Types of paths

[Maddie]

I have pondered the various ways in which people seek to better themselves and their lives. I state it this way because it seems no matter which method one approaches this goal, the goal generally is the same, which is a better quality of life. I'm waiting for a heater repairman at the moment and have a few minutes to kill, so I was contemplating the various ways in which people use to accomplish these goals. These are just a few broad categories that I have observed. Feel free to interject your perspective.

 

1. The Religious path: this path tends to rely on rituals and rules for inner development and usually some type of morality is emphasized. 

 

2. The Spiritual path: this one differs from the religious path in that there is more emphasis on direct personal experience as opposed to ritual. 

 

3. The Physical path: this path focuses on the physical body as it sees the body and mind as either connected or synonymous. This path includes  things like exercising, yoga, qigong, martial arts, ect.

 

4. The Intellectual path: this is the way of study. So reading texts and things like that. This is the primary approach of schools like Confucianism. It approaches the path via the intellect. 

 

I'm sure there could be other categories but these are the four that I observe again and again. I'm sure much could be said for the pros and cons of each. Let me know what you all think. Also if you feel inclined share which path appeals to you the most and why.

Edited January 14 by Maddie

[kakapo]

So a weight lifter lifts weights, eats a good diet with lots of protein, and rests his body well.

 

Over time he builds muscle. 

 

How would you classify a system that is exactly like that, but that extracts energy from the environment to build a physical spirit which mirrors the body. 

 

 

Edited January 14 by kakapo

[Maddie]

2 minutes ago, kakapo said:

So a weight lifter lifts weights, eats a good diet with lots of protein, and rests his body well.

 

Over time he builds muscle. 

 

What would consider a system that is exactly like that, but that extracts energy from the environment to build a physical spirit which mirrors the body. 

 

 

 

I guess that sounds like a little bit of both the spiritual and the physical path I think. The building of muscle being physical, and the building of a "spirit body" spiritual. 

Edited January 14 by Maddie

[Nungali]

How one can enter the path .... it was a great list of possibilities , I wish I could remember the reference and quote it .

 

it listed stuff like ; 'accidental'  ; the wanderer , seeker or hero , stumbles across it in the woods or forest , maybe its a ruined castle or crypt with a sleeping princess or treasure or magic weapon .

 

Maybe through your proclivities you sought it out consciously .  Maybe you where born into a tradition or family - inheritance .

 

maybe you where ' captured ' you ended up where you should not have been   ( that one is played out in a few initiation scenarios ) .

 

The there are the paths of magick and yoga ... their different types  :

 

YOGA AND MAGIC

I. Yoga is the art of uniting the mind to a single idea. It has four methods.

Gnana-Yoga.	Union by Knowledge.
Raja-Yoga.	Union by Will.
Bhakta-Yoga.	Union by Love.
Hatha-Yoga.	Union by Courage.
add Mantra-Yoga.	Union through Speech.
Karma-Yoga.	Union through Work.

These are united by the supreme method of Silence.

II. Ceremonial Magic is the art of uniting the mind to a single idea.

It has four Methods.

The Holy Qabalah.	Union by Knowledge.
The Sacred Magic.	Union by Will.
The Acts of Worship.	Union by Love.
The Ordeals.	Union by Courage.
add The Invocations.	Union by Speech.
The Acts of Service.	Union through Work.

These are united by the supreme method of Silence. {199}

III. If this idea be any but the Supreme and Perfect idea, and the student lose control, the result is insanity, obsession, fanaticism, or paralysis and death (add addiction to gossip and incurable idleness), according to the nature of the failure.

 

 

[liminal_luke]

I like to do physical things for spiritual reasons, so put me down as a physical/spiritual hybrid guy.  An example might be qigong -- physical movements that I perform with the hope of developing spiritually.  This is opposed to physical movements that are done solely for physical benefits, like lifting weights to get big muscles.  

 

To these four paths I'd add a fourth -- introspective self-awareness.  I think the start of all searching is values clarification.  Once I know what's important to me then I can figure out how I want to live.  Taking time to get to know myself -- through conversation with friends, journaling, deep thought, maybe therapy -- is central to my process.  This path could potentially underlie and inform any of the other paths laid out.

[silent thunder]

I've yet to experience one aspect of the physical that is devoid of spirit.

