Transgender Q&A

[Salvijus]

How about this. 

 

We don't need to be friends. But we stop slandering and name calling each other and we end this discussion in peace. 

 

Is that good enough ending to you Maddie? 

Edited May 14 by Salvijus

[Salvijus]

Those who desire peace wouldn't hesitate to accept such an offer. That's why this whole thread is so messed up. Because some of us want conflict at all cost. Who are the real trolls here I wonder... 

Edited May 14 by Salvijus

[Trunk]

~~~ admin statement ~~~

 

Agreed with both of the quoted points below.

And in *usual* (objective philosophical) threads on this site I'd stay on middle ground, resolutely.  Bedrock.

 

This thread is different.  Someone is stepping up incredibly bravely to share more intimate things about themself, to the community than ... in this moment, I can't think of any thread where any member has been so brave and vulnerable.  Ever on this site, since it's inception. 

 

@Salvijus, my view is that you are expressing sincerely, just as you are, without hidden animosity.  And you're coming from a philosophical view (that is very worth exploring, but also extreme ... and to persist in the context of this thread is rude).

Out of courtesy for the unusual dynamic of this thread: enough.  Stop posting within this thread.  Period.

If you have a major problem with a post, report it and let myself and the moderation team handle.

 

Everyone else, please leave Salvijus alone.

I get that there are people with conscious, deliberate covert hostilities, and those with subconscious hostilities.  Don't paint Salvijus as either.

 

Ok.  That's over now.

 

Onward,

Trunk

 

5 hours ago, stirling said:

 

Ah... but how many times has it been suggested? One veers into troll territory when they are unable to stop continually hammering someone else in a thread, despite that persons obvious discomfort, or inability to reconcile it in context.

 

At this point you have had as much opportunity as you could possibly require to make your point. It has been heard. It would be kind and respectful to drop it now. 

 

4 hours ago, Salvijus said:

How about this. 

 

We don't need to be friends. But we stop slandering and name calling each other and we end this discussion in peace.

 

~~~ admin out ~~~

[Maddie]

Once again getting back on topic. If anyone has questions about what its like to be trans, or how one realizes they are, or is genuinely confused about this topic and wants clarification please feel free to ask away. :-)

[Elysium]

@Maddie If you had to list one thing, what would that be on what I will write down below 👇

 

What was that one thing that held you (assuming there was one such thing) from transitioning, that you had to shed before commiting to your decision?

[surrogate corpse]

@Elysium

 

If I might answer as well: fear.

 

Many particular things held me back—things I thought or didn't think, things I knew or didn't know, things I wanted or didn't want—but underneath all of them was the same fear. The decision to transition was the decision to listen to desire rather than to fear.

 

@Tommy

 

If I might answer as well: yes and no.

 

Yes, I am happy. My life is better for transitioning. I have richer friendships and relationships. I don't wake up waiting to die. I am better to the people I love. I find meaning and joy in the things I do, rather than a flat anhedonia. I laugh, loudly and often.

 

But am I happy? I carry a tremendous sadness: the weight of 30 years of grief, long-suppressed and only now brought to the light. And I carry a tremendous anger: that grief did not just happen, it was the result of things done to me. Nor is this sadness and this anger just about me: all my friends have suffered the same; not all of them survived it. (I am lucky; I have only one dead friend.)

 

So: am I happy? I would rather say: I am on the path to happiness. I have far to go.

Edited May 14 by surrogate corpse

[liminal_luke]

What could your parents or other loved ones have done in your childhood to have made things easier gender-wise?

 

Do you appreciate it when cis-gender people put pronouns in their email signatures?  Do you think we should all be asking each other for our preferred pronouns upon meeting, or is it OK to assume that someone who looks male/female goes by he or she unless informed otherwise?

[Maddie]

1 hour ago, Elysium said:

@Maddie If you had to list one thing, what would that be on what I will write down below 👇

 

What was that one thing that held you (assuming there was one such thing) from transitioning, that you had to shed before commiting to your decision?

 

Denial lol. I had assumed it would feel more obvious to me if I were trans and assumed that everyone that was trans, that for them it had been super obvious. 

Edited May 14 by Maddie

[Maddie]

18 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

What could your parents or other loved ones have done in your childhood to have made things easier gender-wise?

 

not being the the worst. I grew up in a very religious, conservative, family in Texas. They are very judgmental and controlling. Basically the worst kind of family one could have being LGBTQ+.

