Where are all the martial artists at?

[Elysium]

Ladies and gentleman and myriad of all kinds of beings, I am assuming there are a lot of you who are practicing a martial art.

 

So I am wondering if I may hear your story? Which are do you hail from? How long has your journey been? How many arts have you gone through?

 

That being said I am not interested in "my art is better than you" or "this won't work in streets" business, and I sure hope everyone who contributes are on same page.

 

Me, regretably I haven't had experience in any, I should have joined one in my teens, its a shame. I will be enrolling in a Kyokushin dojo after this summer for sure. Long overdue.

[Nintendao]

Nice! Well in the 80's I got pretty confident with a staff by imitating Little John of Robin Hood's Merry Men and Donatello of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles.

 

Then in the 90's I learned Tai Chi from David Carradine and Kam Yuen.

https://youtu.be/IIIrb5vxmcQ 

 

In the 2000's a coworker saw me randomly standing in horse stance during a break. He later confided in me that he used to teach Ving Tsun in the Moy Yat lineage. I spent the next few years learning as much as I could from him.

 

After that I focus on internal training, taking Qi Gong correspondence courses from Hu Xuezhi on Mt. Wudang, and Dr. Wu Dhi on Miami Beach. Since 2020 my practice continues to be a Neigung transmitted by Daniel Kim, the disciple of Yang Style Tai Chi Master Gabriel Chin.

[Taoist Texts]

1 hour ago, Elysium said:

practicing a martial art.

 

So I am wondering if I may hear your story? Which are do you hail from? How long has your journey been?

well you see there are old martial artists....and there are bold martial artists...

[Elysium]

57 minutes ago, Nintendao said:

Then in the 90's I learned Tai Chi from David Carradine and Kam Yuen.

https://youtu.be/IIIrb5vxmcQ 

Jesus the song in the background is a little too much for me 😹

 

 

[Nungali]

On 05/05/2024 at 11:29 PM, Elysium said:

Ladies and gentleman and myriad of all kinds of beings, I am assuming there are a lot of you who are practicing a martial art.

 

So I am wondering if I may hear your story? Which are do you hail from? How long has your journey been? How many arts have you gone through?

 

Australia .  Started at school  40+ years back  ( with some training gaps throughout that ) .  Started with a bit of wrestling and ju-jitsu at Police Boys Club then went into  Shotokan 'old school' (as lessons started in school gym after school )  .  Then Sikiran ( a Filipino  style of karate based on an indigenous foot fighting art ). A bit of Silat  followed by many years of Aki-kai aikido ( that also uses three weapons ; short staff wooden sword and dagger ) .  Then I got into a form of Shorin-Ryu Okinawan karate ... which I realised had been 'corrupted ' (or, seemed to have a hidden or internal style and teaching -   Also some kobudo went along with this ;  boken -wooden sword,  short and long staff, sickles, boat oar, sai  and others ). So then my journey was to find this 'internal style' .

 

My instructor at the time had trained with our teacher , but he passed on before I met him (and I had not started yet when he  came to Australia)/ So I tottaly picked instructors brains on teacher , travelled around and met and talked to and traine with  others that had . Examined ilm footage they had of him and other things . Then I started putting it all together .  teacher also encouraged people to 'study' , not just practice ; this means history, research, culture, etc . Thats needed to get a bigger picture .

 

So I became aware of what the original form was and what influences changed it and why and what it has become today .

 

In short, what I stared doing and realising was an older version , a more 'realistic  version'   than the modern 'art forms' or sport applications .

 

Then I got old .  Some body and health issues ; I had to give up proper aikido practice - no more diving over three kneeling people and gracefully rolling on the other side to a standing up position ... no more grappling and being jerked around in an unpredictable manner  and no hard core solid impact stuff , especially kicking - I got a hip implant now .   I can well coach and give seminars though ... thing is I dont really know anyone that is interested in this stuff any more .

 

 

 

On 05/05/2024 at 11:29 PM, Elysium said:

 

That being said I am not interested in "my art is better than you" or "this won't work in streets" business, and I sure hope everyone who contributes are on same page.

