Shuigong

[sheng zhen]

[林愛偉]

It is just as Dao Zhen's cultivation brother explained it. Its just meditation work.

 

With diligent and a well foundation in cultivation, meditation, etc... dreams and waking reality are not different. There would be no distinguishing the two. If a high cultivator is seen to be sleeping, he/she is really not sleeping. Their sleep is meditation. Its neither awake nor not awake. This is why they can do specific things in their "dream states".

 

Its not a mystery, just takes one to meditate: Just meditate, do not get stuck in states, do not be arrogant, greedy and do ignorant things; control your behavior, characteristics. Any sign of attainment is just an outcome and not the highest point. So drop any emotional ideas that there were attainments made in one's cultivation; do not share attainments with others for it breeds arrogance, and ignorance and is the food for attachment to views.

 

Seriously speaking, if one's waking state is full of frustrations and confusions, it is not clear. Why bother with dreams as though they were something different?

 

 

Peace,

Lin

Edited May 22, 2008 by 林愛偉

[minkus]

Thanx many times Lin !

[sheng zhen]

Seriously speaking, if one's waking state is full of frustrations and confusions, it is not clear. Why bother with dreams as though they were something different?

Peace,

Lin

Yes, thank you Lin.

 

If you have a good dreamwork method, like is shown at www.dreamyoga.com, you can see the wonderful light, clearity, intelligence, and "hidden" nudging of the soul to point you in the right direction for your evolution. But you need a way, or the ability to see behind the illusory images.

 

But I totally agree with you on the concept that there is no difference in working the dreams or with waking life. Its the same thing. Only small difference is that in dreams our normal conditioning and limitations is a little more fluid.

[林愛偉]

..... Only small difference is that in dreams our normal conditioning and limitations is a little more fluid.

 

 

Yes you are totally correct here and also that in the dream state, our afflictions are more obviously in our faces and easier to see, than in the "waking" state.

 

In the waking state, we view our afflictions as enjoyable, and harmless, but the same afflictions appear in the dream state as extreme situations, demons which appear and harm, emotional craziness, etc.

 

It is more emphasized in the dream state for our intellect is just that much more put down while in that state, yet not in totality.

 

Peace,

Lin

[rain]

Yes you are totally correct here and also that in the dream state, our afflictions are more obviously in our faces and easier to see, than in the "waking" state.

 

In the waking state, we view our afflictions as enjoyable, and harmless, but the same afflictions appear in the dream state as extreme situations, demons which appear and harm, emotional craziness, etc.

 

It is more emphasized in the dream state for our intellect is just that much more put down while in that state, yet not in totality.

 

Peace,

Lin

 

 

this distinction af boarder between waking and dreamstate...

 

think about walking on the boarderline between wake and dream state.

would you like that ?

enjoy that?

what do you think?

 

sigh..

[林愛偉]

this distinction af boarder between waking and dreamstate...

 

think about walking on the boarderline between wake and dream state.

would you like that ?

enjoy that?

what do you think?

 

sigh..

 

 

No different. Its the conditions within the mind which cause the difference of views when experiencing states.

Thus the reason why certain things happen in a dream state and certain things happen when not in the dream state. But alsso know that the dream state is said to be a state because one's body is resting and there appears to be an existence of forms and emotions at that time.

 

The waking state is not any different. The only time there would be a true waking state is if the discriminating mind were dropped. Then all states are no states, and there is nothing that needs to be manifest, but is manifest just for the sake that there are those who still hold onto views.

 

Peace,

Lin

[Ian]

Yes. As I understand it, not dreaming while asleep is exactly equivalent to not thinking while awake.

[mat black]

The only time there would be a true waking state is if the discriminating mind were dropped. Then all states are no states, and there is nothing that needs to be manifest, but is manifest just for the sake that there are those who still hold onto views.

 

Oooooo..........wonderful use of words.

Edited May 22, 2008 by mat black

[dao zhen]

What is the dream state?

 

From the Taoism Doctrine we find the explanation of the Po suppressing the Hun.

 

Hun is a relation to our Soul, and resides in the Liver Sphere.

 

Po is a relation to the Jing, and resides in the Lung Sphere.

 

The Po suppresses the Hun during sleep, the Hun wanders around, and dreams are a result.

 

Hun sponsors life.

 

Po sponsors death.

 

Innate Nature is an Original Owner of the house - Hun -

 

Disposition is like a thief that takes over the house and holds the original owner captive - Po -

 

How to free the Innate Nature and transform the Disposition?

 

Most think of the act of "meditation" as a posture when we cross the legs and sit without moving.

 

This is usually the starting point of meditation practice, and for a very good reason.

 

This is the most beneficial posture to discipline the heart.

 

If the heart is not disciplined, then if one were to try and practice in the "sleeping" posture on the back,

they would just drift off into "ordinary" sleep and loose consciousness.

 

Cleanse the Heart / Self Discipline / Laying the Foundation

 

Cleanse the Heart Mind of all Deluded Thoughts

 

When the Heart Mind is clean and empty enough, Qi will come and naturally reside in this empty place.

