LDT meditation without a teacher

[Chang dao ling]

18 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

Neidan is a made-up western word which means  1) the teaching of  alchemy, 2) the practice of  alchemy 3)  the product of  alchemy  (the  elixir).

These are 3 different things yet the westerners  lump  all 3 of them into one fake term

The westerners made up this  fake  term in order to delude themselves that they can  A) understand  the alchemy, B ) practice  the alchemy C) teach the alchemy - without ever D) producing the elixir.

 

To answer your question:

NO. For normal people, with or without a teacher, it is not possible. 

YES . For a particularly gifted, 1-in-a-billion person, it is possible .

This exceptional book explains " LDT meditation technique" for  virtue, health, power and wisdom in complete detail.

Who could  get these results from this book will be able to advance to neidan. 

Thanks for the book and and for providing LDT meditation technique 🙏

[Forestgreen]

11 hours ago, stirling said:

 

IS it "about saving all sentient beings"? If not, then what?

It seems like many meditative traditions prefer to teach simpler methods to the public. Perhaps because the methods we are talking about here tend to be destabilising, and therefore not all sentinent beings should engage in.

11 hours ago, stirling said:

 

Is there only ONE set of practices that might bring about this result? 

The descriptions in hindu yoga, tibetan buddhism and daoist tradition do overlap. Not at the beginner level, but later on.

11 hours ago, stirling said:

 

Why would these teachings be secret?

1) Because they are destabilising to the self.

2) Teachers are maybe not so self-less after all.

11 hours ago, stirling said:

 

You could tell me that this is Tibetan Buddhism and I would buy it. These messages, while couched differently, are entirely familiar.

Should be, since they are based on similar principles.

[Taoist Texts]

9 hours ago, stirling said:

 

OK then. I feel this coming together.  So I no longer have a "self" and have the day to day experience of "form is emptiness/emptiness is form". There is just objectless "beingness", but I haven't seen any luminous gold or red shiny balls precipitate.

Right. Here comes the bitter pill. We, the neidanists, presumptuously consider ourselves the real buddhists because buddhism is 1/3 of neidan. And we have a special word for what the modern buddhists are doing: stubborn emptiness. Modern buddhists use it as well but they dont know what it really means

https://terebess.hu/english/hsin3.html

 “stubborn emptiness” (wan kong 頑空, also “biased emptiness”).

And what it really means is that while your conscious mind is being self-less and object-less, your subconscious mind is feverishly spinning behind the scenes blocking the neidan

9 hours ago, stirling said:

What would cause one to do so? Where would one see or find such a thing?

yeah its a toughie. There is no guarantee whatsoever that it is possible for you or anyone else, OR that you or anyone will not hurt himself trying, but like i said the info is abundant. try reading from page 174 to 208

https://terebess.hu/zen/mesterek/the-secrets-of-chinese-meditation.pdf

also @ChiDragon maybe you can repost your  experience on abdomen breath for our friend here

9 hours ago, stirling said:

This reminds me of some of the stories about the remains of dead Tibetan masters, and how the leave "pearls" after death:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Śarīra#

Exactly, sarira is another name for neidan

[oak]

18 hours ago, silent thunder said:

Rivers and Insects and Trees.  Oh my!

 

I've recently lost my appetite for meat because of my dog... and the bitch is a carnivore. How unexpected and ironic life is. Even so I had a laugh with your post above.

[snowymountains]

7 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

And what it really means is that while your conscious mind is being self-less and object-less, your subconscious mind is feverishly spinning behind the scenes blocking the neidan

yeah its a toughie. 

 

I can't comment on whether it blocks the neidan in specific, as I don't practice Taoism, but indeed that's the glaring gap that insight meditation/shikantaza and open awareness practices leave open, unconscious processes.

 

They don't leave it 100% as a gap of course as e.g. even baseline mindfulness ie sensing a bodily reaction next to a person provides some contact with unconscious processing.

 

There has been discussion on other threads that eg latent memories may come to surface etc that is all true.

However it's not the full power of the unconscious, which can never be fully brought to consciousness as-is, there simply aren't enough brain layers there at the outer layers which compose the conscious mind to store everything in the inner ones.

 

Open awareness practices are excellent but deep unconscious processes will stay under the radar ( automatic reactions will also stay under the radar ), it's those deep processes that drive fundamental changes in life or how someone approaches life.

 

The unconscious doesn't understand time, only "now" is highly symbolic and "decoding" the symbolism is what translates its message.

 

Now as to if that blocks neidan, it blocks a ton of things in life when the unconscious and the conscious are not aligned, so it wouldn't be a surprise if it blocks a spiritual goal.

 

To give credit though as these practices do quiet the mind, this also increases the amount of times someone acts based on what the unconscious is suggesting.

What's needed to unlock the full power of the unconscious though, extends beyond that.

 

[Tosti]

On 4/26/2024 at 3:39 PM, Taoist Texts said:

well yes when the neidan appears you are indeed without self/awareness. But here being is the neidan

if by form you will mean the literal form of a literal thing then yes

well it sounds outlandish  but it is a literal new thing in your body: varying between a luminous golden pearl (or a millet grain) to a bright red shiny tangerine-sized ball.

And if one sees an orange-red ball or a green ball with slow-motion "flames" outside the body? What can this mean, if anything?

[gj551]

.

Edited June 6 by gj551

[Taoist Texts]

4 hours ago, Tosti said:

And if one sees an orange-red ball or a green ball with slow-motion "flames" outside the body? What can this mean, if anything?

means whoever sees this managed to calm down his mind sufficiently so his mind registers the internal nerve impulse of the optic nerve. Then the mind objectifies it as an external image.

