Esoteric Cosmology

[Vajra Mind]

Hi Everyone, 

 

Different esoteric systems have developed different cosmology of our universe/existence/being. There are some disagreements among practitioners and followers about the nature, relationship, number and structure of theses realms, but that is fine because theses differences reflects the depth of perception of the developers/followers and their mental constructs (affected by imputed beliefs and system of initiations). 

 

I honestly do not know how to make a good start or introduction but the only way that cross my mind is to give examples from Buddhist, Kabbalistic. Sufist and magical systems and I hope you can share what you know. 

 

Buddha describes Samsaric world having 31 planes of existence. They fall under 3 major categories based on their quality: Kamma Loka (sensual world), Rupa Loka (form realm) and at the peak is the Arupa Loka (formless realm). What is beyond those realms of Samsara is Nirvana. In my opinion the previously mentioned 3 categories can be reduced into 2 categories just Form realms vs Formless realms. Basically in the form realms entities have mind and a formed body while in formless realm there is no forms/bodies/material just minds. However, I have noticed that Buddhist system is the only system that gives life span to each entity within each sphere or realm before rebirth takes place into another realm. Are you aware of other systems that offers life span to each entity in those realms? 

 

Kabbalah and Greek magical systems in the West are heavily interwoven. I am baised towards practitioners who view the Kabbalistic tree of life as realms of existence where entities resides and take rebirth within (not the ones who see it as just mental states). I will give a simplified comparative analogies (with some conservatism) based on description of form and formless:

 

Magical Astral - Kabbalistic Assiah - Sufist lower Malakot - Buddhist Kamma Loka

Magical Mental (lower planatory system) - Kabbalisitc Yetzirah - Sufist higher Malkot - Buddhist Rupa Loka

Magical higher mental (Upper planatory system)- Kabbalistic Atziluth - Sufist Jabarot and Lahot - Buddhist Arupa Loka 

 

In addition I would like to discuss the upper realms (formless and beyond): 

Buddhist four formless realms: infinite space, infinite consciousness, nothingness and neither perception nor non perception.

Magical formless realms: Saturn, Uranus and Neptune/pluto.

Kabbalistic formless realms: Binah, Hokhmah, Kether, EinSof 

Sufist formless realm: Jabarot, Lahot/Mahot

 

As far as I can see only Buddhist system teaches that all of these are Samsara realms we are stuck within it and that Nirvana is beyond. Can you please share your opinions.

 

Thanks

 

[Maddie]

5 minutes ago, Vajra Mind said:

As far as I can see only Buddhist system teaches that all of these are Samsara realms we are stuck within it and that Nirvana is beyond. Can you please share your opinions.

 

I have found this to be the case as well. All the realms, even the highest ones are still within Samsara and therefore impermanent. The only thing that is impermanent according to the Buddha is Nirvana.

[snowymountains]

I believe that what the Orphics taught may bear some loose similarities to the realms being are impermanent and a way to break the cycle between impermanent realms.

Eg when someone dies they go to the lower world but not forever.

Prior to rebirth s/he can drink the water of forgetfulness and have a rebirth, or , if they know and follow the Orphic teachings, they may drink the water of knowledge and break the cycle of ignorance.

 

The similarities are there but they're loose.

[old3bob]

On 12/22/2023 at 5:22 PM, Vajra Mind said:

Hi Everyone, 

 

Different esoteric systems have developed different cosmology of our universe/existence/being. There are some disagreements among practitioners and followers about the nature, relationship, number and structure of theses realms, but that is fine because theses differences reflects the depth of perception of the developers/followers and their mental constructs (affected by imputed beliefs and system of initiations). 

 

I honestly do not know how to make a good start or introduction but the only way that cross my mind is to give examples from Buddhist, Kabbalistic. Sufist and magical systems and I hope you can share what you know. 

 

Buddha describes Samsaric world having 31 planes of existence. They fall under 3 major categories based on their quality: Kamma Loka (sensual world), Rupa Loka (form realm) and at the peak is the Arupa Loka (formless realm). What is beyond those realms of Samsara is Nirvana. In my opinion the previously mentioned 3 categories can be reduced into 2 categories just Form realms vs Formless realms. Basically in the form realms entities have mind and a formed body while in formless realm there is no forms/bodies/material just minds. However, I have noticed that Buddhist system is the only system that gives life span to each entity within each sphere or realm before rebirth takes place into another realm. Are you aware of other systems that offers life span to each entity in those realms? 

