Jesus in India ( Himalayas)

[old3bob]

7 hours ago, Chang dao ling said:

I believe this. Because in Auto biography of Yogi. Yogananda mentioned Jesus has very close connection with Maha avatar Baba ( he is physical immortal)

 

I read that around 40+ years ago...Hinduism, especially certain Tamil Saivite sects (also Buddhism) and Bible Christianity are like oil and water and never shall the two mix.  Jesus did not teach the Self/Brahman and  soul merger that brings unique souls to an end, he taught of soul being in and lasting in heavenly realms.

 

And sure there is some common ground across most religions and their peoples but that doesn't mean they are somehow the same or that their particular and in certain ways very different teachings  can be melded together. 

 

Edited January 10 by old3bob

[Master Logray]

8 hours ago, Nungali said:

1. The present day Palestinian and Arab territories were a Hindu land.

 

Isn't that good?  Peace finally.

[oak]

19 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

And I think there is even a more radical one, namely, "love thine enemy" !!  Which was unheard of for that age and for most all the ages and historical cultures of mankind.  (maybe someone knows of some exceptions?)

 

 

Maybe unheard but practiced

 

[oak]

4 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

 Jesus did not teach the Self/Brahman and  soul merger that brings unique souls to an end, he taught of soul being in and lasting in heavenly realms.

 

 

 

Edited January 10 by oak

[old3bob]

1 hour ago, oak said:

 

 

 

umm, that sounds nice but Jesus also said I do nothing except by the Father, so sounds like two in one which is not one in one... Also Samuel and Saul were both Jews or Hebrews and not enemies' like those that the Jewish God ordered wiped out here and there in the O.T.

 

In Hinduism there is no eternal hell as often stated in the Bible along with lots of other differences so trying to equate or rationalize them together is still trying to mix water and oil.

Edited January 10 by old3bob

[oak]

59 minutes ago, old3bob said:

 

umm, that sounds nice but Jesus also said I do nothing except by the Father, so sounds like two in one which is not one in one... Also Samuel and Saul were both Jews or Hebrews and not enemies' like those that the Jewish God ordered wiped out here and there in the O.T.

 

In Hinduism there is no eternal hell as often stated in the Bible along with lots of other differences so trying to equate or rationalize them together is still trying to mix water and oil.

1.You're replying without even having read my posts properly.

2. Your lack of knowledge of the bible with statements like: "eternal hell as often stated in the bible" is evident.

3. What's the point of defending ideas so vehemently if you never gave them proper thought and study?

 

[old3bob]

13 minutes ago, oak said:

1.You're replying without even having read my posts properly.

2. Your lack of knowledge of the bible with statements like: "eternal hell as often stated in the bible" is evident.

3. What's the point of defending ideas so vehemently if you never gave them proper thought and study?

 

 

wrong and nothing i said is false,  the Bible repeatedly remarks about enteral hell, for instance in Revelations, and in the O.T. God orders the wiping out of certain tribes/people...it has all been there in text for a very, very long time and no one needs to be a scholar to read it.

 

New Age like sentiments to say Bible text is otherwise are some kind of wishful thinking

Edited January 10 by old3bob

[oak]

2 minutes ago, old3bob said:

 

wrong and nothing i said is false,  the Bible repeatedly remarks about enteral hell, for instance in Revelations, and in the O.T. God orders the wiping out of certain tribes/people...it has all been there in text for a very, very long time and no one needs to be a scholar to read it.

 

Can you explain to me what's that concept "hell"?

[old3bob]

3 minutes ago, oak said:

 

Can you explain to me what's that concept "hell"?

 

read your Bible

[oak]

3 minutes ago, old3bob said:

 

read your Bible

 

 

[old3bob]

your game? -squawk and avoid the Bible text, 

[oak]

Nope, unlike you I know what I'm talking about.

[Sir Darius the Clairvoyent]

7 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

did you not say several times in this string that you were not getting paid?  thus that's a symbol of payment and meant in good humor...

Well, idk. 
 

BUT, i think he gets paid, and he pays me. Recipriocity, growth, broadened perspective, banter… Whats not to like;) 

 

Me and @Nungali has been PMing for a while, and i am very gratefull for that. Really.

 

He did made me join his cult with help of black magic, where we harras people for their faith and for their faith only of course, (because we are biased and accademics can be wrong (but fictonal Moses cannot)).

[old3bob]

54 minutes ago, oak said:

Nope, unlike you I know what I'm talking about.

 

sure you do...

[Sir Darius the Clairvoyent]

21 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

But did they originate in Christian  lands ?   And why do people think  they did ?

 

'Popular'  History seems to have swept the originators under the carpet .

