How To Cure Kundalini Psychosis [A Guide]

[blue eyed snake]

15 hours ago, snowymountains said:

 

I'm not too sure they are, for sure their side effects don't look that different.

 

What's being sold as enlightenment instead triggers dangerous psysiological reactions and neurological states that need treatment. If you want to call this judgement, then by all means do, it's fine with me.

 

it's funny really, when that guy told me about his youthful aspirations to become enlightened we both had a good laugh because of that. Although he put in a lot of serious work and time, his idea of becoming enlightened at 20-something as a result of that course in Kriya yoga was of an endearing naivety.

 

You reduce kundalini to a physiological reaction  which, imho, is likewise a sign of naivety.   

 

[snowymountains]

3 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

it's funny really, when that guy told me about his youthful aspirations to become enlightened we both had a good laugh because of that. Although he put in a lot of serious work and time, his idea of becoming enlightened at 20-something as a result of that course in Kriya yoga was of an endearing naivety.

 

You reduce kundalini to a physiological reaction  which, imho, is likewise a sign of naivety.   

 

 

That story though doesn't really say anything about kundalini/tummo being anything more than a physiological reaction, and neither does your ad hominem.

 

Of course you're free to take to consider a physiological reaction as enlightenment as your personal stance to it.

The side effects it often causes though are the only objectively verifiable fact about it.

[Apotheose]

On 16/01/2024 at 12:02 PM, blue eyed snake said:

 

it's funny really, when that guy told me about his youthful aspirations to become enlightened we both had a good laugh because of that. Although he put in a lot of serious work and time, his idea of becoming enlightened at 20-something as a result of that course in Kriya yoga was of an endearing naivety.

 

You reduce kundalini to a physiological reaction  which, imho, is likewise a sign of naivety.   

 

.

Edited April 8 by Apotheose

[Sahaja]

On 1/15/2024 at 2:48 PM, snowymountains said:

 

This is consistent though with Tilopa using a different naming, he wouldn't had used name which was adopted in the future.

 

I don't think the psysiological mechanism it activates is known, maybe it's that, maybe it's a different one.

 

 

Actually the process of subtle yoga described in chapter 7 of the Netra Tantra  describes a process of centralizing this energy , raising it, piercing the chakras and the practitioner being taken beyond the mind to a state of unity with Siva. It was likely written in the mid 8th century. The Tantrasadbhava Tantra, an 8th to 9th century text, references the kundalini energy where it describes it as a sleeping serpent in the belly. This text has a number of elements that are shared with Buddhist tantric texts - seems like sharing went both ways. 

Edited January 17 by Sahaja
Additional context

[snowymountains]

5 hours ago, Sahaja said:

Actually the process of subtle yoga described in chapter 7 of the Netra Tantra  describes a process of centralizing this energy , raising it, piercing the chakras and the practitioner being taken beyond the mind to a state of unity with Siva. It was likely written in the mid 8th century. The Tantrasadbhava Tantra, an 8th to 9th century text, references the kundalini energy where it describes it as a sleeping serpent in the belly. This text has a number of elements that are shared with Buddhist tantric texts - seems like sharing went both ways. 

 

 

From Mark's post it looks like the name kundalini for this technique was assigned later. Tilopa couldn't had called tummo with a different name which was used in future times.

 

The origin of the technique ( not the name assigned to it) is a different topic.

More generally, the origin of Tantra is not Buddhist.

 

The Tibetans claim the tantras come from the Buddha but there's zero historical evidence backing that.

 

Of course they may claim whatever they like, it's just that it's hard to take that view seriously without a shred of historical evidence backing it and plenty of historical evidence that tantra was imported.

 

Edited January 17 by snowymountains

[blue eyed snake]

10 hours ago, Apotheose said:

As far as I remember, I’ve never seen an authentic Kriya Yoga lineage being adressed as a “course”. I know it as an Initiation. Did he call it a course?

 

Narrating about his youth he jokingly did call it a course, yes.

But in fact  he had been living at that place as an intern for over a year, which is quite a commitment for a 20 something guy.

[blue eyed snake]

19 hours ago, snowymountains said:

 

That story though doesn't really say anything about kundalini/tummo being anything more than a physiological reaction, and neither does your ad hominem.

 

Of course you're free to take to consider a physiological reaction as enlightenment as your personal stance to it.

The side effects it often causes though are the only objectively verifiable fact about it.

 

I would not take that as an ad hominem, I did not mean it as that. Comparing you to him is more like an honor then an insult.

