The shadow self

[Apech]

8 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

I think that depends on ones 'psychic schemata '   ..... how you view , or what arragement best describes your 'self' and what are the constituent parts and how do they relate .

 

For example many see 'spirit' as a component of the whole and see variance in how it relates to the whole . Can other parts 'stifle' its development (in the self )  or the  expression of it in the self ?

 

Some examples of what I mean :

 

 

 

 

http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/overview/index.htm#components

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_soul

 

Then again others see soul and spirit as something different , so it also depends on what you mean by 'spirit' .  Essentially 'spirit' is the 'animating force of the essential nature ' ie.   what keeps a daisy alive and keeps it 'within archetype'  /  form .

 

.

 

Woah sexy diagram - not sure I agree with it all though, but hey.

 

I think the basic idea is we are composite beings until we integrate - then we become 'selves' in the true sense.  Until then we are just a bundle of stuff and inconsistencies (!)

 

 

[old3bob]

14 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

I think that depends on ones 'psychic schemata '   ..... how you view , or what arragement best describes your 'self' and what are the constituent parts and how do they relate .

 

For example many see 'spirit' as a component of the whole and see variance in how it relates to the whole . Can other parts 'stifle' its development (in the self )  or the  expression of it in the self ?

 

Some examples of what I mean :

 

 

 

 

http://www.heritageinstitute.com/zoroastrianism/overview/index.htm#components

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Divine_soul

 

Then again others see soul and spirit as something different , so it also depends on what you mean by 'spirit' .  Essentially 'spirit' is the 'animating force of the essential nature ' ie.   what keeps a daisy alive and keeps it 'within archetype'  /  form .

.

 

Good points,  I see Spirit as the "Soul of soul" being that souls are evolving while Spirit is not for if it was it could evolve well or  poorly...(as another passing thing)  Interesting chart btw. and an excellent in-depth outline of Zoroastrianism!   Speaking of our schematics one finds out those are our particular thought forms for the knowable and also the unknowable (through mental means) which can help us to an "x" degree yet are not enough or do not give satisfaction in end game of our inner yearning that is beyond our thoughts or veils.

Edited February 25 by old3bob

[Bindi]

7 hours ago, Apech said:

 

I don't think it is possible to hold it at arms length - I don't think I implied one should do so did I? 
 

 

“There is a risk of over identifying with it because it seems powerful in a way - but you have to realise that its power is just part of the general mirage of power itself (if that makes sense).” This sentence made me think you were trying to keep it at arms length, because a. you don’t want to over-identify with it, and b. you included it in the general ‘mirage of power.’ 

 

Quote

I think that most people deny its existence but that it still operates within them.  But that is provided we take the Yin aspect definition and not the negative block one.  People on here seem to use either.  In my case I was comparing it to the Egyptian 'shade' which is an aspect of a person.  The collection of negative blocks was called either Rerek or Apep (depending on whether it was seen as a kind of host of inimical forces or as one negative being).

 

I think perhaps our ordinary consciousness (ego?) reacts to the presence of the shadow self in a negative way, because the ego is built on defensive positions about ourselves as socially acceptable beings and does not like the idea of a darker side to our nature - something which is unrestrained and carries a certain danger (?).  Our culture reinforces the light versus dark narrative I guess - and this gets mixed with good versus bad.

 

 

I agree with what you say above. 

 

Quote

 

Nothing - I wasn't saying that.  And I don't know what the Buddhist terminology for these ideas would be - but perhaps it would be something to do with shunyata.  Not sure because I am still trying to understand what Jung meant anyway.  I think the idea is to integrate the dark and the light isn't it?  I see the integrated being as the source of power and not the dark exclusively - it would be as much of a mistake to go completely Yin as it would be to go completely Yang (?) - do you agree?  Perhaps mirage was the wrong word - what I meant was that to go completely Yin would give a feeling of power which is not equal to the Tai Chi integration ...maybe.   I'm not being dogmatic just searching for the right terms.

