Reflecting on TDB

[Daniel]

19 hours ago, Maddie said:

 

I would have not guessed in a million years this topic would get so many people so upset lol 

 

 

Speaking for myself, I'm not upset.  If you are commenting about me, that is a false perception.

[Sir Darius the Clairvoyent]

Daniel, my honest impression is that people here like you, but to be a little direct: you do have a tendecy to take thing personally and unwillingness to move on. Im sorry, but that is my impression.

 

Early on we had a good tone, and im honestly gratefull for the responses you gave me. I have nothing against you and i hope it is mutual.

[Daniel]

3 minutes ago, NaturaNaturans said:

Daniel, my honest impression is that people here like you, but to be a little direct: you do have a tendecy to take thing personally and unwillingness to move on. Im sorry, but that is my impression.

 

Early on we had a good tone, and im honestly gratefull for the responses you gave me. I have nothing against you and i hope it is mutual.

 

Your opinions about me are noted.  I do not deny the faults when they are occuring within myself.

[Nungali]

6 hours ago, Daniel said:

 

Speaking for myself, I'm not upset.  If you are commenting about me, that is a false perception.

 

Oh?  Are you saying someone is deluded ?

 

I hope they don't take that as a insult .

 

 

Edited December 27, 2023 by Nungali

[Mark Foote]

18 hours ago, Maddie said:

Delusion

 

 

 

I couldn't get past his opening statements.

"Ignorance is something that is overcome in school, studying books", he said, or something to that effect.  So he prefers delusion as the first element of the chain of causal conditions.

My view is that the ignorance at the head of the causal chain is the ignorance of "things as it is", as Shunryu Suzuki put it:

 

In a word, Zen is the teaching or practice to see “things as it is” or to accept “things as it is” and to raise things as it goes. This is the fundamental purpose of our practice and meaning of Zen. But it is, actually, rather difficult to see “things as it is.” 

... The point is to find our position moment after moment, and to live with people moment after moment according to the place is the purpose of our practice.

("Using Various Stones", Shunryu Suzuki; Friday, September 8, 1967; Tassajara)

 

When you find your place where you are, practice occurs, actualizing the fundamental point. When you find your way at this moment, practice occurs, actualizing the fundamental point…

("Genjo Koan", Dogen, tr. Tanahashi)

 

I didn't get past that opening set of statements, in the first video.  The second link in the causal chain as it is usually given is the activities, meaning the habitual or volitive activities, with consciousness as the third link--does he mention that?

 

Edited December 27, 2023 by Mark Foote

[doc benway]

I appreciate this thread being here, particularly as we enter the new Gregorian calendar year. 

Like everything else, there are things about it I really like and things that I find disappointing. 

What I really value the most here are the people and relationships.

It is fascinating to watch how people express their opinions and interact in all the myriad forms it takes.

It is instructive to see just how much they identify with those opinions and perspectives. 

Even more instructive to realize how I am one of them and to notice how much I can identify with and guard certain positions.

It is wonderful to be able to observe what things trigger me here as well as how I feel when people respond to my posts, be it positive, negative, or not at all. I find that these observations can inform how I interact with others in the meat world. 

Ultimately, what I seem to get out of my time here that is most valuable is the opportunity to see myself through the eyes of all of you, however that may play out. I never see myself as clearly as when I am able to integrate others' perspectives with my own.

What I have found disappointing here is the same thing I find disappointing about humanity in general, namely how elusive it is for people with differing opinions and perspectives to show each other respect and a little tolerance, if not genuine care. Similarly, how difficult it is to be open to opinions that differ from our own, being actively willing to embrace, or at least tolerate for a while, something that challenges our own closely held positions. 

So a big THANK YOU to everyone here for being a part of my own personal journey.

I wish you all a joyful and healthy 2024!

 

 

 

[dwai]

I appreciate all that contribute in the spirit of growing together, be it in collaboration or in opposition (of perspectives). 
 

I also echo Steve’s thoughts, and hope that we can become a truly multi-tradition, diverse group of seekers who want to keep growing, support each other, and be genuinely kind to each other.

[Maddie]

Ok this is more what I had in mind when I made this post! :-)

[Nungali]

3 hours ago, steve said:

.....   I find that these observations can inform how I interact with others in the meat world. ......

 

 

 

 

I always wondered what you did for a job in the real world .

 

 

 

 

 

[Cobie]

I dislike the term ‘meat world’. It is so disrespectful of our wonderful bodies, without whom we wouldn’t even be here!

 

On 30/12/2023 at 6:44 PM, steve said:

… the meat world …

 

And also it seems so dual in conception (the meat body/object versus the online mind/subject).  
 

 

 

Edited July 19 by Cobie

[Maddie]

9 minutes ago, Cobie said:

I severely dislike the term ‘meat world’. It is so disrespectful of our wonderful bodies, without whom we wouldn’t even be here! And also it seems so dual in conception (the meat body versus the online mind). 