[Sanity Check]

15 hours ago, Maddie said:

I'm sure there could be other categories but these are the four that I observe again and again. I'm sure much could be said for the pros and cons of each. Let me know what you all think. Also if you feel inclined share which path appeals to you the most and why.

 

 

1. The Religious path: various forms of traditional and historic metaphysics. There is typically some form of established framework that goes with this.

 

2. The Spiritual path: seeking connection with nature, ancestors, spirits, deities, aliens, etc. This is close to the religious path. Except there is less of an established framework. With the path and moral code being more subjective and arbitrary.

 

3. The Physical path: exercising the body to stimulate the spirit and mind. Fasting to cleanse and heal the body. Which in turn stimulates the mind and spirit. (Example - there was a supercomputer chip designer called Seymour Cray who was notorious for digging enormous holes in his backyard to stimulate his brain to help empower his problem solving.)

 

4. The Intellectual path: sharpening the mind & expanding knowledge in search of growth, wisdom or enlightenment. (It sounds impressive until you realize sudoku puzzles or video games might qualify.)

[Maddie]

7 hours ago, silent thunder said:

I've yet to experience one aspect of the physical that is devoid of spirit.

 

I've noticed this in the most unlikely of places. I've seen weightlifter bro dudes at the gym get to this zone, where I was looking at them and wondering to myself, did this guy achieve Samadhi?  LOL

[silent thunder]

It seems that my local awareness has been drawn into the spiritual aspect of reality by the innate spirituality of the physical nigh on as often as the spiritual has pierced  the veil of the physical to draw me forth.  Spirit and physical seem at this point as multiple facets of one gem, multiple expressions of one process, each reflecting the whole of the individual within which they manifest are an expression of...

 

Not one system this one has explored has been entirely devoid of either the spirit nor the physical, they seemingly relfect one another or co- rise within this sphere of influence ^{(not that this a claim to some all encompassing authority on my part, but a sharing of my experience regarding the topic).}

 

 

Edited January 16 by silent thunder
altered the phrase for manifest

[Mark Foote]

For me, it's all about necessity, actualized through the point of interface between waking and sleeping.  

I'm not sure how that fits in the categories you listed, Maddie.  In a way it's staying alive to particular senses (equanimity in the vestibulars, gravity in the otoliths, placement in the proprioceptors, and spatial orientation in the eyes), so more physical than spiritual, except where the interface depends on a compassion that extends to the other side of the wall (and beyond).  The extension of compassion, out of necessity.

Edited January 16 by Mark Foote

[snowymountains]

Well all

 

1. Morality is emphasised everywhere.

 

2. Applies to all meditative paths, that's core to most Buddhist paths.

 

3. Via my Zen practice. Zen practice is embodied, though perhaps this is not as apparent as eg for someone doing Qigong practice.

 

4. Sutta study for my Theravada practice . I read the writings of masters from my Zen lineage too. Also study of Buddhist psychology.

 

I think one can do 3/4 if they follow a single practice, but it's hard to see how someone could practice 1/4.

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, Mark Foote said:

For me, it's all about necessity, actualized through the point of interface between waking and sleeping.  

 

...
 

 

 

[Maddie]

34 minutes ago, snowymountains said:

Well all

 

1. Morality is emphasised everywhere.

 

2. Applies to all meditative paths, that's core to most Buddhist paths.

 

3. Via my Zen practice. Zen practice is embodied, though perhaps this is not as apparent as eg for someone doing Qigong practice.

 

4. Sutta study for my Theravada practice . I read the writings of masters from my Zen lineage too. Also study of Buddhist psychology.

 

I think one can do 3/4 if they follow a single practice, but it's hard to see how someone could practice 1/4.

 

I don't think a person would do 1/4 exclusively but as a matter of emphasis or maybe not and they are well rounded.

[snowymountains]

18 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

I don't think a person would do 1/4 exclusively but as a matter of emphasis or maybe not and they are well rounded.

 

A friend who practices Christianity vigorously does so at 3/4 ( doesn't do embodied practices ) and he focuses on all 3.

 

I don't know anything that goes below 3/4 for a vigorous practitioner.

 

For a non-vigorous one I guess, they can do 2/4, follow ethics and read/hear about theology/religious philosophy.

 

Of course one can always go 0/4 and still claim to follow a religion or spiritual path 😁.