I fully agree that completely yin would be a mistake, but, I think initially yin needs to be overemphasised because it is overly subjected to repression in our society, while Yang is overemphasised. The interesting question for me right now is what fully integrated looks like. 
 

 

Edited February 25 by Bindi

[blue eyed snake]

What nice posts,

 

I've long thought that the shadow, the darker parts of me should be dissolved, or wiped out, or put out with the thrash, something like that.  But not so sure of that anymore.

firstly that shade is made of all different sorts of 'things' and secondly it's just part of me. That's why this picture is so attractive to me.

 

both the good and shiny part and the shadow with its darker characteristics have found each other. It was a high climb to arrive at that top.They embrace while looking out over an unknown landscape. The're feasting on meade or some brew like that. 

 

Spoiler

 

Now things like stupid commands should be shed, why should I not covet that nice young lady, it does not do anybody harm when I look appreciatively at that firm young body. Or the command not to steal, for a hungry kid I will steal when that's the only possibility to feed it . A lot of "cultural commands" do not need to be followed as if they were the high truth either. People tend to internalize the cultural mores, and that way it's still riding you when alone on a mountain

 

then the things from our upbringing, yes, that's working terrain, there are things you can and should try to get rid off.

 

raised in a christian culture my mind lingers on the seven sins, yes, they were on to something. With overindulgence these are harmful, both for yourself and your surroundings.

 

Now these are very good at hiding themselves in your shadow, I hide my anger in my shadow and outwardly play the good girl--

hmm that will become an emotional block, so I let it out without harming people eh.

after letting go of the block some anger came back. Anger has been a core-problem all my life, temper-tantrums as a kid, real fights within myself not to harm anybody, neither with deed nor with words.

 

Someone urges me to do away with that anger "as I would feel so much better without"  that elicits a wry laugh from me, thinking. You're not concerned about my well-being dear, you cannot handle my anger as it wakes up your shadow, your anger. And you're not prepared for that, not even aware of that.

 

so now I have arrived at the time where I think, it's good. I am angry about some things, that's rightful wrath and there's no need to do anything about it, apart from taking care that i do not hurt anybody else. Keeping it inside is wrong ( and also puts an undeserved ( and thus dangerous)  shine on the angelic part: "see what a sweet girl i am")

 

so that's were I've come to, there are parts of the shadow that need to be put out with the trash, when that is done there is is still shadow, that core shadow is part of you and needs to be integrated. Lately when anger flares up I look at it, hello anger.

 

so maybe that's me, happily sitting atop that mountain.

 

 

also the 2 parts of our being are part of the western cultural mores too

Spoiler

 

 

Edited February 25 by blue eyed snake

[snowymountains]

4 hours ago, Apech said:

 

Woah sexy diagram - not sure I agree with it all though, but hey.

 

I think the basic idea is we are composite beings until we integrate - then we become 'selves' in the true sense.  Until then we are just a bundle of stuff and inconsistencies (!)

 

 

 

None is accurate strictly speaking, as in a complete description, even the ones used by psychology.

 

Their merits are judged upon the results they give and this is how the significance of their omissions is judged as well.

Eg in the Buddhist thread I used Jung's model of the psyche exactly because it was one of the first one to make apparent gaps in Freud's model, which was close to the Abhidhamma ( because Freud read a lot of Schopenhauer, who read a lot of Buddha).

It doesn't mean Jung's model of the Psyche is complete.

This also doesn't mean that eg the Abhidhamma is "bad", the most modern model resembling it is cognitive psychology, it does mean though that one needs to be aware of it's limitations and strengths.

 

Same goes for all of these models, including ancient ones. It's more of a question of what is that value of what they include ( in contrast to other models of their era) and what they omit ( again in contrast to other models ) and what are the practicalities around inclusions and omissions.

 

One day we may have something near complete from neuroscience and overall typically newer models are more accurate, simply because sometimes they're even evolved versions of the old ones.

