alchemy How does it work?

[Maddie]

16 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

what a sweet lady

 

The dude has the audacity to ask me for an apology after personally insulting me. I had a message for him LOL.

Edited February 2 by Maddie

[snowymountains]

11 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

i try not to interprete anymore, interpretation is useless mindtalk, just be

 

But nobody is denying an experience you had, that's something entirely subjective and yours.

 

It's the interpretation of the experiences that is in question, things like oh this light during Samatha must be enlightenment, tummo moving energy up leads to enlightenment, the astral realm is real etc 

 

I'm not attributing the above statements to you, but these are the points that one can, and imo should, contest in an open discussion.

 

Note that I'm not saying whether someone can see lights in Samatha etc, of course they can.

The interpretation is almost always disjoint to the experience ( unless eg the experience is about taking to parts of our IFS ) and is meant to explain it (not).

 

 

[Maddie]

2 minutes ago, snowymountains said:

 

But nobody is denying an experience you had, that's something entirely subjective and yours.

 

It's the interpretation of the experiences that is in question, things like oh this light during Samatha must be enlightenment, tummo moving energy up leads to enlightenment, the astral realm is real etc 

 

I'm not attributing the above statements to you, but these are the points that one can, and imo should, contest in an open discussion.

 

Note that I'm not saying whether someone can see lights in Samatha etc, of course they can.

The interpretation is almost always disjoint to the experience ( unless eg the experience is about taking to parts of our IFS ) and is meant to explain it (not).

 

 

 

I think the Pali texts make it quite clear that nimmita is not enlightenment but rather the way a concentrated mind interprets itself.

[Trunk]

**** admin statement ****

 

I banned "Sleepy Bluejay" because he's a ####ing ##### ## ####!!!!

 

- Trunk

 

************************

[snowymountains]

Just now, Maddie said:

 

I think the Pali texts make it quite clear that nimmita is not enlightenment but rather the way a concentrated mind interprets itself.

 

Pali is clear on that, it's other traditions that interpreted it as enlightenment, or a sign from God, being chosen by the light etc.

 

In general, the Pali Canon ( our best understanding of what the Buddha taught), especially for it's time, was trying to be as scientific as possible about it, in many ways. I'm even reconsidering changing my view on whether it describes earthquakes in a whacky way or not.

[Elysium]

Gotta say, as someone who can't find a teacher right at the moment, I am kinda worried.

 

Last thing I want to end up is like OP. Seems like all that energy messed with his head.

 

Or he was messed up to begin with.

 

Is this the fate of all solo practitioners?

[Maddie]

1 minute ago, snowymountains said:

 I'm even reconsidering changing my view on whether it describes earthquakes in a whacky way or not.

 

Yeah not everything in the Pali Canon is scientifically accurate but it's probably the closest there is to what the Buddha actually taught.

[Maddie]

2 minutes ago, Elysium said:

Gotta say, as someone who can't find a teacher right at the moment, I am kinda worried.

 

Last thing I want to end up is like OP. Seems like all that energy messed with his head.

 

Or he was messed up to begin with.

 

Is this the fate of all solo practitioners?

 

I guess it is kind of a chicken or the egg question especially when we don't know the person. Like was he having mental health issues to begin with or did trying to be a self-proclaimed guru make him lose his marbles? Or did he have mental health issues become a self-proclaimed guru and it exacerbated the problem?

 

I think he would definitely be a cautionary example about doing things on your own.

Edited February 2 by Maddie

[thelerner]

1 hour ago, Keith108 said:

Some wise person is purported to have said:

 

Before you speak, let your words pass through three gates: Is it true? Is it necessary? Is it kind?

Round and round...

_/|\_

Didn't they add a fourth gate in modern times.. True? Necessary?? Kind??? Approved by my lawyer ????

 

 

[Elysium]

3 minutes ago, Maddie said:

I think he would definitely be a cautionary example about doing things on your own.

Sure is, between this guy, the one that wants to tank a nuke and the one that called himself master and then called everyone demonic.