[Maddie]

1 hour ago, snowymountains said:

 

A friend who practices Christianity vigorously does so at 3/4 ( doesn't do embodied practices ) and he focuses on all 3.

 

I don't know anything that goes below 3/4 for a vigorous practitioner.

 

For a non-vigorous one I guess, they can do 2/4, follow ethics and read/hear about theology/religious philosophy.

 

Of course one can always go 0/4 and still claim to follow a religion or spiritual path 😁.

 

I would imagine a site like this wouldn't really attract anybody or very few people who are 0/4. But I think out in the general public there are lots of them.

[silent thunder]

Depending on the conditions of outer life and my inner landscape, the emphasis and focus of my praxis shifts accordingly throughout the seasons and longer term on the life path.  

 

Not all aspects of the entire system of study are necessarily beneficial at all times to the overarching process, if that resonates.

[Master Logray]

I believe in some sort of path dependence in personal development, which means history matters.  Even though the goal is the same, the paths taken affect the persons so much that when the goal is met, the persons are very different.   Take an example, if different persons want to make a huge sum of money.   One of them achieve it by invention, another by building a drug cartel, the last one by politics.   Then these 3 are completely opposite to each other in character, history, outlook and even physically.

 

So the choice of the paths above matters a lot, in a way altered the goal itself.

 

 

[old3bob]

the path of the "sly man" 

[Unota]

This is fun. I think that I do mostly physical and intellectual, but I do spiritual too. I also strongly emphasize morality, but I wouldn't really connect this to religious reasons. More like...on principle. If I personally decide something, I want to follow it and put my money where my mouth is. I don't want to be a hypocrite, is all. So...3/4? I have a book of principles I carry around though...Maybe that is bordering along religious. Sheesh...No wonder people find me a bit annoying. By 'religious' though, I think, that would be relating more to tradition. I wonder if...'self-discovery' can fall under something like spiritual, or if that would be categorizable as it's own path, too.

Edited January 17 by Unota

[Mark Foote]

On 1/16/2024 at 1:48 PM, Nungali said:

 

 

 

... and by a sleep to say we end
The heartache, and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to. ’tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish’d....

To sleep—perchance to dream. Ay, there’s the rub!
For what if, in that dream, the very chair we sit upon in sleep, falleth over...

(Hamlet, appended)

 

 

Edited January 19 by Mark Foote

[Apech]

13 hours ago, Mark Foote said:

 

... and by a sleep to say we end
The heartache, and the thousand natural shocks
That flesh is heir to. ’tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish’d....

To sleep—perchance to dream. Ay, there’s the rub!
For what if, in that dream, the very chair we sit upon in sleep, falleth over...

(Hamlet, appended)

 

 

I could be prisoned in a garden shed yet count myself the king of infinite space.

[Nungali]

 

 

Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer

The buckets and spades  of outrageous fortune,

Or to take  a quick trip to the pub

And by opposing her  then. To die—to peep,

No more; and by peep to say we end

up at  Suzie's  lunch  time strip show

The heart-ache and the thousand natural shocks

That flesh is heir to: 'tis a consummation

Devoutly to be wish'd. To drink, to dream

To sleep, perchance to dream... of Suzie—ay, there's the rub:

One hopes !

For in my snooze  what dreams may come,

When we have raked this garden path

Must give us pause—there's the respect

That makes calamity of so long life.

For who would bear the words and scorns of wife ,

Th'oppressor's wrong, the proud man's contumely,

The pangs of dispriz'd love, the law's delay,

The insolence of office, and the spurns

That patient merit of th'unworthy takes,

When he himself might his quietus make

With a bare bodkin? Who would fardels bear,

To grunt and sweat under a weary life,

and Sunday is the only day off I get to do this

But that the dread of something after the weekend,

The undiscovere'd country, from whose booze

No traveller returns, puzzles the will,

And makes us rather bear those ills we have

Than fly to others that we know not of?

So best to take a cruise ship

Thus conscience doth make cowards of us all,

And thus the native hue of resolution

Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,

And enterprises of great pith and moment

With this regard their currents turn awry

And lose the name of action.

Or should non action be my course

It would , but this pain in lower abdomen

and pressure begs ask to awakane or not  for 'tis a matter of

To pee, or not to pee, that is the question.

 

Edited January 20 by Nungali

[Nungali]

Yes, its that strange world of half dream , half awake .

