The power of Russian love

[Taomeow]

2 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

Given that there are so many martial arts practitioners here.

 

How do people feel about Putin holding black belts in judo, karate and tae kwon do?
 

If more world leaders trained in martial arts, perhaps there would be fewer wars is one thought I have had.

 

His taekwondo ranking was honorary (unlike in the other martial arts), he got it from the World Taekwondo Federation (which is known to have given it to other leaders it liked) when things were good between South Korea and Russia, but then they took it away as part of the sanctions.  He practiced martial arts since age 11.  I don't think it would help though if more world leaders trained in MA -- they used to, in the olden days, but wars be warring.  Although a karate match between Trump and Biden is something I'd definitely buy a ticket to see.  At the very least choosing a winner in this olden-days fashion would have been no less meaningful than the modern way, and much cheaper for the taxpayers.   

[blue eyed snake]

1 hour ago, Taomeow said:

 

And I will counter with, 

 

it's NOT OK anymore in the 21st century to casually insult people of color in the style of the 19th century.  Toward Russians it is STILL OK and encouraged and pretty much unchanged.       

 

I caught myself "yes but-ting"

 

You're right.

 

were does it come from?

I am from Europe, my parents lived through WW2 as young adults, I know their fear for Russia(ns) never faded but in the last part of their life the emotions towards Germans seem to have disappeared.

 

[Apech]

9 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

I caught myself "yes but-ting"

 

You're right.

 

were does it come from?

I am from Europe, my parents lived through WW2 as young adults, I know their fear for Russia(ns) never faded but in the last part of their life the emotions towards Germans seem to have disappeared.

 

Luckily no one insults the English.

 

 

[blue eyed snake]

54 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

 

His taekwondo ranking was honorary (unlike in the other martial arts), he got it from the World Taekwondo Federation (which is known to have given it to other leaders it liked) when things were good between South Korea and Russia, but then they took it away as part of the sanctions.  He practiced martial arts since age 11.  I don't think it would help though if more world leaders trained in MA -- they used to, in the olden days, but wars be warring.  Although a karate match between Trump and Biden is something I'd definitely buy a ticket to see.  At the very least choosing a winner in this olden-days fashion would have been no less meaningful than the modern way, and much cheaper for the taxpayers.   

 

My teacher also taught Karate, he was at a high level in Karate. Once he told us that the important thing teaching those lads was to instill a sense of care in them. To make them act responsible.

[Taomeow]

14 minutes ago, Apech said:

Luckily no one insults the English.

 

 

 

Not even the French? 

 

A French friend of mine here in CA is Anglophilic to the core, and another one, who's British, who has dropped out of school at 15 and wouldn't be able to tell Shakespeare from Dickens if his life depended on, loves it here because people usually assume he's a college professor based on his accent alone.  Whereas I've witnessed another friend, a Russian, who IS a college professor (genetics), treated by strangers as an uncouth ignoramus and talked down to like she's 5.  

  

How did you guys pull it off?  

[Sanity Check]

1 hour ago, Taomeow said:

 

His taekwondo ranking was honorary (unlike in the other martial arts), he got it from the World Taekwondo Federation (which is known to have given it to other leaders it liked) when things were good between South Korea and Russia, but then they took it away as part of the sanctions.  He practiced martial arts since age 11.  I don't think it would help though if more world leaders trained in MA -- they used to, in the olden days, but wars be warring.  Although a karate match between Trump and Biden is something I'd definitely buy a ticket to see.  At the very least choosing a winner in this olden-days fashion would have been no less meaningful than the modern way, and much cheaper for the taxpayers.   

 

Putin was stripped of his TKD black belt due to sanctions? Hahaha.

 

Have you noticed those who never trained martial arts lean towards having exaggerated ideas of what they're capable of.

 

They think that they'll easily win any conflict. They've never tested themselves enough to know what reality is.

 

This leads to them being too aggressive and too overconfident in a way that spills over to their foreign policy.

 

Had they trained & been tested, they might have known it was wise to reel in that hot headedness.

 

[Taomeow]

8 minutes ago, Sanity Check said:

 

Putin was stripped of his TKD black belt due to sanctions? Hahaha.