 

As to Kundalini being naught more then a physiological reaction. It's useless to talk about that with you. You're obviously sure you're ideas about it are right, or in other words, you're cup is full and new information cannot enter.

 

 

 

[snowymountains]

52 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

I would not take that as an ad hominem, I did not mean it as that. Comparing you to him is more like an honor then an insult.

 

As to Kundalini being naught more then a physiological reaction. It's useless to talk about that with you. You're obviously sure you're ideas about it are right, or in other words, you're cup is full and new information cannot enter.

 

 

 

 

Of course one is free to believe in Santa too and paste the quote to non-believers.

It's probably better to use it though as a reality check when assumptions don't agree with the evidence.

[manitou]

I've been living with the K-thing for may be 30 years.  Very powerful at first (physical), but as the physical lessened, I noticed the presence of a third eye.  Eh.  You're both right.

 

[silent thunder]

On 1/17/2024 at 3:42 AM, snowymountains said:

 

Of course one is free to believe in Santa too and paste the quote to non-believers.

It's probably better to use it though as a reality check when assumptions don't agree with the evidence.

From you contributions so far, this seems like a comment  made into a mirror.

[snowymountains]

6 hours ago, silent thunder said:

From you contributions so far, this seems like a comment  made into a mirror.

 

If you believe kundalini will make you enlightened, I bet it seems so ! 

[blue eyed snake]

On 17-1-2024 at 12:42 PM, snowymountains said:

 

Of course one is free to believe in Santa too and paste the quote to non-believers.

It's probably better to use it though as a reality check when assumptions don't agree with the evidence.

 

Oh yes, of course I do believe in Santa.

 

Santa is not a person, Santa is an idea. When it gets darker outside and cold we have to be more inside. We cannot go out to play or walk when tensions between familymembers rise. So we do our best to react more amicable, we thoughtfully make or buy small presents. Together we clean our home and add some decorations reminding us of light and sprouting greens.

For the smaller ones among us it’s magical, they believe the big man dressed in red and the elves looking in every corner of the house have physical reality. The green smell in the living-room and the glittering decorations add to that magical sphere. The grownups and the big kids create the atmosphere of magic and then are caught in it themselves too.

 

When all is ready we have some festive days with our loved ones, days of rest, love and connecting. After Christmas very slowly the days are getting longer again and we start to look forward to the next year, to new growth both of plants and our own development.

 

Leastwise, that’s what Santa means to me.

 

Spoiler

 

[snowymountains]

17 hours ago, manitou said:

I've been living with the K-thing for may be 30 years.  Very powerful at first (physical), but as the physical lessened, I noticed the presence of a third eye.  Eh.  You're both right.

 

 

Thanks for sharing @manitou

 

By looking at the Chakras, which are not anatomical points, there's one system that fits the locations, the endocrine system.

 

Another interesting parallel is that eg temperature regulation changes, when the thyroid gland goes into hyperthyroidism. Temperature also changes in Tummo.

One can look up even more parallels between the two systems.

 

Playing with it may improve "something" if the significant risks taken do not materialise.

 

I gather for you it worked well, and happy to hear that it went well and no risks materialised. It also looks that the "something" in your case was a sensory enhancement.

 

In any case a sensory enhancement is something different to spiritual enlightenment. Eg people can also be born with increased sensory sensitivies.

 

This may also occur spontaneously, without following a technique whose goal is achieve it. Imo this is also the least risky way to do it.

 

One needs to balance that in some cases risks didn't materialise to all the cases where they did materialise and they had to see endocrinologists or, in other cases, neurologists to help them, in some cases to no avail unfortunately.

 

In this technique the goal is overstated, the risks understated and the process is assigned an almost magical flavour. So it's classic mis-selling.

 

In any case, the above is not specific to you, you're not doing any mis-selling, you're sharing a personal experience which also went well, so happy it worked well for you, and enjoy the benefit reaped!

 

 

 

Edited January 20 by snowymountains

[snowymountains]

2 hours ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

Oh yes, of course I do believe in Santa.

 

Santa is not a person, Santa is an idea. When it gets darker outside and cold we have to be more inside. We cannot go out to play or walk when tensions between familymembers rise. So we do our best to react more amicable, we thoughtfully make or buy small presents. Together we clean our home and add some decorations reminding us of light and sprouting greens.

For the smaller ones among us it’s magical, they believe the big man dressed in red and the elves looking in every corner of the house have physical reality. The green smell in the living-room and the glittering decorations add to that magical sphere. The grownups and the big kids create the atmosphere of magic and then are caught in it themselves too.