 

Human rights /  more  egalitarian forms of government  ..... better sexual equality ..... animal  rights encoded in legislation ..... protection of the environment (again within legislation ) .... and perhaps even the whole ethical foundation o/f western civilization

 

? 

 

Generally :

https://infinitediscoveries.org/zoroastrianism-an-ancient-persian-faith-and-the-foundations-of-western-civilization/

 

Sexual equality :

" Women in ancient Persia had more rights and greater freedom than any other ancient civilization including, according to some scholars, even ancient Egypt which is famous for its respect for the feminine principle in religion as well as daily life "

 

https://www.worldhistory.org/article/1493/twelve-great-women-of-ancient-persia/

 

Animals :

"Religion is often criticized for failing to uphold animal concerns, yet Zoroastrianism, an ancient religion that underlies the Abrahamic traditions as well as Eastern religions, offers some strikingly contemporary concerns regarding the kinship of human and nonhuman animals. Human and nonhuman animals alike have souls, free will, and life after death. In the middle of the second millennium BCE, Zoroaster called attention to the treatment of animals as necessary to the divine order and righteousness that has been disturbed by evil and sin. How humans treat animals also affects their own well-being in this world and the next."

 

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/358395192_Zoroaster_and_the_Animals

 

Environment ;

General  - contemporary ;

 

https://parsi-times.com/2021/11/our-environment-a-zoroastrian-perspective/

It is interresting, but, i wonder If not maybe indo-euro culture in general would be a more logical explanation then zoroastrianism alone? Seems a little far fetched to have traveled that far in that route over such a long time.

 

that makes me wonder that the traits you mentioned might come from before the indo-aryan and indo euro split. Like, greece, the germanic nations etc. share a loooong history of democratic institutions.

 

tacitus mentioned as well that the germanic people had such respect for women, so much that it almost was embarrasing. And in the way they thread their women, they were alone among all of the barbarians (basically non-romans), who they even surpassed in this area. Likevise, women in norse society seems to have enjoyed an enourmus amount of eqauility and rights (all though we shouldnt confuse this with modern concepts of femininism).  
 

When it comes to animal conditions… well, the hindus are probally by far the most advanced in this regard, so kudos to them, but i do not belive that european farmers threated their animals like trash either… and animal rights is still something people care a lot about here in Europe. The occasionsl animal sacrifice undouptly took place at times, and can be thraced back to the PIE creation myth im sure you are familiar with. But my sense is, that this was more like the yearly slaughter of a goat at julblot (yule offering) then something they did on a regular basis. By mythologies, the norse cosmos is by far the one im most familiar with, and that seems quite animalistic in my eyes.

 

 

[oak]

Go on Bob, have the last word, go for it 😆

[Nungali]

9 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

did you not say several times in this string that you were not getting paid?  thus that's a symbol of payment and meant in good humor...

 

Okay . Now it makes it sense .

 

if you had posted that under  a  quote of me saying that then I would have got it .

 

But thanks for explaining  , it  means you aren't as senile as I thought you where  .... well  ......  you do realize that isnt real money ? 

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Nungali]

9 hours ago, Master Logray said:

 

Isn't that good?  Peace finally.

 

Oh yes .... being a Hindu land certainly brings peace  

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/apr/18/hatred-bigotry-and-untruth-communal-violence-grips-india

 

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/may/08/horrific-stories-thousands-flee-ethnic-violence-north-east-india-manipur

 

^  tip of the iceberg

[Nungali]

3 hours ago, oak said:

 

Can you explain to me what's that concept "hell"?

 

You need Catholics for that    

[Nungali]

3 hours ago, oak said:

 

 

 

 

Beautiful plumage !

[oak]

20 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

 

Beautiful plumage !

Still a parrot

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, NaturaNaturans said:

It is interresting, but, i wonder If not maybe indo-euro culture in general would be a more logical explanation then zoroastrianism alone? Seems a little far fetched to have traveled that far in that route over such a long time.

 

I am not suggesting that influence comes from Zoroastrianism alone .  The original dispersion would have been before IE  and IE dispersion before Zoroastrianism .

 

that makes me wonder that the traits you mentioned might come from before the indo-aryan and indo euro split.

 

Indeed .

 

Like, greece, the germanic nations etc. share a loooong history of democratic institutions.

 

There seems two currents that the IE carried ; one was a type of opposite ; a warlord , patriarchal , raid and run culture . The other, which may have arrived later , a more egalitarian  approach with animal and environmental considerations .  This possibly relates to early Holocene post dispersion (and relating to later horse domestication ) .

 

tacitus mentioned as well that the germanic people had such respect for women, so much that it almost was embarrasing. And in the way they thread their women, they were alone among all of the barbarians (basically non-romans), who they even surpassed in this area. Likevise, women in norse society seems to have enjoyed an enourmus amount of eqauility and rights (all though we shouldnt confuse this with modern concepts of femininism).  

