Muslims have the highest life satisfaction: They have a feeling of 'oneness' that trumps Christians, Buddhists and yogis, study suggests

[blue eyed snake]

1 hour ago, Nungali said:

 

 

Hey !  Whats with the colored robes .... I have only ever noticed that dance done in white robes before .

 

 

The times they are achanging, even the Sufi's change their ways.

 

I remember during zifa gong aka spontaneous movement I've been whirling, its an exhilarating and at the same time sobering feeling.

 

uhm, sort of like you combine the outgoing movement with the inwards movement, the twirling in itself is an outgoing movement but to keep it up you have to sort of pull in, keep to yourself.To keep the body from toppling over.

 

ah well...words..

Edited February 17 by blue eyed snake
typo

[Nungali]

8 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

 

The times they are achanging, even the Sufi's change their ways.

 

I remember during zifa gong aka spontaneous movement I've been twirling, its an exhilarating and at the same time sobering feeling.

 

uhm, sort of like you combine the outgoing movement with the inwards movement, the twirling in itself is an outgoing movement but to keep it up you have to sort of pull in, keep to yourself.To keep the body from toppling over.

 

ah well...words..

 

 

yeah yeah  .... but the colored robes   ... I need more than 'the times are a changing'

 

whats going on with that ?  

 

Its interesting to me because ....  I will explain later , I cant do it on this computer I am using at the moment 

[Elysium]

1 hour ago, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

 

@Elysium might be able to talk about this!
 

I wrote a somewhat two hour long essay here that included concept of awliya/sainthood in Islam, layers of heaven, Wahdat-al Wujood, how important your intent is, list goes on, and then it said "show new reply" and then when I clicked that my response vanished. 😭

 

So yeah, not doing that again, but will still link a system that I really like and would have used myself if I was still a muslim.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lataif-e-Sitta

 

Zikr is used to work on these Lataif. For more info:

 

http://maktabah.org/blog/?p=227

 

Without a shaykhs guidance, its gonna be either ineffective or downright hazardous just like some of the eastern practices.

 

And for the sainthood I was refering to:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wali

 

[-ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ-]

14 minutes ago, Elysium said:

I wrote a somewhat two hour long essay here that included concept of awliya/sainthood in Islam, layers of heaven, Wahdat-al Wujood, how important your intent is, list goes on, and then it said "show new reply" and then when I clicked that my response vanished. 😭

 

Mashallah brother, the Lord works in mysterious ways

[Nungali]

 

8 hours ago, Elysium said:

I wrote a somewhat two hour long essay here that included concept of awliya/sainthood in Islam, layers of heaven, Wahdat-al Wujood, how important your intent is, list goes on, and then it said "show new reply" and then when I clicked that my response vanished. 😭

 

So yeah, not doing that again, but will still link a system that I really like and would have used myself if I was still a muslim.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lataif-e-Sitta

 

Zikr is used to work on these Lataif. For more info:

 

http://maktabah.org/blog/?p=227

 

Without a shaykhs guidance, its gonna be either ineffective or downright hazardous just like some of the eastern practices.

 

And for the sainthood I was refering to:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wali

 

 

 

 ( 'sad' about the lost work  ....  happened to me in the past ... v.annoying .  )

[snowymountains]

18 hours ago, Elysium said:

I wrote a somewhat two hour long essay here that included concept of awliya/sainthood in Islam, layers of heaven, Wahdat-al Wujood, how important your intent is, list goes on, and then it said "show new reply" and then when I clicked that my response vanished. 😭

 

So yeah, not doing that again, but will still link a system that I really like and would have used myself if I was still a muslim.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lataif-e-Sitta

 

Zikr is used to work on these Lataif. For more info:

 

http://maktabah.org/blog/?p=227

 

Without a shaykhs guidance, its gonna be either ineffective or downright hazardous just like some of the eastern practices.

 

And for the sainthood I was refering to:

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wali

 

 

The "layers of heaven" part is very interesting, if you get a chance to write here or in a separate topic.

 

There's a theologist I follow when I get the chance, John Milbank, who claims that Moses was doing "shamanic" ( per Milbank ) divinations and that his version of the Abrahamic God was effectively what Moses perceived as spirit in his divinations.

In some Shamanic traditions ( Sami, Lakota Sioux if my memory doesn't fail me), there is an upper world in their cosmology, in some cases layered, probably this is why Harner included it in his cosmology of his core Shamanism.

