Hello everyone!

[Keith108]

Hi Dao Bums,

 

My name is Keith.  I am a Zen Buddhist, with an interest in Neigong. Looking forward to learning here from you all.

 

_/|\_

Keith

[ChiDragon]

Hello welcome,  neigong is internal strength.

[Keith108]

1 hour ago, ChiDragon said:

Hello welcome,  neigong is internal strength.

Thanks! My direction is spiritual, so that's what I am looking for. 

[ChiDragon]

So, I see! You are look for internal mental strength other than physical.

[snowymountains]

On 28/01/2024 at 10:48 PM, Keith108 said:

Thanks! My direction is spiritual, so that's what I am looking for. 

 

Welcome, one thing you'll notice is different from Zen is that it's not as straightforward to validate if a teacher is legit, it's not like there's a place where you can call/email and ask if a teacher received Dharma transmission and permission for dokusan.

The literature seems a bit all over the place too, and oral transmission is a core part of it, plus there's no equivalent of terebess having everything in pdf format, there's no Thay to produce a library of knowledge from scratch in modern English nor is there a Bhikkhu Boddhi to write high quality volumes with translations and commentary.

There's also a bit of Dragonball Z vibes, that may make someone coming from Zen chuckle 😁.

 

Personally I'm after learning Qigong, so that I don't work for the same goal using two systems at the same time.

I view it as a mix of preemptive physiotherapy and what people call energy work sounds similar the goals of Reichian somatic psychotherapy.

So overall it sounds to me like Qigong is a good habit to develop for health and longevity, plus it complements sitting meditation nicely.

 

I'd imagine there's something to the more esoteric stuff too, though I'd assume vetting a teacher may be even more tenuous and also there's the question of how one would combine two paths that have the same goal, which is possible of course but will be extra work.

 

I'm a beginner too, learning Qigong, the only advise I can give is take your time to do your vetting on teachers and any teaching material you purchase.

Edited January 31 by snowymountains

[Keith108]

On 1/31/2024 at 1:57 AM, snowymountains said:

 

Welcome, one thing you'll notice is different from Zen is that it's not as straightforward to validate if a teacher is legit, it's not like there's a place where you can call/email and ask if a teacher received Dharma transmission and permission for dokusan.

The literature seems a bit all over the place too, and oral transmission is a core part of it, plus there's no equivalent of terebess having everything in pdf format, there's no Thay to produce a library of knowledge from scratch in modern English nor is there a Bhikkhu Boddhi to write high quality volumes with translations and commentary.

There's also a bit of Dragonball Z vibes, that may make someone coming from Zen chuckle 😁.

 

Personally I'm after learning Qigong, so that I don't work for the same goal using two systems at the same time.

I view it as a mix of preemptive physiotherapy and what people call energy work sounds similar the goals of Reichian somatic psychotherapy.

So overall it sounds to me like Qigong is a good habit to develop for health and longevity, plus it complements sitting meditation nicely.

 

I'd imagine there's something to the more esoteric stuff too, though I'd assume vetting a teacher may be even more tenuous and also there's the question of how one would combine two paths that have the same goal, which is possible of course but will be extra work.

 

I'm a beginner too, learning Qigong, the only advise I can give is take your time to do your vetting on teachers and any teaching material you purchase.

Thanks for the detailed welcome! For the time being, I am just reading and doing some easy to learn body/breath work (Ba Duan Jin). It complements my meditation and prostration practice very well. 
 

It’s pretty clear that this isn’t a place to discuss Buddhism and Zen. I dipped my toe into a thread, but it’s very clear that even a basic understanding of Buddhist practice isn’t there. And, that’s not the direction of this forum anyway. As I said above, i hope to be able to pick up some helpful qigong information while i am here.
 

_/|\_

[Cobie]

5 hours ago, Keith108 said:

… 

It’s pretty clear that this isn’t a place to discuss Buddhism and Zen. I dipped my toe into a thread, but it’s very clear that even a basic understanding of Buddhist practice isn’t there. And, that’s not the direction of this forum anyway. 

I don’t think Daoism can be separated like that from Chinese Buddhism, as they have mutually influenced each other (and Zen has it’s roots in Chinese Buddhism).
 