 

When all is ready we have some festive days with our loved ones, days of rest, love and connecting. After Christmas very slowly the days are getting longer again and we start to look forward to the next year, to new growth both of plants and our own development.

 

Leastwise, that’s what Santa means to me.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Look I'm happy Santa as a symbol is helping you enjoy Christmas more, symbolically it works like that for a lot of people but I don't really see the parallel to kundalini, a parallel would had been if you assigned symbolic value to kundalini practice.

 

You take kundalini literally as a path to spiritual enlightenment, not a physiological reaction nor symbolically.

Edited January 20 by snowymountains

[liminal_luke]

In the larger sense, everybody is spiritual and everybody is on a path to enlightenenment.  We're all Dorothy on our way to the Emerald City.  Of course not all paths are the same and, to our smaller selves, which path to take often seems a momentous decision.  Some paths are more treacherous, some more direct, some feature finer scenery.  From my reading, I gather that the path of kundalini checks all of the above boxes.

[snowymountains]

1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

In the larger sense, everybody is spiritual and everybody is on a path to enlightenenment.  We're all Dorothy on our way to the Emerald City.  Of course not all paths are the same and, to our smaller selves, which path to take often seems a momentous decision.  Some paths are more treacherous, some more direct, some feature finer scenery. 

That we agree on

 

1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

From my reading, I gather that the path of kundalini checks all of the above boxes.

 

On that not, I'm afraid, kundalini, on its own at least, is not a path to enlightenment, even though it's sold as such.

If it were a good path for that, Tibetan monks would only practice Tummo.

 

Imo folks should really look up the physiological risks before taking any practice and make a judgement on whether enlightenment is something that's caused by playing with core physiological systems in our body.

 

Tummo/kundalini tbh ain't even at the top of the pile for this, eg Phowa is even more risky.

Note that the above is not in contrast with increased awareness experiences becoming embodied, percolating every fiber of our body. 

It doesn't work like cart before the horse though.

 

 

Edited January 20 by snowymountains

[Apotheose]

3 hours ago, snowymountains said:

That we agree on

 

 

On that not, I'm afraid, kundalini, on its own at least, is not a path to enlightenment, even though it's sold as such.

If it were a good path for that, Tibetan monks would only practice Tummo.

 

Imo folks should really look up the physiological risks before taking any practice and make a judgement on whether enlightenment is something that's caused by playing with core physiological systems in our body.

 

Tummo/kundalini tbh ain't even at the top of the pile for this, eg Phowa is even more risky.

Note that the above is not in contrast with increased awareness experiences becoming embodied, percolating every fiber of our body. 

It doesn't work like cart before the horse though.

 

 

As far as I know - and I’m not into Eastern Mysticism apart from Yoga so I might be inaccurate -, the so caled “Kundalini Awakening” is not an specific esoteric practice or school. It is actually a phenomenon that symbolizes the awakening of Kundalini (the Godess) in one’s counsciousness, which would correspond to a degree of “evolution”, or “enlightenment”, or “opening the third eye”, or any other mystical terminology you want to use. Thus, saying that “Kundalini Awakening” is fake or that it’s “not a path to enlightenment” would not make sense in my personal view, as it represents a natural step in one’s journey, regardless of what tradition he belongs to.

 

I’m definitely not aware if there are any gurus or schools apprehending the term “Kundalini” to insinuate that their tradition leads to the “true kundalini awakening”. I truly hope not… I’ve seen even rosicrucians talking about Kundalini as though they were familiar to it.

 

What I’ve seen is: people tend to develop some kind of psychotic conditions due to MISPRACTICE of esotericism. Some practice it without a teacher or without an authentic school, and then they start to become delusional and attribute that to the so called “Kundalini Awakening”, when - actually - the cause of that was their unfortunate life choices of falling for internet gurus and fake mystics all around the internet, rather than seeking out a legitimate Path.

[snowymountains]

8 minutes ago, Apotheose said:

As far as I know - and I’m not into Eastern Mysticism apart from Yoga so I might be inaccurate -, the so caled “Kundalini Awakening” is not an specific esoteric practice or school. It is actually a phenomenon that symbolizes the awakening of Kundalini (the Godess) in one’s counsciousness, which would correspond to a degree of “evolution”, or “enlightenment”, or “opening the third eye”, or any other mystical terminology you want to use. Thus, saying that “Kundalini Awakening” is fake or that it’s “not a path to enlightenment” would not make sense in my personal view, as it represents a natural step in one’s journey, regardless of what tradition he belongs to.

