Actual purpose of the dantian?

[ChiDragon]

3 minutes ago, Cobie said:

 

Indeed! One of those things that native scholars like to ignore when interpreting characters!

 

 

The native scholars do not ignore the compound characters like the non-natives do.

[Cobie]

20 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

The native scholars do not ignore the compound characters like the non-natives do.

 

It’s like Déjà vu.

 

No the “non-natives” do not ignore “compound characters” - well, the academics don’t.
As for all the amateurs dabbling, just let them have fun.  
 

 

Edited December 28, 2023 by Cobie

[ChimpSage]

2 hours ago, Trunk said:

 

I wasn't trying to give advice to others about how to talk,

just shouting out my own working-things-out into the digital universe.

If my viewpt is of use, well that's lucky.  Easily could be not.

 

fwiw, imo, you've made legit & discerning pts.

Good conversation.

I think your words were very useful. I love the way you speak  

 

I just wanted to give clear definitions. One could argue the lower field could be called sea of qi or other such terms as well.

 

In the end, they are just labels pointing to something that has a set purpose 

[ChiDragon]

2 minutes ago, Cobie said:

 It’s like Déjà vu.

 

No the “non-natives” do not ignore “compound characters”. Well, the academics don’t 

 

 

Déjà vu: 似曾相识

丹田 is compound character and is one term. We do not translate it separately. It is just a description for a place holder in the human body. If the interpretation was done separately, then, its original meaning will be lost. Peace to all!

[Nintendao]

I don't always ignore compound words, but i might try to pass myself off as an intelligent donkey, instead of just a smartass.

[ChiDragon]

17 minutes ago, ChimpSage said:

I just wanted to give clear definitions. One could argue the lower field could be called sea of qi or other such terms as well.

There is no argument that. 氣海(sea of qi) is just a name of an acupoint. It has happens to be located below the navel. I wouldn't translate the name to make something out of it. The nomenclature 氣海 is just pointing out where the location of the acupoint is. It really has no significant meaning.

PS That applies to all of the nomenclatures. They are just names of the acupoints.

Edited December 28, 2023 by ChiDragon

[ChiDragon]

11 minutes ago, Nintendao said:

I don't always ignore compound words, but i might try to pass myself off as an intelligent donkey, instead of just a

Don't always but sometimes?

[ChimpSage]

16 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

There is no argument that. 氣海(sea of qi) is just a name of an acupoint. It has happens to be located below the navel. I wouldn't translate the name to make something out of it. The nomenclature 氣海 is just pointing out where the location of the acupoint is. It really has no significant meaning.

PS That applies to all of the nomenclatures. They are just names of the acupoints.

Ah, but in qigong, the lower field is quite frankly a sea of qi. You must build the reservoir and fill it.

 

I wouldn’t say they are just names of acu points. 
 

I would say the nomenclature points to the purpose of the thing in question. So, each acupoint has a certain label attached to it to give a name to its purpose.

 

This is the same for all things in the material realm. The label points to the purpose. In other words, the truest name is the truest purpose.

 

For the Dantian, the true name is elixir field because that points to its purpose.

 

In qigong or Taichi, the lower field is not used for the Dan, so then we could call it something else.

 

Sea of Qi/Lower Field/ect depending on its purpose

Edited December 28, 2023 by ChimpSage

[ChiDragon]

4 minutes ago, ChimpSage said:

Ah, but in qigong, the lower field is quite frankly a sea of qi. You must build the reservoir and fill it.

 

I wouldn’t say they are just names of acu points. 

I believe that is your understanding and opinion. I will not argue about that. I can only tell what it is, other than what it is not. Peace!

Edited December 28, 2023 by ChiDragon

[ChimpSage]

1 minute ago, ChiDragon said:

I believe that is your understanding and opinion. I will not argue about that. I can only tell what it is, other than what it is not. Peace!

Fair enough! Good talk  

[Nintendao]

4 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

Don't always but sometimes?