Edited February 25 by snowymountains

[Elysium]

On 24.02.2024 at 8:20 PM, snowymountains said:

The Anima/Animus are also concepts by Jung which are onto something big, typically work on these is right after work on the shadow. Within the context of dreamwork in specific, the associated dreams typically occur after meeting the shadow (and may re-occur in later times when there's a change in the Anima

The feminine side of man and masculine side of woman? Kinda sounds like the famous Yin-Yang symbol. What about them?

[snowymountains]

33 minutes ago, Elysium said:

The feminine side of man and masculine side of woman? Kinda sounds like the famous Yin-Yang symbol. What about them?

 

I wouldn't draw too many parallels as in this way manner parallels could also be drawn with any pair of dual self-complementing concepts.

 

What I personally have found most useful in life was the four stages of the anima and how, with time, there's a change in the anima.

Sometimes we just recognise we're attracted but have no clue as to why, or our "type" changes and we're unaware why, it's all unconscious.

 

The anima is just a component of this of course, eg for some people it's really important there's a pheromone match. Even though many elements are at play and it's not only about the anima, the anima is a very important component.

 

This brings to the conscious something really important in life, partner selection.

Becoming familiar with it, also makes the past look simple and leaves us less puzzled.

Of course it can also be used in reverse, rejecting partners if we deem the animus/anima they see in us means it won't really go that well 😁

 

Just like "meeting" the shadow may happen in a dream, meeting the anima may also happen in a dream and the change of anima can appear in dreamwork too.

Tbh this is the only sort of dreamwork progression I've found to be both interesting and useful.

 

It doesn't mean that everytime someone fancies a new girlfriend there's a change in the anima of course, it's more of a radical change, about the "type" someone is attracted to.

Similarly for women, changes in the animus signal significant changes.

 

Also, the anima/animus is special in the sense that it is one of the archetypes that links us to the collective unconscious, which however is a different discussion altogether.

 

Typically this work is done after work on the shadow-self and if the work is done in dreamwork, there too the anima/animus dreams typically occur after the dreams about the shadow.

So in a sense it's a natural progression after integration of the shadow has progressed to some extent.

Edited February 25 by snowymountains

[Apech]

8 hours ago, Bindi said:

 

“There is a risk of over identifying with it because it seems powerful in a way - but you have to realise that its power is just part of the general mirage of power itself (if that makes sense).” This sentence made me think you were trying to keep it at arms length, because a. you don’t want to over-identify with it, and b. you included it in the general ‘mirage of power.’ 

 

 

I agree with what you say above. 

 

I fully agree that completely yin would be a mistake, but, I think initially yin needs to be overemphasised because it is overly subjected to repression in our society, while Yang is overemphasised. The interesting question for me right now is what fully integrated looks like. 
 

 

 

The thing is for me - the allure of the dark side is strong.  I guess for many its just disturbing and something they would like to stay away from - but I feel the opposite.  For me the ordinary world of the day/light is oppressive.  If I gave in to my natural tendency I would stray deep into the dark.  Maybe that's why I like Ancient Egypt and tombs and wotnot, I don't know.  But what i found was that the allure carries with it an enchantment of 'power' which is illusory.  It has power in its own realm - but brought back into the daylight it is nothing.  So maybe I am a bit weird.  But this is what I was talking about.

 

 

[Nungali]

11 hours ago, Apech said:

 

Woah sexy diagram - not sure I agree with it all though, but hey.

 

   Its one example . I was going to post more but for some reason, lately , I can post 1 or 2 oics then after that 'not allowed'  .

This is sorta like 'one's magical map of the Universe', something a magician is supposed to develop at a certain stage , its based on some consensual ideas but is developed for the self .  Mine is rather large and folds out and incorporates elements of the above plus other stuff like astrology , cosmology, psychology etc .

 

I think the basic idea is we are composite beings until we integrate - then we become 'selves' in the true sense.  Until then we are just a bundle of stuff and inconsistencies (!)

