Where are all the martial artists at?

[Nungali]

Perhaps a lot of people think I mean something else when I refer to Martial Arts &  Magick . Going from years on here at DBs and in my personal experiences most think  ' super powers' or  ' siddhi ' .  For me, the best value of magick I encountered was a type of learning common sense philosophy / psychology and how  to access and develop knowledge , so it can be applied practically  to good ends. .  In martial arts its more visible and practical and immediate , but it can be very 'on the surface' and it may not have instruction for these things just mentioned .  Where as magick is more subtle, indirect , works through ones 'unconscious'  ( symbolism  { ritual and all its aspects  - if worked out properly } is 'the language of the unconscious ) , utilises more 'unseen forces' and works more on our internal aspects ( and should have a good 'developmental code'  - responsibility, ethics, etc . )

 

So it has been more like ;

 

Take the four elemental weapons of magick , look at their symbolism, and what aspects they relate to in you .

 

Then match them with  four martial weapons  and  look at the cross over of what is 'behind' the magical weapon , and how  it relates to the martial one , or you when you are using it .    And so on .

 

I remember many many years back reading a passage in Crowley's 'The Book of the Law '  ;  'The work of the wand and the work of the sword, these he shall learn and teach .' Back then I was heavily into aikido and training regularly with the staff (wand ) and the the sword . Of course the magical reference would be to evocation and invocation .  Could that relate to aspects of how you use the martial weapons ? And vice versa .  I guess that is where I started with it . Aikido also uses  the tanto , a dagger  ( thats about it for them with those three weapons , in Aki-kai, at least ,  IME  ) .  So thats  a main magical weapon as well and relates to 'air' and  things related to mind, intellect , etc .  What about the magical cup, the 'weapon'  related to water , and in us 'feelings' , the emotive consciousness .  I could not think of a weapon like it ,  its receiving , open , a receptacle awaiting to be filled . Then I realised, in a way that is the whole principle of aikido , you are standing there empty, you receive or even draw the attack into you , and so on .

 

So that was how it started, very long ago .  I probably only ever met two people interested who did a bit of that with me . Time went on, I did all sorts of MA and weaponry and continued with my magical studies and initiations  ( by then there are  33    'magical weapons' to focus on , learning their significance and relationship to the other aspects and tools of magick - like colours, geometric forms , related Gods, incenses, gems, medicinal drugs, plants, states of consciousness, etc . )

 

Who would be into that ? They would have to be deep long term into both fields  to even approach it .

 

Anyway .... there is the outline , so its now on record 

 

-  We could also do  martial arts lesson  here as well , without the magick .   But the same , my lessons would make no sense unless someone had a long background  already .   I could teach beginners , but I am a bit past it . I cant do a lot of it any more .... but I can show the competent  HOW THEY could do it .

 

We could even have a class now !

 

Okay everyone , line up . 

Now, first up , what is the main and most importance stance in karate ?

It is the 'one -legged stance ' . 

 

...... 

[Nungali]

 

[Nungali]

I guess no one wants to ask about then ?

 

or no one turned up for 'class'  ? 

[Paradoxal]

17 hours ago, Nungali said:

I guess no one wants to ask about then ?

 

or no one turned up for 'class'  ? 

I was just waiting for you to continue! Please, do go on!

[Nungali]

Okay, lets look at some techniques ;   certainly kicking relies on 'the one legged stance'  and depending on the kick, depends on what type of one legged stance      .... unless its a flying kick, then we have 'no legged stance ' .    But that is obvious , so how is one legged stance important in other techniques ?    Let's go back to the beginning ; who has trained for 40 years ... or, who trained 40 years ago ... or any time 'modern'  , 'correct' ,  Japanese ,   ' JKA   (Japan karate Association ) approved ' ,   'Shotokan'   karate ... that is, the main stream of teaching that came out of Japan  back then ? 

 

Bill ,  you did . Okay, show us how you would have been taught basic blocks back then .... how a beginner would have been shown .

 

 

Thank you Bill , that is exactly what I meant , and it is how I was taught as well . Of course, over time a lot of that has changed , and because its changed and the more its changed the further removed from any original understanding we can get .

 

Note the hand and arm movements ;  the arm NOT blocking, usually open palm is extended first and then pulled back before the other arm blocks . In right  upper block the left palm is first put into an upper position , in my training the arm would have been extended more straight and up . The same with middle blocks , the other hand is extended first  and then drawn back .  Now with 'Bill's'  lower block, its a bit more 'unpresent '  but when I was taught , for example,  right lower block, the first thing was to extend left arm down, palm open and to my center line , then draw that back as the block came down , like a hammer fist , knuckles to the front .

