Is Buddhism a complete path?

[idiot_stimpy]

4 hours ago, johndoe2012 said:

Buddhism for some seems like a cult 'don't criticize the leader, don't think for yourself' 

 

The endless spamming of non Buddhist threads on how wonderful buddhism is is like watching Christians advocate Christianity? 

 

A Shaolin monk once said:

 

"It doesn't matter what type of practice you're doing, it is the way that whatever it is, be aware of what's going on on the inside."

[old3bob]

3 hours ago, snowymountains said:

 

 

Yes it is very shallow and dogmatic, like all religions and spiritual paths are.

 

On the other hand aren't you the one who advertised"cheap energetic transmissions" for 10 EUR to that guy with a porn addiction instead of going to a therapist? 😂👍

 

Jesus Christ snowymountains!  how much axe do you have left to grind, its getting old, btw not many here looking to get shrunk by a arm chair shrink!

[blue eyed snake]

12 hours ago, snowymountains said:

 

Sure, others views though can't always be what you want to hear.

 

Nor is your self-reflection applicable to others, it's a projection you do and for you to see why you do it.

 

 

 

 

 

I rest my case

[snowymountains]

50 minutes ago, old3bob said:

 

Jesus Christ snowymountains!  how much axe do you have left to grind, its getting old, btw not many here looking to get shrunk by a arm chair shrink!

 

The reminder of that 10 EUR advertisement of "cheap energetic transmissions", to someone who needs qualified help, is an 🪓 😂?

Calling-out events factually is not about grinding axes btw, that assumption is false.

[snowymountains]

5 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

 

I rest my case

 

Your keyboard, your self-assigned case, your decision.

The projection and extrapolation on assigning motive to others based on your life experience was entirely unsolicited 🙂

[silent thunder]

11 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

 

The Dalai Lama's behavior was certainly odd by conventional standards but he says he was being "innocent and playful" and I'm willing to take him at his word.  

 

11 hours ago, Cobie said:

That I find disgusting 

 

11 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

 

You're not alone in that reaction, I'm sure.  My intuitive sense is that the Dalai Lama was being mischieviously playful rather than sexual, though it's possible that I'm wrong.  In any case, your feeling is very understandable and likely the majority view.

 

6 hours ago, snowymountains said:

 

His behaviour was simply appalling, to say the least, judges should be the one to decide if he was "mischievously playful", like for everyone else who doesn't have immunities.

 

This displays a very simple lack of understanding of a cultural saying which is actually quite loving.

In Tibet when a child has eaten and is still hungry the parent will say 'You may take all of me' instead or 'take my tongue' meaning... I would give you anything, everything, the world, even myself.  It's quite loving.

 

To  project your sexual connotations onto it is a reflection of our culture, not the inclinations of HHDL.

 

So many cultural sayings^{(not to mention fairy tales)} if taken literally are quite horrific.  They are understood in context however when one is familiar with the culture.  Rest well folks, or don't...

[snowymountains]

Just now, silent thunder said:

 

 

 

 

This displays a very simple lack of understanding of a cultural saying which is actually quite loving.

In Tibet when a child has eaten and is still hungry the parent will say 'You may take all of me' instead or 'take my tongue' meaning... I would give you anything, everything, the world, even myself.  It's quite loving.

 

To  project your sexual connotations onto it is a reflection of our culture, not the inclinations of HHDL.

 

So many cultural sayings^{(not to mention fairy tales)} if taken literally are quite horrific.  They are understood in context however when one is familiar with the culture.  Rest well folks, or don't...

 

It would just be better that a judge balanced all these cultural factors, like it would happen for anybody else from Tibet who doesn't have immunity.

[silent thunder]

1 minute ago, snowymountains said:

 

It would just be better that a judge balanced all these cultural factors, like it would happen for anybody else from Tibet who doesn't have immunity.

[snowymountains]

4 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

I'm sure there's deep context there but it's a free and open society that called out Dalai Lama for what he did and at least forced to backpedal. Hopefully next time he will be more aware and mindful of the environment.

[snowymountains]

He's also backpedaled on his view that a female Dalai Lama needs to be attractive 🤔

 

Media scrutiny is a great thing today, which didn't exist in the ancient times nor in the middle ages

 

 

 

 

[Apech]

39 minutes ago, snowymountains said:

He's also backpedaled on his view that a female Dalai Lama needs to be attractive 🤔

 

Media scrutiny is a great thing today, which didn't exist in the ancient times nor in the middle ages

 

 

 

 

 

'Media scrutiny' i.e. because of his political position (not his Buddhist one) he is forced to recant a humourous remark to save being cancelled.  That's progress alright.