 

My basic idea is 'we' are composite beings , but within all that complexity we search for and find the ' I ' , which might only be a concept . But in any case, that aspect is the magician , the 'king' of his empire (psyche )  and should wisely rule / regulate his kingdom .  Some of these aspects have autonomy , some have no say in the government  of the organism and some 'sit on the council ' .  Its sailing close to the wind .... and that is why a fair few that undertook this path incorrectly .... went bonkers .

 

However mainstream psychology  ( as opposed to the weird shit I get into   )  is coming on board with some of these concepts

 

 

• https://psycnet.apa.org › record › 2015-04047-000

  On multiple selves. - APA PsycNet

  Citation Lester, D. (2015). On multiple selves. Transaction Publishers. Abstract On Multiple Selves refutes the idea that a human being has a single unified self. Instead, David Lester argues, the mind is made up of multiple selves, and this is a normal psychological phenomenon.

 

 

 

Edited February 25 by Nungali

[Nungali]

6 hours ago, snowymountains said:

 

None is accurate strictly speaking, as in a complete description, even the ones used by psychology.

 

Their merits are judged upon the results they give and this is how the significance of their omissions is judged as well.

Eg in the Buddhist thread I used Jung's model of the psyche exactly because it was one of the first one to make apparent gaps in Freud's model, which was close to the Abhidhamma ( because Freud read a lot of Schopenhauer, who read a lot of Buddha).

It doesn't mean Jung's model of the Psyche is complete.

This also doesn't mean that eg the Abhidhamma is "bad", the most modern model resembling it is cognitive psychology, it does mean though that one needs to be aware of it's limitations and strengths.

 

Same goes for all of these models, including ancient ones. It's more of a question of what is that value of what they include ( in contrast to other models of their era) and what they omit ( again in contrast to other models ) and what are the practicalities around inclusions and omissions.

 

One day we may have something near complete from neuroscience and overall typically newer models are more accurate, simply because sometimes they're even evolved versions of the old ones.

 

In my tradition these models are an example .  The teachers warn us not to copy  them and apply them exactly to ourselves . After many degrees of training we are to develop our own .  One's teacher or instructor should go over them with you .

 

Inclusions and omissions might be valid or not, depending on the person . Sometimes we  mistake larger models for personal ones .

 

For example , mine is based on a developed and changed Tree of Life from hermetic Qabbalah .  In original forms Mars is attributed to a sphere 'towards the  top ' . For me  this needs to be adjusted , not on a whim but after insight into a whole system .  Mars 'belongs down there  with the personal planets , as a polarity to Venus and  that dynamic regulated by Mercury .  I won't go on about it, I already have in various posts scattered about DBs .   But if my teacher asks me about it I can validate it  with many cross references and  valid explanations   within the system I developed .  He should not be able to pick holes in it , it should have internal  validity and rationale .

[Nungali]

37 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

The thing is for me - the allure of the dark side is strong.  I guess for many its just disturbing and something they would like to stay away from - but I feel the opposite.  For me the ordinary world of the day/light is oppressive.  If I gave in to my natural tendency I would stray deep into the dark.  Maybe that's why I like Ancient Egypt and tombs and wotnot, I don't know.  But what i found was that the allure carries with it an enchantment of 'power' which is illusory.  It has power in its own realm - but brought back into the daylight it is nothing.  So maybe I am a bit weird.  But this is what I was talking about.

 

 

 

I can imagine you out at night and sneaking around . And in the daytime ; asleep on top of the wardrobe .

[Nungali]

[snowymountains]

2 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

In my tradition these models are an example .  The teachers warn us not to copy  them and apply them exactly to ourselves . After many degrees of training we are to develop our own .  One's teacher or instructor should go over them with you .

 

Inclusions and omissions might be valid or not, depending on the person . Sometimes we  mistake larger models for personal ones .

 

For example , mine is based on a developed and changed Tree of Life from hermetic Qabbalah .  In original forms Mars is attributed to a sphere 'towards the  top ' . For me  this needs to be adjusted , not on a whim but after insight into a whole system .  Mars 'belongs down there  with the personal planets , as a polarity to Venus and  that dynamic regulated by Mercury .  I won't go on about it, I already have in various posts scattered about DBs .   But if my teacher asks me about it I can validate it  with many cross references and  valid explanations   within the system I developed .  He should not be able to pick holes in it , it should have internal  validity and rationale .