 

 

 

 

Love unrequited, robs me of me rest,
Love, hopeless love, my ardent soul encumbers,
Love, nightmare like, lies heavy of me chest,
And weaves itself into my midnight slumbers.

When you're lying awake with a dismal headache and
Repose is taboo'd by anxiety,
I conceive you may use any language you choose to
Indulge in, without impropriety;
For your brain is on fire, the bed-clothes conspire of
Usual slumber to plunder you:
First your counter-pane goes, and uncovers your toes,
And your sheet slips demurely from under you;
Then the blanketing tickles, you feel like mixed
Pickles, so terribly sharp is the pricking,
And you're hot and you're cross, and you tumble and
Toss 'til there's nothing 'twixt you and the ticking.
Then the bed-clothes all creep to the ground in a heap
And you pick 'em all up in a tangle;
Next your pillow resigns and politely declines to
Remain at it's usual angle!
Well, you get some repose in the form of a dose, with
Hot eye-balls and head ever aching,
But your slumbering teems with such horrible dreams
That you'd very much better be waking;
For you dream you are crossing the channel, and
Tossing about in a steamer from harwich,
Which is something between a large bathing machine and
A very small second class carriage,
And you're giving a treat (penny ice and cold meat) to
A party of friends and relations,
They're a ravenous horde, and they all come on board
At sloane square and south kensington stations.
And bound on that journey you find your attorney
(who started this morning from devon);
He's a bit undersiz'd and you don't feel surpris'd
When he tells you he's only eleven.
Well you're driving like mad with this singular lad
(by the bye the ship's now a four wheeler),
And you're playing round games, and he calls you bad

Names when you tell him that "ties pay the dealer";
But this you can't stand so you throw up your hand,
And you find you're as cold as an icicle;
In your shirt and your socks (the black silk with gold clocks)
Crossing sal'sbury plain on a bicycle:
And he and the crew are on bicycles too, which they've
Somehow or other invested in,
And he's telling the tars all the particulars of a
Company he's interested in;
It's a scheme of devices, to get at low prices, all
Good from cough mixtures to cables
(which tickled the sailors), by treating retailers as
Though they were all vegetables;
You get a good spadesman to plant a small tradesman
(first take off his boots with a boot tree),
And his legs will take root, and his fingers will
Shoot, and they'll blossom and bud like a fruit tree;
From the green grocer tree you get grapes and green
Pea, cauliflower, pine apple and cranberries,
While the pastry cook plant cherry brandy will grant,
Apple puffs, and three corners, and banburys;
The shares are a penny and ever so many are taken by
Rothschild and baring,
And just as a few are allotted to you, you awake
And with a shudder despairing
You're a regular wreck, with a crick in your neck, and
No wonder you snore, for your head's on the floor
And you've needles and pins from your soles to your
Shins, and your flesh is acreep, for your left leg's asleep,
And you've cramp in your toes, and a fly on your nose,
And some fluff in your lung, and a feverish tongue,
And a thirst that's intense,
And a general sense that you haven't been sleeping in clover;
But the darkness has pass'd, and it's daylight at
Last, and the night has been long, ditto, ditto my song,
And thank goodness they're both of them over!

[dwai]

I would categorize practices in two broad groups, predicated on the objective. For me, spiritual practices are for liberation or Self-realization. So, towards that objective the groups are -

 

Direct Path

Gradual Path 

 

The direct path takes us to the goal directly. Right here, Right now! But not many can handle it. For those there are preparatory practices like stabilizing the body (physical and energetic), stilling the mind, and so on. 
 

The indirect path is an evolutionary one, spanning multiple lifetimes. It involves proper rituals, right conduct, and so on. 

[Mark Foote]

On 1/19/2024 at 11:46 PM, Nungali said:

But your slumbering teems with such horrible dreams
That you'd very much better be waking;
For you dream you are crossing the channel, and
Tossing about in a steamer from harwich,
Which is something between a large bathing machine and
A very small second class carriage,
And you're giving a treat (penny ice and cold meat) to
A party of friends and relations,
They're a ravenous horde, and they all come on board
At sloane square and south kensington stations.

 

 

 

There I was, crossing the channel on a ferry, leaning over the urinal with my upper body so as to direct the vomit to the bottom should it commence, when the guy next to me zips up and says, "time for another liverwurst sandwich!"