 

It's just the way my mind works, looking for lots of different angles. I do it with English, too. Always want to see the Latin or Greek parts that went into something. As a calligrapher i even look up the radical and phonetic components separately. Holding in mind the pictographic representation of every stroke facilitates a more expressive style 

[ChiDragon]

FYI
The radicals make up the characters. Each character has its meanings depends on context. The compound character has different meanings completely as oppose to the individual character. Many non-natives do make this kind of mistakes by interpreting them separately.

[Trunk]

(could be that I'm somewhat off-topic from the actual pt of this thread, just ignore if so, but - what's percolating ...)

 

on a fairly physical angle related to the LDT ...

*If* there are tangles in the nerve plexuses, torques n' adhesions in the fascia of the abdominal area, it can be a layered very long term project to work through.  And the abdominal layers cover the LDT and up further the torso so - if open and functioning well, allows various ventilation, harmonization among.  If not, then puts a partial lid on the LDT, inhibits the integral function.

 

This sort of 'core' work is more common these days (pilates, etc), but my observation is that aspirants often get to that layered excavation late (because so many other things are easier, because the strength of youth masks lack of esoteric development, etc).  If you made it through puberty with that region in really good shape, and you haven't had any major car wrecks nor kitchen fires since, then lucky you: provides much more fluently integral vitality.  For those with issues, it's a notoriously stubborn region.

 

A lot of the traditional internal arts (belly dancing, bagua, xing yi, yoga) have various exercises that separate and articulate the layers of abdominal tissue.  That prepares a space, so that a LDT could occur (at all .. or more frequently, deeper, more integral).

 

Fact is, the LDT includes our densest physiology, energies and psyche and, also (of course, 'cause She's all over) a connection to God.  That's quite a spread.  And, everything runs through there (we've an integral body).  It just seems like a fluent and thorough integration, *especially* of the LDT, includes many layers and is long term cultivation.

 

Seems to me that the broad areas to look at are:

- health

- behavior

- transpersonal integration

 

And as far as potential depth, how far does it go?

Ask Padmasambhava.

 

There are levels.

... but, hey, for some people they just feel basically well put together, basic healthy.  Good on 'm.

and perhaps no sense of 'pregnancy', of latent pressure ... of that incessant silent drive for divine integration that inspires, frustrates n' propels some of us ol' nuts over our whole lives.

 

- Keith

[JKJB]

15 hours ago, Cobie said:

@steve JKJB might be a sockpuppet.

 

 

JKJB might be Shadow_self. See https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/54064-nathan-brine-revised-material/?do=findComment&comment=992408  

 

 

 

Take a break from the paranoia weeds there my man. I am not at all. I'm just someone who from a lot of experience with negtive entities and old texts would like to defend the sanity of the people using these remedies back then as they do seem to work especially on astral parasites. Just because the West back then couldn't seem to integrate this knowledge and wen't all overboard in mercury poisonings and blood-letting doesn't mean that the original science behind these techniques were also ill-adviced. Also lazy noble-men have had a tendency to go overboard in the mercury which lead to poisonings and a reputation for not working even though countless seekers have used this throughout the ages to get rid of the most stubborn astral parasites or corpse-demons/worms what have you. 

 

Some other remedies now we're at it are. Asafoetida, mugwort ofc, ammonia strangly enough but dark entities and demons can't stand this stuff, epsomsalt and regular salt, great for cleansing baths after a Day out there in these modern dark ages, incenses like white sage, white pine, francincense, sandalwood etc. also burning bayleaves and cloves may also repell certain entities too. 

 

In general most people carry buttloads of entities, and trauma leads to energetic bleeding which too attracks this kind of nasty critters which will do everything they can to avoid you healing these core traumas that acts as anticoagulants for the wounds of energy of which they feed within your weiqi fields. 