 

Have you noticed those who never trained martial arts lean towards having exaggerated ideas of what they're capable of.

 

They think that they'll easily win any conflict. They've never tested themselves enough to know what reality is.

 

This leads to them being too aggressive and too overconfident in a way that spills over to their foreign policy.

 

Had they trained & been tested, they might have known it was wise to reel in that hot headedness.

 

 

That's what Joe Rogan opined in one of his podcasts I recall.  He asserts that his MA friends and acquaintances who are accomplished fighters are the chillest folks ever in everyday life.  They let off all the steam and release all their aggressive impulses in training and sparring, and lose the need to act them out in their interactions with others outside the training hall.   

Edited May 5 by Taomeow

[Apech]

26 minutes ago, Taomeow said:

 

Not even the French? 

 

A French friend of mine here in CA is Anglophilic to the core, and another one, who's British, who has dropped out of school at 15 and wouldn't be able to tell Shakespeare from Dickens if his life depended on, loves it here because people usually assume he's a college professor based on his accent alone.  Whereas I've witnessed another friend, a Russian, who IS a college professor (genetics), treated by strangers as an uncouth ignoramus and talked down to like she's 5.  

  

How did you guys pull it off?  

With irony of course.  
 

PS with the possible exception of Sweden and somewhere forgettable in Sputh America there isn’t a country in the world we haven’t fought, invaded or screwed over in some way.

 

 

[Taomeow]

59 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

I caught myself "yes but-ting"

 

You're right.

 

were does it come from?

I am from Europe, my parents lived through WW2 as young adults, I know their fear for Russia(ns) never faded but in the last part of their life the emotions towards Germans seem to have disappeared.

 

 

Since WW2 so many well-promoted books, articles, movies, TV series etc. appeared which depicted how scary, ugly, stupid, drunk Russians, in the nearest future, will unleash their troops and bears and balalaikas on this or that innocent country that it's small wonder.  It's institutionalized bias, not something grass roots.  But with the Germans, it's the opposite?

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

[blue eyed snake]

1 hour ago, Taomeow said:

 

Since WW2 so many well-promoted books, articles, movies, TV series etc. appeared which depicted how scary, ugly, stupid, drunk Russians, in the nearest future, will unleash their troops and bears and balalaikas on this or that innocent country that it's small wonder.  It's institutionalized bias, not something grass roots.  But with the Germans, it's the opposite?

 

 

  

 

 

 

 

 

yes regarding the depiction of Russians in books and films

 

But remember my parents lived during German occupation, my dad lived in Rotterdam and was there while it was flattened by bombs, half of the war he spend hidden between floors and such. His cousin was caught, the last winter all of western netherlands was hungry and many died because there was no food and no ways to heat the houses. I do not know how many friends they lost during those years, they never told me. But for them remembrance day was definitely very personal losses. Also the germans had stolen everything they could during the occupation so it was years of work and hardship to put the country back on its feet.

 

So there was a good and personal reason to be very critical on the Germans and I remember that from my early years.

"lets not sit there" ( in a restaurant) those are Germans.

still these perpetrators were slowly getting back in a groove called friendly neighbors

[Lois]

On 03.05.2024 at 6:55 PM, Maddie said:

I find this topic "interesting" since my ex was Russian lol. I can tell you all about how Russian's "love" haha. 

 

[Taomeow]

@blue eyed snake Thanks for telling the story.  I didn't know it was this bad in the Netherlands, by the way...  There's never been a thread here that I recall dedicated to WW2 -- everybody is too young to have been part of it personally (I think), but family, previous generations -- some of us heard many first-hand accounts of what it was like.  Tragic, heroic, terrifying, or just "during the war we sometimes couldn't even buy chicken for a reasonable price" (an American relative of mine, my mom's cousin, sharing memories of wartime privations).  I think it might be interesting to start such a thread sometime.  

[Apech]

Just now, Taomeow said:

@blue eyed snake Thanks for telling the story.  I didn't know it was this bad in the Netherlands, by the way...  There's never been a thread here that I recall dedicated to WW2 -- everybody is too young to have been part of it personally (I think), but family, previous generations -- some of us heard many first-hand accounts of what it was like.  Tragic, heroic, terrifying, or just "during the war we sometimes couldn't even buy chicken for a reasonable price" (an American relative of mine, my mom's cousin, sharing memories of wartime privations).  I think it might be interesting to start such a thread sometime.  