[snowymountains]

Just now, Apech said:

 

'Media scrutiny' i.e. because of his political position (not his Buddhist one) he is forced to recant a humourous remark to save being cancelled.  That's progress alright.

 

His political position receives great support actually, rightfully so as the Tibetan community as a whole is a refugee community.

 

It's the remark that he was criticised about, he repeated it twice actually, then he backpedaled by calling it a joke and at the end apologised.

 

The progress is that religious authority, unlike the middle ages, is not off the hook, they're scrutinised and flow of information is not controlled.

 

It's a free society with access to information in the 21st century, not a medieval one that can't read and is driven by superstition. This is huge progress.

[SirPalomides]

The whole tulku system is corrupt, abusive, and generally ridiculous. The tulkus may well be victims themselves... I suspect the experience of the poor second Kalu Rinpoche is hardly unique (incidentally the prior Kalu Rinpoche was quite the creep). As for the Dalai Lama, leaving aside the weird incident with the kid, he's shown he will meet with anyone who can shell out the cash. And if you're, say, the owner of a Mongol mining conglomerate he might even recognize your son as a tulku. 

[snowymountains]

3 hours ago, SirPalomides said:

The whole tulku system is corrupt, abusive, and generally ridiculous. The tulkus may well be victims themselves... I suspect the experience of the poor second Kalu Rinpoche is hardly unique (incidentally the prior Kalu Rinpoche was quite the creep). As for the Dalai Lama, leaving aside the weird incident with the kid, he's shown he will meet with anyone who can shell out the cash. And if you're, say, the owner of a Mongol mining conglomerate he might even recognize your son as a tulku. 

 

 

From https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalu_Rinpoche

"

June Campbell, a former Kagyu nun who is a feminist scholar, acted as Kalu Rinpoche's translator for several years. In her book Traveller in Space: Gender, Identity and Tibetan Buddhism,[3] she writes that she consented to participate in what she realised later was an abusive sexual relationship with him, which he told her was tantric spiritual practice. She raises the same theme in a number of interviews, including one with Tricycle magazine in 1996.[4] Since the book was published she has received "letters from women all over the world with similar and worse experiences" with other gurus.

"

 

With Tibetans there are way more serious concerns than whether they offer a complete path...

 

And the story is similar for quite a few Rinponches.

 

As for being themselves victims, it's not at all unthinkable..

Edited February 15 by snowymountains

[Apech]

3 hours ago, SirPalomides said:

The whole tulku system is corrupt, abusive, and generally ridiculous. The tulkus may well be victims themselves... I suspect the experience of the poor second Kalu Rinpoche is hardly unique (incidentally the prior Kalu Rinpoche was quite the creep). As for the Dalai Lama, leaving aside the weird incident with the kid, he's shown he will meet with anyone who can shell out the cash. And if you're, say, the owner of a Mongol mining conglomerate he might even recognize your son as a tulku. 

I agree I can’t see the tulku system lasting much longer.   I think we’ve discussed the many cases of sexual misconduct before on here.  There’s no excuse for any of them.

[Keith108]

On 2/13/2024 at 11:50 AM, Maddie said:

 

Hey Keith 

 

It's not being dragged but I would argue that the spirit of the Buddha's invitation to open inquiry is being honored here. The Buddha encouraged questioning, and asking "why is the thing that I think to be true, actually true?" 

 

You were saying? 

[snowymountains]

6 minutes ago, Apech said:

I agree I can’t see the tulku system lasting much longer.   I think we’ve discussed the many cases of sexual misconduct before on here.  There’s no excuse for any of them.

 

The question also is if turning a blind eye is a norm.

 

There have been cases where the victims were actually dismissed when they spoke up.

[snowymountains]

7 minutes ago, Keith108 said:

 

You were saying? 

 

Calling out passive aggressive is "right boundaries"

 

Btw you forgot the _/|\_ 🙂

 

[Apech]

18 minutes ago, snowymountains said:

 

The question also is if turning a blind eye is a norm.

 

There have been cases where the victims were actually dismissed when they spoke up.

