Transgender Q&A

[silent thunder]

One of my dearest friends, who also happened to be my favorite boss of all time on several dozen films and television shows over the last 18 years, began her transition in her mid 50's.  She's in year three now and has been out of state working on a show, so I've not seen her in person yet, but I was one of the few she confided in pre-transition when the realization began to dawn and we talk regularly.

 

It has been incredibly inspiring and healing for me to witness her process.  The insight and the process she underwent when exploring the aspects of life that had plagued her daily life inducing intense depression and loathing; the eventual acceptance of the reality of the need to embrace her true self and the courage to live it completely is one of the more amazing processes I've been priveledged to be part of...  talk about alchemy!  She's becoming a true Master.

 

She is married to a remarkable woman who has embraced her transition with grace and an open heart.  They've been together for around 16 years at this point and their relationship is thriving.

 

Beyond all that however, is the delight I experience seeing my friend bloom in dimensions I could never forsee.  Her authenticity shines in all she does and her vitality, openness and endurance all exude big qi and an optimism she never possessed when living as a man.

 

Then there are the few ass hats, but as Maddie just mentioned, unless it comes up in conversation directly, no one in daily life seems to notice or consider it, or suspect anything other than they're meeting a woman... and when it does, it's gratefully just a few who make a mess of themselves with their bigotry and judgement. 

 

While these few stories always insite intense protectiveness and occasional rage, (I've always taken slights to my own self far easier than allowing or witnessing them to happen to a friend), I stand with all my marginalized friends, but respect them enough in their own right to not interfere unless pointedly asked.

 

I'm humbled again recounting this for the thread, considering the path we've gone together.

There are few treasures greater than a dear friend.  Few indeed.

[Salvijus]

Two souls in one body. A million insights can be had about gender in this one video. 

 

 

 

Edited June 3 by Salvijus

[blue eyed snake]

On 31-5-2024 at 9:01 PM, liminal_luke said:

 

Zapchen (Zapchen Somatics) is a somatic wellness practice that combines simple childlike bodily movements (yawning, sighing, stretching, jiggling, etc) with elements of Buddhism.  It´s great stuff, imo, but not the important part of my anecdote.  My coach Laura fell in love with another woman and entered a relationship with her in spite of the fact that she remained sexually attracted to men. I found this inspiring, a little weird but inspiring.   

 

In my younger years I had sexual relations with both men and women. Looking back on that,  I prefer men in my bed, the thresh-hold for women to end up in my bed was a bit higher. I needed a stronger heart connection so to say. Also differences in how I enjoyed, as in qualitative differences.

 

Now that my sexuality is reduced to looking and enjoying like you enjoy a butterfly, without any active intentions. Both genders can look good to me but I prefer women. That has always been so, I do remember long ago we were eating lunch and looking at passers by, i spontaneously said, hey look what a beautiful girl is walking there. Which gave me surprised looks from my colleague mechanics and then one of them said,  somewhat baffled: "you really are a man".

 

which shows nicely how people tend(ed) to think their sexual orientation  determines whether they are man or woman

 

[silent thunder]

Unless we actively engage with it, our families and social networks will program bundled responses to most conditions we encounter in life.

 

Assumptions and familiarity based on these programmed bundles become our experience of reality and induce in many a nigh on robotic approach to life. 

 

Much of my process of cultivation has been in identifying such programs and attempting to assess their worth and veracity in living with presence and authenticity, then having the courage and fortitude to endure the disorienting and uncomfortable process of releasing into new avenues of perceiving what is versus what I've been sold.

 

 

Edited June 3 by silent thunder
spelling

[liminal_luke]

2 hours ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

which shows nicely how people tend(ed) to think their sexual orientation  determines whether they are man or woman

 

 

There´s speculation (theories? anecdotes?) in some quarters that gay kids are getting mixed up and assuming they are transgender because of their same-sex attractions.  I have no idea if this is happening, or, if so, to what extent.  Hope not.  It is a complicated issue.

Edited June 3 by liminal_luke

[blue eyed snake]

its confusing, or it was when I was a teen and  decades later. 