 

It's also a question of whether a model per usecase. E.g. in the model you showed, there's Ra, Osiris and Isis.

These may be in someone's collective unconscious because of generations of distant ancestors believing in Ra, Osiris and Isis, or they could be in someone's personal unconscious because they've spent a lot of time studying, visiting sites, etc of Ra, Osiris and Isis.

For someone not belonging to these two categories, the above model wouldn't be a good fit for any purpose.

 

 

Same goes to cosmologies, e.g. look at core shamanism, they use the Sami and Lakota cosmologies, but someone who does not have any lineage from the Sami or Lakota people has exactly 0% chance to have traces of these cosmologies in their collective unconscious, so why use this cosmology when journeying..

Without lineage, only if someone is really willing to immerse in their culture for years and years, their actual culture though, so that it eventually their cosmology becomes part of their unconscious would using these worlds make sense for journeying.

For any other case, active imagination is just the better method to journey as these worlds would have no ancestral nor cultural affinity..

 

Someone taking into account what's in their collective unconscious through ancestry and unconscious through immersion in cultures can create a more personalised model. A model like that may work for them but it would not be broadly applicable, as in a sense they've carved out personalised items out of the unconscious & collective unconscious to create a personalised model.

[Cobie]

“We three, we're all alone
Living in a memory
My echo, my shadow, and me”

 

https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/931-what-are-you-listening-to/?do=findComment&comment=1026663

 

 

Edited February 25 by Cobie

[Nungali]

1 hour ago, snowymountains said:

 

It's also a question of whether a model per usecase. E.g. in the model you showed, there's Ra, Osiris and Isis.

These may be in someone's collective unconscious because of generations of distant ancestors believing in Ra, Osiris and Isis, or they could be in someone's personal unconscious because they've spent a lot of time studying, visiting sites, etc of Ra, Osiris and Isis.

For someone not belonging to these two categories, the above model wouldn't be a good fit for any purpose.

 

I am sorry but that is an 'outside perspective' and rather ill informed .  Its a universal model and they are just external aspects  ( cultural clothing  ... nomenclature )  of that .  I can provide an extensive paper to explain this but I won't go on about it now as I have a lot before - my 3 model of the ideal , behind the real -  all over the site actually .  This study  might fit in with your " or they could be in someone's personal unconscious because they've spent a lot of time studying, " ...

 

I explained how models need to be  adapted TO ones personal consciousness , and here you complain that THIS model MIGHT NOT be unsuitable for someone WITHOUT that  specific knowledge (or consciousness )  .   Ummmm ... yeah .

 

But in any case , even if they are unfamiliar with the  external clothing , they should be aware of the pattern and be able to relate it to their own experience ... that is IF one is perceiving patterns like this at all  .

 

 

Same goes to cosmologies, e.g. look at core shamanism, they use the Sami and Lakota cosmologies, but someone who does not have any lineage from the Sami or Lakota people has exactly 0% chance to have traces of these cosmologies in their collective unconscious, so why use this cosmology when journeying..

 

Again ... basic mistakes .  ' shamanism ' is primarily a form of Buryartian Bo , other indigenous practices have been given this name by outsiders and is actually a cultural misappropriation .  However I agree with a certain illogical stream  in what you are bringing to light ; I often ask people here (at home )  ; whats with all this   New Age pop Amerindian stuff going on down here ? (popular with some hippies )  ;  do you come from there ? is it in your blood?  What is wrong with our own indigenous traditions ? Its connected to the land we live on and the energy we live in ?

 

 

Without lineage, only if someone is really willing to immerse in their culture for years and years, their actual culture though, so that it eventually their cosmology becomes part of their unconscious would using these worlds make sense for journeying.

For any other case, active imagination is just the better method to journey as these worlds would have no ancestral nor cultural affinity..