 

Hmmmm ... I suppose that depends on your why and  what your focus is .... if it IS to defend yourself on the street , then I might say that . If it is to  get fit, or some experience or to practice the 'art ' then 'not working' on the street is  an insignificant aspect .

 

So what are you interested in discussing , aside from our experiences ?

 

 

 

On 05/05/2024 at 11:29 PM, Elysium said:

 

Me, regretably I haven't had experience in any, I should have joined one in my teens, its a shame. I will be enrolling in a Kyokushin dojo after this summer for sure. Long overdue.

 

I hope you dont mind being kicked in the head ?    I am a bit averse to full contact kicks in the head ... man, what I do has been considered hard core ... we often got injured, some people didnt want t train with us ... too 'rough' , but I am not up for full contact kicks in the head thanks . Then again, even within a style,  some clubs work very differently . I see that some kyokusin  clubs say they give the kids head protection to protect their young brains . 

[Sanity Check]

I've always wanted to learn & study formally.

 

But avoided it due to being too hot headed.

 

If I was in shape & sparring in the gym I could see myself being someone who fights more, rather than less.

 

I've seen people win street fights only to be ambushed & hit on the head with a hammer by the guy who lost the fight a few weeks later. The path of drama & violence isn't necessarily a smart option. 

 

Earlier this year there was a scuffle around 8 miles up the road where the loser later burned down the house of the guy who won the fight.

 

So I avoid anything to do with drama and that bs.

 

But I have done a little training & sparring on my own. And tried to avoid being illiterate.

 

 

 

[Elysium]

3 hours ago, Nungali said:

Hmmmm ... I suppose that depends on your why and  what your focus is .... if it IS to defend yourself on the street , then I might say that . If it is to  get fit, or some experience or to practice the 'art ' then 'not working' on the street is  an insignificant aspect .

 

So what are you interested in discussing , aside from our experiences

Well, I was interested in this even when a child, honestly can't figure out why I did not join in anything all these years.

 

Another big reason is that I want to be able to have more control of myself & just discover what I am overall. Obviously meditation helps on that area, BUT.... I think you get the point. I suppose I would try kickboxing if I really wanted a brawl in street. But a fight that hasn't happened in the street is a fight I won. Everything is risky, needlessly so. Of course I do wanna defend myself however, I mean who doesn't?

 

3 hours ago, Nungali said:

 

I hope you dont mind being kicked in the head ?    I am a bit averse to full contact kicks in the head ... man, what I do has been considered hard core ... we often got injured, some people didnt want t train with us ... too 'rough' , but I am not up for full contact kicks in the head thanks . Then again, even within a style,  some clubs work very differently . I see that some kyokusin  clubs say they give the kids head protection to protect their young brains . 

Man I don't know what to expect, I have to be honest. I don't have years of experience to spread wheat from chaff. Hopefully wherever I enroll will be good in quality with lots of pressure testing.

 

That being said it looks like pretty much all of the traditional martial arts got watered down and got turned more sporty. I don't like that, so there will be some scholarly digging in future .

[Elysium]

3 hours ago, Sanity Check said:

Earlier this year there was a scuffle around 8 miles up the road where the loser later burned down the house of the guy who won the fight.

I am hoping that de-escalating will be a lesson that is being taught there. I can see how this entire thing may get out of hand if I be a loud-mouth about this.

[RobB]

I practice Cheng style Bagua. My teacher has quite a martial focus but most of our group are not too interested in training with a great deal of martial intensity.

Edited May 7 by RobB
Felt that I was doing our group a disservice with my original text. Everyone is sincere and trains well - we're just not knocking each other about much.

[Elysium]

34 minutes ago, RobB said:

I practice Cheng style Bagua. My teacher has quite a martial focus but most of our group are too old or too abstract to really train that stuff properly.

Internal arts do look awesome, I wish I could find a teacher for those. It seems unlikely where I hail from though.

[silent thunder]

Best day to start training is just like the best day to plant a tree... twenty years ago.

Second best day is today.  Don't let the past keep you from the present I say.