Though traditions we label shamanic today typically have inhomogeneous cosmologies and core Shamanism seems new age-y to me tbh, eg Mongolian "sky" Shamanism doesn't follow the same cosmology, their lower world is different.

Personally I see sense in his work to unify practices he deemed shamanic but not so for cosmologies.

 

Milbank has not expanded on which shamanic tradition he referred to, nor why he called Moses a "Shaman" and thus it's impossible to infer a cosmology from his words.

 

But the origins and evolution of our perception on Abrahamic heavens, as well as celestial hierarchies, is a very interesting topic.

 

Btw Milbank is not entirely objective imo, his faith may interfere with his research, so the above is to be taken with a grain of salt but still interesting.

Edited February 18 by snowymountains

[Elysium]

34 minutes ago, snowymountains said:

The "layers of heaven" part is very interesting, if you get a chance to write here or in a separate topic.

Ever read Dantes Paradiso/Inferno? The sevenfold concept is pretty similar.

 

While there are other opinions, most agree there are seven layers to heaven/paradise/jannah. After one dies, one goes through judgement, and gets to one of layers in Jannah or Jahannam. This is why you would essentially only need to do your duties Allah gave you, and be a good person overall. You should be getting to Jannah sooner or later.

 

In a way there is no need trying to "transcend" in Islam because death will take you there no matter what.

 

To expand a little however:

 

There are three types of worshippers. First ones worship him because they are scared of the eternal punishment. The second type worhips because they want to get to heaven. Allah loves the third ones most however, because, to quote a famous poet:

 

What they call the heaven is

Just a few mansions and a few houris

Give them to the ones who want those

I need you, only you.

 

The third ones are devoted to him because they love him and can't think of else. These are called "friends of Allah/Awliya". If we are looking for transcendence or siddhi, which would be called Karamah, its better to start looking here. But I am diverting.

 

Last but not least, the seven heavens are said to be just a ring that is in a desert, compared to the desert that would be "Arsh". Arsh means throne. Nobody really knows what Arsh truly is, and in Islam I am sure nobody aside from perhaps the last prophet saw it in Miraj. Miraj is a famous event, Muhammad ascends to heavens one by one, and communicates with Allah directly at the end.

 

In fact, archangel Jibril/Gabriel who travels with Muhammad can not cross a certain point, saying that his wings would burn if he would try to breach this point.

 

My interpretations: Jibril means messenger, which is an allegory to mind. Muhammad has to perhaps let go or transcend his mind in order to go this further/deeper/subtler place/plane of existence. For Arsh, which I said it meant throne, I believe its the concept of Allahs dominance over everything.

 

So it goes on like this: Allah exists, none else (its kind of a nothingness here)---> The concept of his supremeness is created---> Everything else is created. For a similar concept you may read about Jewish tree of life, especially the negative veils of existence.

 

TL;DR: Penguins are taking over the world.

 

 

[snowymountains]

20 minutes ago, Elysium said:

Ever read Dantes Paradiso/Inferno? The sevenfold concept is pretty similar.

 

While there are other opinions, most agree there are seven layers to heaven/paradise/jannah. After one dies, one goes through judgement, and gets to one of layers in Jannah or Jahannam. This is why you would essentially only need to do your duties Allah gave you, and be a good person overall. You should be getting to Jannah sooner or later.

 

In a way there is no need trying to "transcend" in Islam because death will take you there no matter what.

 

To expand a little however:

 

There are three types of worshippers. First ones worship him because they are scared of the eternal punishment. The second type worhips because they want to get to heaven. Allah loves the third ones most however, because, to quote a famous poet:

 

What they call the heaven is

Just a few mansions and a few houris

Give them to the ones who want those

I need you, only you.

 

The third ones are devoted to him because they love him and can't think of else. These are called "friends of Allah/Awliya". If we are looking for transcendence or siddhi, which would be called Karamah, its better to start looking here. But I am diverting.

 

Last but not least, the seven heavens are said to be just a ring that is in a desert, compared to the desert that would be "Arsh". Arsh means throne. Nobody really knows what Arsh truly is, and in Islam I am sure nobody aside from perhaps the last prophet saw it in Miraj. Miraj is a famous event, Muhammad ascends to heavens one by one, and communicates with Allah directly at the end.

 

In fact, archangel Jibril/Gabriel who travels with Muhammad can not cross a certain point, saying that his wings would burn if he would try to breach this point.

 

My interpretations: Jibril means messenger, which is an allegory to mind. Muhammad has to perhaps let go or transcend his mind in order to go this further/deeper/subtler place/plane of existence. For Arsh, which I said it meant throne, I believe its the concept of Allahs dominance over everything.