 

This a remnant  of the technique before modernization, before karate turned into something to teach children at school ... fore arm blocking is much safer and causes less injury . It used to be that first hand that was 'blocking' ... or actually , as teacher  ( both Hohan Soken and MR N. ) said .... " NO block ... why you 'block'  ? "  

 

I'll borrow Bill again and ask him to attack with   upper punch  .   He punches and I do the upper block drill; I extend the none blocking hand forward and up, I step back, either straight back , or preferably back and to left or right , better to the outside  and block the punch , even though by now I am probably out of range , so I have to step forward and counterpunch , or kick as a counter .   Standard .

 

Now Bill will show us how to practice  upper block ... there he goes up and down the hall, stepping forward and blocking, turn, come back. Its the same for all the blocks .  Did you notice he was moving forward in practice ... and the same in kata , yet in all the drill, we move backwards ?    Now Bill will attack me again, same punch .  As he does ,  do exactly what I used to be taught , but I move forwards . Off line , ie.  with my crescent half moon step we where all taught  ( the back leg comes forward to the other , next to it  then curves out and forward, each step is a half circle . We have to shift weight to the foot that is  stationary, which also makes our center line move as well . Going up and down the hall, stepping and blocking our center line makes a wave form  left to right to left .

My left ( first)  hand flinging out is like shuto, it strikes his  right forearm and deflects the punch and as well,  I have stepped off line and his fist has gone past me , now two options , I do the right 'upper block' and in this position, I can strike the side of his head with forearm or elbow into face  OR I can pull down my left arm trapping his right arm and as I pull it down I can strike up under the arm pit with my 'block' ( this is then good for leading into a grapple ) .  I am also close enough so as I step in I can control his stance with mine and my foot placement  .

 

Let's try it ....   WACK !  Owwwww ... shit man are you okay, what happened ?   ( This actually happened in demo with training mate )

 

( holding his mouth )  ... errr. I was trying to sneak a left in as well, I thought  you would be unguarded on your right side . "

 

Well, dont do that , my elbow strike was timed to stop just in front of your mouth ,  by  throwing that right , when I didnt expect it , your had moved over and turned about an inch ... here give us a look  ( looks in mouth and at teeth ), nah, you okay, still a pretty boy, no teeth gone .

 

Now, do  chudan ... mid level punch .  I will do outside block ;  he punches with right , I step back  and a bit to my left , putting my  left hand forward and then retracting it as my right comes around to block with the forearm ,  again I am probably out of range for punch so have to step back in  and punch .... and he could step back and do the same and come forward for counter and I could step back .... and thats how we have that 'ping pong '  type of drill forming .   Now again , he punches , I move off line to my right , my left palm coming across to deflect or check (making sure punch doesnt follow my movement ) and move my right in nearly exactly the same motion   but this time I drive my back fist into his right exposed  outside elbow bone / joint  ....  Lateral  epycondyle of the humerus ;

 

 

Bill hops a round a bit and rubs the spot .

 

OR an inside block ..... go for a head or middle punch bill , he does, I evade as before but to the other side my right , my left hand comes across just like an inner block  and this time I lead with a 'spear fist '   my ring finger second knuckle extended and stike it into his wrist L11  ... or any of the 4 will do it

 

 

Now Bill is hopping around looking a little sick and seems to have lost the control of that arm, its gone into spasm  .. a bit of massage and rubbing and ki flow projestion " Dont worry it will return to normal soon ... but dont do that a lot, it could result in some permannet damage ... another thing NOT to teach school kids !  

 

Takle a rest Bill , another partner please ?   Awwww come one ... someone . If you are going to do these things to others , you need to know what it feels like having it done to you .

 

Good on you Charlie ... attack with  R front kick ... I step back, my left hand comes forward and gets pulled back, my  right comes down and I block with forearm , same as before .  Kick again . I come forward off line , check / slap kick away and do my down block as a sweeping strike, knuckles OUT  and do a back fist across the edge of his kneecap .   Which I wont do now as its .... nasty !

 

Another point which we will get to later is this hand positioning and how mistaken and wrong that is .  Again, another punch to my head ;

Charlie  delivers, doing a classic oi tsuki  and retracting the other hand to his hip .  I  sloppily step aside slap it away with one hand and slap him upside the head with the other .  He doesnt like that .. well ... tough . it was stupid punch ... we will deal with 'hitake ' later .