 

That said... I started a bit late in life according to some @15 in a Korean style, Chung Moo Quan, but the foundation has served me well.  When my wife and I graduated University and moved to NYC from the Midwest, I met and studied with one of Bruce Lee's first generation students/inner door and trained in a combination of Jeet Kun Do and Shao Lin Five Animal.

 

When I left NYC for Los Angeles in 2000, I transitioned from hard martial arts to internal, due to a severe physical issue (nearly had my left foot amputated) that prevented hard style training and when recovered, returned to play my former forms as able to this day, though my emphasis is internal as I move on toward my 60's.

 

Jump in the pool I say and enjoy the process wherever you are.  It's an age like no other with many avenues to many styles available no matter where you are. 

 

Welcome to the Bums mate!

st 

 

 

[dwai]

I started in the old-school karate Goju Ryu style back in the 1990s. I trained in Hapkido and Aikido for a few years when I moved to the US. I also started learning Taichi around that time (back in 2000), and eventually, I dropped all hard martial arts. I stuck with Taichi (initially Yang style and then Temple style in the system of Master Waysun Liao—which is what I continue to practice to this day). 

 

[Elysium]

1 hour ago, silent thunder said:

Best day to start training is just like the best day to plant a tree... twenty years ago.

Second best day is today.  Don't let the past keep you from the present I say.

Damn right . Thank you for the encouragement. 

 

1 hour ago, silent thunder said:

, I met and studied with one of Bruce Lee's first generation students/inner door and trained in a combination of Jeet Kun Do and Shao Lin Five Animal.

Thats amazing! Say, did the JKD you have trained in had its own identity, or was it just a mix of different arts?

 

1 hour ago, silent thunder said:

training and when recovered, returned to play my former forms as able to this day, though my emphasis is internal as I move on toward my 60's.

As a senior, how do you think your body and mind would do at your age without martial arts I wonder?

 

1 hour ago, silent thunder said:

Jump in the pool I say and enjoy the process wherever you are.  It's an age like no other with many avenues to many styles available no matter where you are. 

 

Welcome to the Bums mate!

st 

Pleasure to learn from the experienced, and thank you very much 

 

[Taomeow]

I started late, first with taekwondo, and loved it.  Up to that point, everything I was ever good at was self taught -- I'm an avid learner but I hadn't been all that lucky with teachers of anything until then.  Absolutely no exceptions in school (where I was either afraid of, contemptuous of, or indifferent to my teachers), and just a few at the university.  So, it was my first-ever experience, and very late in the day at that, of feeling humbled by a teacher, seeing him as a role model, admiring his skill.  He spoke very rudimentary English, most of the verbal instructions were roared in Korean (as though the louder and scarier they were given, the better they would be understood and followed).  The overall approach was harsh bordering on merciless -- I felt as though I'd enlisted in the Korean army.  But there was this fountain of vitality about the whole thing, dynamic, raw, triumphant in its disregard for complaints and limitations that made me feel awesome afterwards.  In a few months I began transforming from a non-exercising woman used to feeling physically fragile, weak, vulnerable into someone who felt like "a woman of power."

 

I had to quit due to external circumstances -- and then I scored for the second time, and bigger, with my taiji teacher.  That was 20 years ago. (I won't go into that though, I've a pretty detailed taiji blog in my PPD...)

Edited May 7 by Taomeow

[Forestgreen]

On 2024-05-05 at 3:29 PM, Elysium said:

 I will be enrolling in a Kyokushin dojo 

That brings back memories.  Started my martial arts training with that, in 1989. I was young, insecure and unfit. 

They closed the dojo 18 months later, leaving me young, insecure, fit, and I still have the scars visible on my knuckles. 

A bit of aikido,  Bujinkan, taiji, and Shaolin before I lost interest in the martial side in 2008.  Still practice Shaolin, just not the martial side. 

[silent thunder]

4 hours ago, Elysium said:

Damn right . Thank you for the encouragement. 

 

Thats amazing! Say, did the JKD you have trained in had its own identity, or was it just a mix of different arts?

The JKD was widely varied and focused. On practical street applications of fundamentals.

 

The Shao Lin 5 Animal (with Wing Chun)side was the foundation.

4 hours ago, Elysium said:

 

As a senior, how do you think your body and mind would do at your age without martial arts I wonder?