 

So it goes on like this: Allah exists, none else (its kind of a nothingness here)---> The concept of his supremeness is created---> Everything else is created. For a similar concept you may read about Jewish tree of life, especially the negative veils of existence.

 

TL;DR: Penguins are taking over the world.

 

 

 

Very interesting, thanks.

I have read Dante, who btw claimed he wrote it based on visions.

( Though he's not the first to provide similar descriptions )

 

Is there a concept of gatekeepers for each of the layers who need some sort of password phrase or secret knowledge to allow entry ?

 

Also, when you say "throne", is it a throne as in a wooden chair where a king sits or instead throne as in similar to the Christian celestial hierarchy by Pseudo-Dionysius the Areopagite.

 

What is an interesting question, in my view at least, is the archetypes and symbols that appear, what their origins may be, how these archetypes may change with time etc. There are no exact answers to these ofc.

[Elysium]

13 minutes ago, snowymountains said:

Is there a concept of gatekeepers for each of the layers who need some sort of password phrase or secret knowledge to allow entry ?

 

As far as I know, there is only one angel that gatekeeps heaven and his name is Rıdwan. Password phrase? I don't think that would be neccesary at all. 

 

I do not know of anyone that went to heaven and came back save for Prophet Muhammad. Prophet Idris ascended but he never came back so there is that.

 

25 minutes ago, snowymountains said:

Also, when you say "throne", is it a throne as in a wooden chair where a king sits or instead throne as in similar to the Christian celestial hierarchy by Pseudo-Dionysius the Areopagite.

I have already explained what I think of this above, to expand on it, only Salafis think that arsh is a place of dwelling. Most sufis think its created as a symbol of Allahs power.

 

[Gerard]

I don't believe any of that especially coming from a major religion often associated with FUNDAMENTALISM which treats women like stray dogs. 

 

Sufi yes, they are a totally different bunch. Thumbs up!

 

"Yesterday I was clever, so I wanted to change the world. Today I am wise, so I am changing myself." (Rumi)

 

 

But Islam in general don't think much of them and in some instances they are murdered and imprisoned.

 

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/how-many-sufis-in-world-i_b_902164

 

 

 

[kakapo]

On 2/16/2024 at 4:46 PM, -ꦥꦏ꧀ ꦱꦠꦿꦶꦪꦺꦴ- said:

Interesting article. What are your thoughts on this?

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-6908769/Muslims-highest-life-satisfaction-thanks-feeling-oneness.html

 

 

 

Many of the people I know from Indonesia are Muslim, and I agree they are happy as a clam.

 

It is my subjective opinion though that Sikh's are even happier. 

 

I've been to langar several times at my local gurdwara and these guys make you feel like you are on a MDMA Oxytocin speedball.

 

I haven't felt that much love sincerely directed at me since my grandmother died.

 

[Nungali]

7 hours ago, kakapo said:

 

Many of the people I know from Indonesia are Muslim, and I agree they are happy as a clam.

 

It is my subjective opinion though that Sikh's are even happier. 

 

I've been to langar several times at my local gurdwara and these guys make you feel like you are on a MDMA Oxytocin speedball.

 

I haven't felt that much love sincerely directed at me since my grandmother died.

 

 

They are big here ; a nearby town has  TWO  gurdwara !    - my favorite aspects was that great array of weapons they display on their altar . 

 

Guru Nanak Gurdwara - Woolgoolga .

 

They are always happy that you have come to their temple .

 

 

[Taomeow]

Like everybody else, Muslims are very different from other Muslims.  

 

Yesterday's terrorist act at a concert in Moscow was claimed by the Islamic State (IS) militant group.  133 people were killed.  About the same number of people were saved by a 15-year old Kyrgyz boy named Islam who worked as an usher at the concert hall where the attack took place.  He had the key to a back door located somewhere away from the public premises, and amidst the automatic weapons shooting and grenades thrown, he started yelling to the panicking people to follow him and led them to safety.  He exited last, making sure every single person in the crowd of over 100 who followed him was out of that door, only then getting out himself.  Comments to the interview he gave today: "That boy is a Muslim, and the terrorists are shaitans (devils, evil spirits.)"  

 

Alas, it's not as simple as that.  Humans can be easily turned into shaitans -- and the "level of satisfaction" of shaitans doing evil and happily expecting paradise promised them as reward for murder may be as high as anyone else's -- or even higher.