Transgender Q&A

[Daniel]

3 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

Not at all. To me its like asking "do you miss being hungry and thirsty?". 

 

Understood.  There's potentially a great conversation to be had regarding these questions.

[Maddie]

5 minutes ago, Daniel said:

 

Understood.  There's potentially a great conversation to be had regarding these questions.

 

I think so as well as its at the heart of the Buddha's second noble truth. :-)

[Daniel]

On 4/13/2024 at 1:39 PM, liminal_luke said:

what do you think is responsible for the apparently recent steep rise in transgenderism?

 

Not directed to me, but, there is a real problem with sexual exploitation of young people on the internet.  This exploitation takes various forms.  It's not obviously predatory.  But it is harmful.  Parents don't know what's happening; their children certainly don't know what's happening.

 

I think this phenomena is contributing to the steep rise; but that does not exclude trans folk from the rich tapestry of life as it is occurring naturally.

 

[Daniel]

9 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

I think so as well as its at the heart of the Buddha's second noble truth. :-)

 

Please restate it?

[Maddie]

6 minutes ago, Daniel said:

 

Please restate it?

 

The Second noble truth of the Buddha is that the cause of suffering is desire. (poor quality paraphrase) 

[liminal_luke]

...

Edited June 25 by liminal_luke

[old3bob]

1 hour ago, Maddie said:

 

The Second noble truth of the Buddha is that the cause of suffering is desire. (poor quality paraphrase) 

 

well then again we could say that the historic Buddha was driven by and wholeheartedly  desired to be free...

Edited June 25 by old3bob

[Daniel]

1 hour ago, Maddie said:

The Second noble truth of the Buddha is that the cause of suffering is desire. (poor quality paraphrase) 

 

Is there a noble truth regarding pleasure?

[liminal_luke]

Is this thread turning into a mashup of transgender issues and Buddhism?  That´s what a friend of mine would call a double-dip combo.

[Maddie]

25 minutes ago, Daniel said:

 

Is there a noble truth regarding pleasure?

 

The Third noble truth is the truth of the cessation of suffering. 

[Maddie]

19 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

Is this thread turning into a mashup of transgender issues and Buddhism?  That´s what a friend of mine would call a double-dip combo.

 

This is what happens when you talk about trans issues on the Dao Bums lol. 

[Daniel]

8 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

The Third noble truth is the truth of the cessation of suffering. 

 

Without desire there is no suffering ( 2nd noble truth )?

Without suffering there is no cessation ( 3rd noble truth )?

 

Without cessation there is no pleasure?

[Daniel]

31 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

Is this thread turning into a mashup of transgender issues and Buddhism?  That´s what a friend of mine would call a double-dip combo.

 

The thread is transitioning?

 

Crap, I'm a double dipper?  Again?  ( hee-hee, see what I did there? )

 

Edited June 25 by Daniel

[Maddie]

19 minutes ago, Daniel said:

 

Without desire there is no suffering ( 2nd noble truth )?

Without suffering there is no cessation ( 3rd noble truth )?

 

Without cessation there is no pleasure?

 

No lol. Let's go through the four noble truths shall we?

 

1. In life there is suffering.

 

2. The cause of suffering is desire.

 

3. There is an end of suffering (when there is no suffering the natural state of the mind is peace and happiness)

 

4. The eight fold path that leads to the end of suffering. 

[liminal_luke]

56 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

This is what happens when you talk about trans issues on the Dao Bums lol. 

 

First ya go nonbinary, then ya go nondual.  Genderqueer thinking -- the ultimate gateway drug.

[Mark Foote]

2 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

well then again we could say that the historic Buddha was driven by and wholeheartedly  desired to be free...
 

 

 

Because of lack of desire, …by means of lack of desire, get rid of and transcend that equanimity in face of uniformity. connected with uniformity. Thus is the getting rid of it, thus is its transcending.

 

(MN III 220, Pali Text Society Vol III p 269)

That's the description of how to move from the state of "neither-perceiving-nor-yet-not-perceiving" to "the cessation of ('determinate thought' in) perception and feeling".  

You're probably thinking of:

 

And what… is the ceasing of action? That ceasing of action by body, speech, and mind, by which one contacts freedom,–that is called ‘the ceasing of action’.  

 

(SN IV 145, Pali Text Society Vol IV p 85)

 

 

…I have seen that the ceasing of the activities is gradual. When one has attained the first trance, speech has ceased. When one has attained the second trance, thought initial and sustained has ceased. When one has attained the third trance, zest has ceased. When one has attained the fourth trance, inbreathing and outbreathing have ceased… Both perception and feeling have ceased when one has attained the cessation of perception and feeling.  

 

(SN IV 217, Pali Text Society vol IV p 146)

 

Everybody wants to turn the corner and be enlightened.  Fine.  What about the ceasing that is gradual, to at least the cessation of ("determinate thought" in) inbreathing and outbreathing, maybe every sitting?  And the invocation of that cessation, as called upon, in daily living?

 

 

 

 

[old3bob]

2 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

Is this thread turning into a mashup of transgender issues and Buddhism?  That´s what a friend of mine would call a double-dip combo.

 

 is that anything like a Ben and Gerry's combo ice cream?

[liminal_luke]

Just now, old3bob said:

 

 is that anything like a Ben and Gerry's combo ice cream?

 

Not really.  This has been a fun and educational thread but I much prefer Ben and Jerry´s.

[old3bob]

17 minutes ago, Mark Foote said:

 

 

Because of lack of desire, …by means of lack of desire, get rid of and transcend that equanimity in face of uniformity. connected with uniformity. Thus is the getting rid of it, thus is its transcending.

