I started meditating to relax and I ended up sobbing with rage - am I stange?

[Nungali]

6 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

lets say i live in barbie land where nothing bad ever happened to me, hence no bad emotions, yet i have an inborn stagnating liver - then i will still have outbursts when the liver overflows even though there was no original trauma

 

But these people dont live in barbie land  , so why is that any sort of comparison ?  I mean , if they did , you might have a point , but they dont , so I dont see your one .

 

a real rage is caused by a direct external cause. an outburst of qi has none except an innate liver defect. E.g Tourrets syndrome

 

But they are talking about suppressed rage , which is real but not direct,  nor caused at that moment , nor  easily identifiable as external , you 'de-assumed' all of that .

 

not quite. the physiological qi is insulated from the psychological qi, otherwise the body would not be able to function being disrupted by emotions all the time

 

only of something wrong with the liver though    

 

she clutched her liver, others clutch pearls, yet others get red in the face, some suffer a stroke etc. The somatic response varies. Think this way: two apparently similar persons are exposed to a similar emotional stimuli. Why are their reactions different?

 

Seriously ?    The answer is in orange .

 

 

 

 

[Cobie]

23 hours ago, Apech said:

Discuss [am I strange?]

 

No not strange at all. Meditation did not create the rage; it was always there but kept unaware of by keeping busy. It’s hard to face the shit but who wants to stay on the run the rest of their life? 

 

 

Edited February 9 by Cobie

[Apech]

1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

 

I generally avoid commenting on people's physical appearance, but I'll make an exception in this case and come right out with it: I've always thought of Apech as a tall glass of water.

 

But fruity ...

 

[doc benway]

I've always thought of Apech as a stange glass of water, even before I knew what the word meant...

 

 

[Cobie]

@Apech Is that your Jing in the glass? Better be careful no one steals it! 

 

Edited February 9 by Cobie

[Apech]

29 minutes ago, Cobie said:

@Apech Is that your Jing in the glass? Better be careful no one steals it! 

 

Stange brew, kill what’s inside of you.

[Cobie]

19 minutes ago, Apech said:

Stange brew, kill what’s inside of you.

Wow, the 虛心 elixer!  
 

 

Edited February 9 by Cobie

[Mark Foote]

  Quote

I started meditating to relax and I ended up sobbing with rage - am I stange?

He just couldn't stand to be strange, so he chose to be a tall glass of water instead.

Key point:

 

But usually in counting breathing or following breathing, you feel as if you are doing something, you know– you are following breathing, and you are counting breathing. This is, you know, why counting breathing or following breathing practice is, you know, for us it is some preparation– preparatory practice for shikantaza because for most people it is rather difficult to sit, you know, just to sit.

 

(“The Background of Shikantaza”; Shunryu Suzuki, Sunday, February 22, 1970, San Francisco; transcript from shunryusuzuki.com)
 

 

"Meditating to relax" comes under the heading of "doing something", so you'd best cut that out.  You could end up beating the stuffing out of that cushion (and stuffing the bleating into that tissue, key of C).

Seriously, though:  sympathies!  I hope it was cathartic.

 

(or was the topic a quote from someone else, on another thread?--I missed where the topic came from)

 

 

Edited February 9 by Mark Foote

[Apech]

14 minutes ago, Cobie said:

Wow, the 虛心 elixer! 

 

I found out today, we’re going wrong.

[Bhathen]

7 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

because its one shingle body of bodily qi behind them. its like a sea tide, when the tide rises it is anger; when the tide ebbs it is sadness. but it is the same seawater, the same qi

lots of ways: exercise, diet, fasting, massage

you know ppl talk about doing qigong all the time but when asked whats the point of doing it -  all you get is a blank stare. and some anger hehe;)

Off-topic

Doing qigong, I was in my best health. I never knew I could be so healthy, everything was in balance, in a snap the pain I never knew disappeared, it was like all the irregularities in my physical body just vanished. Maybe some people haven't experienced a healthier aspect or it takes time or nothing happens, maybe it was not for them,  does not mean qigong is a placebo.

