Anger and fear of height gone, what is going on?

[Elysium]

Hi all, though I feel like a psychologist would be better to ask this, going to ask here anyways.

 

In december of last year, while I was reading Corpus Hermeticum, in all of a sudden I felt that all resentment and hatred I felt towards anything and mostly myself just leaking out of me. Thats how I could define this moment. Something leaking out of me, my heart & chest feeling a kind of healing pain, and as if a truck got lifted off my shoulders after all said and done.

 

I was only doing a half-assed attempt in soul mirrors by Initiation Into Hermetics, also the void of mind excersise from same book at the time. I haven't put any meaningful effort into it.

 

Back to three days ago, I have noticed my fear of heights which stemmed from me jumping from the second floor on a single leg like a dumbass, is highly diminshed if not gone.

 

Currently I have only added 5 mins of Zhan Zhuang into what I practice so I am pretty sure it isn't related.

 

The question is, since I am not doing much, why did this two persistent treats that I have had more than a decade just vanished overnight? Any ideas?

[snowymountains]

What you describe sounds like what is called kensho in the Zen tradition.

 

These are sudden/spontaneous experiences which may happen while reading texts or hearing a recitation, or just watching something.

 

In Zen you'd discuss this with your Roshi and they'd help you embody the experience ( though it sounds fairly embodied already) and what are the right next steps for you ( spiritually that is ).

It's a spiritual progression signpost if you like, the Roshi is further down the road and can give you the "map" of next steps.

 

I don't know these traditions which you mention at all, so can't comment in terms of their terminology and how it works there. If you have a teacher discuss it with them.

 

Other than a signpost in a spiritual path, tbh I don't think anyone else can explain it for you.

 

If you visit a therapist you'll set goals, therapeutic goals that is.

Eg is the experience stressing you? ( sounds like no ), does the experience show any potential signs of a mental disorder, eg psychosis? ( sounds like no ).

So what would the therapeutic goals be related to this experience? Without therapeutic goals there's no therapy.

 

Of course you're free to discuss it with a therapist if you want to, nothing wrong with that. If you want to, you can do the following: set as a goal "self improvement" and discuss this experience along other things.

Therapy is extremely effective at what it does, but here what would the goal be?

Of course you as well may visit a therapist and discuss with them if it makes sense to book sessions for this.

 

A friend used to say, the problem with this job (he's a therapist) is, those who do need therapy don't do it and instead take shortcuts, while those who don't need it, come to do therapy 😁

( Ok he was exaggerating but sometimes it's true )

 

I mention his joke because it's a very different thing for someone eg to suppress emotions with Samatha meditation, subconsciously avoiding therapy, and a different thing to have a spiritual experience, which tbh also sounds exclusively positive and psychosis-free.

Does the later need therapy?

 

 

Edited February 10 by snowymountains

[ChiDragon]

6 hours ago, Elysium said:

 

The question is, since I am not doing much, why did this two persistent treats that I have had more than a decade just vanished overnight? Any ideas?

You have become enlightened. I have the same experience as you have after studying the Tao Te Jing.

[Elysium]

5 hours ago, snowymountains said:

What you describe sounds like what is called kensho in the Zen tradition.

 

These are sudden/spontaneous experiences which may happen while reading texts or hearing a recitation, or just watching something

I was suspecting it was related to what I was reading. How bizarre, it sounds like a shortcut, does it not? Maybe I should broaden my world view. I certainly did not think this was possible.

 

5 hours ago, snowymountains said:

Eg is the experience stressing you? ( sounds like no ), does the experience show any potential signs of a mental disorder, eg psychosis? ( sounds like no ).

I would say I am somewhat happy without any external influence in my life, ever after these events. You are right, answer is a hard no.

 

6 hours ago, snowymountains said:

A friend used to say, the problem with this job (he's a therapist) is, those who do need therapy don't do it and instead take shortcuts, while those who don't need it, come to do therapy 😁

( Ok he was exaggerating but sometimes it's true )

 

I mention his joke because it's a very different thing for someone eg to suppress emotions with Samatha meditation, subconsciously avoiding therapy, and a different thing to have a spiritual experience, which tbh also sounds exclusively positive and psychosis-free.

Does the later need therapy?

 

 

Its a fair question. There are many things I should go see a therapist for but I suppose these two wouldn't be main topics anymore.

 

 

48 minutes ago, ChiDragon said:

You have become enlightened. I have the same experience as you have after studying the Tao Te Jing

Okay I know I just said that I shouldn't be so narrow minded but me? Enlightened? If this is enlightenment I suppose everyone already is.

[silent thunder]

Sudden awakenings/realizations can seem accidental to the local/personality awareness.

 

Though I have found that once engaged in the path... all actions become cumulative in 'the work' ^{even those that seem unrelated} and all arises to make one more 'accident prone'.

 

 

[Master Logray]

19 hours ago, Elysium said:

In december of last year, while I was reading Corpus Hermeticum, in all of a sudden I felt that all resentment and hatred I felt towards anything and mostly myself just leaking out of me. Thats how I could define this moment. Something leaking out of me, my heart & chest feeling a kind of healing pain, and as if a truck got lifted off my shoulders after all said and done.

I was only doing a half-assed attempt in soul mirrors by Initiation Into Hermetics, also the void of mind excersise from same book at the time. I haven't put any meaningful effort into it.

