Christianity

[Thrice Daily]

On 18/05/2024 at 3:05 PM, Apech said:

Giving birth standing is not so unusual - the Egyptians did this also.

He had a long and illustrious life. I love his teachings, especially the stories in Dhammapada and also the lamrim for quick practical reference. 

 

He was fortunate to have such a long time to teach and with a Secretary no less.

 

The only thing I'm caught up on about him is how he jumped out of the window instead of taking responsibility as a father,(must have been a bitter pull to swallow) so I heard. 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong though.

Edited September 12 by Thrice Daily
Spelling

[Cobie]

42 minutes ago, Thrice Daily said:

… he jumped out of the window instead of taking responsibility as a father …

Yes, that has always bothered me as well.

[Nungali]

yeah .

 

I was watching a travel doco with a well known presenter . During his adventures he went to see a shaman and at the end he was asked if he wanted to seek any advice. he said yes and that as a TV presenter  that was his work and love and he traveled away a lot and that meant time away from his family .  What should he do .? The Shaman explained family was more important ,  it is traditional with us and many other cultures to first fulfill our commitments and our  good experiences with our family and children when they are young , after that has been done we should seek our own things , enjoyments, and spiritual explorations  in the older stage of life .

 

Thats clear in lots of traditions .   The presenter looked a bit guilty and sheepish on hearing this ... but afaik , he still carries on the same .

 

The time I spent with the 'little guys' was  fun, great , developing soul and self, and I was 'in there' and not running off, going away, working, but even so it passed so quickly and was gone .   And that besides the effects it has on the kids / family .

 

- you dont want to be there for them , dont have them in the first place !

[manitou]

On 5/15/2024 at 4:14 PM, Apech said:

Whether or not there was a historical Buddha is actually unimportant to the dharma - as with Lao Tzu ... they do not hinge on stated historical facts in the way Christianity does.

 

 

 

Maybe this has already been discussed - I haven't read the whole thread.

 

This is a great point, I think.  That's the thing with Christianity.  It's a repetitive celebration of the same lore year after year.  And it's arguable if the facts are historical or not, but at the very least it's lore that people believe because they want to believe it.  It's a comfort, to think that there's something greater watching out for you.

 

But alas, the grown up brain, in some incarnation, must come to the realization that we are on our own - we ARE the intelligence that we hope is looking out for us.  But in another way, the seeker realizes that the thing he's looking for isn't out there at all, it's in here.  The warm area inside me that I perceive to be 'me' - it sits in my chest - I realize that you too have the same warm area of sensation within you.  We all have the same thing, because we are all the same thing.  Just cells of the same body.  

 

I think that's pretty great.  When I look into your eyes, I'm looking into my eyes.

[old3bob]

21 hours ago, manitou said:

 

 

Maybe this has already been discussed - I haven't read the whole thread.

 

This is a great point, I think.  That's the thing with Christianity.  It's a repetitive celebration of the same lore year after year.  And it's arguable if the facts are historical or not, but at the very least it's lore that people believe because they want to believe it.  It's a comfort, to think that there's something greater watching out for you.

 

But alas, the grown up brain, in some incarnation, must come to the realization that we are on our own - we ARE the intelligence that we hope is looking out for us.  But in another way, the seeker realizes that the thing he's looking for isn't out there at all, it's in here.  The warm area inside me that I perceive to be 'me' - it sits in my chest - I realize that you too have the same warm area of sensation within you.  We all have the same thing, because we are all the same thing.  Just cells of the same body.  

 

I think that's pretty great.  When I look into your eyes, I'm looking into my eyes.

 

The way I'd put is: as humans we are more or less on own by being identified as only human which is one of the types of a shell that we may inhabit,  but being identified as spirit none of us are on their own since there are countless other soul/ beings around,  further in the unveiling we find that there is only one of us that is in the many of us.

[manitou]

22 hours ago, old3bob said:

 

The way I'd put is: as humans we are more or less on own by being identified as only human which is one of the types of a shell that we may inhabit,  but being identified as spirit none of us are on their own since there are countless other soul/ beings around,  further in the unveiling we find that there is only one of us that is in the many of us.

 

 

That's the dual way of looking at it, I suspect.

 

Here's the thing.  We're not really here.  The atoms in our body are 99.9999999999999 (13)% space.  The molecules in our body, the same.  The organs, the same.  The whole body, the same.  We are only  .00000000000001% here.  And I'll bet that that .00000000000001% will break down to absolutely nothing also, when our instruments get there, if they're not already.  Those tricky little spinners make it seem like we're here, but if those puppies were to stop spinning (and the earth were to stop turning!), the whole thing would just go pppfffttttpphh!!!!  Life and movement seem to be the very same thing.

 

But in the end, it's thought.  Whose thought?  "God's" thought.  Where's God?  Lounging on a cloud? 