 

The things I am talking about DO take years and years of study, practice , recording, evaluating  and external examinations . This aint my first BBQ .

 

Someone taking into account what's in their collective unconscious through ancestry and unconscious through immersion in cultures can create a more personalised model. A model like that may work for them but it would not be broadly applicable, as in a sense they've carved out personalised items out of the unconscious & collective unconscious to create a personalised model.

 

If you noticed , I already said that .  With the qualification it should have a base on something   that has some  validity . 

 

You seem mildly  contentious about something .

 

Edited February 25 by Nungali

[Nungali]

58 minutes ago, Cobie said:

“We three, we're all alone
Living in a memory
My echo, my shadow, and me”

 

https://www.thedaobums.com/topic/931-what-are-you-listening-to/?do=findComment&comment=1026663

 

 

 

Yin Yang and Dao  ^

 

Threes be everywhere ;  the basis of the pattern of each thing in the ideal world .

[blue eyed snake]

2 hours ago, Apech said:

 

The thing is for me - the allure of the dark side is strong.  I guess for many its just disturbing and something they would like to stay away from - but I feel the opposite.  For me the ordinary world of the day/light is oppressive.  If I gave in to my natural tendency I would stray deep into the dark.  Maybe that's why I like Ancient Egypt and tombs and wotnot, I don't know.  But what i found was that the allure carries with it an enchantment of 'power' which is illusory.  It has power in its own realm - but brought back into the daylight it is nothing.  So maybe I am a bit weird.  But this is what I was talking about.

 

 

 

ooh, that sort of shade, 

 

I remember that, it just went away by itself, halfway my thirties I guess.

 

[Bindi]

15 minutes ago, Apech said:

 

The thing is for me - the allure of the dark side is strong.  I guess for many its just disturbing and something they would like to stay away from - but I feel the opposite.  For me the ordinary world of the day/light is oppressive.  If I gave in to my natural tendency I would stray deep into the dark.  Maybe that's why I like Ancient Egypt and tombs and wotnot, I don't know.  But what i found was that the allure carries with it an enchantment of 'power' which is illusory.  It has power in its own realm - but brought back into the daylight it is nothing.  So maybe I am a bit weird.  But this is what I was talking about.

 

 

With inexplicable tendencies like this I often wonder if a past life is at play, where some ‘power’ was gained but not the full circuit so to speak. Perhaps you sat holed up in a dark cave, or unclothed in a graveyard eating human flesh, etc etc, but this is not what I mean by the shadow self. In your case I agree this is not the way to go, and I see (I think) what you might mean about the enchantment of an illusory power. 
 

To me the shadow self holds pain and it is hard to approach, it holds no allure as pain is not alluring generally speaking, but it must be grappled with. Thanks for explaining what you meant 🙂

[zerostao]

2019, pretty much entirely, was my main shadow year. In my ppj; I have that thread currently hidden. The experience was deep on another level, multidimensional, intersecting, all kinds of elements involved. 2019 was a monumental year for me in life altering events, All of it overshadowed by the Shadow. Remaining fully conscious of that, recognizing everyone else's (it was a small town) conscious efforts with their shadow, at a place where seemingly, shadows ran from themselves, and towards themselves as well. 

A couple of things, for now, Jung spoke of, he did mention devil in one passage, and whatever idea you happen to have of "devil" whether a real entity, religious or not, some art motif, something psychological, whatever your notion happens to be, you are going to deal with it, in one form or another at a deep personal level. Up close, eye to eye.

Jung says that keeping something inner situational unconscious leads it showing up outside of us, fateful. 

The OP cites Jung saying this again and again, just worded differently. 

This aspect of shadow work, in its workings, I found of utmost curiosity and undeniable. 

 

So, five years after, maybe enough time and distance have passed for me to take another look at it, for me personally, I still have some shadow work going on, but nothing like 2019.

 

 

 

 

 

[Apech]

13 hours ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

ooh, that sort of shade, 

 

I remember that, it just went away by itself, halfway my thirties I guess.