Now Charlie show me Seisan kata .. first few punches ;

 

 

Now come forward and punch me like that , keeping the other hand up, he does , I step to the side go to slap him upside the head but he easily blocks it as he has a guard up .   Punching without keeping guard up is one of the most dangerous and reckless things you can do ... against a fighter .  We will return to that .

 

But what has all this got to do with one legged stance ? if you noticed , nearly all my techniques I did where either done in or initiated from that moment I stepped one leg into the other , any steeping out to do a strike  was a stepping out to DRIVE and add momentum to it , to overpower or crash against the other and to control footwork .  It was all initiated and control taken  from that moment  I had virtually all of my weight on one leg .

 

Now, of course you dont HAVE to do that and many do not .  Most of us where taught to shift weight to one leg when stepping ... either wise, lift one foot up and you tilt to that side, or fall over  , but if you step straight through then you are committed and you might run into something .   lets divert to one of our films of Mr . Nishihira  (unfortunately NOT on line , private collection ) .

 

he doesnt just step in and then out , see the hips ; he virtually snaps his hip forward a little and the rest of his body follows it , with the leg and foot coming into center line  THEN  whatever 'comes out of that ' does, either a kick, step forward or back with a technique , or a technique from there or even a 'leap' .... the 'step out ' , and that too is done via the hip being moved first with the limb sort of being whipped out by the movement .  Look at his demonstration of the 'inside reverse roundhouse kick ' he is the only person I have ever seen do this ... its typical of the Okinawan crane form  though. he evades or steps so his feet are close together, he flicks his   hip (rotating )  out and back , the leg follows  and the hip is being already retracted  before the kick hits, giving it a whipping whip cracking effect ,  driving the extended big toe into the liver  area .   But thats for another lesson , the point is the power is derived from when in virtually a one legged stance .  Of course we need other stances to begin or finish things , but most things , in this style seem initiated from the one leg stance . It was very important in their style , as was footwork and balance related to footwork .  Hohan Soken used to talk about Nabe   ( his teacher and the  inheritor of Bushi Matasmura Soken  style- Seito   ... family tradition and members ) making him train on a log floating in a pond ... sometimes when he was doing this Uncle Nabe would jump on the log as well, challenging Hohan to a spa on the log .... 

 

Now further to this hand position  and I will explain why in later lesson , the classic, one hand out the other on the hip is a another major misunderstanding . Old school karate in Okinawa , they used to have the other (back ) hand extended half way  out, also in a fist  with palm up ... pretty much in the classical stance of the Victorian boxer .

 

 

And you will notice in a competition .. when people want to win ... that other hand will come up . Its common sense . As I said, we will look at it later , why such 'unsensable' techniques became to be practiced .

 

And prior to that , It was open hand , not nearly all fists  .   This all has to do with karate being originally 'Chinese Hand ' ;  '  cara - ti ' .

 

Our hand position is often one leading , both palms open the rear one p[positioned so its fingertips about 1/3 up the forearm of the other arm  and nearly touching it . 

 

As previously explained MR N fav kata was Niharchin shodan, he said nearly all our techniques and secrets are contained within it , and we notice his way of doing it and his bunkai seem vary different to eh mainstream ... until; recently .

 

Anyway, that concludes todays lesson , go home and train and explore with your  training partners, work on 'Rohai' ( heron form )  which has a lot of obvious one legged stance in it , and of course 'Hakatsuru' (crane form )  and in consideration of what I just said , regarding Chinese origins , body movement, hips and twisting , using fore arms striking  and Niharchin ... study this video ; 

 

 

You might see the similarities of what MR N was trying to show people .

[Nungali]

 

[Dedicated]

On 05/05/2024 at 11:29 PM, Elysium said:

Ladies and gentleman and myriad of all kinds of beings, I am assuming there are a lot of you who are practicing a martial art.

 

So I am wondering if I may hear your story? Which are do you hail from? How long has your journey been? How many arts have you gone through?

 

That being said I am not interested in "my art is better than you" or "this won't work in streets" business, and I sure hope everyone who contributes are on same page.

 

Me, regretably I haven't had experience in any, I should have joined one in my teens, its a shame. I will be enrolling in a Kyokushin dojo after this summer for sure. Long overdue.

My Brother is a Black Belt teacher in Yet Chang Do. We have both studied others. But that's a core foundation for us

[doc benway]

On 5/5/2024 at 9:29 AM, Elysium said:

Ladies and gentleman and myriad of all kinds of beings, I am assuming there are a lot of you who are practicing a martial art.