 

 

18 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

Do you appreciate it when cis-gender people put pronouns in their email signatures?  Do you think we should all be asking each other for our preferred pronouns upon meeting, or is it OK to assume that someone who looks male/female goes by he or she unless informed otherwise?

 

I honestly don't care at all. Maybe this makes me a bad trans but I just assume the gender I see unless told otherwise. This is why I put so much work into transitioning. I put the burden of getting gendered correctly out in public on myself. 

Edited May 14 by Maddie

[liminal_luke]

2 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

I honestly don't care at all. Maybe this makes me a bad trans but I just assume the gender I see unless told otherwise. This is why I put some much work into transitioning. I put the burden of getting gendered correctly out in public on myself. 

 

For what it´s worth, I think it´s reassuring that not all trans people think alike, even concerning trans issues.  

[Maddie]

1 minute ago, liminal_luke said:

 

For what it´s worth, I think it´s reassuring that not all trans people think alike, even concerning trans issues.  

 

I get that. When I was a kid I used to think that every gay person was always going to be attracted to every other gay person, because yeah life works that way right? lol

[surrogate corpse]

1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

What could your parents or other loved ones have done in your childhood to have made things easier gender-wise?

 

loved me unconditionally rather than conditionally, so that i felt safe to share with them how i was feeling when puberty hit