 

 

 

It is a trance/state of mind.   Some call it enlightenment or integration with the source, whether you really go into it or just have a peep on the other side is hard to say.  Cultivators want to prolong this state and developed elaborate systems to achieve it and maintain it, until finally somehow manage its happening.   Normal people or cultivators may achieve it from time to time, always on a temporary basis.   It could happen when you have a peak experience like just discover some new knowledge or solution of a problem, awe by a beautiful scene or receive gratitude from helping others, create a big piece of art...   It is not really possible to replicate its happening.  It would most likely go away when you actively go after it.   Your previous works may have accumulated conditions for its appearance.

 

In Taoist alchemy, the state is used for "harvesting the medicine", furthering the purpose of immortality.   Other religions/spiritualities treat it differently.  Don't be happy that you are "enlightened".   It is not unlike you are suddenly upgraded into first class in a flight.  But it is the third class that you actually belong, not until you are rich enough and willing to pay.   Don't go to see a therapist because of it.  It is totally normal.

 

[snowymountains]

12 hours ago, Elysium said:

I was suspecting it was related to what I was reading. How bizarre, it sounds like a shortcut, does it not? Maybe I should broaden my world view. I certainly did not think this was possible.

 

I would say I am somewhat happy without any external influence in my life, ever after these events. You are right, answer is a hard no.

 

Its a fair question. There are many things I should go see a therapist for but I suppose these two wouldn't be main topics anymore.

 

 

Okay I know I just said that I shouldn't be so narrow minded but me? Enlightened? If this is enlightenment I suppose everyone already is.

 

It's not a shortcut, this may have happened because of eg cumulative meditation past work.

It's more like the effects manifesting suddenly, not that they come for free.

( Mind you, a sudden vs gradual approach is often a matter of dispute between different schools  )

 

By all means go to a therapist to do work with them, in general, therapy is great, you could even bring up this event at some point. It's just that this experience in isolation doesn't sound as a reason for therapy.

 

A kensho is not enlightenment, it's a step in that direction, so it's a progress signpost.

There's a series/progression of kensho people go through as they evolve in their practice.

It's good that you take a grounded approach to it.

Though it certainly is a mark of progress, don't discount it either.

 

In Zen typically folks discuss these experiences only with their Roshi.

Edited February 11 by snowymountains

[Elysium]

3 hours ago, snowymountains said:

A kensho is not enlightenment, it's a step in that direction, so it's a progress signpost.

There's a series/progression of kensho people go through as they evolve in their practice.

It's good that you take a grounded approach to it.

Though it certainly is a mark of progress, don't discount it either

The way I see it, one wrong step, and I may find myself in a problem that I can't untangle. Been reading about dangers of the practice, and it sure seems like you don't know it until its too late. Sure not all mistakes are fatal.

 

The point still stands however, so when I see big claims, I am skeptical of it.

 

Yeah we discussed therapy and I agree with you and other members pointed out that this doesn't require it. But its on back of my mind now and I think it will be a great invesment, alongside finding a proper teacher. Just need this college to get over with.

 

Until then I suppose I will enjoy this blessing, why not right? 

[snowymountains]

Just now, Elysium said:

The way I see it, one wrong step, and I may find myself in a problem that I can't untangle. Been reading about dangers of the practice, and it sure seems like you don't know it until its too late. Sure not all mistakes are fatal.

 

The point still stands however, so when I see big claims, I am skeptical of it.

 

Yeah we discussed therapy and I agree with you and other members pointed out that this doesn't require it. But its on back of my mind now and I think it will be a great invesment, alongside finding a proper teacher. Just need this college to get over with.

 

Until then I suppose I will enjoy this blessing, why not right? 

 

I can't comment on a practice like hermeticism of which I know nothing about, but if you have these concerns, why not choose a safer practice and one you can practice under a teacher?

 

I'd stay away from anything that comes with big claims, the most spiritually progressed people I've met are simple people and they don't claim they throw fireballs. I mean them being "simple" in the best possible sense, the top "badge of honor".

 

Re therapy, it's a very good thing, if you've never done before it will surely pay dividends, just do it for the right reasons, compile a list of the things you want, go to a therapist, then set together the goals of the therapy etc. This "kensho" doesn't sound like a reason for therapy in isolation though🙂.

 

There's no rush btw, it will all be there next year too, finish your degree first and then you look into it.

[Keith108]

On 2/10/2024 at 9:13 AM, Elysium said:

Hi all, though I feel like a psychologist would be better to ask this, going to ask here anyways.

 

In december of last year, while I was reading Corpus Hermeticum, in all of a sudden I felt that all resentment and hatred I felt towards anything and mostly myself just leaking out of me. Thats how I could define this moment. Something leaking out of me, my heart & chest feeling a kind of healing pain, and as if a truck got lifted off my shoulders after all said and done.

 

I was only doing a half-assed attempt in soul mirrors by Initiation Into Hermetics, also the void of mind excersise from same book at the time. I haven't put any meaningful effort into it.

 

Back to three days ago, I have noticed my fear of heights which stemmed from me jumping from the second floor on a single leg like a dumbass, is highly diminshed if not gone.

 

Currently I have only added 5 mins of Zhan Zhuang into what I practice so I am pretty sure it isn't related.

 

The question is, since I am not doing much, why did this two persistent treats that I have had more than a decade just vanished overnight? Any ideas?

 

A nice example of wu wei, I would think. These little openings tend to happen when we least expect them. Enjoy and move on. The worst thing to do, and I am speaking from experience, is to try to recreate them. 

 

_/|\_