 

So I am wondering if I may hear your story? Which are do you hail from? How long has your journey been? How many arts have you gone through?

 

That being said I am not interested in "my art is better than you" or "this won't work in streets" business, and I sure hope everyone who contributes are on same page.

 

Me, regretably I haven't had experience in any, I should have joined one in my teens, its a shame. I will be enrolling in a Kyokushin dojo after this summer for sure. Long overdue.

 

My martial arts relationship started in grade school, about 50 years ago. I studied a Japanese style for several years, Shorinjiryu. During my college and graduate years I studied Wing Chun. When I hit ~ 40, I began my study of taiji, xingyi, and bagua - mostly taiji, and have stuck with that for the past 20 years. At this point I’ve given up any real martial training and just focus on taiji form practice and some qigong. I also try to keep up the circle walking and occasionally revisit some of my earlier styles. My main motivation now is health and fitness. Anymore I run and walk more than practicing martial arts to be honest.

[Paradoxal]

So sorry for the late reply! Life has been a bit too busy for me to give a well thought-out reply, so I waited a bit!

 

On 9/9/2024 at 8:21 AM, Nungali said:

If you are going to do these things to others , you need to know what it feels like having it done to you .

Very true! Also, it's a huge honor to be the example dummy, as that usually means the teacher trusts you.

At Sifu's dojo, I remember complaining when I was used for it, but a few years in someone gracefully explained to me how valuable the experience is. Because I've been hit with all these different meridian shots, I not only know exactly where they are and what they do, but also how to mitigate damage after the fact. The same can be said for dim mak and fajin, as if I hadn't been hit with them so many times in a controlled situation, I doubt I'd be able to get where I am now!

 

On 9/9/2024 at 8:21 AM, Nungali said:

nearly all my techniques I did where either done in or initiated from that moment I stepped one leg into the other , any steeping out to do a strike  was a stepping out to DRIVE and add momentum to it , to overpower or crash against the other and to control footwork .  It was all initiated and control taken  from that moment  I had virtually all of my weight on one leg .

 

Now, of course you dont HAVE to do that and many do not .  Most of us where taught to shift weight to one leg when stepping ... either wise, lift one foot up and you tilt to that side, or fall over  , but if you step straight through then you are committed and you might run into something . 

A very helpful point and explanation overall! Coming from TWC, where the basic idea is NOT to shift balance to one leg or the over where we can help it (it still happens during steps, kicks, strikes, etc though!), this is a huge difference between the basic philosophy of arts. Nonetheless, the concept can and certainly will apply across arts, and drives home the importance of the one-legged stance as you mentioned. 

 

 

On 9/9/2024 at 8:21 AM, Nungali said:

he doesnt just step in and then out , see the hips ; he virtually snaps his hip forward a little and the rest of his body follows it , with the leg and foot coming into center line  THEN  whatever 'comes out of that ' does, either a kick, step forward or back with a technique , or a technique from there or even a 'leap' .... the 'step out ' , and that too is done via the hip being moved first with the limb sort of being whipped out by the movement .  Look at his demonstration of the 'inside reverse roundhouse kick ' he is the only person I have ever seen do this ... its typical of the Okinawan crane form  though. he evades or steps so his feet are close together, he flicks his   hip (rotating )  out and back , the leg follows  and the hip is being already retracted  before the kick hits, giving it a whipping whip cracking effect ,  driving the extended big toe into the liver  area .   But thats for another lesson , the point is the power is derived from when in virtually a one legged stance .  Of course we need other stances to begin or finish things , but most things , in this style seem initiated from the one leg stance . It was very important in their style , as was footwork and balance related to footwork .  Hohan Soken used to talk about Nabe   ( his teacher and the  inheritor of Bushi Matasmura Soken  style- Seito   ... family tradition and members ) making him train on a log floating in a pond ... sometimes when he was doing this Uncle Nabe would jump on the log as well, challenging Hohan to a spa on the log .... 

 

This whipping of the limbs using the hips is something that I was taught as the basics of Goju ryu, but hadn't seen elsewhere before. That said, I've only done it with straight shots, not round. Thanks to your post, I've started experimenting with adding it to my round kicks as well!

 

To clarify, by 'inside reverse roundhouse kick', are we talking a hook kick with the front leg? A roundhouse done with the back leg to an inside target? What exactly is this referring to?

 

Additionally, in TWC, we also hugely prioritize balance, but we do it through standing on medicine balls rather than logs. We even do some of our forms while standing on medicine balls. I imagine this use of medicine ball as opposed to log is a product of our environment, however! 