No.  It's is the intelligence of DNA, it keeps evolving. The same intelligence that keeps the rotors rotating in the right order and at the right time.  It is the supreme intelligence, which we carry in our genetic codes.  It's Us. 

 

Our individual part is to learn how to get ourselves out of the way so the Real can shine through.

 

for some reason, it reminds me of turning a sock inside out.

 

 

 

 

Edited September 27 by manitou

[old3bob]

Hello Manitou,  I don't see how that was just or only a dual way of looking at it?   The Self is non evolving and will never go poof for it is not a thing of evolving physical DNA that can go poof ...The Self is so very fast that it is standing still everywhere at once, thus always here and now. (but also does not deny the intelligence or dharma of emanated evolution at its various levels)

Edited September 28 by old3bob

[Thrice Daily]

I learned recently that the early Christians had a code that they used for the first few hundred years after Christs death.

 

it enabled them to pass information of him and his teachings with much less of a risk of getting persecuted or killed for it.

 

Apparently that’s why we see the fish bumper stickers symbolising Christ. In this secret code Jesus was known as Fish… 

 

I know some people still debate the existence of Jesus. I’m not sure why though, there is just too much first hand evidence of his existence.

 

One of the reasons I believe in him is because he has stood the test of time for the last 2000 years, being possibly the words most popular and enduring message/symbol 

 

Even if it’s been a hypnosis of the masses it has still happened and the message has endured.

 

Ive been working on a book that is written on a pretty simple level that discusses The Tao and Christianity . 
 

Hopefully I’ll be able to share it here in the footer of my messages and admin will be cool with me promoting it here. I think many members of this group might like it.

 

3rd draft and it’s nearly done

[old3bob]

there are various fundamentalist like interpretations of Christianity and the more esoteric strains of interpretation of Christianity, and they do not agree on a lot of points!  (and in some ways can be as different as night and day, along with complications and contradictions in doctrine which can drive one nuts)

Edited September 28 by old3bob

[Thrice Daily]

Yeah I’ve set out to meet on bridges between the two traditions. The book is made of a lot of quotes from Modern Taoists , Ancient Sages and Christian Mystics , new and old.

 

Its a simple book as I say, serving to bridge the gap really and meet in the middle, with Grace and Humility, Love, if you will the Tao and God.

 

Its optimistic , in these times though I think anything that draws people into these traditions is a good thing

[Thrice Daily]

Personally I believe God created the Tao. What do you think?

Edited September 28 by Thrice Daily

[old3bob]

3 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

Personally I believe God created the Tao. What do you think?

 

Nope, I'd say  that according to the T.T.C. and other Taoist sources  the (Great) Tao is not a created thing.   Btw in Hinduism even Lord Brahma, the creator aspect, is created/or emanated from the Source so to speak and has an extremely long life span of a cosmic period or cycle.  Thus neither of the ways mentioned will match up to or correlate to fundamentalist/orthodox Christianity.  (or by the well meaning but wishful thinking of new agers)

Edited September 28 by old3bob

[Nungali]

 

6 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

I learned recently that the early Christians had a code that they used for the first few hundred years after Christs death.

 

it enabled them to pass information of him and his teachings with much less of a risk of getting persecuted or killed for it.

 

Apparently that’s why we see the fish bumper stickers symbolising Christ. In this secret code Jesus was known as Fish… 

 

I know some people still debate the existence of Jesus. I’m not sure why though, there is just too much first hand evidence of his existence.

 

One of the reasons I believe in him is because he has stood the test of time for the last 2000 years, being possibly the words most popular and enduring message/symbol 

 

Even if it’s been a hypnosis of the masses it has still happened and the message has endured.

 

Ive been working on a book that is written on a pretty simple level that discusses The Tao and Christianity . 
 

Hopefully I’ll be able to share it here in the footer of my messages and admin will be cool with me promoting it here. I think many members of this group might like it.

 

3rd draft and it’s nearly done

 

I have read some  papers on why this might be so  (from an historical sociological perspective ) , there are a lot of dynamics at work .

 

here is an example of what I mean with using the  bible;  Kurt Vonnegut (once 'America's greatest living writer ' ) wrote about story plots . He plotted graphs and lines ; x axis time, y axis good or bad fortune .

 

 

Now this  green line :

 

 

'Cinderella ' is supposedly the most popular plot line , we all relate to it and hope thats the way things are  / will work out .

A series of steps and hard work and we climb up , all of our efforts lead to boon and reward , but then disaster !  We fall, pick ourselves up and then whoosh , something happens beyond our dreams and makes everything better than before !   Hooray  !

 

Point being , the Bible and Jesus story are an exact fit in that plot .  The end though ?  Well, story still going  .... that end bit is Christ's  return  (or the "new Jerusalem " or the original Zoroastrian concept of Frashokereti -  'final renovation' of the world )

 

- with Christianity , we have to see what was going at the times of its  expanse , what forces where at work in the world during those times  to fully understand why it took off as it did .   However most of that exists under the cover of the religious  satisfaction it gives many , they have their own  'personal reasons'  ... not the reasons that  historians and  social anthropologists see in mass movements  of people towards things .