 

I’m definitely not aware if there are any gurus or schools apprehending the term “Kundalini” to insinuate that their tradition leads to the “true kundalini awakening”. I truly hope not… I’ve seen even rosicrucians talking about Kundalini as though they were familiar to it.

 

What I’ve seen is: people tend to develop some kind of psychotic conditions due to MISPRACTICE of esotericism. Some practice it without a teacher or without an authentic school, and then they start to become delusional and attribute that to the so called “Kundalini Awakening”, when - actually - the cause of that was their unfortunate life choices of falling for internet gurus and fake mystics all around the internet, rather than seeking out a legitimate Path.

 

You can do it without the Kundalini Goddess, it's just called Tummo in that case as it's practiced in Tibet.

It's also not a natural step in one's spiritual journey, it's not even practiced in many traditions.

Also, it's not a needed practice, nor does enlighten (why would it?). It's a physiological response, which often has side-effects.

 

This physiological response, can also be dangerous with authentic Guru or no authentic Guru, it's not like Gurus are medically trained.

Of course, when an "authentic Guru" fails to deliver, the practitioner can only be helped by a doctor with 10 years of training and another 10 years of experience.
 

Of course one can practice even more risky techniques, there are plenty out there, that promise even more to their practitioners, like magical teleportation to some version of heaven at the moment of death. With such promises why not practice them after all.

 

But wanted the risks to be known so that someone who reads can evaluate the risk/reward ratio and make a more informed choice on this, instead of perceiving it as their ticket to enlightenment.

 

Other than that, I don't have much to add and thus my contribution to this thread is done, tummo fans can take over 🙂

[blue eyed snake]

22 hours ago, manitou said:

I've been living with the K-thing for may be 30 years.  Very powerful at first (physical), but as the physical lessened, I noticed the presence of a third eye.  Eh.  You're both right.

 

 

nice to see you dear 

[Apotheose]

12 hours ago, snowymountains said:

 

You can do it without the Kundalini Goddess, it's just called Tummo in that case as it's practiced in Tibet.

It's also not a natural step in one's spiritual journey, it's not even practiced in many traditions.

Also, it's not a needed practice, nor does enlighten (why would it?). It's a physiological response, which often has side-effects.

 

This physiological response, can also be dangerous with authentic Guru or no authentic Guru, it's not like Gurus are medically trained.

Of course, when an "authentic Guru" fails to deliver, the practitioner can only be helped by a doctor with 10 years of training and another 10 years of experience.
 

Of course one can practice even more risky techniques, there are plenty out there, that promise even more to their practitioners, like magical teleportation to some version of heaven at the moment of death. With such promises why not practice them after all.

 

But wanted the risks to be known so that someone who reads can evaluate the risk/reward ratio and make a more informed choice on this, instead of perceiving it as their ticket to enlightenment.

 

Other than that, I don't have much to add and thus my contribution to this thread is done, tummo fans can take over 🙂

 

Considering I have no idea of what Tummo is, I’m sure you definitely know much more than I do about it. So I’d have no reason to doubt you.

 

But keep in mind that there’s no such thing as a need to be medically trained, because legitimate and accepted lineages of esotericism are not dangerous at all.

 

Since the very basis of the ‘seek for enlightenment’ journey is the desire to be comfortable living under your own skin and achieving Peace, it wouldn’t make sense to consider as “authentic esotericism” a tradition/practice which will likely give you mental health problems.

 

Therefore, there’s no such thing as a need to evaluate a risk/reward ratio to make a choice about practicing something. If you ever happen to hear that some esoteric practice does have a RISK, simply do not do it. Esotericism should not have any risks!!!!!!!!

A pupil who studies and practices from an authentic mystery school or teacher (not a “guru”) has no need to be remotely afraid of developing psychosis. All it takes is talking to other mystics and investigating to test if X or Y or Z is a legitimate tradition or not.

 

p.s.: of course “making contact with intermediate beings”, “incorporating non-incarnated spirits” or any other kind of EXOTERIC practices can lead to health risks even if made with the support of an exoteric school, since you are not dealing with yourself but rather with ‘external forces’. On the other hand, as I said, ESOTERIC practices should never be considered as dangerous. And if so, their tradition must be heavily doubted and heavily investigated.