 

 

For me it was late teens and early twenties.

[Apech]

13 hours ago, Bindi said:

With inexplicable tendencies like this I often wonder if a past life is at play, where some ‘power’ was gained but not the full circuit so to speak. Perhaps you sat holed up in a dark cave, or unclothed in a graveyard eating human flesh, etc etc, but this is not what I mean by the shadow self. In your case I agree this is not the way to go, and I see (I think) what you might mean about the enchantment of an illusory power. 
 

To me the shadow self holds pain and it is hard to approach, it holds no allure as pain is not alluring generally speaking, but it must be grappled with. Thanks for explaining what you meant 🙂

 

 

Perhaps then the Egyptian shade and the Jungian shadow are not the same thing.

 

I don't think that my tendancies are inexplicable - it's just the people are different and have different emphases.

 

 

[Apech]

10 hours ago, zerostao said:

2019, pretty much entirely, was my main shadow year. In my ppj; I have that thread currently hidden. The experience was deep on another level, multidimensional, intersecting, all kinds of elements involved. 2019 was a monumental year for me in life altering events, All of it overshadowed by the Shadow. Remaining fully conscious of that, recognizing everyone else's (it was a small town) conscious efforts with their shadow, at a place where seemingly, shadows ran from themselves, and towards themselves as well. 

A couple of things, for now, Jung spoke of, he did mention devil in one passage, and whatever idea you happen to have of "devil" whether a real entity, religious or not, some art motif, something psychological, whatever your notion happens to be, you are going to deal with it, in one form or another at a deep personal level. Up close, eye to eye.

Jung says that keeping something inner situational unconscious leads it showing up outside of us, fateful. 

The OP cites Jung saying this again and again, just worded differently. 

This aspect of shadow work, in its workings, I found of utmost curiosity and undeniable. 

 

So, five years after, maybe enough time and distance have passed for me to take another look at it, for me personally, I still have some shadow work going on, but nothing like 2019.

 

 

 

 

 

 

"I'll wait in this place where the sun never shines
Wait in this place where the shadows run from themselves"

 

 

[snowymountains]

10 hours ago, zerostao said:

So, five years after, maybe enough time and distance have passed for me to take another look at it, for me personally, I still have some shadow work going on, but nothing like 2019.

 

 

 

 

 

 

There always will be some shadow work remaining to be done🙂, it's just subtler and subtler after previous work has been done.

[Mark Foote]

I reworked one of my previous posts on this thread into a post on my own website.

Bindi, my apologies--I know anything having to do with the teachings of Gautama the Shakyan is like some kind of shadow-side distraction to you...

 

The Practice of Time
 

One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious. The latter procedure, however, is disagreeable and therefore not popular.
 

(Carl Jung: The Philosophical Tree; Collected Works 13: Alchemical Studies. Paragraph 335)

 

Shunryu Suzuki described the true practice of seated meditation as “just sitting”, meaning that “doing something” in the act of sitting has ceased.  I believe, as Gautama the Buddha said, that the cessation of “doing something” in speech, body, or mind is a contact of freedom.

 

I don’t think the integration of childhood memories, pre-speech memories, and inured emotional responses can take place apart from that cessation of “doing something” in the body and mind and that contact of freedom.

 

I practice more now, as I see that the cessation I experience in “just sitting”  helps to provide a sense of timing in my life, a sense of timing that seems related to a whole beyond what I can know.

 

I’m not looking to become enlightened, or to make the darkness conscious.

 

… time, just as it is, is being, and being is all time.

 

(Dogen:  “Uji (Being-Time)”; “The Heart of Dōgen’s Shōbōgenzō”, tr by Waddell, Norman; Abe, Masao. SUNY Press. 2001. p 48)

 

 

(The Practice of Time)

 

 

 

 

Edited February 26 by Mark Foote

[Nungali]

8 hours ago, Apech said:

 

For me it was late teens and early twenties.

 

 

Well, I am gad you found you way back to the light side