Training has been Paramount to my quality of life now.  Particularly in the rehab from several years of being semi crippled/walking with a cane.

4 hours ago, Elysium said:

 

Pleasure to learn from the experienced, and thank you very much 

 

Peace friend.

[Nungali]

18 hours ago, Elysium said:

Well, I was interested in this even when a child, honestly can't figure out why I did not join in anything all these years.

 

Another big reason is that I want to be able to have more control of myself & just discover what I am overall. Obviously meditation helps on that area, BUT.... I think you get the point. I suppose I would try kickboxing if I really wanted a brawl in street. But a fight that hasn't happened in the street is a fight I won. Everything is risky, needlessly so. Of course I do wanna defend myself however, I mean who doesn't?

 

Man I don't know what to expect, I have to be honest. I don't have years of experience to spread wheat from chaff. Hopefully wherever I enroll will be good in quality with lots of pressure testing.

 

That being said it looks like pretty much all of the traditional martial arts got watered down and got turned more sporty. I don't like that, so there will be some scholarly digging in future .

 

Dig here when you want , its an area of specialty I studied

[Elysium]

On 08.05.2024 at 2:51 AM, Nungali said:

Dig here when you want , its an area of specialty I studied

Any sources you could recommend to me?

[Nungali]

On 5/7/2024 at 3:42 PM, Elysium said:

I am hoping that de-escalating will be a lesson that is being taught there.

I can see how this entire thing may get out of hand if I be a loud-mouth about this.

 

De-escalating   was a big part of what I had to learn , I worked as an Orderly in a big public hospital for 10 years  .... 'keeping order' amidst all types of situations  ....   force or violence not allowed  .  And the people often 'not reasonable' ; sick, confused , off face ,  drunk, psychotic , etc .

[Nungali]

8 hours ago, Elysium said:

Any sources you could recommend to me?

 

Well, I learnt from a whole heap of sources  and a lot of 'putting two and two together' . Some of it was also from teacher via private film footage .   There is the general history of the development of karate ,  but I  cant think of a good book.

 

'Shotokan's Secret ' isnt too bad bad what it outlines in there is applicable to a lot of Japanese styles , but it is faulty in part, only knowing part of the story . Its interesting as it is a project from some Shotokan Black Belts that started to realize 'something was up' .

 

However the book features more on the developments of  Itosu and how he started making karate modern . The other stream ( the one I studied ,)  came from Matsamura.  When the Samurai and class system was  stopped  ( and the King made defunct by a virtual Japanese takeover ) , the bodyguards , personal militia , and others similar  became unemployed and had to find ways to make an income .  Thats why Itosu did what he did ... He was one of the first 'marketers of martial arts' ,  took this and that and twisted and re formed it it  ( even to the extent it became a Physical Education program for Okinawan school children  ) . Matsamura kept it as it was but only taught it via  family linage  tradition .  Things where not good in Okinawa and Hohan Soken left after some time to go to Argentina . While there, karate devolved more at home and WWII happened , another hugely significant  influence on martial arts in Okinawa . Soken came home some time after the war with a preserved tradition that had not suffered the influences it had back home .

 

However I find some karate schools and teachers have picked up some of this stuff .  It is usually taught as self defense or even self defense last resort tactics . So there is a bit of 'reverse engineering ' going on  nowadays .

 

There is a youtube  that exposes a whole lot about modern karate from , of all people George Dillman , now I know Dilman is a  dick head  yet the story he tells totally discredits him  , so if it isnt a true story , at least partially,   why make up a story that shows how wrong and stupid you have been ?  Especially for a  ( as he became )  ' no touch  knockout' egotistical money making American . Also it features my teacher's teacher  Hohan Soken. . 
 

 

 

 

The cover is interesting , its a detail of King Sho meeting Commander Perry and his forces inside the Royal Place , Shuri Okinawa .