 

I won't drag the thread no more but I am glad OP is gone.

[snowymountains]

13 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

Yeah not everything in the Pali Canon is scientifically accurate but it's probably the closest there is to what the Buddha actually taught.

 

Tbh I haven't read all the Pali, it occupies a whole shelve in my library. Those parts I've looked combined with associated commentary and associated teaching make sense.

One could argue of course that the teaching by monks today is calibrated to match today's knowledge, I've pushed my teacher quite hard on some parts and his responses were quite satisfactory.

Clearly it's a text from thousands of years ago, it's not perfect but eg the abhidhamma is close to today's cognitive psychology, this is a strong indication that the Buddha was being very methodical and scientific, especially for his era.

Edited February 2 by snowymountains

[Maddie]

1 minute ago, Elysium said:

Sure is, between this guy, the one that wants to tank a nuke and the one that called himself master and then called everyone demonic.

 

I won't drag the thread no more but I am glad OP is gone.

 

I think I can kind of define the problem. Forums like this attract all types including the kind of people who want super powers. Wanting superpowers is an act of ego and ego causes delusion. So with the superpower people you're going to get a lot of deluded and highly egotistical types of people.

[thelerner]

7 minutes ago, Elysium said:

Gotta say, as someone who can't find a teacher right at the moment, I am kinda worried.

 

Last thing I want to end up is like OP. Seems like all that energy messed with his head.

 

Or he was messed up to begin with.

 

Is this the fate of all solo practitioners?

I think listening to the wise/dharma lectures are as necessary to the path as meditation, particularly for 'energetic arts'.  Technology has blessed us with podcasts of many wise people from a whole bunch of traditions.  We need to find ones that connect with us, not because they agree with what we already think, but challenge us to be better people.   Imo preferably from an established tradition. 

 

Left to our devices we can wander into selfishness and extremes.  Particularly if we don't have friends who tell us when we're full of shit. 

 

 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

14 minutes ago, Elysium said:

Is this the fate of all solo practitioners?

Yes. Find a teacher.

[Keith108]

1 hour ago, Maddie said:

 

I agree, although I never did belittle him or his belief. He seems to have some issues and was just spinning it that way. I agree with the three gates for sure! :-)

You absolutely did not, Maddie. I confused some of the posts. Ah well, looks like the situation was resolved. 

 

_/|\_

[snowymountains]

25 minutes ago, Trunk said:

**** admin statement ****

 

I banned "Sleepy Bluejay" because he's a ####ing ##### ## ####!!!!

 

- Trunk

 

************************

 

Delete those posts with the slurs too pls 🙂, the slurs on gender identity are illegal in a fairly large part of the European continent actually.

[blue eyed snake]

29 minutes ago, snowymountains said:

 

But nobody is denying an experience you had, that's something entirely subjective and yours.

 

am also uninterested in the judgment from other people regarding what I experience, I'd rather not speak about in fact. 

 

29 minutes ago, snowymountains said:

 

It's the interpretation of the experiences that is in question, things like oh this light during Samatha must be enlightenment, tummo moving energy up leads to enlightenment, the astral realm is real etc 

 

bu what is the use of that? what does it matter whether you call it this or that, some years later you will see you interpreted it wrongly anyway, 

 

29 minutes ago, snowymountains said:

 

I'm not attributing the above statements to you, but these are the points that one can, and imo should, contest in an open discussion.

 

we seem to have different ideas on that

 

29 minutes ago, snowymountains said:

 

Note that I'm not saying whether someone can see lights in Samatha etc, of course they can.

The interpretation is almost always disjoint to the experience ( unless eg the experience is about taking to parts of our IFS ) and is meant to explain it (not).

 

 

 

[blue eyed snake]

29 minutes ago, Trunk said:

**** admin statement ****

 

I banned "Sleepy Bluejay" because he's a ####ing ##### ## ####!!!!

