Ren acupoints, Daoist Breathing, and Belly-Dancing

[Trunk]

Inspired by the video below, I’ve made some effective strides on ren and the whole abdominal region.  She instructs along the line of belly dancing … I modify the breathing towards a more Daoist orientation.

 

The tip:

1. Put your finger on any acupoint (indendation) along the abdominal section of ren (below the sternum and above the pubic bone).  Whether you place your finger firmly, lightly, or not quite touching at all - will emphasize physical ~ subtle engagement (all good).

 

2. Do a slow smooth inhale ~ exhale from the center at finger-level.  Basically, doing dan tien breathing at the level of the finger.  Slowly, so that the layers of tissues gently separate during the (inhale oops!) exhale, often including a gentle tug-pull from the inside at the acupoint.  Just 1 to several breaths, then…

 

3. Next acupoint, repeat 1&2.  All up n’ down.

 

I find that this extremely simple tip:

- Helps to locate areas of the abdomen that are … unfamiliar, inarticulate, physically, and getting the sensitivity and muscular articulation online.

- extraordinarily effective in activating acupoints along ren 

- overlaps + complements other kinds of deep abdominal work

 

- Trunk

 

 

 

 

[Trunk]

This method is highlighting a difference for me …

 

You know when a method just works.

 

vs doing something for years that kinda works and almost but and if I just worked harder and had better character and I just have to practice this for the rest of my life and it’ll never be perfect???  … but I really should do it and it’s the right thing? and oh poor me, lol

 

and then there’s things like the above method.

I wake up in the morning, or I’m lounging on the couch and I just notice that I’m breathing with a depth and ease that is remarkable.

or I go to do morning standing and the flows that this would supposedly promote are just flowing, like *wow*, not endless struggle for partial frustrating results and abraded self esteem … just, results, right away - and in the days following practice.

 

This is one of those.

and super simple

 

p.s.

And how soon did I start to feel results with this method?

The first time I tried it, in session, the first point, within a few breaths.

So far, it’s been like that.

 

… and there’s been a recognizable arc of progressive changes.

curious to see how this plays out

 

.. and - Has it produced a sense of tension?, struggle?

No.

On the contrary, I find it emotionally nourishing (something about the acupoints and local alchemy), and soothing.

[liminal_luke]

I haven´t tried this yet but I think I´ll give it a go.  Sounds very much like Chi Nei Tsang.  A variation that occurs to me: breathing into points just outside the circumference of the navel.  There´s an idea in Chi Nei Tsang that these points correspond to a conical area that expands outward from the point.  Hmmm...hard to explain with words.  So the point right above the navel would reflect to the solar plexus and heart.  The point above the navel to the right would reflect to the upper right side of the abdomen and liver, etc. 

 

I sometimes work my way around the navel holding a finger steady at each of 8 points and making small circles, a move known in Chi Nei Tsang as "opening the wind gates." 

Edited April 8 by liminal_luke

[Trunk]

51 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

.. very much like Chi Nei Tsang.  .. points just outside the circumference of the navel.  There´s an idea in Chi Nei Tsang that these points correspond to a conical area that expands outward from the point.  Hmmm...hard to explain with words.  So the point right above the navel would reflect to the solar plexus and heart.  The point above the navel to the right would reflect to the upper right side of the abdomen and liver, etc. 

 

I sometimes work my way around the navel holding a finger steady at each of 8 points and making small circles, a move known in Chi Nei Tsang as "opening the wind gates." 

 

Very cool.

[Bhathen]

5 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

I haven´t tried this yet but I think I´ll give it a go.  Sounds very much like Chi Nei Tsang.  A variation that occurs to me: breathing into points just outside the circumference of the navel.  There´s an idea in Chi Nei Tsang that these points correspond to a conical area that expands outward from the point.  Hmmm...hard to explain with words.  So the point right above the navel would reflect to the solar plexus and heart.  The point above the navel to the right would reflect to the upper right side of the abdomen and liver, etc. 

 

I sometimes work my way around the navel holding a finger steady at each of 8 points and making small circles, a move known in Chi Nei Tsang as "opening the wind gates." 