It would be interesting- the war loomed large over my childhood (as a recent memory of my family and so on - even I am too young to actually remember it).

 

It certainly changed the world forever.

[blue eyed snake]

this is Rotterdam in 1930, the city were my dad grew up, he was 10 in 1930. He walked those street, probably doing the things that boys do at that age, hanging out at the kays, looking at the ships.

start at 4.30  the first part is panoramic.

 

Spoiler

 

this is what happened when he was 20, when I saw ( and see) ruined cities in Ukraine or gaza I always see the pain in my dads eyes.

My mom was at home with her mom and her younger sister in a town close by Rotterdam, they could see and hear the bombs falling and my gran had to grab my mom preventing her running towards the city that held her lover. Gramp had died shortly before, much too young from a nasty illness.

 

"Whether he lives or is dead, I will not let you run into an untimely death, you stay here"

 

dad came out of it, physically unscarred but it kept living on in him, in his soul.

 

That is why all the current wars hurt me so, so many people will be maimed and dead and their homes destroyed and for generations the trauma will carry on.

 

They will carry the pain in their souls for generations.

 

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxYFUfYeQIQ

 

 

and then the last winter, the Germans were inevitably losing but they kept up in the western half of the netherlands, traditionally the richest part of my country, Rotterdam was and is a big harbor which is teeming with activity.

 

My mom, then 22 arranged for her younger sister ( around 15 i think) to be brought to family in a rural part and although granny opposed it, it happened as she said and my aunt went to a farm were there was food.

 

that winter was very cold and there was hardly anything to make fire and there was no food, people went out to farms to beg for food, or to barter for jewelry, anything.

Flowerbulbs were eaten

 

my mom never really wanted to tell things from the war but this she told me: one day we had a slice of bread, one slice for several people so we carefully divided that slice in as many parts as there were people ( 8 i think) and we were all slowly chewing and savoring the taste of real bread. Then someone knocked on the door and came in. We all felt guilty because he could not share in the bread anymore.

 

one bite of bread ...

 

the dutch winter of hunger - 1944-1945

Spoiler

https://www.hongerwinter.nl/portfolio-item/531/

 

when I see pictures of Gazan children, i see this too

 

later, much later I did talk a bit about it with my mom, she told me of 1962, the year of the Cuba crisis. That she was so scared, what possessed me she told me, to intentionally become pregnant again, how will we take care of 5 children and a new baby when war rolls over us again. We hardly survived when there was only the 2 of us.

 

that way war trauma flips over to the next generation, we did not live through it, but we were reared with parents who did and we came off lightly I guess.

 

The babysit of my son had no family except for her parents, all family of the parents had been killed in concentration-camps, i shudder to think about it, what imprint that leaves.

 

 

[Apech]

19 minutes ago, blue eyed snake said:

this is Rotterdam in 1930, the city were my dad grew up, he was 10 in 1930. He walked those street, probably doing the things that boys do at that age, hanging out at the kays, looking at the ships.

start at 4.30  the first part is panoramic.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

this is what happened when he was 20, when I saw ( and see) ruined cities in Ukraine or gaza I always see the pain in my dads eyes.

My mom was at home with her mom and her younger sister in a town close by Rotterdam, they could see and hear the bombs falling and my gran had to grab my mom preventing her running towards the city that held her lover. Gramp had died shortly before, much too young from a nasty illness.

 

"Whether he lives or is dead, I will not let you run into an untimely death, you stay here"

 

dad came out of it, physically unscarred but it kept living on in him, in his soul.

 

That is why all the current wars hurt me so, so many people will be maimed and dead and their homes destroyed and for generations the trauma will carry on.

 

They will carry the pain in their souls for generations.

 

  Reveal hidden contents

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MxYFUfYeQIQ

 

 

and then the last winter, the Germans were inevitably losing but they kept up in the western half of the netherlands, traditionally the richest part of my country, Rotterdam was and is a big harbor which is teeming with activity.