 

- Trunk

 

************************

 

Now that's a perfectly neutral intervention, well done and thank you _/|\_

[Maddie]

3 minutes ago, Keith108 said:

You absolutely did not, Maddie. I confused some of the posts. Ah well, looks like the situation was resolved. 

 

_/|\_

 

Sorry today was the day that you joined. I've been on this forum for a really long time and I've never had anything like that happen to me until today.

[snowymountains]

6 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

am also uninterested in the judgment from other people regarding what I experience, I'd rather not speak about in fact. 

 

 

bu what is the use of that? what does it matter whether you call it this or that, some years later you will see you interpreted it wrongly anyway, 

 

 

we seem to have different ideas on that

 

 

 

That's fair I also keep most of my meditative experiences out of public forums.

The point though wasn't to disclose your experiences, the point was that the experiences themselves are yours and incontestable.

 

The use is "right view", which by definition needs to be objective.

 

It's ok to have different ideas on what to speak about, that's a personal choice.

Edited February 2 by snowymountains

[blue eyed snake]

23 minutes ago, Elysium said:

Gotta say, as someone who can't find a teacher right at the moment, I am kinda worried.

 

Last thing I want to end up is like OP. Seems like all that energy messed with his head.

 

Or he was messed up to begin with.

 

Is this the fate of all solo practitioners?

 

we'll never know about the original poster but his self cobbled practice was the nicest setup to get fucked up  with too much energy going up and now way to get it down.

 

there are several online teachers that have good reputation, you can find some threads here on the forums. They teach safe practice, building foundation first and, as I understood it,  you can contact them ( or probably their senior students ) when problems arise

[Maddie]

5 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

we'll never know about the original poster but his self cobbled practice was the nicest setup to get fucked up  with too much energy going up and now way to get it down.

 

There were a lot of people like this when I was an acupuncture School. In addition to acting erratic like that they also had the crazy eyes. 👀

[snowymountains]

24 minutes ago, Elysium said:

Sure is, between this guy, the one that wants to tank a nuke and the one that called himself master and then called everyone demonic.

 

I won't drag the thread no more but I am glad OP is gone.

 

The other guy with the mp3 and it's alleged demons is one of the two guys that follow the OP and their accounts were created with a day's difference.

 

I don't see demons here tbh but I'll refrain from speculation.

[Keith108]

1 hour ago, snowymountains said:

 

As counterpoint though, factual disagreement imo is a good thing.

 

Of course anyone can believe what they want and ,as long as it's civil, are at liberty to say it but also others are at liberty to point it's entirely unfounded. Else, we'd still be trying to use spells on bacteria.

 

Another wise man openly spoke of the perils of Gurus and their promises, cracked some good jokes along the way and a lot of people benefited from him doing this.

 

Choosing between two wise men is an impossible task and at the end, one should do what they believe to be right.

 

I guess it's the direction of the disagreement that is important to me. Why am I disagreeing? It's important to reflect on why we are doing things.

 

The only reason to voice a disagreement is if the point being countered is hurtful to the person or another person. I don't agree with questioning what people believe, no matter how unbelievable it may seem. Why? Because I don't know.

 

A case: 

 

Dizang asked Fayan, “Where are you going?”

Fayan said, “I am wandering aimlessly.”

“What do you think of wandering?”

“I don’t know.”

“Not knowing is most intimate.”

Fayan was suddenly awakened.

 

Mitchell's Translation of Verse 71 of the DDJ begins with:

 

Not-knowing is true knowledge.
Presuming to know is a disease.
 

Reading this thread about alchemy does test my limits of what seems possible. But, believing or not believing are both beliefs. Not knowing is truly most intimate. 

 

_/|\_

[Maddie]

15 minutes ago, snowymountains said:

 

The other guy with the mp3 and it's alleged demons is one of the two guys that follow the OP and their accounts were created with a day's difference.

 

I don't see demons here tbh but I'll refrain from speculation.

 

We did seem to get a bunch of self-proclaimed unquestionable guru's in here lately didn't we? all around the same time?