 

Certain lifestyles keeps people in the unknown about this stuff and they will act as if you are offending them for trying to help them get rid of these little devils, that tend to form symbiotic relationships feeding them emotions, insights, or trying to control them with negative imputs etc. Thus disconnecting them from their yuan shen and original self, that often is way more beautiful, powerful and able to cope with the actual reality than these bloodsuckers which if they can will try to distort ones whole reality to keep feeding them these emotional discharges, thus many people have very restricting World-views often due to this. 

[Neirong]

23 minutes ago, JKJB said:

old texts would like to defend the sanity of the people using these remedies back then as they do seem to work especially on astral parasites.

 

It is fairly easy to deal with all the larvaes, entities and astral parasites, if you study magic and develop third eye (ability to sense and see them).

I think people promoting mercury ingestion should be taken off from the internet, it is not far from promoting suicide or violence.
There are a lot of young people, easily impressible people and fools on the internet that can take this very seriously, and jump on the "Immortal pill" train ingesting mercury.

[Cobie]

11 hours ago, JKJB said:

… I … would like to defend the sanity of the people using  … mercury …

Well you sound just like  @Shadow_self , the same writing style too.  
 

 

Edited December 29, 2023 by Cobie

[Cobie]

 

10 hours ago, Neirong said:

… I think people promoting mercury ingestion should be taken off from the internet, it is not far from promoting suicide or violence.
There are a lot of young people, easily impressible people and fools on the internet that can take this very seriously, and jump on the "Immortal pill" train ingesting mercury.

 

I agree, all people promoting mercury ingestion should be permanently banned.

 

 

Edited December 29, 2023 by Cobie

[Trunk]

Ok, I'm kinda honing in on a more focused answer to the subject line of this thread ...

- much in agreement with what some others have already said, just getting there through my own messy thoughts -

 

The book Tsongkhapa's Six Yogas of Naropa tr.by Glenn Mullin talked about (what I call) the deep-center - where the major chakras intersect the central channel.  A still quiet space where the deep alchemy between personal and transpersonal.  The Tibetans talk about it in that book something like this:

"the wisdom of conjoining bliss and emptiness"

and their basic instruction for what to do in that space,

"enter, abide and dissolve".

 

 

Typical of the Tibetan system, there's tremendous surrounding complexity in that book, and it's part of a head-spinningly extensive training system... but that one simple part of it is key and clarified a *lot* for me, in a lot of directions, re: a lot of practices.

 

The territory that I kinda think a dantian is?

it has that (above) at it's core.

+

... and all of the layers of being and physicality fluently integrated.

 

That's the short of it, for me.

and points to an endless process.

 

p.s.

And one of the best tips I've heard re: quality to aspire towards is "silk breathing", your LDT breathing like silk for entire cycle of the breath.  From Master Kim of Sundo.org.

[liminal_luke]

On 12/28/2023 at 5:52 PM, Trunk said:

 

 

on a fairly physical angle related to the LDT ...

*If* there are tangles in the nerve plexuses, torques n' adhesions in the fascia of the abdominal area, it can be a layered very long term project to work through.  And the abdominal layers cover the LDT and up further the torso so - if open and functioning well, allows various ventilation, harmonization among.  If not, then puts a partial lid on the LDT, inhibits the integral function.

 

 

 

One way a person might work with these physical LDT issues is to practice self- chi nei tsang.  Unwinding the Belly - Redwing Book Company (redwingbooks.com)

 

 

 

 

[Maddie]

I don't know if this happens to anyone else or not, but I don't do any specific Dan Tien practices or at least I have not for a long time, but sometimes I will notice my Dan Tien spontaneously "buzz" every now and then for no apparent reason. 

 

*I also think anyone promoting mercury ingestion should be banned as the results could lead to permanent neurological damage or even death. 

Edited December 30, 2023 by Maddie

[JKJB]

On 29.12.2023 at 2:24 PM, Neirong said:

 

It is fairly easy to deal with all the larvaes, entities and astral parasites, if you study magic and develop third eye (ability to sense and see them).

I think people promoting mercury ingestion should be taken off from the internet, it is not far from promoting suicide or violence.
There are a lot of young people, easily impressible people and fools on the internet that can take this very seriously, and jump on the "Immortal pill" train ingesting mercury.