 

~~~
 

email signatures: empty signaling

 

sharing pronouns at introduction: depends on context but default position is against

 

assuming gender: ask if you're unsure. be gracious if corrected (say sorry, correct yourself, and get it right next time; don't make a big deal of it)

[surrogate corpse]

one phenomenon i find rather interesting is that, even though i am quite "clocky" in appearance and don't dress high femme, homeless people asking me for money gender me correctly approaching 100% of the time

 

gives you a perspective on the folks who find it "hard", y'know?

[Mark Foote]

On 5/12/2024 at 3:50 PM, Nungali said:

 

I find this amusing . Not many understand what it is .   All that love and harmony stuff ... they tried to BS me with that in my Aikido training . I showed them a picture of 'master' from my old first edition Aikido book , he has avoided a sword blow and is striking back with the metal points on the end of a fan into the attackers eyes and has a crazy screaming ('kiai') look on his face .

 

Love and harmony ....   

 

I can explain the how and why  behind the  peace and harmony  BS . Aikido WAS NOT  'born in accordance' with these principles at all .

 

It was part of a militia cult movement that was going to be part of world domination .... it interesting how a couple of nukes can make  someone to pull their head in  .....   and for their (now) 'art' to survive  ( as a money bringing family cult ... it still is ) it had to be changed and re written  .  No martial art existed after WWII that was not turned onto a sport or some expression of 'art' (budo)  or  'love jitsu ' .

 

PS . I am not dissing the benefits of the modern art , just 'ironing out some historical BS '
 

Thanks, Maddie, for giving us all permission to offer opinions and meander around a little bit.

Trunk, I gotta say, that I was very interested both in Salvijus's varying personalities, and Maddie's steady keel.  I'll be the first to acknowledge that I too have varying personalities, depending on who I'm with and the social context of the moment (or at least sometimes it seems like I have varying personalities, to me)--hopefully I'm true through them all, although not true in the sense that Salvijus meant when he referred to "truth".

Salvijus I believe is some denomination of Christian, and so perhaps has other struggles related to his faith.  I'm the fool that believes those differences can be cut through clean, so long as all the participants bring a willingness to jump into the unknown together.  Can't be just one side that jumps.  Not to abandon one's beliefs, but to put more faith in process than end result.

 

Judo was taken out of jiu-jitsu in the 1880's, I believe.  According to Wikipedia:
 

Judo rose to prominence for its dominance over established jujutsu schools in tournaments hosted by the Tokyo Metropolitan Police Department (警視庁武術大会, Keishicho Bujutsu Taikai), resulting in its adoption as the department's primary martial art.

 

I really am out of touch with what happened in the Aikido world after the seventies.  At that time, I think there was a split between the Ki-Aikido of Koichi Tohei and the Aikido of Kissomaru Ueshiba, Morihei's son, which placed less emphasis on ki and more on technique.  My favorite thing of Aikido was a film I saw that included footage of Morihei spinning a jo, a short stick, just spinning it--no kata.  He seemed to really enjoy it (I've looked, but I've never found that footage online).

 

I have known friends who took  up Aikido and mastered it.  It's a lot like Zen, in California--we have a lot of masters, but it's unclear how they will do in the cage, because engaging with real-world opponents was not in their training.  That's my opinion, and it's very true (as my father used to say).

Me and my dad:

 

 

 

 

Edited May 14 by Mark Foote

[Maddie]

15 hours ago, Mark Foote said:

Thanks, Maddie, for giving us all permission to offer opinions and meander around a little bit.

Trunk, I gotta say, that I was very interested both in Salvijus's varying personalities, and Maddie's steady keel.  I'll be the first to acknowledge that I too have varying personalities, depending on who I'm with and the social context of the moment (or at least sometimes it seems like I have varying personalities, to me)--hopefully I'm true through them all, although not true in the sense that Salvijus meant when he referred to "truth".

Salvijus I believe is some denomination of Christian, and so perhaps has other struggles related to his faith.  I'm the fool that believes those differences can be cut through clean, so long as all the participants bring a willingness to jump into the unknown together.  Can't be just one side that jumps.  Not to abandon one's beliefs, but to put more faith in process than end result.

 

 

All I will say and I think Corpse will agree with me is after you are transitioning long enough you begin to recognize the various varieties of  trolling. It takes a while but eventually you learn. Some are so subtle that I honestly don't think if I had not been transitioning for a while I would be able to recognize them at all. But nevertheless its "the troll that wears the halo" that are often the hardest to detect. I do think speaking about trolls and trolling is a valid topic for a trans forum because IT HAPPENS SO MUCH against trans people. Leaning the subtleties of trans trolling is important to understanding what we deal with on sometimes a daily basis. 

  I think what can seem as varying personalities is nothing more than once the subtle troll pushes things too far (one personality) they try to play innocent (other personality) so that they can restore their camouflage and return to their subtle trolling.   

  Often people that are struggling with their faith but deep down feel something going on related to these issues tend to be the most problematic. The classic example of the super homophobic congressman that is trying to pass all the legislation gets caught with the male intern. 

Edited May 15 by Maddie

[liminal_luke]

What´s been interesting to me is to experience how actual transgendered people, at least here on the forum, are different from the sense of transgendered people I´ve picked up from reading about the issue or the cultural zeitgeist.  In my mind there´s a lot of fear about this topic.  There´s a sense that if a person doesn´t get it "right" -- whatever that is -- then someone is gonna wanna lop your head off.  I suspect there are Bums who aren´t participating in this thread because they think their opinions would not be welcomed.  My experience has been that there´s more openness here to a variety of viewpoints than I would have predicted.

[Maddie]

10 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

What´s been interesting to me is to experience how actual transgendered people, at least here on the forum, are different from the sense of transgendered people I´ve picked up from reading about the issue or the cultural zeitgeist.  In my mind there´s a lot of fear about this topic.  There´s a sense that if a person doesn´t get it "right" -- whatever that is -- then someone is gonna wanna lop your head off.  I suspect there are Bums who aren´t participating in this thread because they think their opinions would not be welcomed.  My experience has been that there´s more openness here to a variety of viewpoints than I would have predicted.

 

I think a lot of what we see and hear about trans people in the media is just a strawman trans person that does not really exist in real life. 

[Tommy]

9 hours ago, surrogate corpse said:

If I might answer as well: yes and no.

 

Yes, I am happy. My life is better for transitioning. I have richer friendships and relationships. I don't wake up waiting to die. I am better to the people I love. I find meaning and joy in the things I do, rather than a flat anhedonia. I laugh, loudly and often.

 

But am I happy? I carry a tremendous sadness: the weight of 30 years of grief, long-suppressed and only now brought to the light. And I carry a tremendous anger: that grief did not just happen, it was the result of things done to me. Nor is this sadness and this anger just about me: all my friends have suffered the same; not all of them survived it. (I am lucky; I have only one dead friend.)

 

So: am I happy? I would rather say: I am on the path to happiness. I have far to go.

So, not happy with the way you have been treated by being different. But, happy that things have improved. Sounds like a very common struggle (for many teenagers and some adults). Of course, some episodes are more intense than others. I wish you well on your journey to happiness and hope things just keep getting better.

 

Sorry, I sometimes forget what I wanted to say here. Humm, ... oh, something about old age and knowing the time is shorter. Knowing what age my parents died and makes me think about how much longer I have left. No that wasn't it. Got to do what makes you happy?? (Hands in the air) Fudge.

Edited May 15 by Tommy

[Trunk]

~~~ admin note ~~~

I've suspended Salvijus from posting through the end of the month.

