Zhou Ziliang's elixir

[SirPalomides]

Here's a juicy Daoist topic: ritual self-poisoning as a path to transcendence. I've been reading translations of a couple Shangqing texts collected in the volume Religions of China in Practice. It can found for free download online but I won't link it in case that is frowned upon by admins. One of the texts, translated by Stephen Bokenkamp, is Zhou Ziliang's records of visions he received from Perfected spirits leading to his death at age 20. The upshot of these visions is that Ziliang had been appointed to a post in the divine hierarchy but this meant he had to leave his mortal body early, through the use of an elixir, after a period of preparation. These records were collected by his master Tao Hongjing and treated like a scripture. In Tao's preface I get a sense of conflicting feelings- on the one hand, he takes Ziliang's visions at face value and does not question that his disciple achieved what he sought; on the other, he seems less than exultant:

 

I am full of remorse about this affair. I regret that I did not earlier look into Ziliang's activities. His letter causes me to blame myself.

 

Ziliang's own text is fascinating and there's a lot to say about it and the other Shangqing records included in this book, as well as predecessor texts like the Yuanyou. For now I'll talk about the bare practice of transcendence via self-poisoning. In my prior, very cursory reading about Daoist alchemical elixirs, I was led to believe that the poisonings recorded throughout history were accidents but it seems in this case it was very much not so and I wonder how often such a practice was taken. Evidently from Ziliang's secretiveness, and the shock and dismay of his master and family, it was not normative in the Shangqing circle... but it was also not exactly proscribed. 

[snowymountains]

26 minutes ago, SirPalomides said:

Here's a juicy Daoist topic: ritual self-poisoning as a path to transcendence. I've been reading translations of a couple Shangqing texts collected in the volume Religions of China in Practice. It can found for free download online but I won't link it in case that is frowned upon by admins. One of the texts, translated by Stephen Bokenkamp, is Zhou Ziliang's records of visions he received from Perfected spirits leading to his death at age 20. The upshot of these visions is that Ziliang had been appointed to a post in the divine hierarchy but this meant he had to leave his mortal body early, through the use of an elixir, after a period of preparation. These records were collected by his master Tao Hongjing and treated like a scripture. In Tao's preface I get a sense of conflicting feelings- on the one hand, he takes Ziliang's visions at face value and does not question that his disciple achieved what he sought; on the other, he seems less than exultant:

 

I am full of remorse about this affair. I regret that I did not earlier look into Ziliang's activities. His letter causes me to blame myself.

 

Ziliang's own text is fascinating and there's a lot to say about it and the other Shangqing records included in this book, as well as predecessor texts like the Yuanyou. For now I'll talk about the bare practice of transcendence via self-poisoning. In my prior, very cursory reading about Daoist alchemical elixirs, I was led to believe that the poisonings recorded throughout history were accidents but it seems in this case it was very much not so and I wonder how often such a practice was taken. Evidently from Ziliang's secretiveness, and the shock and dismay of his master and family, it was not normative in the Shangqing circle... but it was also not exactly proscribed. 

 

Do you know if the poisons had secondary functions, ie were they acting as a hallucinogenics ( in parallel to being ..poisons ).

 

Also did the visions occur after poison consumption ( regardless of whether the poisons were hallucinogenic or not ), or the two practices were not executed one after the other ?

[SirPalomides]

In this case the elixir was taken after the visions (and the recipe was provided by the Perfected who appeared). Supposedly the elixir did include mushrooms; likewise I have seen speculations that the Shangqing revelations in general were facilitated by certain substances (which may have been part of the incense Zhou Ziliang was burning) but I don't know what the evidence is for this. 

[SirPalomides]

One thing that struck me about Ziliang's visions is how earthy they are, in the way the visiting Perfected interact with the environment much like flesh-and-blood people. His description is almost novelistic, quite different from the ecstatic visions of the Chuci.  E.g.:

 

Just then a wind arose and was about to blow over the umbrella, so he ordered his assistants to see to it.

 

The youngster Chidou was playing in the courtyard. He came running by and was about to bump the umbrella, but an attendant pushed him lightly to the side with his hands. At the same time, Langshan came to fetch a cup from the shelf and, in so doing, knocked into the attendant and almost fell over, but other attendants caught him in time.
 

"Who was that youngster?" the deputy asked.
 

"His family is from Qiantang and is surnamed Yu," I said. "He was sent to this place [by his Buddhist father] to stay for a while."
 

