How do you stop the leakage?

[Elysium]

Excuse me for the lack of detail in the title, frankly didn't know what to put there.

 

I am just observing that there is a gargantuan amount of energy wasted via thoughts and perhaps also movements that is not needed. The latter, I am not sure, but the former, certainly.

 

Pretty sure there should be time left for mind to ruminate, or even monkey around, but 24/7? I believe thats counterproductive. But tell me if I am wrong, I am asking here for a reason. 

 

So the question arises, how do we get a laser focus? Aside from the obvious answers meditation and always trying to stay in control, can't think anything else.

[silent thunder]

When one focuses all attention onto one point, then by the nature of that focus one ignores the rest of reality.  Is this always preferable?  At all times and in all conditions?  My lineage cultivates focus and spherical awareness ^{as well as diffuse and several others...}

 

In my experience, neither the flashlight focus of the local awareness which by its nature focuses on one aspect of nature to the disregard of the rest, nor the expansive awareness of the all in all are right or wrong or preferable in all cases.  They are aspects of awareness.  A tree has many aspects, they all combine in the process of tree-ing.

 

We are awareness and all aspects of it are applicable to conditions in which they become prominent or dormant by turns.

 

The action of Dao, like Life is a bellows.

 

 

[Maddie]

4 hours ago, Elysium said:

Excuse me for the lack of detail in the title, frankly didn't know what to put there.

 

I am just observing that there is a gargantuan amount of energy wasted via thoughts and perhaps also movements that is not needed. The latter, I am not sure, but the former, certainly.

 

Pretty sure there should be time left for mind to ruminate, or even monkey around, but 24/7? I believe thats counterproductive. But tell me if I am wrong, I am asking here for a reason. 

 

So the question arises, how do we get a laser focus? Aside from the obvious answers meditation and always trying to stay in control, can't think anything else.

 

The primary thing in TCM that is said to weaken the spleen qi is over thinking. 

[Cobie]

4 hours ago, Elysium said:

… how do we get a laser focus? …

…
15. The common people see things clearly; 
16. I alone am in the dark. 
17. The common people discriminate and make fine distinctions; 
18. I alone am muddled and confused. 
…
21. The masses all have their reasons [for acting]; 
22. I alone am stupid and obstinate like a rustic. 
23. But my desires alone differ from those of others— 
24. For I value drawing sustenance from the Mother.

DDJ Ch. 20 (Henricks, MWD) 

 

 

Edited March 19 by Cobie

[blue eyed snake]

5 hours ago, Elysium said:

I am just observing that there is a gargantuan amount of energy wasted via thoughts

 

yes, also via emotions and desires ( the latter being a subset of emotions i suppose)

[Nungali]

11 hours ago, Elysium said:

Excuse me for the lack of detail in the title, frankly didn't know what to put there.

 

I am just observing that there is a gargantuan amount of energy wasted via thoughts and perhaps also movements that is not needed. The latter, I am not sure, but the former, certainly.

 

Pretty sure there should be time left for mind to ruminate, or even monkey around, but 24/7? I believe thats counterproductive. But tell me if I am wrong, I am asking here for a reason. 

 

So the question arises, how do we get a laser focus? Aside from the obvious answers meditation and always trying to stay in control, can't think anything else.

 

 

From a 'magical perspective ' on it , you have crossed the first hurdle ;  realising how much 'random thought' and lack of mental focus is going on .   here is an exercise to realise that - although you already have  -

 

Sit comfortably in a calm environment , set up to  minimize distractions . Think of one object to visualise and concentrate on . Have a paper and pen at hand . Set a timer for a short  amount of time .  Think of the one object and each time you loose that , make a mark on the paper and go back to thinking only of that object .  Continue until timer goes off . Total up the marks .

 

The next exercise is  how to use all that 'wasted energy'   - the proclivity for the mind to 'wander '   ( seek and expand , actually ) within the object , or within the focus the mind holds .

 

Success in this meditation can encompass both  aspects  of  ' vajra like '  directed focus   (  you like that one ? I just made it up    )   while 'being open'  to 'the all'  that the mind seeks   * .   Its one way of accessing the 'internal genius'   ( we all got one )  .

 

*  ie .  'Focus and spherical awareness  .  I also noticed the need to have both of these  in martial arts,  as a well as magick , for example especially in 'randori  ( armed or unarmed and being  attacked by multiple attackers who are  armed  ) .

[Nungali]

I hope I made the distinction clear above ;

 

for the wasted mental energy , the meditations

 

for the wasted physical energy / movement , the martial arts stuff .

[Elysium]

9 hours ago, blue eyed snake said:

yes, also via emotions and desires ( the latter being a subset of emotions i suppose)

I am guessing there is a fine line where one isn't attaching to these emotions unless willingly choosing to, and not a robot devoid of emotion. Doesn't seem easy but doable.