Also, did you look into the Buddhist Discussion subforum?

And did you have a look at the posts of e.g. @Mark Foote , @steve @stirling, I think they are experts in this.

 

 

Edited February 1 by Cobie

[ChiDragon]

5 hours ago, Keith108 said:

i hope to be able to pick up some helpful qigong information while i am here.

 

More info:
https://www.thedaobums.com/forum/635-chidragon/

Edited February 1 by ChiDragon

[snowymountains]

16 hours ago, Keith108 said:

Thanks for the detailed welcome! For the time being, I am just reading and doing some easy to learn body/breath work (Ba Duan Jin). It complements my meditation and prostration practice very well. 
 

It’s pretty clear that this isn’t a place to discuss Buddhism and Zen. I dipped my toe into a thread, but it’s very clear that even a basic understanding of Buddhist practice isn’t there. And, that’s not the direction of this forum anyway. As I said above, i hope to be able to pick up some helpful qigong information while i am here.
 

_/|\_

 

Imo you're doing the right thing, similarly I'm integrating some simple Qigong exercises into my daily practice and at some point I'll do more detailed courses.

 

FYI a monk from Plum Village has a YT channel dedicated to Qigong.

[Keith108]

15 hours ago, Cobie said:

I don’t think Daoism can be separated like that from Chinese Buddhism, as they have mutually influenced each other (and Zen has it’s roots in Chinese Buddhism).
 

Also, did you look into the Buddhist Discussion subforum?

And did you have a look at the posts of e.g. @Mark Foote , @steve @stirling, I think they are experts in this.

 

 

 

Appreciate the input, Cobie!

 

While they have certainly influenced each other culturally, they have very different directions. Apples and oranges really. 

 

I hope don't come across too arrogantly. I don't mean any offense to anyone.  I have looked through the Buddhist threads, but to put it kindly, there's a lot of chaff.  And Zen just doesn't lend itself well to online discussion forums anyway. It's an experiential practice, not a philosophical one.  

 

Finally, just for the record, I am no dabbler in Zen. It is the central pole in my life, around which everything else revolves. I find qigong fits in very nicely with my practice. And so far, this forum looks to have a lot of good people, and is well moderated. 

 

_/|\_

[Keith108]

4 hours ago, snowymountains said:

 

Imo you're doing the right thing, similarly I'm integrating some simple Qigong exercises into my daily practice and at some point I'll do more detailed courses.

 

FYI a monk from Plum Village has a YT channel dedicated to Qigong.

Thanks SM...yes, it's really helping my sitting in general. Just finished a seven day retreat, and it was a big challenge physically. I can go 2 or 3 days no problem, but this one really hurt. It was a good wakeup call.

 

I have seen the Plum village monk. I learned the basic hand massages from his video's. For Ba Daun Jin, there is a guy named Peter Chen, from Australia. I found his the best and clearest, as far as youtube goes: Ba Duan Jin Playlist  

 

And, before anyone @'s me, I do recognize being taught these things in the physical presence of a good teacher is best. My body is responding as it should, so I am definitely on the right track, but maybe down the road, I will seek out a teacher. 

[Keith108]

15 hours ago, ChiDragon said:

 

More info:
https://www.thedaobums.com/forum/635-chidragon/

Wow, thanks for that! 

 

One thing I found very interesting is the idea that the breath is harder to master than the mind. I have found it to be very much the opposite! I only belly breath though (through the nose, expanding the huiyin on the inhale, gently lifting on the exhale), so maybe the Daoist style reverse breathing is harder.

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

16 minutes ago, Keith108 said:

And, before anyone @'s me, I do recognize being taught these things in the physical presence of a good teacher is best. My body is responding as it should, so I am definitely on the right track, but maybe down the road, I will seek out a teacher. 

Where are you based? My qigong teacher is in New Paltz, a few hours drive from New York. He also teaches online.

 

You will like him because he’s also into Zen Buddhism.

[Keith108]

1 minute ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

Where are you based? My qigong teacher is in New Paltz, a few hours drive from New York. He also teaches online.

 

You will like him because he’s also into Zen Buddhism.