"Well, do not allow him to run around naked like that or the spirits will see him," said the deputy. 

 

The visions of Yang Xi in Declarations of the Perfected also have this novelistic quality. 

 

 

[snowymountains]

My personal experience with ( lucid ) dream progressions has been that the progressed from the extraordinary/sci-fi movie material to the very ordinary.

 

In that during a long period of lucidity they started off with all the fantasy movie type of stuff ( daemons, flying ) and the progression was ..they begun to resemble real life more and more.

 

Like each "level" in this "game" had a "puzzle" to solve ( ie let the daemons kill you instead of fighting ). Then the next "level" was a little closer to reality, etc etc to the point I dropped dreamwork because there was nothing untypical there anymore, it was like reality.

 

I don't know if this can be generalised or if it's just how it happened to work out for for me.

 

Just thought of sharing, as if that guy was a lucid dreamer, maybe he had a similar type of progression and this is why his dreams were resembling reality.

Of course it could well be something entirely different for him.

 

The above progression is btw entirely unrelated to therapeutic dreamwork progression, ie unrelated to meeting the shadow, the anima etc, so it's not a proxy for something that's better understood.

[Unota]

Hmm, this sounds like a fun read. I'll add it to my book list.

[idiot_stimpy]

Certainly in recent times there are those who accidentally poison themselves with psychedelic inducing drugs/toxins. 

[Taoist Texts]

10 hours ago, SirPalomides said:

It can found for free download online but I won't link it in case that is frowned upon by admins.

a part of the story can be read legit on googlebooks

10 hours ago, SirPalomides said:

Ziliang's visions at face value and does not question that his disciple achieved what he sought; on the other, he seems less than exultant:

 

I am full of remorse about this affair. I regret that I did not earlier look into Ziliang's activities. His letter causes me to blame myself.

one would think that the blame and remorse is about not stopping Ziliang from suicide, if it can be even called such. but it cannot be so because Ziliang successfully transcended. Actually the remorse is about failing to learn Ziliang's transcendence method.

 

11 hours ago, SirPalomides said:

In my prior, very cursory reading about Daoist alchemical elixirs, I was led to believe that the poisonings recorded throughout history were accidents but it seems in this case it was very much not so and I wonder how often such a practice was taken. Evidently from Ziliang's secretiveness, and the shock and dismay of his master and family, it was not normative in the Shangqing circle

actually it was normative.

Quote

For instance, the Shangqing School Daoist pharmacologist Tao Hongjing's 499 Zhen'gao (真誥, Declarations of the Perfected) describes taking a White Powder elixir.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_alchemical_elixir_poisoning#Six_dynasties

 

the shock was due to the unexpected nature of the incident, not to the use of alleged poison. Also the story specifically denies any evidence of poisoning

Quote

 the kettle was checked. It seemed to smell only of ordinary liquor.
Ziliang's earthenware basin had been washed out and was odorless. No traces
of drugs were found anywhere. There was really no evidence as to which drug
he had used to achieve the Dao

 

 

 

 

[Cobie]

16 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

… it was normative.

 

“… everyone … was shocked and dismayed” (page 193 of your link  googlebooks )

 

Quote

… the story specifically denies any evidence of poisoning 

 

“… he took the elixer”. (page 193)

 

”… this young man’s … preparing the drug that would … translate him to the … postmortem position…” (page 189)

 

“In Ziliang’s records there was a recepy for the Ninefold Perfected Jade-Liquor Elixer, presumably this is what he used”. (page 194)

 

“ … Tao's disciple Zhou Ziliang whom Shangqing deities reportedly instructed to prepare a poisonous elixir and commit suicide in order to achieve immortality.” https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_alchemical_elixir_poisoning   
 

 

Edited February 17 by Cobie

[Cobie]

 

“In Chinese history, the alchemical practice of concocting elixirs of immortality from metallic and mineral substances began circa the 4th century BCE in the late Warring states period, reached a peak in the 9th century CE Tang dynasty when five emperors died, and, despite common knowledge of the dangers, elixir poisoning continued until the 18th century Qing dynasty.”