 

3 hours ago, Nungali said:

Sit comfortably in a calm environment , set up to  minimize distractions . Think of one object to visualise and concentrate on . Have a paper and pen at hand . Set a timer for a short  amount of time .  Think of the one object and each time you loose that , make a mark on the paper and go back to thinking only of that object .  Continue until timer goes off . Total up the marks .

This is the current excersise I am doing actually , saw it in Concentration by Mouni Sadhu.

 

3 hours ago, Nungali said:

Success in this meditation can encompass both  aspects  of  ' vajra like '  directed focus   (  you like that one ? I just made it up    )   while 'being open'  to 'the all'  that the mind seeks   * .   Its one way of accessing the 'internal genius'   ( we all got one )  .

Could you expand on this a little?

[Kojiro]

interesting topic. We have many energy leakeages, surely one important is the overthinking 24/7 from one random thought to another random thought. Things got worse if there are also many negative emotions involved, worries, fears, anger, and the like, as those are even worse and increase the amount of energy wasted for nothing. So at first try maybe to stop these negative emotions and thoughts, it can be a good beginning.

 

Also try not to do useless repetitive movements like when fidgeting or not tensing muscles when not using them

[idiot_stimpy]

17 hours ago, Elysium said:

...and always trying to stay in control, can't think anything else.

 

The Ego wants control, relax, you cannot control what is uncontrollable. Awareness just is, always is, right now and it moves constantly. If you try to stop the moving from moving you will get a headache. Awareness effortlessly existing is a constant, but its contents are constantly moving.

 

Quote

When you look within and observe, You will come to see yourself, Yet there is nothing there to see. This ‘seeing’ is itself recognition. It is this we call the view. – Yeshe Tsogyal

 

[blue eyed snake]

3 hours ago, Elysium said:

I am guessing there is a fine line where one isn't attaching to these emotions unless willingly choosing to, and not a robot devoid of emotion. Doesn't seem easy but doable.

 

some time ago i read the story of the empty boat, maybe that's useful.

 

 

Quote

If a man is crossing a river
And an empty boat collides with his own skiff,
Even though he be a bad-tempered man
He will not become very angry.
But if he sees a man in the boat,
He will shout at him to steer clear.
If the shout is not heard, he will shout again,
And yet again, and begin cursing.
And all because there is somebody in the boat.
Yet if the boat were empty.
He would not be shouting, and not angry.

 

 

there is a bit more about it though, like these parables always seem to be layered

 

https://www.stillnessspeaks.com/empty-boat-chuang-tzu-thomas-merton/

[Elysium]

1 hour ago, idiot_stimpy said:

The Ego wants control, relax, you cannot control what is uncontrollable.

I should have made myself more clear. I am simply lost in thought many times a day. I have to ask how many hours I am awake in a day in first place.

 

By control, I mean aware of whats going on at the very least. 

 

 

46 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

there is a bit more about it though, like these parables always seem to be layered

 

https://www.stillnessspeaks.com/empty-boat-chuang-tzu-thomas-merton

This has to be the only poem so far that I can understand cleanly 😁 thanks for the link!

[Neirong]

20 hours ago, Elysium said:

Pretty sure there should be time left for mind to ruminate, or even monkey around, but 24/7? I believe thats counterproductive. But tell me if I am wrong, I am asking here for a reason. 

 

So the question arises, how do we get a laser focus?

Become Magus, laser focus is probably among the very first things we are training inside the tradition.
 

20 hours ago, Elysium said:

Aside from the obvious answers meditation and always trying to stay in control, can't think anything else.

 

Always trying to stay in control won't work. The place where you want to be is a permanent condition, and the way you want to achieve it is through temporary means.

Evolving to a stage where you don't need to meditate or do anything, to have full clarity and full control over your thoughts and mind. Where it becomes the norm and baseline of existence rather than some momentary enlightenment achieved briefly after 168 hours of continuous effort during a solitary retreat in the depths of the mountains.

[Nungali]

9 hours ago, Elysium said:

I am guessing there is a fine line where one isn't attaching to these emotions unless willingly choosing to, and not a robot devoid of emotion. Doesn't seem easy but doable.

 

This is the current excersise I am doing actually , saw it in Concentration by Mouni Sadhu.

 

Could you expand on this a little?

 

The second exercise is to let the mind wander, but within the subject matter, for example , if the object of concentration is a lit candle let the mind think whatever it wants about it ,  how it is made, what it is made from,  what is the process that gives off its light , why does it give off heat , how can these things be used  etc.  If you  go 'off track'  eg .   The candle does give off enough light to see around the room , but not enough to be able to do anything in the kitchen , like cooking . Maybe I should cook something now, I am pretty hungry , or maybe I should wait until dinner time , or I could go out and get a take-away .

 

Either by will , or discipline   keep the focus .  By discipline I mean a 'shock' to the system -  here there is no Abbot to smack you across the back with a cane , you have to do it yourself .  A rubber band worn on the wrist can do it , instead of a mark on paper  each time you  'break' concentration .  The band can be 'pinged' on the inside of the wrist .

 

Conversely , the mind should be rewarded  for doing its job properly  ( ie , searching and expanding through the field of acknowledge , seeking pathways and correlations   within the field of focus ) .