Ah, interesting! New Paltz is an interesting area. I live in CT, and that's too far to go regularly. But, maybe for some beginning instruction and an occasional check up. 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

39 minutes ago, Keith108 said:

Ah, interesting! New Paltz is an interesting area. I live in CT, and that's too far to go regularly. But, maybe for some beginning instruction and an occasional check up. 

Thats perfect! His name is Sifu Terry, maybe you can check out one day of this workshop he’s hosting next week. Friday would be best for you to go since it’s the beginner stuff:
 

https://terencedunn.substack.com/p/flying-phoenix-qigong-workshops-schedule
 

If you end up going, tell him you heard about it from Jonathon.

[Keith108]

7 minutes ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

Thats perfect! His name is Sifu Terry, maybe you can check out one day of this workshop he’s hosting next week. Friday would be best for you to go since it’s the beginner stuff:
 

https://terencedunn.substack.com/p/flying-phoenix-qigong-workshops-schedule
 

If you end up going, tell him you heard about it from Jonathon.

Thanks again, Jonathon! In the last two weeks, I was on retreat, then attending a conference in Phoenix, so I think my family would kill me if took off somewhere else again. 

 

It says on his website and facebook page that he is located in CA. Is it just not updated, or is there another Terry Dunn teaching qigong?

 

_/|\_

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

24 minutes ago, Keith108 said:

It says on his website and facebook page that he is located in CA. Is it just not updated, or is there another Terry Dunn teaching qigong?

 

_/|\_

It’s not updated. He was actually based in CT until a few months ago!

[snowymountains]

2 hours ago, Keith108 said:

Thanks SM...yes, it's really helping my sitting in general. Just finished a seven day retreat, and it was a big challenge physically. I can go 2 or 3 days no problem, but this one really hurt. It was a good wakeup call.

 

I have seen the Plum village monk. I learned the basic hand massages from his video's. For Ba Daun Jin, there is a guy named Peter Chen, from Australia. I found his the best and clearest, as far as youtube goes: Ba Duan Jin Playlist  

 

And, before anyone @'s me, I do recognize being taught these things in the physical presence of a good teacher is best. My body is responding as it should, so I am definitely on the right track, but maybe down the road, I will seek out a teacher. 

 

/jealous 🙂, for me unfortunately it's 3 day retreats tops, for more, I'll have to wait till the kids have grown. 7 days does sound like a challenge esp. for the back.

 

Thanks for the Ba Daun Jin vids ! if you're into books, this book comes with a freebie mini course (feel free to ignore the title, the book is about QiGong, not Zen), it aims at building a 15 mins daily qigong routine, which in my case is perfect, a longer one would take time off meditation.

[Keith108]

22 minutes ago, snowymountains said:

 

/jealous 🙂, for me unfortunately it's 3 day retreats tops, for more, I'll have to wait till the kids have grown. 7 days does sound like a challenge esp. for the back.

 

Thanks for the Ba Daun Jin vids ! if you're into books, this book comes with a freebie mini course (feel free to ignore the title, the book is about QiGong, not Zen), it aims at building a 15 mins daily qigong routine, which in my case is perfect, a longer one would take time off meditation.

 

 

I was very much in the same boat, regarding retreat length. My son is older now, and practices with me, so I have the life situation to be able to do it. And yes, it was the back. We start the day off at 4:30 am with 108 bows (prostrations), and I overdid it on the first day, so it was life on the struggle bus from then on. Some grist for the mill, I suppose. 

 

The book looks interesting. Might drop it in the kindle. 

 

 

[snowymountains]

1 hour ago, Keith108 said:

 

 

I was very much in the same boat, regarding retreat length. My son is older now, and practices with me, so I have the life situation to be able to do it. And yes, it was the back. We start the day off at 4:30 am with 108 bows (prostrations), and I overdid it on the first day, so it was life on the struggle bus from then on. Some grist for the mill, I suppose. 

 

The book looks interesting. Might drop it in the kindle. 

 

 

 

In retreats I sit on a chair, not seiza, to avoid adding stress to my back ( have also made the same mistake ). Seiza is ok for an evening but in retreats it adds up 😐

 

Take good care of your back and wishes for a speedy recovery 🙏