 

On 9/9/2024 at 8:21 AM, Nungali said:

Now further to this hand position  and I will explain why in later lesson , the classic, one hand out the other on the hip is a another major misunderstanding . Old school karate in Okinawa , they used to have the other (back ) hand extended half way  out, also in a fist  with palm up ... pretty much in the classical stance of the Victorian boxer .

 

 

And you will notice in a competition .. when people want to win ... that other hand will come up . Its common sense . As I said, we will look at it later , why such 'unsensable' techniques became to be practiced .

 

Basic. Wing chun. Stance.

I love seeing this stuff explained, and I agree with every word you said on this! It was done that way because it worked well in the situations folks found themselves in! While there are plenty of other perfectly valid and usable positions to hold the hands in, having both in front and usable just gives so much of an advantage that it's a waste not to do it at longer ranges.

 

On 9/9/2024 at 8:21 AM, Nungali said:

study this video ; 

 

 

You might see the similarities of what MR N was trying to show people .

Definitely! (As a side note, Jesse Enkamp is a great ambassador of martial arts! Love his content!)

 

I would actually go much further than Kevin Lee did in this though. I was taught that every move in a form has at least 24 different applications, and they do not have to be 1-to-1 compared to the form. Having studied in Okinawa, particularly under some high level folks, I would 100% argue that applications of the kata are not lost, but rather, so numberous and flexible that it's pointless to try to memorize em. Ya gotta understand how they're used and the nuances, then the whole thing opens up for you. 

 

Likewise, as he and I hail from different lineages, I'd like to point out that, at least in the lineage I'm from, we DO train for all ranges of fights, not specifically short range, and we DO learn to back up as well, in the right situation (lol). Also, in the same vein, contrary to popular opinion, we DO train in all kicks (front, side, round, hook, back, axe, and jumping/spinning variations too), but most of these are hidden in forms and need to be pointed out if the student is not observant enough. 

 

The reason I was taught for this, and am tempted to believe because of what I see other lineages do, is that supposedly ours is the original and the others are a modified version, that was originally taught to an outsider who was caught spying during practice to ensure he couldn't actually use whatever he saw. The modifications included removal of major footwork (swivel step replaces circle step in modified), removal of much flexible handwork (lots of circular moves are removed), and a neutering of the energetic aspects (which is why modified versions often incorporate some outside form of the yijin jing to compensate). Now, this is *fiercely* political and not a thing that any one side can decisively prove (imagine being told something you trained your whole life in was modified to suck, cause your originator tried to steal it) and I have seen folks from modified that are plenty scary. 

 

...but I digress. 

 

As for the single-legged stance, I will start including it more in my own training! I've noticed my footwork is my weakest part and have been doing training to fix it for the last few years, so I think this'll be very useful! 

 

 

 

[Paradoxal]

On 9/12/2024 at 8:15 AM, doc benway said:

My martial arts relationship started in grade school, about 50 years ago. I studied a Japanese style for several years, Shorinjiryu. During my college and graduate years I studied Wing Chun. When I hit ~ 40, I began my study of taiji, xingyi, and bagua - mostly taiji, and have stuck with that for the past 20 years. At this point I’ve given up any real martial training and just focus on taiji form practice and some qigong. I also try to keep up the circle walking and occasionally revisit some of my earlier styles. My main motivation now is health and fitness. Anymore I run and walk more than practicing martial arts to be honest.

Very respectable! My own Sifu followed a similar path, though his started with Shorinjiryu Kenyukai, then Tao Chuan Po, then Wing Chun. He still teaches all three of them, though WC has become his main due to the insistence of the GM of our lineage. I find myself very fortunate to be his student.

[Nungali]

5 hours ago, Paradoxal said:

So sorry for the late reply! Life has been a bit too busy for me to give a well thought-out reply, so I waited a bit!

 

Very true! Also, it's a huge honor to be the example dummy, as that usually means the teacher trusts you.

At Sifu's dojo, I remember complaining when I was used for it, but a few years in someone gracefully explained to me how valuable the experience is. Because I've been hit with all these different meridian shots, I not only know exactly where they are and what they do, but also how to mitigate damage after the fact. The same can be said for dim mak and fajin, as if I hadn't been hit with them so many times in a controlled situation, I doubt I'd be able to get where I am now!