Edited January 21 by Apotheose

[old3bob]

regardless of any school or its teacher's (including those with true guru) as long as one has any potential left of being turned then that danger has not yet been eliminated,  but if one has willingly chosen to go to and "past the point of no return", which only they can decide thus not their school for them,  (although the school will be watching) then in that case there is nothing left that can be turned...(to evil ways)

Edited January 21 by old3bob

[Apotheose]

7 hours ago, old3bob said:

regardless of any school or its teacher's (including those with true guru) as long as one has any potential left of being turned then that danger has not yet been eliminated,  but if one has willingly chosen to go to and "past the point of no return", which only they can decide thus not their school for them,  (although the school will be watching) then in that case there is nothing left that can be turned...(to evil ways)

I get what you’re saying. Indeed, if a person is not completely “turned” (like Moses, Jesus, Paramahansa Yogananda etc. were), there’s still room for the Ego and its pertinent “dark” feelings. Egoistic feelings are opposite to the ultimate “enlightenment” (Samadhi), that’s why the Great Masters reached a point where they would not act with their Ego at all, but just for truly salutary reasons and for the benefit of others. So, I would totally agree with you about that.

 

However, that doen’t apply to mental health problems. If a person is not yet “fully enlightened”, that does not mean that there’s still room for mental heath problems like psychosis, mania or schizophrenia. One thing has no remote correlation with the other. Esotericism is a secure path.

[Apotheose]

On 14/01/2024 at 8:24 PM, blue eyed snake said:

As far as I understand it: the idea is that energy, kundalini-energy goes up the spine, when that goes smoothly it reaches the top of the skull and then you're experience enlightenment. But with a lot of people that energy get stuck somewhere and then you get ill and/or psychotic like.

 

not something to play with without a teacher who knows what they do

In my opinion, blue eyed snake ended the discussion in this comment above that I quoted. He is absolutely right. There’s no need to delve into the ‘causes’, but just practice it correctly with someone who knows what they’re doing.

[old3bob]

8 hours ago, Apotheose said:

I get what you’re saying. Indeed, if a person is not completely “turned” (like Moses, Jesus, Paramahansa Yogananda etc. were), there’s still room for the Ego and its pertinent “dark” feelings. Egoistic feelings are opposite to the ultimate “enlightenment” (Samadhi), that’s why the Great Masters reached a point where they would not act with their Ego at all, but just for truly salutary reasons and for the benefit of others. So, I would totally agree with you about that.

 

However, that doen’t apply to mental health problems. If a person is not yet “fully enlightened”, that does not mean that there’s still room for mental heath problems like psychosis, mania or schizophrenia. One thing has no remote correlation with the other. Esotericism is a secure path.

 

not sure about your meaning on the 2nd paragraph....Btw. I don't know the names and dates but have read that some advanced Rishis in history did turn to the dark side, which seems surprising since it would seem they would be "secure". 

[Apotheose]

3 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

not sure about your meaning on the 2nd paragraph....Btw. I don't know the names and dates but have read that some advanced Rishis in history did turn to the dark side, which seems surprising since it would seem they would be "secure". 

 

Sorry for that. What I meant is that there’s no natural correlation between esotericism and mental health problems. If there are any people who became psychotic from esoteric practices, it must be due to mispractice of it.

 

And the mispractice would mean that: as there are traditions which present methods that engender very sudden and strong fluxes of energy, it would not be recommended to practice them without the guidance of a teacher or school.

 

I’ve never studied the Rishis, but I’ve read something similar about some of the Catholic Church’s Saints. Although they were naturally very “talented” for spirituality and already pretty high on the Path to enlightenment, they experienced very dark periods which are known as the Dark Night of the Soul.

 

In my speculative view - and from the things I read about it -, it seems that the Dark Night of the Soul is a phenomenon that happens with people who are ‘almost Masters’ - meaning that they are very high on the Path, and not “normal seekers” anymore. It seems to be ‘the last trial’ of a mystic, and it is generally related to Ego’s Death. Perhaps they’re the most painful experiences because the counsciousness may be disconnecting from the Ego, and therefore that means absolute resignation of one’s very deep ingrained beliefs.

 

So what I mean is, these Ego/Egoless trials - despite being very painful - are indeed, for some people, a step in the Great Journey. However, that has nothing to do with mental disorders, like psychosis and others. Psychosis can never be a step in the Path of Enlightenment.

 

I don’t think anyone would be happy to develop mental disorders as a biproduct of something that was originally a desire for Peace and Self-Mastery. So, if there really are ‘bad practices’ out there, we should just rule them out and call them “bullshit” instead of “esotericism”. Sorry for the bad language. And the ‘good practices’, we must always practice them with the guidance of a teacher until further instructions.

Edited January 22 by Apotheose