 

So it is generally taught, one uses the laying posture once the heart is disciplined,

and also the meridian network has become opened, and Qi has been cultivated to some level.

 

I close the eyes, and sleep; journey into the dream realm.

 

I open the eyes and awaken from sleep; journey in the waking realm.

 

The act of waking / The act of sleeping.

 

Going back and forth,

one depends upon the other for their relative existence.

 

What if we were to "awaken" from this?

 

The Great Awakening.........

 

Change the defiled Ego into Wisdom.

 

Such Wisdom can embody the equality of everything.

 

Undifferentiated State.

 

Everything is myself........

 

Myself is everything.......

 

No discrimination.....

[sheng zhen]

Here is someone who teaches shui gong: http://www.qigong-daoyuan-engl.net/shui_engl.htm

 

Seems to be a practice that opens the microcosmic orbit without imagination according to the little information on this site. Sounds interesting.

[sheng zhen]

What is the dream state?

 

From the Taoism Doctrine we find the explanation of the Po suppressing the Hun.

 

Hun is a relation to our Soul, and resides in the Liver Sphere.

 

Po is a relation to the Jing, and resides in the Lung Sphere.

 

The Po suppresses the Hun during sleep, the Hun wanders around, and dreams are a result.

Dao Zhen, I am a little confused about all the new taoist vocabularity Im learning and hope you want to elaborate on a few things. You say Hun is related to soul, but isnt shen also related to soul?

 

What is the differens between Hun and Shen?

 

I saw somewere that Hun and Po is like west and east, and Shen and Jing is like south and north. Is the difference that Hun can be explained as "horisontal consciousnes", that which deals with everyday life, and shen explained as "vertical consciousness", that which deals with spirituality?

 

One more thing I hope you want to answer. It sounds like Po is something we dont want to give power. You explain it as a thief taking over Hun's house. Do we want Hun to be in power at all times in daoist practices or do we let Po take over in a natural way to balance things out?

[dao zhen]

[sheng zhen]

Theory is Theory.

 

Practice is Practice.

 

With real Practice, you will gain experience.

 

Experience will lead to Knowledge and Wisdom.

Thanks a lot Dao Zhen! I understand more of what Hun and Po is now.

 

You are right of cource, theory can lead us astray, and leave us confused But as we practice we need to be accompanied with theroy to recognize what we experience. We shouldnt need to reinvent the wheel everytime, or to make up our own words to what we experience. Only those that make their own religion or new methods to sell makes up new words, haha.

 

But practice comes first! Not the other way around. Too many people do it the other way around, I understand why you make that point

[YMWong]

For those interested I have scanned and uploaded the translation to Chen Yinxi's Shuigong text here:

 

 

 

 

 

 

YM

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[dao zhen]

For those interested I have scanned and uploaded the translation to Chen Yinxi's Shuigong text here:

 

Thank you very much for this contribution.

 

Wondeful truth from the ancients.......

 

I wish the Tao Bums could have an online cannon,

so students could browse the ancient texts.

 

It would be good for all of us students of Tao.

 

With my best regards, Dao Zhen

[sheng zhen]

For those interested I have scanned and uploaded the translation to Chen Yinxi's Shuigong text here:

Wow, thanks a lot YMWong!

 

I was planning to contact the email adress, that you gave me in the other thread, today.

 

Yes Dao Zhen, great idea, a taoist canon here on taobums would be great!!

[mat black]

I wish the Tao Bums could have an online cannon,

so students could browse the ancient texts.

 

Here's one, the scripture of forty nine chapters

http://www.prisonvegetarianproject.org/pri...an-passages.pdf

 

There was a site with more texts by the Jade Emporer and others, but i can't find it at the moment.

[Guest allan]

[neidan practitioner]

For those interested I have scanned and uploaded the translation to Chen Yinxi's Shuigong text here:

Thanks for posting that!

[neidan practitioner]

Here's one, the scripture of forty nine chapters

http://www.prisonvegetarianproject.org/pri...an-passages.pdf

There was a site with more texts by the Jade Emporer and others, but i can't find it at the moment.

Was it this site?

Link: Taoist Resource

It contains many translated articles by the Jade Empror, and others, including the scripture of forty

nine chapters that you posted the other link to.

[mat black]

Was it this site?

Link: Taoist Resource

It contains many translated articles by the Jade Empror, and others, including the scripture of forty

nine chapters that you posted the other link to.

 

Yep that's the one - great.

[gendao]

Shen is often termed = Red Phoenix, Cinnabar, Fire

Very interesting, I wonder if this means that Max's Maoshan RP is a form of shen gong?

[sheng zhen]

Found some more on sleeping practices. This link also contains the tree practice from Wang Liping.

 

I read the shuigong text you gave us YMWong. Thanks a lot! It seems shuigong is meditative practice or visualization done lying down. Nothing like the Tibetian Dream Yoga or Lucid Dreaming.

[Franklin]

For those interested I have scanned and uploaded the translation to Chen Yinxi's Shuigong text here:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

thanks for posting this

 

i just found this topic...

 

would anyone have this page

 

it seems to be missing from imageshack

shuigong7

 

thanks

franklin