Transgender Q&A

[liminal_luke]

13 minutes ago, Mark Foote said:

 

There's a sermon somewhere in the Pali Canon where some dignitary visits the place where a group of monks are residing, and comments that they are like wild animals, in that they respond to their environment more readily than the average person.

 

Sometimes I think the wild animals I meet respond to my mind, before I do anything overtly.  Just the presence of my consciousness with them is enough to set them in motion, or so it seems!

From the post I'm writing:

 

I sit down first thing in the morning and last thing at night, and I look to experience the activity of the body solely by virtue of the free location of consciousness.

 

The practice of the wild animals, IMHO. 

I take that to have been the daily practice of the Gautamid, not the cessation of volition in feeling and perceiving associated with his enlightenment, but the cessation of habit and volition in the activity of the body in inbreathing and outbreathing.  Set it up, come back to it as necessary.

Maybe someday, I will move because someone was conscious of me, without knowing why.
 

 

Mark,

 

I sometimes find your posts fascinating and, also, a little bit beyond me.  This is one of those posts.  I´m having trouble connecting how your thoughts connect to the quotation of mine you posted.  You can explain if you like -- or not!  Someday maybe I´ll get it.

[surrogate corpse]

31 minutes ago, Maddie said:

I know very little of Lao Zu's Daoism as it is, but how is Zhuangzi's Daoism different?

 

Stylistically, it is less didactic, more playful and colorful. It is told in myths and stories, and always with a cheeky smile.

 

Philosophically, it is both more detailed in its argumentation (there is a chapter analyzing the structure of judgment and its relation to attachment to self) and more concrete in its exposition (it looks at how Daoist ideas apply to a wide range of situations, including an entire chapter devoted to people with bodies that fall outside social norms).

 

Politically, it is not beholden to the particular brand of primitivism that dominates the Daodejing. That is present but balanced by "yangist" (anti-participation) and "syncretist" views.

[Maddie]

It's on now

 

 

[Mark Foote]

57 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

I´m having trouble connecting how your thoughts connect to the quotation of mine you posted.  
 

 

These social advances have given us both freedom and anxiety; not one or the other, but both.  

For this reason, I have empathy for the rigid, controlling people who think I should watch football, drink beer, and get a girlfriend.  They instinctively know we are tied together in an energetic web and the choices I make effect the world they live in.  My choice to be a freak makes their world just a little more freakish.

 

Actually, they choose to remain ignorant of the fact that their consciousness doesn't really belong to them, they choose to become what they have already been again, and they choose to desire what is pleasant in the senses over equanimity.

They don't see that as the source of suffering.  Neither do I, most of the time! 

Do animals suffer?  Yes, they do, especially because of the machinations of humans, but I think they don't suffer to the extent that humans do.  They are not as attached to the thinking mind--they think mostly in pictures instead of words, apparently.  Maybe that helps.

We have to find the joy in our thoughts, or at least in our capacity to think, in order to relinquish thought.  We also need a clue, about how to apply our presence of mind other than to thought.

All the clues have led me here:

 

I sit down first thing in the morning and last thing at night, and I look to experience the activity of the body solely by virtue of the free location of consciousness.

 

[Maddie]

2 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

 

Mark,

 

I sometimes find your posts fascinating and, also, a little bit beyond me.  This is one of those posts.  I´m having trouble connecting how your thoughts connect to the quotation of mine you posted.  You can explain if you like -- or not!  Someday maybe I´ll get it.

 

I thought it was just me lol. Sorry Mark, think you're great though!!! :-)

[liminal_luke]

3 hours ago, surrogate corpse said:

 

I get the sense you are concerned that, in calling "monstrous" what is monstrous, I am failing to see that it is human, and so failing to give it the sympathy that is due all humans. Not so. 

 

You said that you despised these people and that they were evil.  To me that felt like a very strong opinion and part of me hoped to encourage a little more empathy towards what I saw as a very human failing on their part.  Sorry if I overstepped.  Mostly though, I was just using this discusssion as a springboard to consider my own thoughts.  I agree with you that much of what is human is also monstrous.

[Mark Foote]

@surrogate corpse

By Robert Hilburn

Sept. 5, 2004 12 AM PT

 

LA TIMES STAFF WRITER
 

“I heard someone from the music business saying they are no longer looking for talent, they want people with a certain look and a willingness to cooperate,” Joni Mitchell says, summarizing just about everything she feels is wrong with the pop world these days.
 

“I thought, that’s interesting, because I believe a total unwillingness to cooperate is what is necessary to be an artist -- not for perverse reasons, but to protect your vision. The considerations of a corporation, especially now, have nothing to do with art or music. That’s why I spend my time now painting.”

 

[liminal_luke]

I love Joni Mitchell´s music but don´t always agree with her about social issues.  I just wish she would make more of an effort to see things from both sides now.  Ditto for Neil Young.  I´m still searching for a heart of gold.

Edited May 17 by liminal_luke

[Apech]

5 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

I love Joni Mitchell´s music but don´t always agree with her about social issues.  I just wish she would make more of an effort to see things from both sides now.  Ditto for Neil Young.  I´m still searching for a heart of gold.

You don’t know what you’ve got till it’s gone.

