More Unpopular Opinions

[liminal_luke]

,,,

Edited March 15 by liminal_luke

[silent thunder]

11 hours ago, Bindi said:

This is your opinion garnered from literature or discussion, not your experience, so like your first assumption you may be entirely correct or you may have missed the mark entirely. 

I'll hold the mirror up to your projection/assumption of liminal's description of his experience.

[old3bob]

7 hours ago, Bindi said:

I find much of the general information about kundalini and the three main nadi’s to be worthwhile, but as you yourself said, they don’t agree on everything, and I’m certainly not going to believe one teaching over another until I have a very good reason to side with any particular opinion. In the meantime, post as much as you please from Saivite schools and sects, I’m not going to, after all, this thread is titled unpopular opinions, not popular scripture isn’t it? 

 

 

nor btw is it titled Kundalini ponderings,  but since we are mostly informal at the site some morphing on or to subjects is not uncommon among members.  I'd also say that one could in an academic or general reference pointer like way mention various schools and its teachings but unless they had approval from a school/teacher to get into conveying certain details doing so would be un-kosher imo and in many others.

Edited March 15 by old3bob

[S:C]

Just an opinion while speaking to a friend: 

 

life tasks should be looked at like through the emotional ‘wuxing’ model as a task where one has still troubled emotions burried, triggered or stirred and it should be acted upon this and not regarding rational outcome. 
 

E.g. if fear is a recurring problem, decisions shouldn’t be based on safety issues, money, insurance and personal flimsies, but on working through the emotional issue.
 

(I’m not sure if I really own this opinion, but the image seemed promising yet chaotic and irrational.)

Edited March 16 by S:C

[Maddie]

Here's an unpopular opinion, no one gets a cookie! :-(

[doc benway]

A potentially unpopular opinion - 

There has never been, nor will there ever be, any separation in any sense between wuji, taiji, and their limitless manifestations.

All such distinctions are inaccurate yet useful for purposes of analysis and discussion.

 

[Taomeow]

42 minutes ago, steve said:

A potentially unpopular opinion - 

There has never been, nor will there ever be, any separation in any sense between wuji, taiji, and their limitless manifestations.

All such distinctions are inaccurate yet useful for purposes of analysis and discussion.

 

 

I own a vintage scarf with the map of Paris printed on it.

If there was no difference between the map and the territory, the Eiffel Tower would be poking me in the neck. 

[liminal_luke]

57 minutes ago, steve said:

A potentially unpopular opinion - 

 

 

Apech predicted Steve might unseat me as winner of this season´s unpopular opinion award  At the time, I´ll admit, I was skeptical -- but I´m starting to come around.

Edited March 15 by liminal_luke

[Apech]

1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

 

Apech predicted Steve might unseat me as winner of this season´s unpopular opinion award  At the time, I´ll admit, I was skeptical -- but I´m starting to come around.

You wish!

[Nungali]

9 hours ago, Apech said:

 

That must be a first - a Gilbert and Sullivan quote on DBs.!

 

 

My childhood household had a selection of their LP records .

 

I spared you the longer version   

[Nungali]

... actually , its not the first .  many years ago I posted  a quote from the Mikado  followed by a you tube   of three gay guys  doing a version of 'Three Little Maids from School are We . "

 

 

.

Edited March 15 by Nungali

[Nungali]

Anyway , back to the kundalini .

 

Its not a metaphor at all , we all actually have a big snake curled up inside us  . It masquerades  as part of the large intestine so as to hide during x-rays .

 

The correct yogic procedure to activate it is to calmly sit in lotus , while holding a live rat with your teeth .

 

Now .... come on !   Who is gonna say I have no experience and read that one in a book ?

[Taomeow]

11 minutes ago, Nungali said:

Anyway , back to the kundalini .

 

Its not a metaphor at all , we all actually have a big snake curled up inside us  . It masquerades  as part of the large intestine so as to hide during x-rays .

 

The correct yogic procedure to activate it is to calmly sit in lotus , while holding a live rat with your teeth .

 

Now .... come on !   Who is gonna say I have no experience and read that one in a book ?

 

This makes total sense.  If you don't hold a live rat in your teeth, the kundalini snake will have no good reason to rush upward.  (That's why most practitioners fail to awaken it.  Masters who know this secret guard it closely.)  And if you don 't sit in lotus, you won't have a legit reason to claim spiritual practice.  But in reality, the snake will rush upward to get the rat even if you sit in any other upright position for a while.  

 

   

[old3bob]

will a cleaned up dead rat work as well?  (the fat one that stole all of Maddie's cookies)

 

Btw and FYI those rats down-under might be as big as a cat and a lot meaner....

Edited March 15 by old3bob

[liminal_luke]

4 hours ago, steve said:

A potentially unpopular opinion - 

There has never been, nor will there ever be, any separation in any sense between wuji, taiji, and their limitless manifestations.