 

My mom, then 22 arranged for her younger sister ( around 15 i think) to be brought to family in a rural part and although granny opposed it, it happened as she said and my aunt went to a farm were there was food.

 

that winter was very cold and there was hardly anything to make fire and there was no food, people went out to farms to beg for food, or to barter for jewelry, anything.

Flowerbulbs were eaten

 

my mom never really wanted to tell things from the war but this she told me: one day we had a slice of bread, one slice for several people so we carefully divided that slice in as many parts as there were people ( 8 i think) and we were all slowly chewing and savoring the taste of real bread. Then someone knocked on the door and came in. We all felt guilty because he could not share in the bread anymore.

 

one bite of bread ...

 

the dutch winter of hunger - 1944-1945

  Reveal hidden contents

https://www.hongerwinter.nl/portfolio-item/531/

 

when I see pictures of Gazan children, i see this too

 

later, much later I did talk a bit about it with my mom, she told me of 1962, the year of the Cuba crisis. That she was so scared, what possessed me she told me, to intentionally become pregnant again, how will we take care of 5 children and a new baby when war rolls over us again. We hardly survived when there was only the 2 of us.

 

that way war trauma flips over to the next generation, we did not live through it, but we were reared with parents who did and we came off lightly I guess.

 

The babysit of my son had no family except for her parents, all family of the parents had been killed in concentration-camps, i shudder to think about it, what imprint that leaves.

 

 

 

Although I have no harrowing stories like this I have the same feeling about Ukraine and Gaza ... even WWI was called 'the war to end all wars' and even more after Nuremberg they swore there would be peace, that we loved peace - but now it seems we have forgotten.  I think if we had a thread on WWII you would have to put up with my historical musings about why and what are the causes of these disasters ...  I would like to talk about it but fear to go there.

 

 

[blue eyed snake]

1 hour ago, Apech said:

 

Although I have no harrowing stories like this I have the same feeling about Ukraine and Gaza ... even WWI was called 'the war to end all wars' and even more after Nuremberg they swore there would be peace, that we loved peace - but now it seems we have forgotten.  I think if we had a thread on WWII you would have to put up with my historical musings about why and what are the causes of these disasters ...  I would like to talk about it but fear to go there.

 

 

 

the harrowing stories were on top, yesterday remembrance day was.

today was freedomday

 

Spoiler

 

 

for the first time in my life I did not attend, I am not able to go out but I did not look at the telly either.

 

I do not want to see someone from a party that fulfills almost all the characteristics of fascism to lay a wreath for the fallen.

I do fear for my country, for Europe and I would like to hear your musings.

 

so maybe @steve can snip this off starting with my long post and title it: WW2, what it means for us and how to proceed.

[Nungali]

20 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

George Orwell, "1984."  It was the rationale offered for perpetual wars between the three major superpowers owning the world -- Oceania, Eurasia, and Eastasia.  

 

   okay, I didnt realize you where talking fiction .   Some places in 'Oceania'  seem to be getting on well with China at the moment ..... post 1984.

[Nungali]

11 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

Given that there are so many martial arts practitioners here.

 

How do people feel about Putin holding black belts in judo, karate and tae kwon do?
 

If more world leaders trained in martial arts, perhaps there would be fewer wars is one thought I have had.

 

Put it this way .   You own a karate academy in Russia .  Are you going to tell anyone Putin got a dodgy black belt years back ?

 

if you do , dont stand near a window . 

[Nungali]

9 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

His taekwondo ranking was honorary (unlike in the other martial arts), he got it from the World Taekwondo Federation (which is known to have given it to other leaders it liked) when things were good between South Korea and Russia, but then they took it away as part of the sanctions.  He practiced martial arts since age 11.  I don't think it would help though if more world leaders trained in MA -- they used to, in the olden days, but wars be warring.  Although a karate match between Trump and Biden is something I'd definitely buy a ticket to see.  At the very least choosing a winner in this olden-days fashion would have been no less meaningful than the modern way, and much cheaper for the taxpayers.   

 

Any matches with American presidents should be done within the style of their national sport ..... not martial arts  :

 

( I'm thinking WWF - wrestling )

 

[Nungali]

8 hours ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

My teacher also taught Karate, he was at a high level in Karate. Once he told us that the important thing teaching those lads was to instill a sense of care in them. To make them act responsible.