 

(MN III 220, Pali Text Society Vol III p 269)

That's the description of how to move from the state of "neither-perceiving-nor-yet-not-perceiving" to "the cessation of ('determinate thought' in) perception and feeling".  

You're probably thinking of:

 

And what… is the ceasing of action? That ceasing of action by body, speech, and mind, by which one contacts freedom,–that is called ‘the ceasing of action’.  

 

(SN IV 145, Pali Text Society Vol IV p 85)

 

 

…I have seen that the ceasing of the activities is gradual. When one has attained the first trance, speech has ceased. When one has attained the second trance, thought initial and sustained has ceased. When one has attained the third trance, zest has ceased. When one has attained the fourth trance, inbreathing and outbreathing have ceased… Both perception and feeling have ceased when one has attained the cessation of perception and feeling.  

 

(SN IV 217, Pali Text Society vol IV p 146)

 

Everybody wants to turn the corner and be enlightened.  Fine.  What about the ceasing that is gradual, to at least the cessation of ("determinate thought" in) inbreathing and outbreathing, maybe every sitting?  And the invocation of that cessation, as called upon, in daily living?

 

 

then again his desire for freedom almost killed him until that leveled out, thus it can't be dismissed as not being part of what transpired. 

[old3bob]

8 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

Not really.  This has been a fun and educational thread but I much prefer Ben and Jerry´s.

 

right J for Jerry 

[Mark Foote]

On 6/25/2024 at 12:55 PM, Maddie said:

 

1. In life there is suffering.

 

2. The cause of suffering is desire.

 

3. There is an end of suffering (when there is no suffering the natural state of the mind is peace and happiness)

 

4. The eight fold path that leads to the end of suffering. 
 

 

 

Abbreviated four truths:

 

I, Ananda, do not behold one material shape wherein is delight, wherein is content, but that from its changing and becoming otherwise there will not arise grief, suffering, lamentation, and despair.
 

But this abiding, Ananda, has been fully awakened to by the Tathagata [literally, “one who has gone beyond”], that is to say, by not attending to any signs, the entering on and abiding in an inward emptiness… Wherefore, Ananda, if [one] should desire: ‘Entering on an inward emptiness, may I dwell therein’, that [person], Ananda, should steady, calm, make one-pointed and concentrate [the] mind precisely on what is inward.
 

And how, Ananda. does [one] steady, calm, make one-pointed and concentrate [the] mind precisely on what is inward? As to this, Ananda, [the person], aloof from pleasures of the senses, aloof from unskilled states of mind, entering on it abides in the first [initial] meditation… the second … the third… the fourth meditation. Even so, Ananda, does [one] steady, calm, make one pointed, and concentrate [the] mind precisely on what is inward.
 

(MN III 111-112, Pali Text Society Vol III p 154-156)

 

 

"Without cessation there is no pleasure?"--Daniel

 

"What's the point of a revolution without general copulation?"  (--Peter Weiss, "The Persecution and Assassination of Jean-Paul Marat as Performed by the Inmates of the Asylum of Charenton Under the Direction of the Marquis de Sade")

 

With the cessation of habit and volition in inhalation and exhalation (the fourth meditation), the automatic activity of the body in inhalation and exhalation takes place solely by virtue of the free location of consciousness.  Prior to "the cessation of inbreathing and outbreathing", activity in the body tends to coordinate by virtue of the sense of place associated with consciousness.  To find that sense of place is simply "to hold consciousness by itself": 

 

Meditation means you have to hold consciousness by itself. The consciousness should give attention to itself.

 

(quote attributed to Shri Nisargadatta Maharaj)

 

When a presence of mind is retained as the placement of attention shifts, then the natural tendency toward the free placement of attention draws out thoughts initial and sustained, and brings on the stages of concentration.

 

(Shunryu Suzuki on Shikantaza and the Theravadin Stages)

 

 

WIthout cessation, there's no rhythm in mindfulness. 

 

 

 

 

"

[Daniel]

On 4/14/2024 at 5:17 AM, Maddie said:

With the recent topic being about being responsible in vetting trans people

 

I understand that there's an online trans community.  Forums, FB groups, etc... Is that true?  Are you connected with this online community?  I've heard that they can be rather forceful in their advocacy and encouragement of folks to transition lacking responsible vetting.

 

Can you comment on this?

[Daniel]

On 4/14/2024 at 8:15 AM, Maddie said:

I live in Texas it's a very religious and conservative state and I don't really have any problems because thanks to hormones and such I basically look like any other woman. On the other hand however if I looked like some kind of in between anomaly there's actually people who would be inclined to potentially hurt me.

 

Is there a trans community in your area?  Do you feel like "the only one"?

[Daniel]

On 4/15/2024 at 10:23 AM, Maddie said:

Thought I would share another thought I have. To me what is interesting/baffling about the transgender issue is the strong reactions and feelings it brings out in people. I don't really understand it. 

 

Have you heard of GenderF___ ?  I suspect it's more common here in Portland, OR.  We keep it weird, here... much weirder than Austin.

 

Anyway, this movement?  Aesthetic?  whatever it is?  intentionally messes with people and incites the sort of strong feelings you're talking about.  "SacredClown" sort of behavior, if you've ever heard of that.  It really only takes one person.  As they used to say:  "You never get a second chance to make a first impression"

 

Anyway, there's people out there, in the trans community stirring up trouble for all of us, CIS and Trans alike.  It's part of making progress, I'm not blaming, or judging.  Just mentioning it in case it's helpful.

 

Edited June 27 by Daniel

[Sir Darius the Clairvoyent]

Why is there so strikingly many trans people in Thailand compared to the rest of the world?