All such distinctions are inaccurate yet useful for purposes of analysis and discussion.

 

 

The manifest and unmanifest world -- two great tastes that taste great together.

 

 

[Mark Foote]

I think about these things a lot... if the cat brings me a rat, I will be sure to place it between my teeth, in hopes that the Jabberwocky will pass go and proceed directly to community chest.

 

But seriously.  

 

Some voodoo fun from the Zen tradition:

 

In the Yagyu-ryu (a school of swordsmanship), there is a secret teaching called “Seikosui”. Yagyu Toshinaga, a master of the Yagyu-ryu, taught that it was especially important to concentrate vital energy and power in the front of the body around the navel and at the back of the body in the koshi (pelvic) area when taking a stance. In other words, he means to fill the whole body with spiritual energy. In his “Nikon no Shimei” (“Mission of Japan”), Hida Haramitsu writes:

 

“The strength of the hara alone is insufficient, the strength of the koshi alone is not sufficient, either. We should balance the power of the hara and the koshi and maintain equilibrium of the seated body by bringing the center of the body’s weight in line with the center of the triangular base of the seated body.”

 

… we should expand the area ranging from the coccyx to the area right behind the navel in such a way as to push out the lower abdomen, while at the same time contracting the muscles of the anus.

 

… It may be the least trouble to say as a general precaution that strength should be allowed to come to fullness naturally as one becomes proficient in sitting. We should sit so that our energy increases of itself and brims over instead of putting physical pressure on the lower abdomen by force.

 

(“An Introduction to Zen Training: A Translation of Sanzen Nyumon”, Omori Sogen, tr. Dogen Hosokawa and Roy Yoshimoto, Tuttle Publishing, pg 59, parentheticals added)

 

I believe in Gautama's teaching, the "brims over" described above is a feeling that belongs to the second concentration:

 

… imagine a pool with a spring, but no water-inlet on the east side or the west side or on the north or on the south, and suppose the (rain-) deva supply not proper rains from time to time–cool waters would still well up from that pool, and that pool would be steeped, drenched, filled and suffused with the cold water so that not a drop but would be pervaded by the cold water; in just the same way… (one) steeps (their) body with zest and ease…

 

(AN III 25-28, Pali Text Society Vol. III p 18-19)

 

 

Wait for it...
 

 

 

 

 

Edited March 15 by Mark Foote

[doc benway]

4 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

I own a vintage scarf with the map of Paris printed on it.

If there was no difference between the map and the territory, the Eiffel Tower would be poking me in the neck. 

 

I once read of a koan in which the master demanded the pupil pull the Eiffel Tower [sic] out of their pocket! The pupil was enlightened on the spot.

[Taomeow]

1 hour ago, steve said:

 

I once read of a koan in which the master demanded the pupil pull the Eiffel Tower [sic] out of their pocket! The pupil was enlightened on the spot.

 

Thanks for the tip.  I'll put that Paris scarf in my pocket, pull it out, see what happens.  Please stay tuned.    

[Bindi]

14 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

 

You seem to think that my post about the central channel amounts to nothing more than parroting the views of others and that I have no direct experience of what I speak.  I suspect that the larger Bum community won´t have much to say about your opinion one way or the other, but, speaking personally, I find it deeply unpopular.

I have no doubt that you place attention on ‘the central channel’, and I’m more than willing to believe that it is calming.  But it’s true I would have a hard time believing you were drawn to this particular practice because you intuited that the subtle central channel existed, and independently of all other sources you chose to place your attention there. If I’m wrong in the above assumptions, my apologies. 
 

I also understand that my post made you feel bad, but I was responding to your (I believe dangerous) over-simplification of a very complex system, based on your view that nondual realisation is equivalent to kundalini activation. 
 

 

[Bindi]

6 hours ago, Nungali said:

Anyway , back to the kundalini .

 

Its not a metaphor at all , we all actually have a big snake curled up inside us  . It masquerades  as part of the large intestine so as to hide during x-rays .

 

The correct yogic procedure to activate it is to calmly sit in lotus , while holding a live rat with your teeth .

 

Now .... come on !   Who is gonna say I have no experience and read that one in a book ?

Isn’t this a bit of a straw man argument? You create a scenario that I never said and proceed to ridicule the entire concept. I remember I was first ridiculed by you when I first complained about @Jeff’s energy intrusions on me many years ago, I recall other people copied you then as well. 

[idiot_stimpy]

56 minutes ago, Bindi said:

...that nondual realisation is equivalent to kundalini activation. 

 

This would be an interesting thread on its own. 

[stirling]

On 3/13/2024 at 4:49 PM, Mark Foote said:

Let's get SO unpopular!
 