 

He did did he ?     Instill a sense of care by teaching them karate ?       

 

I can think of a few other things that might instill a sense of care other than  that !   

 

Typical misconception multiplied by a  business owner that is  mostly being used by kids nowadays and has a high client turnover .

[Nungali]

6 hours ago, blue eyed snake said:

 

yes regarding the depiction of Russians in books and films

 

But remember my parents lived during German occupation, my dad lived in Rotterdam and was there while it was flattened by bombs, half of the war he spend hidden between floors and such. His cousin was caught, the last winter all of western netherlands was hungry and many died because there was no food and no ways to heat the houses. I do not know how many friends they lost during those years, they never told me. But for them remembrance day was definitely very personal losses. Also the germans had stolen everything they could during the occupation so it was years of work and hardship to put the country back on its feet.

 

So there was a good and personal reason to be very critical on the Germans and I remember that from my early years.

"lets not sit there" ( in a restaurant) those are Germans.

still these perpetrators were slowly getting back in a groove called friendly neighbors

 

 

Many years back when dear old mum was still alive , I took my soon to be wife to meet her :

 

"Mum ,  this is  Barbera ." 

"Pleased to meet you .... and you are .... German ?"

" Nice to meet you, yes I am . "

" Ohhhh .... well, thats all right then , we have forgotten all about that . "

- she offered tea and when she left to make it ;

Barbera (hushed )  " What was that about ?"

Me; " The war . "

B; " What war ? "

Me; " WWII. "

B ; " Ohhhhhhh   ....  " 

 

  

 

' forgotten' about it had you  ?  

[Nungali]

8 hours ago, Apech said:

Luckily no one insults the English.

 

 

 

 

 

I hope that when I insult you, you dont think I am doing it because you are English  ?  

 

 

Spoiler

 

 

[Apech]

5 minutes ago, Nungali said:

 

 

 

I hope that when I insult you, you dont think I am doing it because you are English  ?  

 

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

The English practice insult aikido  - when the insult arrives they assume you are just insulting them because you recognize their natural superiority and so the insult becomes praise.

 

 

[Taomeow]

6 hours ago, Apech said:

 

Although I have no harrowing stories like this I have the same feeling about Ukraine and Gaza ... even WWI was called 'the war to end all wars' and even more after Nuremberg they swore there would be peace, that we loved peace - but now it seems we have forgotten.  I think if we had a thread on WWII you would have to put up with my historical musings about why and what are the causes of these disasters ...  I would like to talk about it but fear to go there.

 

 

 

I thought twice about it too after you mentioned that you "fear to go there."  I haven't got as much steam for "controversial" subjects as I used to.  And way too many stories to tell on top of that...  no steam for telling them because not every political climate allows for the  freedom of, um, speech (among other things), and the current one is very evocative of what I used to know and hate and fear in the Soviet Union.  Just the flip side of the same counterfeit coin.  

 

So, I'm not sure it was a good idea after all...  

 

  

[Apech]

7 hours ago, Taomeow said:

 

I thought twice about it too after you mentioned that you "fear to go there."  I haven't got as much steam for "controversial" subjects as I used to.  And way too many stories to tell on top of that...  no steam for telling them because not every political climate allows for the  freedom of, um, speech (among other things), and the current one is very evocative of what I used to know and hate and fear in the Soviet Union.  Just the flip side of the same counterfeit coin.  

 

So, I'm not sure it was a good idea after all...  

 

  

 

Gosh that makes me want to know even more what you were going to say.

 

I was remembering that my father used to speak very fondly of the Russians (he also had some links to Russian academics) and that he recalled a fairly famous scientist called Dirac who used to toast every Russian victory in 1940's Cambridge.  There was a definite sense in Britain before the Cold War really set in that Russia was our saviour against fascism.  The US also but the sacrifice made by the Soviets was so much greater.

 

He also told me that in around 1970 he went as a delegate to the Russian embassy in London and all the staff greeted them by saying 'we believe in peace, don't you too?' - he was very impressed by this.  Being me, I did point out that only two years before the tanks had rolled into Prague ... but it didn't seem to damped his enthusiasm.