 

My fav 'dummy guy '  ;

 

 

A very helpful point and explanation overall! Coming from TWC, where the basic idea is NOT to shift balance to one leg or the over where we can help it (it still happens during steps, kicks, strikes, etc though!), this is a huge difference between the basic philosophy of arts. Nonetheless, the concept can and certainly will apply across arts, and drives home the importance of the one-legged stance as you mentioned. 

 

 

 

This whipping of the limbs using the hips is something that I was taught as the basics of Goju ryu, but hadn't seen elsewhere before. That said, I've only done it with straight shots, not round. Thanks to your post, I've started experimenting with adding it to my round kicks as well!

 

To clarify, by 'inside reverse roundhouse kick', are we talking a hook kick with the front leg? A roundhouse done with the back leg to an inside target? What exactly is this referring to?

 

I cant seem to find a film of it or even know its name . Also I was never told a name for it just shown it . It features in our hakatsuru kata , which is also like no other hakatsuru kata I have seen  ( I am sus on it as it seems to incorporate techniques from other katas ( like Rohai , Gojushiho, Kusanku )  which seem older , so I assume adopted from , yet there are some moves in it, including this kick , which I have not seen elsewhere . The two people that might have known about it  have passed on ) . I have only seen it in one film of that kata , but still they did it differently and wrong IMO ( 'wrong ' in that they seem to have left some parts of moves out and short cutted , thus depriving their form of valuable lessons and techniques )  and overall bad form .

 

I learnt two forms of the kick- inside and outside , which are both in the kata . Performed by themselves they look the same except on outside , one begins with  hands together, the inside hands crossed :  to break it down, static or 'formal' / ' beginners' exercise  :

 

Stand feet together, knees slightly bent with weight 'lowered', lift up right leg and both arms  so arms cross in front of you , palms in . keep your knee high and rotate it to the outside and down and lift your foot up and to the left  so that your lower leg is near horizontal . Fling your arms out into that typical crane posture and flick your leg so the foot ( with the big toe leading ), traces an horizontal arc out and around back to your center line . Then it is instantly whipped back so you are in something like this position;

The typical crane posture is actually the end position of this technique .

One of its advantages is you can move to someones outside , even near 45 deg into their 'blind spot' and 'kick around' their hip into their groin . I have demonstrated it to a few and they where surprised that I could get a groin kick in from that angle .

 

To the outside , say against a right punch , you would step out to your left as you hands come up ( no need to cross them ) and follow with your right foot (feet together )  as you use your right 'blade hand '  to deflect roll and control the punch into a wrist lock , pulling in slightly and  delivering this kick to their right side .

 

On the inside, against a right punch  ( standing with your left foot forward ) , slide left front foot back a bit and shift weight to your right side , hands come up crossed , with your right deflecting / controlling their strike at the base of the wrist  and directing it to your outside right , as you open your arms , you pass their strike onto your  left hand and use the same rolling wrist lock and pull their arm in, while your other 'wing'  flaps open at the same time with a finger strike or flick to the eyes . at the same time you have delivered this kick with your right foot into their right side, knee or other target .

In the kata this is also done while deeply twisting the torso . I am sorta in a horse stance , left foot forward , left arm forward , I twist my whole body, leaving feet planted , so now my right arm is forward , as I do this I am moving my center line and deflecting with that hand that is coming around , now I do the same as above but from a deep crossed stance and kick through with the back leg .

Gawd this is hard ! I could SHOW in 2 seconds   

 

Anyway, thats the kick, I hope it made sense , you might even be familiar with it under some name ? 

 

Additionally, in TWC, we also hugely prioritize balance, but we do it through standing on medicine balls rather than logs. We even do some of our forms while standing on medicine balls. I imagine this use of medicine ball as opposed to log is a product of our environment, however! 

 

It makes a huge difference , over the last couple of decades I have nearly always trained outside and  uneven ground and natural obstacles often change a LOT .  I often teach ; look around first .   A number of times, on my training ground at home , I have maneuvered people into a large nasty thistle ,  often they have taken their shoes off to practice ..... Owwww , they look down .... me ;  whack !    .  I got one guy three times with it and he complained  ' Why dont you get rid of that damn thing ! " then after observing my smirk " Ohhhhhh .... now I get it . " 

 

 

Basic. Wing chun. Stance.

I love seeing this stuff explained, and I agree with every word you said on this! It was done that way because it worked well in the situations folks found themselves in! While there are plenty of other perfectly valid and usable positions to hold the hands in, having both in front and usable just gives so much of an advantage that it's a waste not to do it at longer ranges.

