do a point either side below  my knee , at the back so he stuck a long in one side all the way through and out the other side .  I asked him about that and he said 'I thought since I was going to do both points to use the one needle instead of two separate ones .

 

This was years back, I have not had treatment from in in many years as he moved .    He did treat me for a few years for Hep C as well  which seemed (according to docs)  to have kept me in a good condition until the cure was developed . The doctors where surprised that I had had it for so long ,  with little effects and damage . ]

[Maddie]

32 minutes ago, Nungali said:

I have always wondered about this , so I am wondering what Dr Maddie thinks    

 

years back I had a doc who was western AND TCM .  I used to get badly irritated, red, itchy eyes after smoking marijuana so I asked him about it .  he did an examination , got me to smoke some then did another examination .  He proceeded to put in some needles , I have had them before along and near the eyebrows , which is what I thought he was going to do as he was 'fiddling' around in that area . I did notice the needles seemed rather long .  he put the first needle in below the eyebrow , but lower than I expected and pushed it into my eye socket   below the bone and above the eyeball and all the way into the back of my eye socket .  I would probably never have agree if he told me that was what he was going to do !   I froze .  Two more there and three in the other side . I lay there VERY still . I could feel the shafts of the needles on my eye balls if I moved them a little .

 

Boy was I glad to get them out ! When I left , walking down the street  after only about 150 meters I ran into people 3 times that knew me and they all commented on my eyes .  WTF . So I went into the pub, into the toilets and looked in the mirror . My eyes looked  clean, new, sparkly, beaming . All the white parts where pure shiny white , like a babies .  The problem went away for a long time .

 

have you ever heard of that before ?  It was extremely freaky .

 

[  Another time he said he wanted to do a point either side below  my knee , at the back so he stuck a long in one side all the way through and out the other side .  I asked him about that and he said 'I thought since I was going to do both points to use the one needle instead of two separate ones .

 

This was years back, I have not had treatment from in in many years as he moved .    He did treat me for a few years for Hep C as well  which seemed (according to docs)  to have kept me in a good condition until the cure was developed . The doctors where surprised that I had had it for so long ,  with little effects and damage . ]

 

No I have never heard of that. Though there is a method to needle Bladder 1 which is in the inner canthus of the eye socket which our professor demonstrated once on a student with back pain. Before she could not even bend over half way and then he needled the point in a manner like you describe and then she was able to touch her toes. But for what you are talking about, no I have never heard of that. 

[Nungali]

I want my baby eyes back !    

 

- but I dont think I would let anyone do that to me ever again ! 

[Maddie]

Just now, Nungali said:

I want my baby eyes back !    

 

- but I dont think I would let anyone do that to me ever again ! 

 

You can do that with Gallbladder 37. It's on your leg.