Edited April 28 by Taoist Texts

[snowymountains]

13 hours ago, Tosti said:

And if one sees an orange-red ball or a green ball with slow-motion "flames" outside the body? What can this mean, if anything?

 

The ball may even eventually cover everything and then you will be at 1st Jhana.

This is not symbolic, it's a sign/flagpost for meditation progression.

( The colour doesn't matter much and is different for each meditator )

[stirling]

On 4/26/2024 at 10:52 PM, Forestgreen said:

1) Because they are destabilising to the self.

 

Too late to worry about that.

 

On 4/26/2024 at 11:22 PM, Taoist Texts said:

Right. Here comes the bitter pill. We, the neidanists, presumptuously consider ourselves the real buddhists because buddhism is 1/3 of neidan. And we have a special word for what the modern buddhists are doing: stubborn emptiness. Modern buddhists use it as well but they dont know what it really means

https://terebess.hu/english/hsin3.html

 “stubborn emptiness” (wan kong 頑空, also “biased emptiness”).

And what it really means is that while your conscious mind is being self-less and object-less, your subconscious mind is feverishly spinning behind the scenes blocking the neidan

 

Post arhat, a subconscious mind would be impossible from my perspective.

 

On 4/26/2024 at 11:22 PM, Taoist Texts said:

yeah its a toughie. There is no guarantee whatsoever that it is possible for you or anyone else, OR that you or anyone will not hurt himself trying, but like i said the info is abundant. try reading from page 174 to 208

https://terebess.hu/zen/mesterek/the-secrets-of-chinese-meditation.pdf

also @ChiDragon maybe you can repost your  experience on abdomen breath for our friend here

Exactly, sarira is another name for neidan

 

I appreciate the link to the text, thank you. I am traveling,  visiting my sangha in the city I moved from a few years ago, but will definitely check it out. I appreciate your generosity with this information. Definitely connecting some dots in the understanding of Taoist practices. 

[stirling]

On 4/26/2024 at 10:52 PM, Forestgreen said:

It seems like many meditative traditions prefer to teach simpler methods to the public. Perhaps because the methods we are talking about here tend to be destabilising, and therefore not all sentinent beings should engage in.

 

Yes, I see. There are definitely differently opinions about such things in most traditions, certainly including both the Nyingma and Soto Zen traditions I have worked in. Still formulating my own opinions about that to some degree. 

 

On 4/26/2024 at 10:52 PM, Forestgreen said:

The descriptions in hindu yoga, tibetan buddhism and daoist tradition do overlap. Not at the beginner level, but later on.

 

This has been my experience too. 

[Cobie]

On 27/04/2024 at 8:22 AM, Taoist Texts said:

… 頑空, also “biased emptiness”).

And what it really means is that while your conscious mind is being self-less and object-less, your subconscious mind is feverishly spinning behind the scenes blocking the neidan

 

Very recognisable that, did that for many years.  ‘Stupid’ indeed.  Live and learn.  

 

 

 

 

[EFreethought]

On 4/26/2024 at 5:14 AM, Taoist Texts said:

This exceptional book explains " LDT meditation technique" for  virtue, health, power and wisdom in complete detail.

Who could  get these results from this book will be able to advance to neidan. 

 

I think you have also said good things about a couple of books by Charles Luk. Should this book be read before or after the Luk books?

 

[Taoist Texts]

2 hours ago, EFreethought said:

I think you have also said good things about a couple of books by Charles Luk. Should this book be read before or after the Luk books?

yes definetely before because it is so simple yet comprehensive

then you can read this one of Luk which is more complicated:  The Secrets of Chinese Meditation.

finally this one of his which is horribly complicated and badly translated, yet very valuable: Taoist Yoga, Alchemy, and Immortality.

[EFreethought]

6 hours ago, Taoist Texts said:

yes definetely before because it is so simple yet comprehensive

then you can read this one of Luk which is more complicated:  The Secrets of Chinese Meditation.

finally this one of his which is horribly complicated and badly translated, yet very valuable: Taoist Yoga, Alchemy, and Immortality.

Thanks for the info.

 

[Maddie]

Does anyone ever feel their LDT start tingling/buzzing for no reason, just randomly? 

[Chang dao ling]

On 5/8/2024 at 4:59 AM, Maddie said:

Does anyone ever feel their LDT start tingling/buzzing for no reason, just randomly? 

I don't think this will happen randomly. These things happen as you progress in LDT meditation 

[johndoe2012]

LDT meditation without focus on relaxation (sung) and resolving emotional issues can lead to bad results.

[silent thunder]

On 5/7/2024 at 4:29 PM, Maddie said:

Does anyone ever feel their LDT start tingling/buzzing for no reason, just randomly? 

It does feel random, though one of my teachers regularly asserts to questions of this nature that while we may not be conscious of the process occuring, it's a natural function.  Much like the MCO when it arises of its own accord (not forced).

 

For some years now I get a strong rhythmic magnetic buzzing and downward flow at the MDT (always during daylight hours and often after exertion when I sit to rest), along with occasional thrumming in the Lower and Upper.

 

Unless there are accompanying problematic issues, I'd not be concerned and chalk it up to the natural work occuring, but I've nothing more specific to offer sorry.

 

edit to add:  My LDT awoke seemingly randomly at the age of 15 during a telephone conversation with a friend and years before I ever started any formal internal training or even was familiar with the concept for what it's worth...

Edited May 15 by silent thunder