 

That retracted hand at the hip posture ( end of hikite  technique )  , like the crane posture , is a position you should be in AFTER a certain technique , not a 'ready' posture at all .  Its actually a form of ' bully boy street fighting where they grab you with one hand and pull you in while the other bashes you ... so people that cant or dont want to fight , can not run away .  ( Also thats why there are a lot of techniques against being grabbed and held )

 

Definitely! (As a side note, Jesse Enkamp is a great ambassador of martial arts! Love his content!)

 

I would actually go much further than Kevin Lee did in this though. I was taught that every move in a form has at least 24 different applications, and they do not have to be 1-to-1 compared to the form. Having studied in Okinawa, particularly under some high level folks, I would 100% argue that applications of the kata are not lost, but rather, so numberous and flexible that it's pointless to try to memorize em.

 

Like 100 ways to attack the groin ?    

 

Ya gotta understand how they're used and the nuances, then the whole thing opens up for you. 

 

Totally agree .  After a while they 'open up' to you . Sometimes in 'demo free spar' (that concentrating on learning not winning ) I will stop ( "freeze "  the positions ) and say ' Look at the position we are now in; I am in an obvious and easy position to apply ..... from ..... (kata ) " .  Often one can 'wait' and you opponent will 'fall into' just the right situation for a technique - as opposed to attempting to 'force' it .

 

I would even go as far to say ,  some of the seemingly blindingly simple applications have been missed , due to some peoples lack of 'eclectic'  experience . My last 'instructor' ,  (who I want  to have nothing to do with anymore ) seemed to not know many applications as he didnt understand the wrestling and 'jujitsu' / throwing  parts of his own art .... everything seemed to be about blocking and punching with him .

 

Likewise, as he and I hail from different lineages, I'd like to point out that, at least in the lineage I'm from, we DO train for all ranges of fights, not specifically short range, and we DO learn to back up as well, in the right situation (lol). Also, in the same vein, contrary to popular opinion, we DO train in all kicks (front, side, round, hook, back, axe, and jumping/spinning variations too), but most of these are hidden in forms and need to be pointed out if the student is not observant enough. 

 

All ranges ; yes . particularly notable when transitioning from empty hand to sai to sword to bo to rope dart ....

 

The reason I was taught for this, and am tempted to believe because of what I see other lineages do, is that supposedly ours is the original and the others are a modified version, that was originally taught to an outsider who was caught spying during practice to ensure he couldn't actually use whatever he saw. The modifications included removal of major footwork (swivel step replaces circle step in modified), removal of much flexible handwork (lots of circular moves are removed), and a neutering of the energetic aspects (which is why modified versions often incorporate some outside form of the yijin jing to compensate). Now, this is *fiercely* political and not a thing that any one side can decisively prove (imagine being told something you trained your whole life in was modified to suck, cause your originator tried to steal it) and I have seen folks from modified that are plenty scary. 

 

Sounds like the history of karate .  Soken's crew where amused after they insisted they busted Funakoshi spying through a holke in the fence at one of their kata sessions 

 

...but I digress. 

 

As for the single-legged stance, I will start including it more in my own training! I've noticed my footwork is my weakest part and have been doing training to fix it for the last few years, so I think this'll be very useful! 

 

Thanks for response and feedback .

 

 

 

 

[forestofclarity]

On 9/11/2024 at 5:15 PM, doc benway said:

At this point I’ve given up any real martial training

 

I did various martial arts over the years--- Japanese jiujitsu, kickboxing, xing yi, etc. I was often looking for something that was an art but also pragmatic. However, I ended up stopping altogether because I didn't like how the training impacted my mind set and the bodily injuries. It's hard to find a cool old school martial arts instructor--- it seems that everyone nowadays wants to go out and get into fights. People come into class bragging about this fight or that fight. And I'm wondering--- how the heck does a functioning adult even get into a fight? Confrontation is almost always avoidable. A lot of martial artists have a sort of edge or sharpness. Seems more martial and less art. 

 

However, I just signed up for yet another Tai Chi class (I think it is my third run through if I stick with it). I don't really see a better way to work with alignment through the body, and IMA body mechanics are unlike anything else. Sort of like meditation, but the body is doing it. 

[Nungali]

I have found at least 2 ways to defray this   ^ 

 

before I train or teach with someone I make it very clear :

 

" I am a hopeless fighter ... you could beat me easily . " 

 

: ) 

 

The other main way is I show them how to do the technique on me instead of me starting the whole thing by doing it to them .   This worked particularly well  ( both approaches )    when I   showed some 'stuff' to some Aboriginals .   They are pretty sick and tired of people telling them about 'better ' stuff  (in all areas ), especially this one  ... lets say many of them are experienced in very real  fighting 'arts' .  Some are more than willing to show claimants  'what really works '    

 

- they got some cool weaponry too .