 

Then there is the next stage  which is about 'fields' of knowledge , 'correlations' / 'signatures  .... a type of 'cramming' stage . next comes 'filing systems '  for better cross reference and retrieval of information    eg  'memory theater ' , 'method of loci'   etc .

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Giulio_Camillo

 

https://www.australiangeographic.com.au/topics/history-culture/2016/09/how-oral-cultures-memorise-so-much-information/

 

https://www.monash.edu/medicine/news/latest/2021-articles/new-study-finds-ancient-australian-aboriginal-memory-tool-superior-to-memory-palace-learning-among-medical-students

[Nungali]

7 hours ago, Kojiro said:

interesting topic. We have many energy leakeages, surely one important is the overthinking 24/7 from one random thought to another random thought. Things got worse if there are also many negative emotions involved, worries, fears, anger, and the like, as those are even worse and increase the amount of energy wasted for nothing. So at first try maybe to stop these negative emotions and thoughts, it can be a good beginning.

 

Also try not to do useless repetitive movements like when fidgeting or not tensing muscles when not using them

 

 So .....

 

just dont do that stuff .

 

 

 

I think our OP seeks some techniques . 

 

Like how to deal  with  ' negative emotions , worries, fears, anger, '  etc . ... not just 'dont do it ' .

[Nungali]

7 hours ago, idiot_stimpy said:

 

The Ego wants control, relax, you cannot control what is uncontrollable. Awareness just is, always is, right now and it moves constantly. If you try to stop the moving from moving you will get a headache. Awareness effortlessly existing is a constant, but its contents are constantly moving.

 

 

 

You can learn to control what you thought was uncontrollable .

 

We must understand our limits though , dont jump off a cliff and try to control gravity ( with no assistant technology ) .

 

Then again a person's limits may be beyond what they have been led to believe .

[Kojiro]

3 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

 So .....

 

just dont do that stuff .

 

 

 

I think our OP seeks some techniques . 

 

Like how to deal  with  ' negative emotions , worries, fears, anger, '  etc . ... not just 'dont do it ' .

my suggestion is that he focuses on trying to stop negative emotions at first, this alone can save a lot of energy for himself and improve the situation. 

[Nungali]

6 hours ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

some time ago i read the story of the empty boat, maybe that's useful.

 

 

 

 

there is a bit more about it though, like these parables always seem to be layered

 

https://www.stillnessspeaks.com/empty-boat-chuang-tzu-thomas-merton/

 

 

Me :   "  What idiot left their boat untied  and floating down the river like this  !   " 

[Nungali]

4 minutes ago, Kojiro said:

my suggestion is that he focuses on trying to stop negative emotions at first, this alone can save a lot of energy for himself and improve the situation. 

 

 

Without a 'how' offered  ... this is,  again ,   just a  'do it '.

[Mark Foote]

On 3/18/2024 at 12:29 PM, Elysium said:

Excuse me for the lack of detail in the title, frankly didn't know what to put there.

 

I am just observing that there is a gargantuan amount of energy wasted via thoughts and perhaps also movements that is not needed. The latter, I am not sure, but the former, certainly.

 

Pretty sure there should be time left for mind to ruminate, or even monkey around, but 24/7? I believe thats counterproductive. But tell me if I am wrong, I am asking here for a reason. 

 

So the question arises, how do we get a laser focus? Aside from the obvious answers meditation and always trying to stay in control, can't think anything else.
 

 

 

So, when you practice zazen, your mind should be concentrated in your breathing and this kind of activity is the fundamental activity of the universal being. If so, how you should use your mind is quite clear. Without this experience, or this practice, it is impossible to attain the absolute freedom.
 

(“Thursday Morning Lectures”, November 4th 1965, Los Altos; emphasis added)

 

 

Suzuki doesn't explain, but I do, here.  In brief:

 

The mind is “concentrated in the breathing” when the movement of breath necessitates the placement of attention. If the presence of mind continues the placement of attention by the movement of breath, then the role of the mind is clear–that’s the way I read the transcript.

 

... When the location of attention can shift anywhere in the body as a function of the movement of breath, and the activity of the body in inhalation and exhalation follows solely from the location of attention, there is a feeling of freedom.

 

 

[dwai]

On 3/18/2024 at 2:29 PM, Elysium said:

So the question arises, how do we get a laser focus? Aside from the obvious answers meditation and always trying to stay in control, can't think anything else.

Maybe you should be asking, "How do we let all those things that distract us  - mental noise, go?"

We cling to those things - thoughts/emotions/feelings because they give us a counterpoint to us. By simply staying as that one who knows the noisy aspect of the mind, the focused aspect of the mind, the still aspect of the mind, and not chasing after these aspects - it will develop a deep relaxation. That relaxation (release). 

Edited March 28 by dwai

[Dedicated]

I find turning my thoughts from what I don't want to what I do want shifts the gear from becoming drained to feeling wholesome. It's not always as easy as said, but a good place to start