 

Your post reminds me of the points in this paper. The exercise goes around the points near the navel and pulled in a certain direction. Are they similar points?

 

https://www.msjonline.org/index.php/ijrms/article/download/4704/3861/18775

[liminal_luke]

1 hour ago, Bhathen said:

 

Your post reminds me of the points in this paper. The exercise goes around the points near the navel and pulled in a certain direction. Are they similar points?

 

https://www.msjonline.org/index.php/ijrms/article/download/4704/3861/18775

 

From some of the pictures, I think so yes -- they are similar points.  The points I´m referring to are not inside the navel but just outside the rim.  From a chi nei tsang point of view, I don´t think it´s so critical to get an exact point location using anatomical landmarks.  Better to feel around and find the areas that seem tight or tender or otherwise capture the attention, and experiment to see what happens when the awareness and breath free up sensation in that area.  Everyone is different.  

 

Another potentially potent area to work with using this same technique is the area directly underneath the ribcage.  In polarity therapy there´s a similar technique where you start in the center of the abdomen just below the sternum and slowly work releasing tissues to either side just under the rib cage, first one side and then the other.  I once received a session where the therapist spent the better part of an hour slowly releasing this area.  It was a revelation.

Edited April 9 by liminal_luke

[Trunk]

@liminal_luke, I’ve been going straight down ren, and so‘ve included the navel itself as an (exceptionally special) acupoint.  I’ve seen a variety of people do things with their bellies, and I’m always impressed.  Those sorts of methods (often) just look *healthy*.

 

Historically, this has not been an easy area for me … many of us have had our smash-up-derbies of one kind or another, and I’ve had mine … I didn’t expect this practice to work so well.  It’s not like I’ve never‘ve tried methods, modalities.

- When I started this method, I had more than one spot that was painful, dumb, inarticulate etc.  This has moved through stages *really* readily.

- Currently: This practice continues to progress rapidly, has become stronger, more fluent, enjoyable.

 

The feeling of strength has a quality of soothing flexibility.

 

blabbing,

Trunk

[liminal_luke]

That sounds great.  I think pretty much everyone has plenty of abdominal tension (and those who think they don´t have more than most -- they´re just less aware).

 

In case it resonates, I´ll share another move from my chi nei tsang days.  In a workshop Gilles Marin taught a technique to "unwind" the small intestine.  You simply place your hands on either side of the navel, your own or someone else´s, and tune into subtle movement.  Allow your hands to simply follow the movement, back and forth, up and down, wherever it leads.  In my imagination, the movement is a little like playing with a ouija board, just a passive following.  

 

You´ve inspired me to play around with a little abdominal self-massage.  I could sure use it.  

[Trunk]

btw, talking about the navel 

(that’s not a lead-in that I often use, lol)

anyway,

 

My orientation is that “embryonic breathing” is a key concept.  (various practices might go in that direction).  The beginning, the physically foundational nourishment all came in through that pumping.  There are times when lung-breathing minimizes and the belly activates in a deeply integral way.  If we want to access and cultivate our most physical foundations, imho, “embryonic breathing” is an idea to have around.

[Sahaja]

to work with opening the ren, one may want to explore releasing/relaxing tension from the Tian Tu point in the upper chest as I understand this is a common sticking or blocking point for many people.  This relates to the instruction “sinking the chest” which per my understanding means releasing/relaxing of tension vertically down inside the body from that point. 

[Trunk]

On 4/15/2024 at 11:34 AM, Sahaja said:

to work with opening the ren, one may want to explore releasing/relaxing tension from the Tian Tu point in the upper chest as I understand this is a common sticking or blocking point for many people.  This relates to the instruction “sinking the chest” which per my understanding means releasing/relaxing of tension vertically down inside the body from that point. 

 

Thank you.

You've prompted my interest back into self-acupressure.

I go with "groovy freestyle" self-acupressure, where I massaged gently along a channel (which are in the grooves between muscles) and spend extra time where ever I find pain to resolve, or good stuff.  The liver channel especially made a big hit this way, as it's so helpful in resolving stagnation in the lower jiao and very convenient to massage, especially along the lower leg.

Pulling out some old pictures.