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_alchemical_elixir_poisoning   
 

 

Edited February 17 by Cobie

[SirPalomides]

Some additional context:

About the bu hour (5:00 P.M.), Ziliang's younger brother Ziping found him in the meditation chamber of his hut burning incense. Ziliang came out to the door and asked Ziping why he had come. Ziping said, "Auntie has become ill. She wants you to come and fix a medicinal broth for her."
Ziliang replied: "I am also feeling a little ill. I was just about to take some medicine. You should go back now. If she is not feeling better, you can come back again." Ziping saw that there was a half-cup measure of liquor heating in a kettle in Ziliang's hut.
Ziping hastily returned to their aunt and repeated Ziliang's message to her. She was greatly alarmed. She immediately ordered Ziping to run back to Zi- liang's hut. When he reached the hut, Ziping saw Ziliang lying prone on the floor and did not dare enter. Within a few moments, Ziliang's mother and aunt reached the hut as well and, seeing Ziliang prostrate on the floor, began to wail mournfully: "What have you done? What have you done?"
Ziliang only closed his eyes, raising his hand to snap his fingers three times, and said: "Don't cry out. Don't cry out. You will ruin everything."
Ziliang's mother, in trying to raise his head, stepped on his headcloth. He rolled over, his hand still raised, and repeatedly fumbled with his headcloth, setting it straight. In a moment, his breathing ceased.
Ziliang had ignited in his censer a sliver of frankincense about the size of a cowhage bean. When he died, it had not yet stopped burning. Judging from this, we can estimate that only about half the time it takes to eat a meal had elapsed since he took the elixir. He was only twenty years old.
He had clothed himself only in his undergarments, his sleeping robes and his Daoist ritual robes, the sash of which was tightly tied. He had removed his everyday outer garments and folded them. His face and body were fresh and unblemished, as if he were still alive. Everyone who heard of the event or who saw him was shocked and dismayed.

 

Now with regards to Tao, Taoist Texts may have a point- he later says that he found that Ziliang had burnt many of his writings, which caused Tao to be even more aggrieved. But it does sound like the recipe for the elixir was found, it just isn’t in Bokenkamp’s selection. 

[Cobie]

26 minutes ago, SirPalomides said:

Some additional context:

 

This is from page 193 (of the link TT gave, googlebooks )

 

26 minutes ago, SirPalomides said:

… it does sound like the recipe for the elixir was found …

See above, “In Ziliang’s records there was a recepy for the Ninefold Perfected Jade-Liquor Elixer, presumably this is what he used”. (page 194)

 

 

Edited February 17 by Cobie

[Cobie]

 

16 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

… Ziliang successfully transcended.

 

(I don’t have time to read all that’s on the link) could you please tell me why it is thought that “Ziliang successfully transcended”?
 

 

 

Edited February 17 by Cobie

[SirPalomides]

Tao says:

From this time forward Zhou Ziliang was remote from me in both voice and form—he appeared to me in neither vision nor dream. Such is the gulf of separation between humans and the spirits. But should I not await the proper moment to meet with him again?
The means by which Ziliang achieved the Dao as well as his present rank and style in the spirit world are all layed out in his records. Here I have simply summarized some of his earthly activities as well as what I observed of him to form a preface to his own records.

 

At the end of the preface there is a note (I’m not sure if it’s by Tao or a later copyist) which tells readers to treat Ziliang’s records like scripture, with the appropriate reverence and ritual preparation.

[SirPalomides]

Moving on, another aspect that jumped out at me, in Ziliang‘s account, is something that admittedly I find least appealing in Daoism as it developed, namely, the bureaucratic vision of transcendence:

"At present, our office has an open position. We desire that you fill it. The protocols are nearly settled so there is no need for me to say more about that. You are to be summoned in the tenth month of next year. I came to notify you so that you may begin making preparations ahead of time. If you choose to disobey this order, your records will be charged over to the Three Bureaus where the fate of mortals is decided. Do not be imprudent!"

 

The spirit then goes on to say that Ziliang’s father couldn’t visit because… the appropriate paperwork wasn’t filed!

 

Your father wanted to come with me today but could not because the proper documents have not yet been filled out.

 

I perceive some tension in Daoism between the vision of transcendence- as seen in Zhuangzi, poetry, and wonder tales like the Soushen Ji- as one of carefree freedom, cloud-walking, etc, versus this heavenly paper pusherdom. I wonder how much the Celestial Masters are to blame for this. Bokenkamp mentions elsewhere in this book how the Celestial Master refugees from the north had some friction with southern ecstatic traditions and Shangqing arose as one result of this. 