 

 

 

 

 

'Fighting-  one long side -   boomerang ' .    ( There are many boomerangs , only  some  are the  throwing / returning type - they are designed to imitate a hovering  bird of prey , to chase other birds into nets.  )

 

This one is made from a strong small tree section where the root branches out from the base at 90 deg  so the grain runs along with the curve .  Some of them also hook over at the end a bit more .  They are mostly used in a clubbing motion on the blunt end  with the extra piece providing more mass at the 'rear'  .  It can be used like a short staff or jo , swinging with one hand or blocking with the shaft and holding it at  both ends .   It can be turned around to strike with the point , or go for a hit with the shaft and when its blocked the end can 'reach over'  and hit the others arm , used like a kama or sickle  to hook and pull limbs  or a shield . 

 

I saw a doco two old guys made one and then it went for a  'white fellah ' test in a lab .   The 'lab' was two re-enactment  guys in full Euro armour  in a ring, they gave up their axes and swords and went at each other full contact with these and shields . They where impressed with its utility , but mostly their strength ; against metal amour and shields ,  full power , they remain undamaged with only scuff marks and scratches .  

 

 

[Thrice Daily]

Wing Chun - FMA - Chen Tai Chi  

 

[other classes and styles tasted but not as noteworthy and currently not featuring in life story]

 

Tendon Changing practice makes a huge difference day to day to martial training as does meditation. 
 

Training technical points in trapping range. I’m forever looking at the possibilities as a partially completed puzzle. 
 

Almost everyday breaking apart sequences and running them back and forth even for a brief moment while the kettle is on.

Chipping away, sometimes practice feels dry, then a breakthrough, and fresh ways to train emerge. 
 

Footwork forever refining. As said earlier all the seeds for hands are in Wing Chun Sil lim Tao, I let it flower in a flowing form, from small closed and compact, to large open and flowing. Still same seeds are there, only they look and feel so so different.

 

This is some of my story. Daily practice and respect of teachers in past stays with me, ever present in movements. I was lucky to train briefly with two Grandmasters of Ip Man Wing Chun.

 

The sticks of fma offer an extension into the beauty of form and such a wondrous dimension of practice emerges, to flow with music, it’s tribal at times and highly absorbing, multi directional and secret. My teacher only taught me basics, but I witnessed something in our meetings that telegraphed a pure understanding, one I’m still filtering through. And every know and again a new element is unpacked and springs into the practice. Love adoration and respect, speaks through time and lineage, I sincerely believe in this power… Sometimes I miss training with others, but there is something else about solo training, it’s like a yoga, that you can never really get a true deep practice in a class environment, too many distraction from a truly deep and complete union. [but this is state of being and of course a flawed outlook in terms of effectiveness in combat, which is not why I train tbf, if I did I would certainly be training wrestling instead] I train mostly in secret and shadow box like this daily in any pockets of time I can find. This is my story, it is a passion and a love.

 

But I refuse to use this striking art to damage , only change footwork and smile with a softness. The place I live is full of wrestlers and they would tie me in knots , 😂 

But I do love the romance of long and mid range striking, trapping. Fighting is not martial arts in my story.

 

I was only beaten badly once, and that was all it took for me to never again let my ego in the hot seat. It was bad, real bad, one or two more punches I think that would have been me finished.  Since then God knows what has kept me safe. My Wing Chun never led me to violence, only away from it. I’m lucky I guess, circumstances have been very fair to me even in times of peril. Whatever comes stays, I’ve been blessed with a good temperament and project this into the world, I live in a good scenario moment to moment and am fast to be thankful, directly and often.
 

there is certainly a sports and exercise element to the training, it’s great to stretch and get some cardio, it’s more than that though, it’s deeply connecting to ancestral truths, awarenesses and humble connecting to the universe and all it has on offer. It is art produced by the body and a love affair of mine for life, in any available moment even a simple movement or two, or three , or four…. Train train train, you are only as good as your last session!!! Keep the magic alive! train train train!  
 

Honourable mention White Crane, it was a good crowd, nice format, decent teacher . Every time class finished I went to Wetherspoons pub across the road for a huge all day brunch and made notes on my phone from the class. I learned a heap tbf. It’s a shame I lost that phone. The insights and subsequent notes were unique. 

Edited 3 hours ago by Thrice Daily