 

 

   

 

 

 

[Trunk]

It occurs to me that these two practices (below) contain an especially effective duo (in the context of well rounded etc) for addressing the typical (male) jing cultivation difficulties.

 

On 4/6/2024 at 1:05 PM, Trunk said:

Inspired by the video below, I’ve made some effective strides on ren and the whole abdominal region.  She instructs along the line of belly dancing … I modify the breathing towards a more Daoist orientation.

 

The tip:

1. Put your finger on any acupoint (indendation) along the abdominal section of ren (below the sternum and above the pubic bone + 1 just below the pubic bone).  Whether you place your finger firmly, lightly, or not quite touching at all - will emphasize physical ~ subtle engagement (all good).

 

2. Do a slow smooth inhale ~ exhale from the center at finger-level.  Basically, doing dan tien breathing at the level of the finger.  Slowly, so that the layers of tissues gently separate during the (inhale oops!) exhale, often including a gentle tug-pull from the inside at the acupoint.  Just 1 to several breaths, then…

 

3. Next acupoint, repeat 1&2.  All up n’ down.

 

I find that this extremely simple tip:

- Helps to locate areas of the abdomen that are … unfamiliar, inarticulate, physically, and getting the sensitivity and muscular articulation online.

- extraordinarily effective in activating acupoints along ren 

- overlaps + complements other kinds of deep abdominal work

 

- Trunk

 

 

 

 

 

On 4/18/2024 at 5:37 AM, Trunk said:

I go with "groovy freestyle" self-acupressure, where I massaged gently along a channel (which are in the grooves between muscles) and spend extra time where ever I find pain to resolve, or good stuff.  The liver channel especially made a big hit this way, as it's so helpful in resolving stagnation in the lower jiao and very convenient to massage, especially along the lower leg.

 

 

[Trunk]

I've been doing some review of du & ren in Deadman's Manual of Acupuncture.  If you're really into this stuff, consider buying that - or some other hard core - book on acupuncture.  Of the caliber that they use in schools.  I find it to be a valuable reference.

 

Anyway, the trajectories of ren (and du) are significantly different than is presented in pop-Taoism.

A couple of other references.

[Trunk]

regarding practices that would be considered microcosmic orbit, especially re: jing refinement ..

 

Well, the above method~s,  - for me - within the last few months …

Have brought me more healing, more towards balance than

… some other mco approaches, lol, that emphasize ‘up’ first (and include the *ideas* of balance and mco, but often works out w/ opposite results).

And it’s easy.  And I’m def still progressing w/ it.

Essential tool belt item, imho.

 

Other results?:

1. My singing voice has improved.  I’ve been listening to Al Green a lot, and I’m surprised at my improvement.  Really good articulation and sustain.

 

2. My belly is flatter; such that people ‘ve been commenting.

My diet?  I’ve been ravenous and I eat anything I want, as much as I want.  I’ve been pigging out for … weeks, if not months.

Exercise?  No changes.  Almost none, recently, honestly.

It’s just this method, very little practice time, actually -> strong ongoing results.

- and people ‘ve been commenting on my flatter stomach.

 

3. Internal arts.

Assisting in various ways, won’t belabor by detailing.

 

Ok, that’s my blab on the subject.

ciao,

Trunk

[Trunk]

“… just when I thought I’d stop talking, … pulls me back in”

 

adding Kwan Yin Mag.Qigong back …  

 

 

 

 

[Sahaja]

On 5/5/2024 at 9:20 AM, Trunk said:

“… just when I thought I’d stop talking, … pulls me back in”

 

adding Kwan Yin Mag.Qigong back …  

 

 

 

 

Left brain, right brain, whole brain…the whole brain is the right brain…not sure if that’s a double meaning for “right” but regardless - it’s cool stuff! 

[silent thunder]

On 5/5/2024 at 11:20 AM, Trunk said:

“… just when I thought I’d stop talking, … pulls me back in”

 

adding Kwan Yin Mag.Qigong back …  

Much appreciate the illustrations added to your sharings.  Exponentially more is communicated.

 

Thank you for sharing.

[Trunk]

On 4/6/2024 at 1:05 PM, Trunk said:

Inspired by the video below, ...

 

I continue to find the method that I described in the orig post simple, on-target, effective.

and include it in my list of especially effective abd methods.