 

Kabbalah and Greek magical systems in the West are heavily interwoven. I am baised towards practitioners who view the Kabbalistic tree of life as realms of existence where entities resides and take rebirth within (not the ones who see it as just mental states). I will give a simplified comparative analogies (with some conservatism) based on description of form and formless:

 

Magical Astral - Kabbalistic Assiah - Sufist lower Malakot - Buddhist Kamma Loka

Magical Mental (lower planatory system) - Kabbalisitc Yetzirah - Sufist higher Malkot - Buddhist Rupa Loka

Magical higher mental (Upper planatory system)- Kabbalistic Atziluth - Sufist Jabarot and Lahot - Buddhist Arupa Loka 

 

In addition I would like to discuss the upper realms (formless and beyond): 

Buddhist four formless realms: infinite space, infinite consciousness, nothingness and neither perception nor non perception.

Magical formless realms: Saturn, Uranus and Neptune/pluto.

Kabbalistic formless realms: Binah, Hokhmah, Kether, EinSof 

Sufist formless realm: Jabarot, Lahot/Mahot

 

As far as I can see only Buddhist system teaches that all of these are Samsara realms we are stuck within it and that Nirvana is beyond. Can you please share your opinions.

 

Thanks

 

 

nope, there are other schools that teach beyond changing realms...Buddhism is the young pup on the block.

Edited January 20 by old3bob

[Vajra Mind]

On 1/6/2024 at 2:41 AM, snowymountains said:

I believe that what the Orphics taught may bear some loose similarities to the realms being are impermanent and a way to break the cycle between impermanent realms.

Eg when someone dies they go to the lower world but not forever.

Prior to rebirth s/he can drink the water of forgetfulness and have a rebirth, or , if they know and follow the Orphic teachings, they may drink the water of knowledge and break the cycle of ignorance.

 

The similarities are there but they're loose.

 

Interesting. I will be reading about that. 

 

Thanks 

[Vajra Mind]

On 1/20/2024 at 6:34 AM, old3bob said:

 

nope, there are other schools that teach beyond changing realms...Buddhism is the young pup on the block.

 

Can you please share more please. Something I can read or find?

 

[old3bob]

6 hours ago, Vajra Mind said:

 

Can you please share more please. Something I can read or find?

 

 

For one Hinduism, aka Sanatana Dharma, the eternal law, not founded by mankind or a person at a certain time or in a certain place...  (granted some its cultural and religious parts are not easily adapted to western ways)

 

(btw, "eternal" as you may know is not kosher to some ways)

 

Edited January 29 by old3bob

[Vajra Mind]

52 minutes ago, old3bob said:

 

For one Hinduism, aka Sanatana Dharma, the eternal law, not founded by mankind or a person at a certain time or in a certain place...  (granted some its cultural and religious parts are not easily adapted to western ways)

 

(btw, "eternal" as you may know is not kosher to some ways)

 

 

I see. I will do further reading in that matter. 

 

Thanks. 

[old3bob]

20 minutes ago, Vajra Mind said:

 

I see. I will do further reading in that matter. 

 

Thanks. 

 

Sure,  I'd suggest the major Upanishads which are not meant to be sectarian, being that sects often disagree on minor and even major points.

[SirPalomides]

In the classic geocentric Western cosmology developed from Plato and Aristotle, the realm of the four elements below the lunar sphere is where things are impermanent and constantly changing. Everything from the moon outward is eternal. This is the cosmology that was basically standard up until Copernicus. You see it all over ancient and medieval literature, e.g. Dante's Divine Comedy. 

 

A short and sweet summary can be found in the Dream of Scipio at the end of Cicero's Republic. The commentary on this passage by Macrobius was hugely important for transmitting this cosmology to the Latin-speaking world. 

 

Quote

As I gazed still more fixedly at the earth, Africanus said : "How long will your thoughts be fixed upon the lowly earth ? Do you not see what lofty regions you have entered ? These are the nine circles, or rather spheres, by which the whole is joined. One of them, the outermost, is that of heaven; it contains all the rest, and is itself the supreme God, holding and embracing within itself all the other spheres ; in it are fixed the eternal revolving courses of the stars. Beneath it are seven other spheres which revolve in the opposite direction to that of heaven. One of these globes is that light which on earth is called Saturn's. Next comes the star called Jupiter's, which brings fortune and health to mankind. Beneath it that star, red and terrible to the dwellings of man, which you assign to Mars. Below it and almost midway of the distance is the Sun, the lord, chief, and ruler of the other lights, the mind and guiding principle of the universe, of such magnitude that he reveals and fills all things with his light. He is accompanied by his companions, as it were - Venus and Mercury in their orbits, and in the lowest sphere revolves the Moon, set on fire by the rays of the Sun. But below the Moon there is nothing except what is mortal and doomed to decay, save only the souls given to the human race by the bounty of the gods, while above the Moon all things are eternal. For the ninth and central sphere, which is the earth, is immovable and the lowest of all, and toward it all ponderable bodies are drawn by their own natural tendency downward.

 

Edited January 29 by SirPalomides