 

first it was: you're a girl--- bot nope, i do not feel I am a girl so then I must be a boy ( strict dichotomy, when you're not A then you must be  B,  this was as a preschooler 

 

Then I found I was attracted to boys, young teen, dreaming over that one boy in the class...but how can that be? when I am a boy then attraction to boys would mean I am homosexual, or am I a girl after all. ( this was at a time were homosexuals pretty much were not allowed to be a teacher)

 

some years later wildly in love with a girl, I still remember her sweetness. Now, am I a boy falling in love with a girl? Or am I a lesbian for wanting to share with a girl- more confusion   

 

so I can well imagine that the same confusion reigns now for some kids, but on the other hand,

 

Friend of mine never had one moment of confusion, he was a very feminine homosexual but never had any confusion about his gender.

[Maddie]

14 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

There´s speculation (theories? anecdotes?) in some quarters that gay kids are getting mixed up and assuming they are transgender because of their same-sex attractions.  I have no idea if this is happening, or, if so, to what extent.  Hope not.  It is a complicated issue.

 

I'm not sure but I think one thing that too me a while to overcome to realize I was trans was that I was not attracted to men. The first thing my sister asked me after I came out to her was "does this mean you are attracted to men now?" There's still a lot of confusion on the difference between sexual orientation and gender identity. 

[liminal_luke]

There are a lot of straight male hotties out there, and more than once I´ve fantasized that I could be the kind of beautiful woman they would find attractive.  An embarassing fantasy, I know, but there ya go.  Sadly, I´ve always been a guy.  

Edited June 3 by liminal_luke

[Maddie]

2 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

There are a lot of straight male hotties out there, and more than once I´ve fantasized that I could be the kind of beautiful woman they would find attractive.  An embarassing fantasy, I know, but there ya go.  Sadly, I´ve always been a guy.  

 

I'm curious, why does that fantasy embarrass you? 

[liminal_luke]

34 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

I'm curious, why does that fantasy embarrass you? 

 

Many gay guys are attracted to a kind of rough masculinity that´s associated, rightly or wrongly, with straight men.  One of my more horndoggy gay friends talks about how he used to be able to "get" straight guys.  (I always tell him that if they were having sex with you they weren´t really straight.  Not sure if that´s true or not.)  Some gays call themselves "straight-acting" in online profiles.  To me, there´s something a little self-hating and untoward about this veneration of straightness.  It´s a little like Woody Allen not wanting to belong to a club that would have him as a member.  Why should we value straight guys over ourselves?  It´s an embarassing fantasy.

 

[Maddie]

16 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

Many gay guys are attracted to a kind of rough masculinity that´s associated, rightly or wrongly, with straight men.  One of my more horndoggy gay friends talks about how he used to be able to "get" straight guys.  (I always tell him that if they were having sex with you they weren´t really straight.  Not sure if that´s true or not.)  Some gays call themselves "straight-acting" in online profiles.  To me, there´s something a little self-hating and untoward about this veneration of straightness.  It´s a little like Woody Allen not wanting to belong to a club that would have him as a member.  Why should we value straight guys over ourselves?  It´s an embarassing fantasy.

 

 

I was say its internalized "homophobia" most likely, which would be a narrative in the back of one's mind that would say "straight men count more than gay men" or something to that effect. 

[Maddie]

18 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

  One of my more horndoggy gay friends talks about how he used to be able to "get" straight guys.  (I always tell him that if they were having sex with you they weren´t really straight.  Not sure if that´s true or not.)  

 

I've heard gay guys say this as well, that they like "straight guys" at which point I go into a feedback loop where I think to myself "if they slept with a guy how can they technically be straight?" lol

[liminal_luke]

Just now, Maddie said:

 

I've heard gay guys say this as well, that they like "straight guys" at which point I go into a feedback loop where I think to myself "if they slept with a guy how can they technically be straight?" lol

 

Exactly.  What my friend was really saying was that he was attracted to guys that didn´t like themselves very much.  A common, if embarrassing, predicament.  

 

These days you are a good looking woman but you´ve told us that you´re asexual and something of a hermit.  Oh the irony!

[Maddie]

1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

 

Exactly.  What my friend was really saying was that he was attracted to guys that didn´t like themselves very much.  A common, if embarrassing, predicament.  

 

These days you are a good looking woman but you´ve told us that you´re asexual and something of a hermit.  Oh the irony!

 

I might be asexual but I'm not a-compliment so thank you :-)

[Apech]

I find my orientation to be generally north by north east unless there’s a stiff southerly which can cause me to tilt west.  On a rough day the weather cock can swing wildly leading to scattered spume on deck.  Look lively ye lubbards and hoist the top sail.