[forestofclarity]

Reminds me somewhat of this:

 

 

Any thoughts? 

[Sahaja]

On 7/14/2024 at 10:39 AM, forestofemptiness said:

Any thoughts? 

The way I have learned this is to not use the muscles on the outside in reverse breathing (similar to Trunk’s original posting, I think). Shouldn’t see or feel much engagement of the outer muscles if you put your hand on your abdomen when using this technique.  Should just feel the inside tissues opening/relaxing on the out breath and closing from all directions towards a central point on the in breath. This takes a good deal of practice but once you get it interesting things start to happen, particularly on the out breath. However one needs to start by just getting comfortable with  the breathing low in the body before  trying the more fancy reverse breathing stuff. After reverse breathing is well in place comes dan tian breathing (dt opening and closing  on its own). 

[forestofclarity]

10 hours ago, Sahaja said:

The way I have learned this is to not use the muscles on the outside in reverse breathing (similar to Trunk’s original posting, I think).

 

Nice points and good descriptions. I think the idea is you start with grosser movements to get the feel, but then you refine them. This is how it is done with vase breathing and also whole breathing (where the you also expand up the back), for example. But I could be wrong-- -I've never been an "indoor student" in any martial arts. 

 

I found that breathing low tended to develop naturally when I was using my lower breath movements as a meditation focal point. I've learned a lot of different breathing techniques, but this is the first one that gives me a strong "rotating" sensation (among other things). 

 

 

Edited July 17 by forestofemptiness

[Trunk]

(too much for me right now to sort through all the variations of breathing

pls pardon my non-response to above

popping in briefly)

 

Continuing to find the ren acu breathing at various levels applicable in various methods. 

Planks, for instance, where I've blended LDT-breathing with a very easy angle of plank, such that some slack is available in the abd muscles ... in order to do qigong breathing and abd manipulation.  Anyway, doing the breathing at various pts from solar plexus on down n' back.

 

[dwai]

One “method” I use is to lie down on the back and make a qi ball between the palms (experiment with the size - softball vs soccer ball) and connect the center of the ball with the front channel. Move the ball from above the crown to the perineum (play with the physical distance between the ball and the body). Once the front channel is open and the flow is clear and tangible, connect to the back channel, and then the central channel.   
 

P.S. another interesting thing to do is compress the ball while hovering over the dantiens or specific points on the meridians, and then let it expand back to previous size. The compression followed by the subsequent expansion creates a bellows like effect and activates/clears those points. 

Edited July 31 by dwai

[forestofclarity]

4 hours ago, dwai said:

One “method”

 

Here's a question. There is a cadre of folks who claim that much (or all) of this is physical. They talk about aligning the structure, leveraging the ground, etc. I've found I can reproduce some "qi" tricks this way--- such as grounding a mobile chair into the floor. 

 

There is another cadre of folks who state that post-heavenly intention is unnecessary, and potentially distorting. They say that when properly connected, the inner energies align on their own. Wouldn't a happy medium be to adopt the physical alignments/techniques, relax and open, connect to the essence of mind, and just let it unfold? 

 

[dwai]

5 hours ago, forestofemptiness said:

 

Here's a question. There is a cadre of folks who claim that much (or all) of this is physical. They talk about aligning the structure, leveraging the ground, etc. I've found I can reproduce some "qi" tricks this way--- such as grounding a mobile chair into the floor. 

Idk about it being all/mostly physical. My experiences point to something beyond the physical. Is it still in the domain of the transactional reality? Yes. But certainly not physical. 

5 hours ago, forestofemptiness said:

 

There is another cadre of folks who state that post-heavenly intention is unnecessary, and potentially distorting. They say that when properly connected, the inner energies align on their own. Wouldn't a happy medium be to adopt the physical alignments/techniques, relax and open, connect to the essence of mind, and just let it unfold? 

 

Yes, imho it would. However,  the “relax and open, connecting to the essence of the mind” needs a triggering mechanism (for most people) initially. It’s like how we need some kind of mantra or ritual to facilitate a spiritual practice (be it lighting a candle, incense, offering flowers to a deity). Over time it becomes more natural and no effort is required.