[Bindi]

What’s fundamentally wrong with feeling? Why is having an emotion referred to negatively as clinging, or rebranded as sluggish qi? Emotion is a *legitimate tool to help us make appropriate decisions. The beauty of they system goes wrong IMO because of stored emotions and the isolation of our emotions from our logical thought processes, but this common error can be fixed, and the first step is releasing stored ie. unexpressed emotions. But how to do that? If you’re trying to force any sort of prejudice on an emotion, that you don’t want to cling, that it can just be observed, that you don’t want to become lost in emotion, that it’s not a legitimate emotion, then you’re limiting the simplicity of emotions. A feeling is felt, end of story. Stored emotions have to be felt, they were created in the language of feeling, and they have to be expressed in the language of feeling, there is no alternative. 

Granted it’s a rocky road, and people thrown into the deep end are being damaged, but then the method for clearing stored emotions needs to be blamed as inappropriate. I propose that a primary purpose of dreams is to clear stored emotions as a self-cleaning self-fixing system, much like our bodies self-fix a wound. I contend that we are self-fixing organisms on both the physical and psychological  level, and dreams are the expression of psychological fixing. In a dream commonly there is a feeling. This is the purpose of the dream, dredging up an irritant in the psyche in order to remove it, and the way to remove it is to fully feel it within the dreams boundaries. This is also the safety mechanism of the self-fixing system, our psyche doesn’t want to destroy itself, it wants to fix itself. Going at it and expressing feelings in an unboundaried way is an unbalanced start that is more than likely to end in unboundaried and unbalanced ways, maybe this is why so many restrictions are put on emotions, they can destroy an individual who has lost contact with their own internal cleaning system. 
 

Dreams contain more than that single level of information, but decoding the other levels is harder, and feeling the feeling is enough information on the first run. 
 

* One example of the use of emotions for making good decisions that has been known for decades:

 

Would it really be in our best interests to detach from this feeling and keep heading merrily in the direction of the snake? 

Edited February 10 by Bindi

[doc benway]

Sitting in open presence a gut-wrenching sense of pain, hopelessness, and helplessness comes out of nowhere. With it comes a sense of being victim and perpetrator of every human and animal holocaust in our sordid and illustrious history. It crushed me into a literal sobbing, wailing rage. Not sure this has anything to do with my stange but it was sure something. And equally profound and transformative experiences of pervasive spaciousness, immortality and bliss - far more hazardous to a practitioner, IME.

 

Lots of good and bad experiences have come up in meditation over time. I've received similar advice from my Daoist and Bön masters on the subject. Namely, these are transient, natural, and spontaneous experiences of meditation, energetic expressions of the base. They are more an indication of an obstacle to realization being released than something being achieved. They can be a milestone of progress as well as a teaser or lighthouse to inform and guide our practice. If we get too attached or resistant to the experiences they can be a powerful obstacle.  Best to let them, and our reactivity, come and go without too much engagement or sense of significance. 

 

[Nungali]

3 hours ago, Apech said:

 

But fruity ...

 

 

... and full of bubbles  ? 

[Cobie]

16 hours ago, Apech said:

... we’re going wrong.

What is the right way?
 

 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

15 hours ago, Bhathen said:

Off-topic

Doing qigong, I was in my best health. I never knew I could be so healthy, everything was in balance, in a snap the pain I never knew disappeared, it was like all the irregularities in my physical body just vanished. Maybe some people haven't experienced a healthier aspect or it takes time or nothing happens, maybe it was not for them,  does not mean qigong is a placebo.

Don’t bother with what he posts, most of it is nonsense. 

[Cobie]

On 09/02/2024 at 7:00 AM, Taoist Texts said:

… liver stagnation … an inborn energetic defect in the liver …

Why so many people with an “inborn” defect? 
 

 

Edited February 10 by Cobie

[Cobie]

On 10/02/2024 at 2:44 AM, Bindi said:

… feelings …

Around the time of Laozi the character for liver (肝 gān) was also used as a euphemism for inner feelings (Kroll, page 127),

thus ‘liver stagnation’ can refer to an emotional blockage. 

 

Edited February 11 by Cobie

[Master Logray]

 

11 minutes ago, Cobie said:

Around the time of Laozi the character for liver (肝 gān) was used as a “euphemism for inner feelings” (Kroll pg127), and ‘liver stagnation’ thus can refer to an emotional blockage.