People seem to mistake regular mecury from the form that is found in Red Cinnabar. Toxicity levels are very different as you can see here: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2755212/ 

And no indeed it is not very easy to disperse and expell these larvaes and astral leeches, if it was so easy why is there written countless manuals of people who struggled with this in severity not to mention the many who are either unaware or succumb to the illnesses and sickness they bring about. Some are blessed with protection, and for them sure it is much easier others on the other hand are not so lucky to have special protection. 

[JKJB]

1 hour ago, Maddie said:

I don't know if this happens to anyone else or not, but I don't do any specific Dan Tien practices or at least I have not for a long time, but sometimes I will notice my Dan Tien spontaneously "buzz" every now and then for no apparent reason. 

 

*I also think anyone promoting mercury ingestion should be banned as the results could lead to permanent neurological damage or even death. 

Do go ahead and read the studies please, before you circle-jerk yourself into a witch-hunt there. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2755212/

[Maddie]

1 minute ago, JKJB said:

Do go ahead and read the studies please, before you circle-jerk yourself into a witch-hunt there. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2755212/

 

Your study that you presented spoke about how deadly mercury was and how it killed an emperor! 

[JKJB]

18 hours ago, Cobie said:

 

 

I agree, all people promoting mercury ingestion should be permanently banned.

 

 

Nonsense and reverse gate-keeping. Read about it before you join the rage-train please:

 

Cinnabar-containing traditional medicines are generally relatively non-toxic at therapeutic doses. The correct preparation methods, appropriate doses, disease status, age and drug combinations are important factors impacting cinnabar toxicity (1, 8, 31). In general, the adverse effects at therapeutic doses of cinnabar-containing traditional medicines are rare and are largely tolerable and reversible. The cinnabar poisoning cases are associated with overdose, long-term uses, and improper processing such as heating, decocting, fumigating, or in combination with other drugs (31). For example, heating cinnabar resulted in mercury vapor release, and acute inhalation of mercury fumes can be fatal (32). Grinding cinnabar using aluminum utensils or in combination of iodide- and bromide-containing drugs could increase mercury toxicity (31), but the mechanisms of such interactions are not completely known. The long-term use of cinnabar-containing traditional medicines could result in renal dysfunction due to accumulation of mercury in the kidney. Blurred vision due to accumulation of mercury in brain is possible, gastrointestinal symptoms also often occur following long-term administration (9–11, 31). Skin allergic reaction may occur when cinnabar is used in tattoo dyes (33).

Oral administration of cinnabar at a high dose (1.0 g/kg/d for 7d) produced reversible hearing dysfunction, learning memory deficit, and other behavioral abnormalities in mice (24), rats (25, 28), and guinea pigs (29). In comparison, the ototoxicity produced by methyl mercury was so dramatic and irreversible, even at doses 1/1000 to 1/5000 of cinnabar (24–29). It should also be pointed out that the dose of cinnabar or mercury sulfide (1.0 g/kg) used in these studies is at least 100–500 times higher than human daily dose (i.e., 50 g/50 kg person, while allowable daily human oral dose is 0.1 – 0.5 g) 

[JKJB]

4 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

Your study that you presented spoke about how deadly mercury was and how it killed an emperor! 

You would make a great politician the way you pick this, from a study full of statements saying Cinnabar in medicinal use is safe and well-tolerated.

 

Cinnabar-containing traditional medicines are generally relatively non-toxic at therapeutic doses. The correct preparation methods, appropriate doses, disease status, age and drug combinations are important factors impacting cinnabar toxicity (1, 8, 31).It should also be pointed out that the dose of cinnabar or mercury sulfide (1.0 g/kg) used in these studies is at least 100–500 times higher than human daily dose (i.e., 50 g/50 kg person, while allowable daily human oral dose is 0.1 – 0.5 g) 

Edited December 30, 2023 by JKJB