He posted twice here in-thread after being warned not to, both posts I've hid.

(I've also hidden a post by @silent thunder re: Salvijus).

Drop this conflicted bullsh#t and please

... continue on with the thread's topic at your leisure.

~~~ admin out ~~~

[Maddie]

I was chatting to somebody yesterday that initially confused me as a trans person. This person identifies as non-binary and so naturally I was curious since I don't know much about this topic and they were kind enough to explain that they identify as 80% female and 20% male. Really cool person and a fun conversation but I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. It just made me think of the yin yang symbol that in Yin is a little bit of Yang and in Yang is a little bit of yin.

 I kind of find it interesting in a way that not all the acronyms on the lgbtq+ list really understand each other that well. When I first realized I was trans I think I thought it was going to be this way more but this is not the case. Luke has a gay man didn't initially know that much about trans people and honestly I can't say I know what it's like to be a gay man but this is why I like asking you questions and I respectful manner to learn and to broaden my perspective.

Edited May 15 by Maddie

[liminal_luke]

56 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 Luke has a gay man didn't initially know that much about trans people and honestly I can't say I know what it's like to be a gay man but this is why I like asking you questions and I respectful manner to learn and to broaden my perspective.

 

The other thing I don´t get acronym-wise is the word "queer."  What does it mean?  Maybe it´s a special category for lesbians with pink hair or newly minted gay boys with nose rings.  I haven´t been able to figure it out except to say, whatever it is, it´s not me.  People make fun of our ever-expanding acronym and with good reason: if everybody who feels a little different is included then the acronym means nothing at all; if everybody is included then nobody is included.  Another question -- what´s the plus sign at the end for?  I´m guessing it´s a way of saying "hey guys, we´re not done here yet...these are all the letters we can think of so far but there will be others coming down later so, ya know, plus."  It´s beyond ridiculous.

Edited May 15 by liminal_luke

[Maddie]

13 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

The other thing I don´t get acronym-wise is the word "queer."  What does it mean? 

 

I think it's gen z people that have plushies or something? 🤔🤭

[Maddie]

Ever since I started transitioning I have been drawn to Red Tara. I know she's advertised as the bodhisattva of romantic attraction, but there's actually a lot more to her. She seems to fill me with comforting feminine energy and assist the transition process. She's kind of become my patron saint of transitioning. 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 15 by Maddie

[surrogate corpse]

1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

The other thing I don´t get acronym-wise is the word "queer."  What does it mean?  Maybe it´s a special category for lesbians with pink hair or newly minted gay boys with nose rings.  I haven´t been able to figure it out except to say, whatever it is, it´s not me.  People make fun of our ever-expanding acronym and with good reason: if everybody who feels a little different is included then the acronym means nothing at all; if everybody is included then nobody is included.  Another question -- what´s the plus sign at the end for?  I´m guessing it´s a way of saying "hey guys, we´re not done here yet...these are all the letters we can think of so far but there will be others coming down later so, ya know, plus."  It´s beyond ridiculous.

 

I would say that the main value of "queer" and the ever-expanding acronym is that it helps separate genuine allies from the impostors who put conditions of Respectability on queer acceptance and liberation.

 

We should make them even more ridiculous, to expose even more impostors.

[liminal_luke]

23 minutes ago, surrogate corpse said:

 

I would say that the main value of "queer" and the ever-expanding acronym is that it helps separate genuine allies from the impostors who put conditions of Respectability on queer acceptance and liberation.

 

We should make them even more ridiculous, to expose even more impostors.

 

The dilemma I think you´re pointing at has a long history.  Take gay pride parades.  For many, the event is an invitation to bring their most outlandish selves to the public square.  Socially conservative gays of an assimilationist bent are routinely horrified.  Many feel that the costuming, semi-nudity, and general flouting of societal norms sets the movement back.  Personally, I love myself some costuming and  semi-nudity, but I understand why others object.  Maybe it wouldn´t be so bad if we left the dog collars at home.

 

If we´re gonna take a big-tent approach, shouldn´t those who value "respectability" be included too?  I suspect that I´m an imposter myself, which is ironic because, ya know, I´m pretty gay.  

Edited May 15 by liminal_luke