 

 

[Maddie]

24 minutes ago, Apech said:

I find my orientation to be generally north by north east unless there’s a stiff southerly which can cause me to tilt west.  On a rough day the weather cock can swing wildly leading to scattered spume on deck.  Look lively ye lubbards and hoist the top sail.

 

 

 

oh really? which way is the old weather cock pointing today? 🤭🐓 

Edited June 3 by Maddie

[Apech]

25 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

oh really? which way is the old weather cock pointing today? 🤭🐓 

Towards the window.

[surrogate corpse]

On 6/3/2024 at 7:52 AM, liminal_luke said:

There´s speculation (theories? anecdotes?) in some quarters that gay kids are getting mixed up and assuming they are transgender because of their same-sex attractions.  I have no idea if this is happening, or, if so, to what extent.  Hope not.  It is a complicated issue.

it's not that complicated, really; it's just a lie

 

what's interesting are the underlying premises of the lie:

1. kids can't be trusted to know their own feelings; adults know them better
2. kids need to be protected from information; having more accurate information will make kids more confused, not less

adults by and large replace the complex and scary world with a simpler, safer fantasy. children, who haven't yet learned to replace the actual world with their caretakers' preferred fantasy, are therefore dangerous

 

most of what adults discuss in the name of "protecting children" is really about protecting adults from this danger

 

the way we talk about trans kids is—when it's not utterly depressing—actually quite interesting for how plainly it reveals just how terrified adults are of giving kids agency over their own lives

[liminal_luke]

5 minutes ago, surrogate corpse said:

it's not that complicated, really; it's just a lie

 

what's interesting are the underlying premises of the lie:

1. kids can't be trusted to know their own feelings; adults know them better
2. kids need to be protected from information; having more accurate information will make kids more confused, not less

 

 

I don´t think it´s all one way or the other.  Some kids know their feelings, some don´t.  Some adults know their feelings, some don´t.  If a kid says that they are trans we shouldn´t assume it´s automatically true or untrue.  Instead, that´s a starting point for asking questions and exploring further.  

[Cobie]

33 minutes ago, surrogate corpse said:

… protecting children …

“the brain's frontal lobe, especially the prefrontal cortex, isn't fully mature until around age 25. The development of the pre-frontal cortex of the frontal lobe allows us to process the pros and cons of a decision before it is made” 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 6 by Cobie

[Maddie]

If anyone has watched the video I posted earlier about trans kids camp it is very enlightening. 

[liminal_luke]

40 minutes ago, Maddie said:

If anyone has watched the video I posted earlier about trans kids camp it is very enlightening. 

 

I went back and watched part of the video.  The camp seems like a great experience for many trans kids and their families.  

[Maddie]

4 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

I went back and watched part of the video.  The camp seems like a great experience for many trans kids and their families.  

 

To me personally at least one of the main take aways from the video was that the kids were not confused at all about their identities. 

[liminal_luke]

12 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

To me personally at least one of the main take aways from the video was that the kids were not confused at all about their identities. 

 

I´ve never had kids myself and don´t spend much time around kids now so this topic is far from my wheelhouse.  I´m sure there are kids that know from an early age that they are transgender and never waver.  Good for them!  For all I know most kids who identify as trans are confident in their gender identity, like the kids at the camp.  But I don´t think it follows that that´s a universal experience.  People of all ages are wildly varied and not every kid who says they are trans will turn out to be a Maddie or a surrogate corpse.  

Edited June 6 by liminal_luke

[Maddie]

9 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

I´ve never had kids myself and don´t spend much time around kids now so this topic is far from my wheelhouse.  I´m sure there are kids that know from an early age that they are transgender and never waver.  Good for them!  For all I know most kids who identify as trans are confident in their gender identity, like the kids at the camp.  But I don´t think it follows that that´s a universal experience.  People of all ages are wildly varied and not every kid who says they are trans will turn out to be a Maddie or a surrogate corpse.  

 

Actually for most of my childhood (aside from the very beginning) I did not know I was trans. I showed tendencies early on but literally had it beat out of me. Well not really beat out, but I had to deeply suppress it so deeply that even I did not consciously realize it. This leads me to believe that a lot of kids that turn out to be "unsure" of their gender (i.e. think they are trans and realize they are not) might have had a lot of pressure put on them to "not be trans". But then again I am not an expert and don't claim to know the answer in every situation. This is why I do think that if a child does express that they feel that their gender is different than the one assigned to them at birth they should be made to see a licensed therapist.