 

Yes indeed and it goes deeper than this.  The teachings in vajrayana specifically deal with interaction with the Lama in a number of ways - there are specific texts on this - and just to give a feel there should be a 12 years period where the student assess the Lama to see if he is genuine in knowledge and conduct and so on.  And specifically it is stated that if a Lama asks a student to do something un-dharmic (like sexual misconduct) one must refuse and walk away.  Clearly the teaching of these things was deliberately neglected and naive westerners left to become victims.  Cultish behaviour with cover ups and so on compounded the damage.

 

It is all quite reprehensible.  But the vajrayana is a dangerous path - because it is potent.  This is why the samaya vows in vajrayana are very strict.  For instance it is a root downfall to 'disparage women' - and I wonder if Kalu Rinpoche (senior) had forgotten this!!!

 

When it is properly taught - it is very respectful, calm, gentle and kind.  Because it is known that misdirecting psycho-spiritual energies can be very destructive.

 

 

 

[snowymountains]

Just now, Apech said:

 

Yes indeed and it goes deeper than this.  The teachings in vajrayana specifically deal with interaction with the Lama in a number of ways - there are specific texts on this - and just to give a feel there should be a 12 years period where the student assess the Lama to see if he is genuine in knowledge and conduct and so on.  And specifically it is stated that if a Lama asks a student to do something un-dharmic (like sexual misconduct) one must refuse and walk away.  Clearly the teaching of these things was deliberately neglected and naive westerners left to become victims.  Cultish behaviour with cover ups and so on compounded the damage.

 

It is all quite reprehensible.  But the vajrayana is a dangerous path - because it is potent.  This is why the samaya vows in vajrayana are very strict.  For instance it is a root downfall to 'disparage women' - and I wonder if Kalu Rinpoche (senior) had forgotten this!!!

 

When it is properly taught - it is very respectful, calm, gentle and kind.  Because it is known that misdirecting psycho-spiritual energies can be very destructive.

 

 

 

 

I've met Vajrayana teachers who are clean sheets and I also know this from long term female students of theirs, so the degree of confidence is quite high. Clearly not everyone is like that, and indeed they were calm and personable people with a good energy.

 

The core imo is that a Guru model allows more room for that in that checks and balances depend too much on goodwill - same applies to the Christian confessor model which is meant to be a lifelong relationship, with similar issues appearing there.

There are also other issues with these models not related to abuse but let's leave that for a future 🧵

[Apech]

7 minutes ago, snowymountains said:

 

I've met Vajrayana teachers who are clean sheets and I also know this from long term female students of theirs, so the degree of confidence is quite high. Clearly not everyone is like that, and indeed they were calm and personable people with a good energy.

 

The core imo is that a Guru model allows more room for that in that checks and balances depend too much on goodwill - same applies to the Christian confessor model which is meant to be a lifelong relationship, with similar issues appearing there.

There are also other issues with these models not related to abuse but let's leave that for a future 🧵

i am not sure what you mean by goodwill - can you expand that point a little?

[snowymountains]

Just now, Apech said:

i am not sure what you mean by goodwill - can you expand that point a little?

 

I mean there are little mechanisms in place proactively preventing misdeeds, it depends almost entirely on the character of the teacher.

If the character is a good one, all good. If not, then abuse happens more easily.

[Apech]

29 minutes ago, snowymountains said:

 

I mean there are little mechanisms in place proactively preventing misdeeds, it depends almost entirely on the character of the teacher.

If the character is a good one, all good. If not, then abuse happens more easily.

well exactly as in a marriage for instance not to be entered into lightly!

[snowymountains]

Just now, Apech said:

well exactly as in a marriage for instance not to be entered into lightly!

 

I see what you say, but it's complex, unfortunately.

 

Abuse victims may had normalized abuse before, or they may be even attracted to an abuser because of certain traits but before manifestation of abusive behaviour, which comes later to their surprise.

 

Then when the abuse starts, it's very difficult to leave for a lot of reasons including practical ones.

 

It's not like they consciously know in advance all the factors, even for themselves, but nonetheless choose to make a misjudged conscious decision.

 

It's just complicated, unfortunately.

[snowymountains]

To be practical see eg this case

Given the environment she grew up in, her very young age, was she realistically in a position see it coming beforehand? ( This one is on trial btw do we don't yet know for sure what happened )

 

Edited February 15 by snowymountains