Transgender Q&A

[EFreethought]

12 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

 

My impression from reading Catholic stuff is that there´s lots of room for dissenting opinions in Catholicism, that each person has to consult her own conscience about matters.  So perhaps the Catholic mystics you find interesting aren´t always in agreement with the official Vatican statements?  

 

A few thoughts on this:

 

When Benedict was pope (he was the one who looked like Emperor Palpatine from Star Wars), conservative Catholics said that what the pope said was the final word, and we should all be quiet and do what he says.

 

Then Francis came along, said that Catholics should be Catholics, just not be jerks about it, and the same conservatives who said we should follow the pope decided that Francis was not a real Catholic and should be replaced. Even though he was chosen via the same process and probably most of the same cardinals.

 

If you think "the Holy Spirit is correct when we say it is", do you really believe in the Holy Spirit?

 

[Maddie]

37 minutes ago, EFreethought said:

 

A few thoughts on this:

 

When Benedict was pope (he was the one who looked like Emperor Palpatine from Star Wars), conservative Catholics said that what the pope said was the final word, and we should all be quiet and do what he says.

 

Then Francis came along, said that Catholics should be Catholics, just not be jerks about it, and the same conservatives who said we should follow the pope decided that Francis was not a real Catholic and should be replaced. Even though he was chosen via the same process and probably most of the same cardinals.

 

If you think "the Holy Spirit is correct when we say it is", do you really believe in the Holy Spirit?

 

Excellent point 

 

* "The one who looks like palpatine" 😂😂😂

Edited April 28 by Maddie

[Mark Foote]

10 hours ago, EFreethought said:

 

A few thoughts on this:

 

When Benedict was pope (he was the one who looked like Emperor Palpatine from Star Wars), conservative Catholics said that what the pope said was the final word, and we should all be quiet and do what he says.

 

Then Francis came along, said that Catholics should be Catholics, just not be jerks about it, and the same conservatives who said we should follow the pope decided that Francis was not a real Catholic and should be replaced. Even though he was chosen via the same process and probably most of the same cardinals.

 

If you think "the Holy Spirit is correct when we say it is", do you really believe in the Holy Spirit?

 

 

As I understand it from the sermon of the Great Decease, Mahakasyapa was traveling with a group of monks at the time Gautama the Shakyan, aka "the Buddha", died.  Kasyapa proceeded to the town where Gautama's body was on the pyre, awaiting cremation, and he took Gautama's bowl and robe.

 

The Zen story about Gautama holding up a flower and Mahakasyapa receiving wordless transmission--while he was on the road, Kasyapa encountered a naked ascetic holding a Mandarva flower.  Seems the Mandarva trees bloomed out of season, after Gautama's death.  The ascetic informed Kasyapa of Gautama's death (it's all in the Mahaparinibbana sutta).

 

The bowl and robe were passed down for centuries.  Bodhidharma brought them with him to China.  The sixth patriarch in China received them from the fifth, but he was the last to receive them.  At that point, there were people willing to murder the sixth patriarch for possession of the robe and bowl, their value in authenticating the teaching of the bearer was established and widely known. 

 

The sixth patriarch remained in hiding for some time after receiving the artifacts.  The tradition of handing on the robe and bowl was discontinued, from that time on.

 

The voice of Gautama the Shakyan in the sermons of the first four sermon volumes of the Pali Canon is unique.  He delves into amazing detail about everything, something I think is a characteristic of the teachers of India, and yet his teachings about the ceasing of "determinate thought" in action and the states of concentration I find to be unique in the world.  The mindfulness that he taught as his own way of living, similarly unique in the literature of the world.

 

What is taught now of mindfulness and of the significance of the meditative states to daily living has very little to do with the teachings of Gautama the Shakyan, in my estimation.  About as much as the teachings of the Catholic church have to do with the teachings recorded in the Gospel of Thomas, which the church chose not to recognize a long time ago in favor of the later teachings recorded in John and the similarly late teachings of Paul.

 

When it comes to eating the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, and proclaiming it to be the way to live forever, however, the Catholic church is way out there ahead of the rest.  Jesus quilt-knitting Christ...

 

 

 

Edited April 28 by Mark Foote

[Maddie]

39 minutes ago, Mark Foote said:

 

What is taught now of mindfulness and of the significance of the meditative states to daily living has very little to do with the teachings of Gautama the Shakyan, in my estimation.  About as much as the teachings of the Catholic church have to do with the teachings recorded in the Gospel of Thomas, which the church chose not to recognize a long time ago in favor of the later teachings recorded in John and the similarly late teachings of Paul.

 

 

I have noticed this exactly. When I first started learning about Buddhism and mindfulness I just took what teacher said for granted until I started reading the suttas for myself and saw that what was taught by the Buddha at least according to the suttas was very different.

[silent thunder]

5 hours ago, Maddie said:

I have noticed this exactly. When I first started learning about Buddhism and mindfulness I just took what teacher said for granted until I started reading the suttas for myself and saw that what was taught by the Buddha at least according to the suttas was very different.

That whole 'according to the suttas' bit is the caveat for me.  With any of these traditions, it's always some human's interpretation and also often a translation on top of the interpretation in these areas.

 

It's why I've always deeply appreciated the main tenet of buddhism about never accepting anything said by anyone, including the buddha.  To always run any teaching/offering through your own system and discover for ourself its potential veracity/application.