 

The two 'assistants' either side of the King  are also his personal body guards ; Matsamura and Itiso , both 'fathers' of multiple traditions that  came out of their practice .  The  branch from Matsamura family  tradition went   'Bushi'   Matsamura >  Nabe Matsamura  > Hohan Soken > Kosei Nishihira (they all have wiki entries ) 

 

 

 

 

[thelerner]

I started out in highschool with a very traditional Shotokan karate instructor.  He kept it simple, was passionate about the art, probably taught for free in the J.C.C.  We'd end sessions with our gi's covered in sweat.  Made some lifetime friends there.

 

In College did 2 years of Taekwondo.  It was nearby and college sponsored.  Didn't feel as connected, it felt commercial and with less heart than Shotokan.

 

After college starting out in business my biggest problem was stress.  I found Aikido, Ki-Aikido and helped me.  While practice was mostly pre-rehearsed moves, they were still full force.  You attacked hard, got thrown.. then roles were reversed.  Figuring out throws was like a physical koan.  Good people, some philosophy,  weekly ki-class on breathing, meditating, walking strongly.. even healing techniques.  Great year end Misogi training in January where we'd enter ice cold streams and do some ki-ai's.  

[silent thunder]

12 hours ago, thelerner said:

Great year end Misogi training in January where we'd enter ice cold streams and do some ki-ai's.  

One of the things I most miss, having moved and living in the Southern Desert is the ability to go roll in the snow, or ice stream flop after a sauna. 

 

Sounds like you had good fortune with your trainers/teachers.  It really seems a time like no other for Westerners and access to many modes of legit training.

 

If I were to/felt I could reasonably return to a hard art formally, it would be Aikido.  Elegant, direct, effective is how I describe what I've witnessed about it.

Edited May 11 by silent thunder

[Paradoxal]

On 5/7/2024 at 3:47 PM, silent thunder said:

The Shao Lin 5 Animal (with Wing Chun)side was the foundation.

Training has been Paramount to my quality of life now.  Particularly in the rehab from several years of being semi crippled/walking with a cane.

Peace friend.

I got my start in martial arts when I was 20 with WC and the animals as well! I'm still working on it (8 years later), but due to life circumstances, it seems I'll have to find a new art pretty soon; I'm moving away next month and won't be near my Sifu anymore. 

 

While I was in Okinawa, I was blessed enough to learn some Motobu Udundi and some Goju ryu as well, which I might pursue again soon, but I think WC and the animals will always be my core.

 

One interesting tidbit I found is that the Sil Lim Tao form seems to include all the hand motions of every system I've seen so far, which never ceases to amaze me!

 

[Elysium]

On 31.05.2024 at 6:46 AM, Paradoxal said:

While I was in Okinawa, I was blessed enough to learn some Motobu Udundi and some Goju ryu as well, which I might pursue again soon, but I think WC and the animals will always be my core.

Oh man, to train in Motobu family's style is a raging boner for most Karateka. How was it like, if I may ask?

[Paradoxal]

8 hours ago, Elysium said:

Oh man, to train in Motobu family's style is a raging boner for most Karateka. How was it like, if I may ask?

As soon as I learned what I was being shown, I thought the same thing; unfortunately, I seemed to be the only one at the local karate club to think so. Everyone else (mostly late teens to early 20s) wanted to focus on purely sports karate and saw no use for what they called "old kobudo" (very rough translation here). 

That said, I felt everything I was shown was very practical for use in live battlefield combat (of an era before ours, anyway); it included work in combat while running, switching between various weapons, throwing weapons, and half-swording: stuff I rarely see in traditional martial arts. Much of the barehanded techniques that were focused on were designed to be used without having to condition the hands/feet and could be transitioned directly into weapons techniques; the barehanded blocks were explained in terms of sword strikes, for instance. There was also a lot of training for appearance, to make one look "royal," which included work on posture, walking/running methods, etc. 

In terms of the energetics, the forms I was taught felt more like kung fu than karate and had a qigong aspect to them. They were long and fancy compared to what I'm used to, including spinning moves, but seemed to be stylized like a dance. I was told that there were over 30 forms included in the style, but I only learned 3 (4 if we break the weapons form I learned down into a naginata form and a katana form). 

 

Also, to preempt, I've seen some demonstrations of the style on YouTube that look very little like what I learned; I don't know enough to comment on them, but I haven't seen any videos online that look anything like what I was taught, despite searching intensely.