 

Yes , we should realize that the  'equality' noted by some historians was in opposition to their own society , eg  Greeks writing about how others treated their women ..... women didnt have it very good in Greece , not compared to some  other or later  cultures .
 

When it comes to animal conditions… well, the hindus are probally by far the most advanced in this regard, so kudos to them, but i do not belive that european farmers threated their animals like trash either… and animal rights is still something people care a lot about here in Europe.

 

Yes  but these are latter developments of an earlier impetus .

 

 

 

The occasionsl animal sacrifice undouptly took place at times, and can be thraced back to the PIE creation myth im sure you are familiar with. But my sense is, that this was more like the yearly slaughter of a goat at julblot (yule offering) then something they did on a regular basis. By mythologies, the norse cosmos is by far the one im most familiar with, and that seems quite animalistic in my eyes.

 

There is a big difference - spiritually -  between a 'shamanic  thank you to the Gods and the animal spirits  for a good hunt / herd'  and a 'black magic' rite of killing an animal , and using its life force , or offering that life force to a wrathful Jehovah like deity to get what you want ... usually success in war and violence . 

 

 

[Nungali]

5 minutes ago, oak said:

Still a parrot

 

Yes but, if even a parrot could cite those references  it would still prove that the Bible talks about eternal damnation .... wouldn't  it ?

 

So I wondering what your objection to  references about eternal damnation in the Bible  is about ?

 

Do you really think they are not in there ?

[oak]

11 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

Yes but, if even a parrot could cite those references  it would still prove that the Bible talks about eternal damnation .... wouldn't  it ?

 

So I wondering what your objection to  references about eternal damnation in the Bible  is about ?

 

Do you really think they are not in there ?

 

The discussion is about the concept of "hell". What "hell" is all about.

Yes, the expression eternal damnation or punishment is in the bible...not denying that. Like anything needs interpretation.

Edited January 10 by oak

[Sir Darius the Clairvoyent]

8 minutes ago, Nungali said:

There is a big difference - spiritually -  between a 'shamanic  thank you to the Gods and the animal spirits  for a good hunt / herd'  and a 'black magic' rite of killing an animal , and using its life force , or offering that life force to a wrathful Jehovah like deity to get what you want ... usually success in war and violence . 

 

gen:

 

26Then God said, “Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky, over the livestock and all the wild animals, a and over all the creatures that move along the ground.”

 

(…)
 

But for Adam f no suitable helper was found. 21So the Lord God caused the man to fall into a deep sleep; and while he was sleeping, he took one of the man’s ribs g and then closed up the place with flesh. 22Then the Lord God made a woman from the rib hhe had taken out of the man, and he brought her to the man.

 

(…)

The man said, “The woman whom you gave to be with me, she gave me fruit of the tree, and I ate.”

Then the LORD God asked the woman, "What have you done?" "The snake deceived me, and I ate," the woman answered.

So the LORD God said to the serpent, “Because you have done this, “Cursed are you above all livestock and all wild animals! You will crawl on your belly and you will eat dust all the days of your life.

 

Deut:

 

Clean and Unclean Food

14 You are the children of the Lord your God. Do not cut yourselves or shave the front of your heads for the dead, 2 for you are a people holyto the Lord your God. Out of all the peoples on the face of the earth, the Lord has chosen you to be his treasured possession.

3 Do not eat any detestable thing. 4 These are the animals you may eat: the ox, the sheep, the goat, 5 the deer, the gazelle, the roe deer, the wild goat, the ibex, the antelope and the mountain sheep.[d] 6 You may eat any animal that has a divided hoof and that chews the cud.7 However, of those that chew the cud or that have a divided hoof you may not eat the camel, the rabbit or the hyrax. Although they chew the cud, they do not have a divided hoof; they are ceremonially unclean for you. 8 The pig is also unclean; although it has a divided hoof, it does not chew the cud. You are not to eat their meat or touch their carcasses.

The Firstborn Animals

19 Set apart for the Lord your God every firstborn male of your herds and flocks. Do not put the firstborn of your cows to work, and do not shear the firstborn of your sheep. 20 Each year you and your family are to eat them in the presence of the Lord your God at the place he will choose. 21 If an animal has a defect, is lame or blind, or has any serious flaw, you must not sacrifice it to the Lord your God. 22 You are to eat it in your own towns. Both the ceremonially unclean and the clean may eat it, as if it were gazelle or deer. 23 But you must not eat the blood; pour it out on the ground like water.

16 However, in the cities of the nations the LORD your God is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. 

 

 

These probally didnt help the cause so much either. Sooo, some comments: my understanding is that whenever it says LORD it refers to Yahwe and not el, and for the last verse…. He really did mean anything that breathes. Children, rabbits, camels you name it