 

[Maddie]

Happy Friday 😊 

[Maddie]

Honest daily practice routine: 

 

Wake up in the morning and stare at the carpet while having tea. Then I roll around on my yoga mat randomly for a little bit and then after that post gratuitous selfies for no reason.

[Maddie]

 

 

[Maddie]

 

 

[Sanity Check]

Blair White has a clip on her youtube channel where she (transgender) sits down with her current boyfriend.

 

And shows him pictures of herself when she was still male gendered.

 

I can't claim to know what enlightenment is.

 

But feel as if I am one step closer to enlightenment after having seen that.

 

 

[kyoji]

On 5/28/2024 at 12:11 AM, Sanity Check said:

Blair White has a clip on her youtube channel where she (transgender) sits down with her current boyfriend.

 

And shows him pictures of herself when she was still male gendered.

 

I can't claim to know what enlightenment is.

 

But feel as if I am one step closer to enlightenment after having seen that.

 

 

yeah i'm pretty sure this lines up perfectly with traditional ideas of enlightenment!!

 

Jhana who?? haha, silly Gautama. you could've just watched love on the spectrum LGBT edition why did you struggle so hard  silly little shakyamuni

[kyoji]

On 5/18/2024 at 10:02 AM, Maddie said:

Honest daily practice routine: 

 

Wake up in the morning and stare at the carpet while having tea. Then I roll around on my yoga mat randomly for a little bit and then after that post gratuitous selfies for no reason.

brave.

[Maddie]

.

Edited November 13 by Maddie

[Maddie]

I thought I would take the q&A in a different direction today. 

 

Has anyone here ever dated a transgendered person or been related to one? If so what was your experience and how did you perceive theirs?

[liminal_luke]

I don´t have a story of dating a transgendered person, just a transgender dating-story adjacent anecdote.  When my Zapchen coach, Laura Lund, told me the story of the love of her life, another woman, I assumed she was a lesbian.  Not so.  Turns out she met this woman, fell in love, and got married (spiritually if not legally) -- all this in spite of a markedly hetero sexual identity.  Her love eventually died but they had a deep and mutually fulfilling relationship.  I can´t imagine doing such a thing.  I can´t imagine being so tuned into the inner qualities of another person that I could joyfully put gender preferences aside.  What flexibility!  To my thinking, this is what having superpowers looks like.

[Apech]

2 hours ago, liminal_luke said:

I don´t have a story of dating a transgendered person, just a transgender dating-story adjacent anecdote.  When my Zapchen coach, Laura Lund, told me the story of the love of her life, another woman, I assumed she was a lesbian.  Not so.  Turns out she met this woman, fell in love, and got married (spiritually if not legally) -- all this in spite of a markedly hetero sexual identity.  Her love eventually died but they had a deep and mutually fulfilling relationship.  I can´t imagine doing such a thing.  I can´t imagine being so tuned into the inner qualities of another person that I could joyfully put gender preferences aside.  What flexibility!  To my thinking, this is what having superpowers looks like.

What is zapchen?

 

your story confused me can you do the cliff notes version?

[liminal_luke]

Just now, Apech said:

What is zapchen?

 

your story confused me can you do the cliff notes version?

 

Zapchen (Zapchen Somatics) is a somatic wellness practice that combines simple childlike bodily movements (yawning, sighing, stretching, jiggling, etc) with elements of Buddhism.  It´s great stuff, imo, but not the important part of my anecdote.  My coach Laura fell in love with another woman and entered a relationship with her in spite of the fact that she remained sexually attracted to men. I found this inspiring, a little weird but inspiring.   

[Apech]

21 minutes ago, liminal_luke said:

 

Zapchen (Zapchen Somatics) is a somatic wellness practice that combines simple childlike bodily movements (yawning, sighing, stretching, jiggling, etc) with elements of Buddhism.  It´s great stuff, imo, but not the important part of my anecdote.  My coach Laura fell in love with another woman and entered a relationship with her in spite of the fact that she remained sexually attracted to men. I found this inspiring, a little weird but inspiring.   

Actually I find that quite normal.  Love should always be to the person and not their attributes.  
 

on the other hand Buddhism and gurgling like a baby is a bit odd 😃

[Maddie]

18 minutes ago, Apech said:

Actually I find that quite normal.  Love should always be to the person and not their attributes.  
 

on the other hand Buddhism and gurgling like a baby is a bit odd 😃

 

The "Happy Buddha" 

[doc benway]

I haven’t dated nor am I related to a trans-person. I have a friend who I’ve only known post transition. She is one of the most intrepid and courageous persons I know. Her transition seemed to free her to allow deeper parts to emerge. She travels continuously. She discovered she is a shaman and was initiated in Siberia. I can’t say I’m close enough to really know her intimately but I certainly feel the warmth of her connection to the source and feel grateful to know her. 

 

On a tangent, I just watched a film called Frybread Face & Me - beautiful and deeply moving film about a young “city Indian” sent to live with grandma on the Navajo rez. One theme is the boy’s gender ambivalence and experimentation. Highly recommended!

[Maddie]

I've noticed that since the original novelty of the thread wore off and the trolls either stopped trolling or got banned that it has quieted down and this in and of itself to me shows an important point. In spite of what some conservatives say (the trolls) most people don't really care what other people do with their lives, and I think that is nice :-).