zoe Posted March 5 On 3/1/2024 at 5:50 PM, old3bob said: a few days is not a long time...and a nudge for some can act like a push over a cliff, and how many thousands of dead point that out? I don't know but far more than a few. Exactly my point. Substances of almost any kind are dangerous (with a large dependency on context, in the vast majority of cases) but that doesn't exactly mean they don't work, they're just imperfect tools. Perhaps you did not mean it this way, but your past reply struck me as demonizing chemicals which is a pet peeve of mine as it leads people into not acknowledging the real, physical/mental effects (whether they are for better or for worst) of those substances and distorting their perception of the world to accommodate that. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
old3bob Posted March 5 (edited) I'd say that the thousands of dead people from kids to older adults (and their loved ones that remain) wouldn't give a rats ass about your pet peeve. Edited March 5 by old3bob 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zoe Posted March 6 On 3/5/2024 at 8:04 AM, old3bob said: I'd say that the thousands of dead people from kids to older adults (and their loved ones that remain) wouldn't give a rats ass about your pet peeve. I imagine not. But how many more have died because of zealous and ill informed demonization of medicine? I can't give you that number exactly but I don't think that number is small either, personally though if you'd like to know what my stake in this is, I was raised by an emotionally abusive mother with BPD, the kind of woman who thought terminal diseases could be cured with essential oils, and I was denied various medication that I have now which significantly improves my life (not antidepressants though- to be clear) and I came very close to being among those dead children myself. I have a hard time believing that the motivation for your words is closer to sympathy than indignation. 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowymountains Posted March 6 20 minutes ago, zoe said: I was raised by an emotionally abusive mother with BPD Sorry you went through that, I hope you had someone to talk to and protect you as a child. Wishing you to heal from it, your best ally in this is your psy. 1 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zoe Posted March 6 5 minutes ago, snowymountains said: Sorry you went through that, I hope you had someone to talk to and protect you as a child. Wishing you to heal from it, your best ally in this is your psy. Ty, although unfortunately not. In large part I have overcome it though, although my psy addressed problems aren't too thoroughly intertwined at this point, in terms of healing from those things I've been helped far more by my cultivation practices and from therapy. If anything has been hurting me in recent years it is estrangement from my family, that was initially driven by spite and frustration but I now understand that my mother is a weak and materially obsessed person caught in a web of a million neuroses that turn her against herself and everyone around her. I couldn't say much of anything about what my father feels or thinks but he kinda just does what she tells him to so, not much better I suppose. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
old3bob Posted March 6 find where i said all drugs or certain other therapies in all cases are bad....you won't find that since i've never said it, in fact I've said that in some cases such may be needed (and carefully applied and monitored) So your unfortunate past, which most of us have a variation of in our lives is not unique, also you can also keep your presumptions about me in your pocket. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
snowymountains Posted March 6 10 minutes ago, zoe said: Ty, although unfortunately not. In large part I have overcome it though, although my psy addressed problems aren't too thoroughly intertwined at this point, in terms of healing from those things I've been helped far more by my cultivation practices and from therapy. If anything has been hurting me in recent years it is estrangement from my family, that was initially driven by spite and frustration but I now understand that my mother is a weak and materially obsessed person caught in a web of a million neuroses that turn her against herself and everyone around her. I couldn't say much of anything about what my father feels or thinks but he kinda just does what she tells him to so, not much better I suppose. Sorry to hear that, I can really empathise with what you say. You're aware of what happened and aware of yourself, which is really great and clearly you did a lot of work to get where you are 👍 Btw it's common for the partner of someone with BPD to do just that, do as they're told. They're almost (unconsciously) selected because they can fulfill that role.. As her disorder won't change and thus her behaviour won't change. By definition, a disorder implies predictable behaviour, keep that in mind, though it sounds like you know what you're doing 🙂👍. 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zoe Posted March 6 2 hours ago, old3bob said: find where i said all drugs or certain other therapies in all cases are bad....you won't find that since i've never said it, in fact I've said that in some cases such may be needed (and carefully applied and monitored) So your unfortunate past, which most of us have a variation of in our lives is not unique, also you can also keep your presumptions about me in your pocket. I think you're missing the point, but I guess that lines up with you speaking in bad faith. I've made no assumptions, you were speaking of antidepressants in a demonizing manner and I found that reminiscent of my mother's demonization of medicine in general, not that I needed this to make my point, but it felt appropriate since you were speaking in a way that seemed to accuse me of being personally unacquainted with the risks of psychiatric medication. The exact substance of the medical skepticism in your own and her case aren't the same, but they're quite comparable, enough so that it was a valid response. I grow further assured that you are motivated by indignation. 1 2 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
old3bob Posted March 7 15 hours ago, zoe said: I think you're missing the point, but I guess that lines up with you speaking in bad faith. I've made no assumptions, you were speaking of antidepressants in a demonizing manner and I found that reminiscent of my mother's demonization of medicine in general, not that I needed this to make my point, but it felt appropriate since you were speaking in a way that seemed to accuse me of being personally unacquainted with the risks of psychiatric medication. The exact substance of the medical skepticism in your own and her case aren't the same, but they're quite comparable, enough so that it was a valid response. I grow further assured that you are motivated by indignation. sounds you might need some help with your self created attack habit, Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
silent thunder Posted March 7 2 hours ago, old3bob said: sounds you might need some help with your self created attack habit, That's a rich projection of your own posting style mate! 1 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
old3bob Posted March 7 11 minutes ago, silent thunder said: That's a rich projection of your own posting style mate! ditto for U2 mate, Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