 

 

It's why I'm a vegetarian  

[kakapo]

10 minutes ago, Cobie said:

I severely dislike the term ‘meat world’. It is so disrespectful of our wonderful bodies, without whom we wouldn’t even be here! And also it seems so dual in conception (the meat body versus the online mind).
 

 

 

 

[Nungali]

22 hours ago, Maddie said:

 

It's why I'm a vegetarian  

 

People like you are putting 'Steve the Butcher'   ( formerly 'Steve from the internet' ) outa business !

 

He has kids to feed ya know !  Cute little innocent pure kids .....

 

 

 

that need lots of  MEAT  to gnaw on

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[liminal_luke]

I don´t mind the meat world so much; it´s the virtual world that scares me.

[kakapo]

 

[CityHermit!]

Eh, it's been over 4 years since I last posted, I'm not sure what's changed.

[Sherman Krebbs]

On 12/27/2023 at 2:52 AM, Nungali said:

In a debate or discussion or even a fun talk      .... its not really valid to suppose what someone meant wrongly with an example and then attack your own example to show how 'they' where wrong .

 

Sorry for this.  Was not really meaning very much by those posts nor trying to attack a viewpoint, so apologies if they elicited controversy or feelings.  I think I was trying to say maybe I was wrong (which is usually 50% of the time)...

[old3bob]

 

sometimes this site is used by folks to grind their axes or bounce stuff off others to see what pops out...and sometimes good stuff happens, so goes our human nature.

[johndoe2012]

Something for me and most likely others here

 

https://www.shinzen.org/how-to-be-comfortable-with-everyone/

[Mark Foote]

8 hours ago, johndoe2012 said:

Something for me and most likely others here

 

https://www.shinzen.org/how-to-be-comfortable-with-everyone/
 

Not really looking to be comfortable with everyone, thanks anyway.

My mother's first husband was the author of "How to Lose Friends and Alienate People"--that's sort of a family perspective for me, I guess... from the Amazon review:

Originally published in 1937, "How to Lose Friends and Alienate People" is a tongue-in-cheek primer by Irving Tressler on how to achieve more free time and peace by having few, if any, friends and acquaintances. "Some of us are born with ability to make others peeved, but most of us aren't."...

 

I find it's only necessary to be straightforwardly honest to retain my reclusivity.

[Maddie]

1 hour ago, Mark Foote said:

Not really looking to be comfortable with everyone, thanks anyway.

My mother's first husband was the author of "How to Lose Friends and Alienate People"--that's sort of a family perspective for me, I guess... from the Amazon review:

Originally published in 1937, "How to Lose Friends and Alienate People" is a tongue-in-cheek primer by Irving Tressler on how to achieve more free time and peace by having few, if any, friends and acquaintances. "Some of us are born with ability to make others peeved, but most of us aren't."...

 

I find it's only necessary to be straightforwardly honest to retain my reclusivity.

 

I seem to be a natural then lol 

[idiot_stimpy]

I remember the Jeff controversy and used to hang out a bit in the daobums live chat. 

 

Come and go infrequently now compared to when I joined in 2011. It was like a treasure trove of information not seen before with people sharing all types of information and experiences.

[Apech]

14 hours ago, idiot_stimpy said:

I remember the Jeff controversy and used to hang out a bit in the daobums live chat. 

 

Come and go infrequently now compared to when I joined in 2011. It was like a treasure trove of information not seen before with people sharing all types of information and experiences.

 

I remember everything - unfortunately - 'sexcapades', genderwarz, Buddhawarz ... KAP/Kunlun ... it seems gentler now - maybe we're all just older and bit calmer.

 

 

[snowymountains]

On 1/25/2024 at 11:25 PM, Mark Foote said:

Not really looking to be comfortable with everyone, thanks anyway.

My mother's first husband was the author of "How to Lose Friends and Alienate People"--that's sort of a family perspective for me, I guess... from the Amazon review:

Originally published in 1937, "How to Lose Friends and Alienate People" is a tongue-in-cheek primer by Irving Tressler on how to achieve more free time and peace by having few, if any, friends and acquaintances. "Some of us are born with ability to make others peeved, but most of us aren't."...

 

I find it's only necessary to be straightforwardly honest to retain my reclusivity.

 

Comfort is an internal state and quite independent of others.

There's the famous Jung quote along the lines of what one finds irritating about others actually tells him about himself . So e.g. someone who isn't aware of their shadow, will be triggered by someone who has the same traits as their shadow. 

 

So the only way for someone to be comfortable with anyone is to have integrated all of their parts, not carry suppressed emotions, have their automatic reactions calibrated to their current environment, ways to express their creativity etc.

 

This is different though to not peeving others in hopes of them not creating a trigger, it's about not having triggers.

Others may have triggers though and working on them is their responsibility.

Edited February 11 by snowymountains

[Elysium]

On 20.12.2023 at 3:05 PM, wandelaar said:

The Dao Bums is a great place for learning to respectfully disagree.

I have noticed this too, in the short time I have been here. People show lots of restaint in general and are willing to listen what the other side says.