 

FYI, 

肝鬱（Stagnation of liver qi），指的是「肝氣鬱結」或「肝鬱氣滯」。 「肝」在中醫而言，主要的功能有調節氣機、謀慮、藏血與調血，並不是西方醫學中的「肝臟」。 「肝氣鬱結」，指的就是肝的調節氣機功能失常，氣機不暢所產生的問題，其發生與情緒、壓力關係密切。

長庚醫訊 長庚紀念醫院

長庚醫療財團法人全球資訊網

https://www.cgmh.org.tw › cgmn › category

 

 

The remedies that should be available in the west include Citrus fruits and Rose tea.   It is very popular to take rose tea for better sleep for ladies.

 

 

 

 

[Apech]

1 hour ago, Cobie said:

What is the right way?
 

 

its a quote from a song 

[Taoist Texts]

17 hours ago, Bhathen said:

Doing qigong, I was in my best health. I never knew I could be so healthy, everything was in balance, in a snap the pain I never knew disappeared, it was like all the irregularities in my physical body just vanished. Maybe some people haven't experienced a healthier aspect or it takes time or nothing happens, maybe it was not for them,  does not mean qigong is a placebo.

was? was that before or after this

On 9/11/2023 at 7:55 PM, Bhathen said:

Lately I have been angry to an extreme extent. Meditation or breathing exercises are just not helping me. 

Been going through a lot of personal issues and health had been affected. Am not sure if the extreme nature of the anger is due to nerve issues

51 minutes ago, Cobie said:

Why so many people with an “inborn” defect? 

the idealistic explanation is because these are the later times of kali-yuga. the materialistic one is because of the hydrocarbs based diet. either way les jeux sont faits; rien ne va plus 

Edited February 10 by Taoist Texts

[Cobie]

@Bindi 

 

as far as I understood Master Logray i.a. said, “Liver Qi stagnation … is closely related to emotions and stress.” 
https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/55571-i-started-meditating-to-relax-and-i-ended-up-sobbing-with-rage-am-i-stange/?do=findComment&comment=1025424

 

Also Nintendao, “… (肝 gān) is used like "guts" even today. To have a gut feeling, or make a gutsy move …”

https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/55571-i-started-meditating-to-relax-and-i-ended-up-sobbing-with-rage-am-i-stange/?do=findComment&comment=1025440 

 

 

Edited February 10 by Cobie

[Nintendao]

16 hours ago, Bhathen said:

23 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

because its one shingle body of bodily qi behind them. its like a sea tide, when the tide rises it is anger; when the tide ebbs it is sadness. but it is the same seawater, the same qi

lots of ways: exercise, diet, fasting, massage

you know ppl talk about doing qigong all the time but when asked whats the point of doing it -  all you get is a blank stare. and some anger hehe;)

Off-topic

Doing qigong, I was in my best health. I never knew I could be so healthy, everything was in balance, in a snap the pain I never knew disappeared, it was like all the irregularities in my physical body just vanished. Maybe some people haven't experienced a healthier aspect or it takes time or nothing happens, maybe it was not for them,  does not mean qigong is a placebo.

 

Most qigong is going to be the perfect surrogate for climbing trees. Humans' bodies function great when maneuvering around in branches to get the fruit, nuts, and eggs. Also living in caves or underwater are good, too. The gym style exercises of today don't offer the same level of twists and stretches in all directions. Unless maybe a jungle gym. Can you meet the challenge of climbing trees? There was a time when every kid on the block could do it. Doesn't matter how out of shape you are just start at the bottom and try again every day you will make it one centimeter at a time. 

 

This might just sound like a novel take on the standard "qigong make you healthy, which usually also feels happy," but there is something deeper if you ask me. In the larger-frame spiritual life cycle, the Earth body is a stage comparable to a larva. It develops tensegrity in order to properly interact on an energetic level. The more it can do this, the better "wings" will work in the next stage.

[Cobie]

4 minutes ago, Nintendao said:

… tensegrity …

Oh no, we’re back at Castaneda? 
 

 

[Apech]

2 minutes ago, Cobie said:

Oh no, we’re back at Castaneda? 
 

 

good

[Cobie]

.

Edited February 22 by Cobie