 

Scientitic method really, at work centuries before it was codified in the West.

Edited April 28 by silent thunder

[Maddie]

24 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

That whole 'according to the suttas' bit is the caveat.  With any of these traditions, it's always some human's interpretation and also often a translation on top of the interpretation in these areas.

 

It's why I've always deeply appreciated the main tenet of buddhism about never accepting anything said by anyone, including the buddha.  To always run any teaching/offering through your own system and discover for ourself its potential veracity/application.

 

Scientitic method really, at work centuries before it was codified in the West.

 

I'm not invalidating the later traditions protestant style, just noting that there is a difference. To be honest a lot of my practice (mantra) is not in the suttas. 

[silent thunder]

15 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

I'm not invalidating the later traditions protestant style, just noting that there is a difference. To be honest a lot of my practice (mantra) is not in the suttas. 

I hear you and understood your intent not as an invalidation, but comparison. 

 

My intent was tangential and personal about how your comment reminds me of my challenge relating to any of the old great traditional texts in general and the caveat of working with them due to the nature of shift over time and what may have originally been shared  versus what we encounter now in various versions over time.

[Apech]

25 minutes ago, Maddie said:

 

I'm not invalidating the later traditions protestant style, just noting that there is a difference. To be honest a lot of my practice (mantra) is not in the suttas. 

‘protestant’

[Apech]

3 minutes ago, silent thunder said:

I hear you and understood your intent not as an invalidation, but comparison. 

 

My intent was tangential and personal about how your comment reminds me of my challenge relating to any of the old great traditional texts in general and the caveat of working with them due to the nature of shift over time and what may have originally been shared  versus what we encounter now in various versions over time.

wot?

[Nungali]

32 minutes ago, Apech said:

wot?

 

 

 

[Maddie]

6 hours ago, Apech said:

‘protestant’

 

Sticking to the scriptures and rejecting tradition. Very Protestant LOL

[Apech]

4 hours ago, Maddie said:

 

Sticking to the scriptures and rejecting tradition. Very Protestant LOL

sola scriptura!

[Maddie]

4 hours ago, Apech said:

sola scriptura!

 

One of the biggest differences between protestantism and Catholicism.

 

And not exactly the same thing but a similar situation between Mahayana and Theravada.

Edited April 29 by Maddie

[Apech]

1 hour ago, Maddie said:

 

One of the biggest differences between protestantism and Catholicism.

 

And not exactly the same thing but a similar situation between Mahayana and Theravada.

Actually it’s not- that is just a western projection- but that should be another thread and I’ve given up Buddhing anyway.

 

 

[Maddie]

1 hour ago, Apech said:

 I’ve given up Buddhing anyway.

 

Really? May I ask why? I still do, but less enthusiastically than I used to. 

[blue eyed snake]

i guess that youngster did not need his raft anymore  

 

[Maddie]

8 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

i guess that youngster did not need his raft anymore  

 

 

Oh I like that!!! 

[blue eyed snake]

just a guess

[Apech]

1 hour ago, Maddie said:

 

Really? May I ask why? I still do, but less enthusiastically than I used to. 

One version is that I was doing guru yoga (completed 56k out of 100k) and I realised that the ‘guru’ was my Buddha nature and that the prayers weren’t doing any good but if I related directly to my ‘self’ in whatever way seemed appropriate it worked a lot better- so I went back to being a freelance mystic.  Then I began to feel much more genuine and happy about what I was doing.

 

so I do a kind of Zouwang plus a Dan tien type thingy…..

 

 

[blue eyed snake]

11 minutes ago, Apech said:

One version is that I was doing guru yoga (completed 56k out of 100k) and I realised that the ‘guru’ was my Buddha nature and that the prayers weren’t doing any good but if I related directly to my ‘self’ in whatever way seemed appropriate it worked a lot better- so I went back to being a freelance mystic.  Then I began to feel much more genuine and happy about what I was doing.

 

so I do a kind of Zouwang plus a Dan tien type thingy…..

 

 

 

Free lancing mystic cat

 

Spoiler

 

[Apech]

19 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

Free lancing mystic cat

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

18 in cat years

[Nungali]

https://medium.com/@catherinegraffam/my-cat-is-transgendered-this-is-our-story-c28722347d18

 

 

Yes, I am 'politically incorrect ' .  Maybe I should practice on cats ? 

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/woman-raising-her-cats-as-genderneutral-explains-why-a6974141.html

[Maddie]

4 minutes ago, Nungali said:

https://medium.com/@catherinegraffam/my-cat-is-transgendered-this-is-our-story-c28722347d18

 

 

Yes, I am 'politically incorrect ' .  Maybe I should practice on cats ? 

 

https://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/woman-raising-her-cats-as-genderneutral-explains-why-a6974141.html

 

Um wow, that is um.... "interesting" lol. 

 

This is the kind of crap that makes people think we are nuts 

[Mark Foote]

1 hour ago, Maddie said:

 

Um wow, that is um.... "interesting" lol. 

 

This is the kind of crap that makes people think we are nuts 
 

 

 

Wait--wait!  Not nuts?!

[Maddie]

6 minutes ago, Mark Foote said:

 

 

Wait--wait!  Not nuts?!

 

Alice is actually transgendered .... lol