As (one) dwells in body contemplating body, ardent… that desire to do, that is in body, is abandoned. By the abandoning of desire to do, the Deathless is realized. So with feelings… mind… mental states… that desire to do, that is in mind-states, is abandoned. By the abandoning of the desire to do, the Deathless is realized.
 

(SN V 182, Pali Text Society V p 159)

 

Let's go back to the beginning:

 

Quote

 

In Buddhism, the Four Noble Truths (Sanskrit: चतुरार्यसत्यानि, romanized: caturāryasatyāni; Pali: caturāriyasaccāni; "The Four Arya Satya") are "the truths of the Noble Ones", the truths or realities for the "spiritually worthy ones".

 

The truths are:

dukkha ('not being at ease', "suffering,"[note 1] from dush-stha, "standing unstable,") is an innate characteristic of the perpetual cycle (samsara, lit. 'wandering') of grasping at things, ideas and habits;

 

samudaya (origin, arising, combination; "cause"): there is dukkha (unease, disbalance) when there is, or it arises simultaneously with, taṇhā ("craving," "desire" or "attachment," lit. 'thirst').

 

nirodha (cessation, ending, confinement): dukkha can be ended or contained by the confinement or letting go of this taṇhā;

 

marga (path, Noble Eightfold Path) is the path leading to the confinement of tanha and dukkha.

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Noble_Truths

 

What we have here is the simplest expression of the Buddhist (or even (apparently unpopular) "non-dual") path.

 

What is nirodha (cessation) the end of suffering? It isn't something difficult, impossible to understand, or unobtainable... it is fact familiar to everyone. What is it? It is emptiness, which is not some unobtainable, multi-lifetime goal, but instead something we all experience many times a day, though not in full realization. It isn't "dwelling", "contemplating", "desiring", or "abandoning". It doesn't require any tricks, difficult or ornate technical feats, or years long practices, it can be seen and pointed out by any suitable teacher. 

 

Any time you have been staring at a beautiful vista and your mind went quiet you have experienced it. How do you know if you are, or have experienced it? Ask yourself if there was suffering, or "self" in the moment of your perception, or was there just a simple joy and great stillness. 

 

How do you stop smoking? You stop putting cigarettes in your mouth. How do you stop dukka (suffering)? Let go of your craving, desire and attachment - learn to cultivate and rest in cessation.

[Bindi]

1 hour ago, stirling said:

 

Let's go back to the beginning:

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Noble_Truths

 

What we have here is the simplest expression of the Buddhist (or even (apparently unpopular) "non-dual") path.

 

Either you don’t understand or you’re being snide about non-duality being “apparently unpopular” since non-duality has the most powerful lobby group on this forum and is of course the most popular opinion hands down. Would it be so hard to just be honest and direct? 

 

1 hour ago, stirling said:

 

What is nirodha (cessation) the end of suffering? It isn't something difficult, impossible to understand, or unobtainable... it is fact familiar to everyone. What is it? It is emptiness, which is not some unobtainable, multi-lifetime goal, but instead something we all experience many times a day, though not in full realization. It isn't "dwelling", "contemplating", "desiring", or "abandoning". It doesn't require any tricks, difficult or ornate technical feats, or years long practices, it can be seen and pointed out by any suitable teacher. 

 

Any time you have been staring at a beautiful vista and your mind went quiet you have experienced it. How do you know if you are, or have experienced it? Ask yourself if there was suffering, or "self" in the moment of your perception, or was there just a simple joy and great stillness. 

 

How do you stop smoking? You stop putting cigarettes in your mouth. How do you stop dukka (suffering)? Let go of your craving, desire and attachment - learn to cultivate and rest in cessation.

 

[Apech]

Dear Friends,

 

I sense a certain bad temperedness has come among us.  This thread is about unpopular opinions not unpopular people.  Let's stick to ideas and not persons.  

 

Non-duality and kundalini suffer from those most pervasive and pernicious of effects which are popularisation and commercialisation.  In the market places of the weird which we inhabit, kundalini has been devalued by being devolved to non-specific energy movements or even worse psychological effects, moods and so on.  It is questionable for instance whether the most well known exponents of kundalini raising and kundalini syndrome and the like are actually dealing with kundalini at all.  At the same time kundalini is glorified as a goddess in the more mystical among us - resulting in a completely confused view as to what it is and what it is good for.

 

Non-duality is a perfectly sound philosophical view which underpins some of both buddhadharma and vedanta.  It is useful to those practicing these schools because it allows an intellectual base which supports practice.  It is arrived at through careful examination of the nature of reality - and not surprisingly there are a number of subtly differing views which can all be classed as non-dual while not fully agreeing with each other.  It has nothing to do with the vague notions which pervade the internet these days - which are all basically monist or 'oneness' sales pitches, or the musings of people who have had 'experiences' and so on.  They should be treated as non-serious.

 

I trust my thoughts are sufficiently unpopular.

 

    

[silent thunder]