[Taoist Texts]

9 hours ago, SirPalomides said:

At the end of the preface there is a note (I’m not sure if it’s by Tao or a later copyist)

it is by Tao himself, in the body of his original preface. It only appears to be at the end of the translation because a large chunk of the original coming after the 'note' was omitted by the translator.

https://www.zhonghuadiancang.com/xuanxuewushu/zhoushimingtongji/29412.html

10 hours ago, Cobie said:

(I don’t have time to read all that’s on the link) could you please tell me why it is thought that “Ziliang successfully transcended”?

because he documented his preparatory communication with the spirits, departed at the previously set time, shed his body serenely, with no symptoms of poisoning, and was unavailable in Tao's dreams

 

9 hours ago, SirPalomides said:

I perceive some tension in Daoism between the vision of transcendence- as seen in Zhuangzi, poetry, and wonder tales like the Soushen Ji- as one of carefree freedom, cloud-walking, etc, versus this heavenly paper pusherdom.

the difference is not due the structure of the otherworld per se, but rather due to the individual merit. the practicers with high individual merit get to be independent 'retirees' in the otherworld, versus the ordinary mortals who have to go through the process to be later conscripted as minor heavenly officials. It was the same in  ZZ's time as well

[snowymountains]

2 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

it is by Tao himself, in the body of his original preface. It only appears to be at the end of the translation because a large chunk of the original coming after the 'note' was omitted by the translator.

https://www.zhonghuadiancang.com/xuanxuewushu/zhoushimingtongji/29412.html

because he documented his preparatory communication with the spirits, departed at the previously set time, shed his body serenely, with no symptoms of poisoning, and was unavailable in Tao's dreams

 

 

During ancient times in some cultures something similar was occuring but also different in that instead the recipe was a healing one.

 

The process was along the lines of someone was critically ill, under guidance at a healing centre they contacted what they perceived as spirit, which in turn gave them a recipe for a cure.

 

Then the (ancient) doctor at the healing centre used this recipe as treatment.

 

In this case was it him that asked the spirits how to make the elixir, or the spirits gave to him the recipe, without him asking, in a sense dictating him what to do?

[Taoist Texts]

1 hour ago, snowymountains said:

was it him that asked the spirits how to make the elixir, or the spirits gave to him the recipe, without him asking,

there is neither of these occurrences in his extant diary. In fact the elixir is mentioned two times only: 1)  the spirit says to him 'when the elixir is swallowed you first  go to the Penglai paradise' 2) in his papers there was an unattributed elixir recipe with no other pertinent info.

 

15 hours ago, SirPalomides said:

the recipe for the elixir was found, it just isn’t in Bokenkamp’s selection. 

just in case you guys are curious what the recipe was (AI transl.)

Quote

 

The Purple Pill of Zhou Zhiyang's Nine Truths Jade Stream Elixir Recipe:  

Nine-stalked purple conch mushrooms and aubretia moss, each weighing one pound, [originate from southern Fujian, and there are also varieties found in northern Min.].

Two pounds of cinnabar and jade decoction. [Similarly, there are sources in southern Fujian as well.]

The two ingredients are finely chopped, and the moss is soaked in half a pound of jade decoction for a night, burying yin within yang and removing three inches of yang. They are then placed in the ground, one foot deep, in an earthenware container large enough to hold four pounds. A ceramic lid is placed on top and sealed with wax. Two inches of soil are added above it. The burial is to take place at noon today, and the contents are to be unearthed at noon tomorrow. Carry them southward and place them ten paces from your residence, where you will rest your head on a pillow. At noon tomorrow, boil the remaining pound of jade decoction in a copper pot. Ensure the fire is evenly distributed beneath the pot and does not let the flames touch the edges. When the liquid has reached three boils, add more fire at a height of about five inches, using tussock as fuel. Let the remaining decoction simmer until it has evaporated by one pound. Seal the juice for three days. Upon opening it, you should see a violet glow shining through, replacing the need for a lamp at night. This completes the preparation. If you wish to wrap the medicine in paper and tightly secure it, it will stop flowing water, lock a room so that a thousand people cannot open it, deter a group of bandits from moving, make mountains and people immobile, and if you want to ascend to heaven quickly, you can consume it and die instantly; if you wish to live a long life on earth, take it moderately, and you will still become an immortal. Do not reveal this to others, only know it in your heart and consume it in private. If others find out, they will only deprive you of this elixir.

 

 

[Cobie]

10 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

… because he documented his preparatory communication with the spirits, departed at the previously set time, shed his body serenely, with no symptoms of poisoning, and was unavailable in Tao's dreams 

Thank you for replying.