 

.

 

Edited September 28 by Nungali

[Nungali]

4 hours ago, Thrice Daily said:

Personally I believe God created the Tao. What do you think?

 

or the other way around ?

Dao -  0

gave birth to 1   -   'God'  (or 'Monism ' )

and 'gave forth'  2  - duality  ( yin and yang, or if into deitic manifestations   of energies - God and Goddess  (or 'pairs '  - eg in some Egyptian philosophies ; two frogs  )

then came the 'triangle' - 'surface'  out of the 'line' , that came out of the point .

 

All these are 'ideal '   energy  (non material ) but their interaction gives rise to the  10,000  ( 000,000 000,000,000, etc , ) 'things' of material existence .

( Ch 42 )

 

 

[manitou]

On 9/28/2024 at 10:21 AM, Thrice Daily said:

Personally I believe God created the Tao. What do you think?

 

 

We are god.

[Thrice Daily]

Good Point

[old3bob]

12 hours ago, manitou said:

 

 

We are god.

 

We?   (are you saying the image(s) of God which are evolving souls are the same as God?)

Edited September 30 by old3bob

[manitou]

Yup.

[Thrice Daily]

George Church is a professor of genetics at Harvard University’s Wyss Institute for Biologically Inspired Engineering, and also co-author of the book Regenesis: How Synthetic Biology Will Reinvent Nature and Ourselves in DNA. With a title like that, it’s only fitting that the book was used to break the record that it recently did – Church led a team that encoded 70 billion html copies of the book in DNA. That’s 1,000 times more data than the previous record.

 

https://newatlas.com/book-dna-data-storage/23848/

 

 

Edited September 30 by Thrice Daily

[manitou]

21 minutes ago, Thrice Daily said:

George Church is a professor of genetics at Harvard University’s Wyss Institute for Biologically Inspired Engineering, and also co-author of the book Regenesis: How Synthetic Biology Will Reinvent Nature and Ourselves in DNA. With a title like that, it’s only fitting that the book was used to break the record that it recently did – Church led a team that encoded 70 billion html copies of the book in DNA. That’s 1,000 times more data than the previous record.

 

https://newatlas.com/book-dna-data-storage/23848/

 

 

 

 

Fascinating article, thanks!  The words 'next gen sequencing' popped out at me.  I'll bet that has to do with the fact that time really isn't linear, that it's all here now.  Past, present, future?  Here now.

[old3bob]

9 hours ago, manitou said:

Yup.

 

problem with that is that "God" or Source is non-evolving while souls are evolving or devolving,  DNA is also evolving or devolving.  I don't think grandiose sounding, above it all thinking overrides Dharma, karma, and ego which have to be resolved before enlightenment is at and stays at "God" being.  (which does not mean visits to same can not be made, aka as "coming and going".  Btw. I'd say some of your previous posts, those of others and mine over time which is part of the 3d world demonstrate a process of evolution that we've all been gong through.  (regardless of or because of a non-evolutionary Source)

Edited October 1 by old3bob

[Thrice Daily]

I like this idea of the native Indians. That the dream world has all the stuff that is ready to be born into actual energy in the moment. So the moment is passing into the future (filtered from all potential futures) 

 

I remember it being explained as a ‘ring pass not’ zone and it was pictured as a huge donut 🍩 

 

we and time exist in a slice edge of the donut and take what we need from the dream world to create our actual reality. 
 

I remember reading it and smiling thinking it was a pretty nice explanation.

 

I’ve pondered Eternal recurrence for 25 years or so now and I’ll be damned if I can come up with a decent actual theory that might be true.

 

it’s a tough question. Changing what cannot be changed. 
 

I felt for a while it was useful to look at language in a similar sense. That is kind of working backwards as well as being created forwards, just like us , we could be working towards being the total manifestation of God.

 

That might be what’s going on, who knows.

[old3bob]

48 minutes ago, Thrice Daily said:

I like this idea of the native Indians. That the dream world has all the stuff that is ready to be born into actual energy in the moment. So the moment is passing into the future (filtered from all potential futures) 

 

I remember it being explained as a ‘ring pass not’ zone and it was pictured as a huge donut 🍩 

 

we and time exist in a slice edge of the donut and take what we need from the dream world to create our actual reality. 
 

I remember reading it and smiling thinking it was a pretty nice explanation.

 

I’ve pondered Eternal recurrence for 25 years or so now and I’ll be damned if I can come up with a decent actual theory that might be true.

 

it’s a tough question. Changing what cannot be changed. 
 

I felt for a while it was useful to look at language in a similar sense. That is kind of working backwards as well as being created forwards, just like us , we could be working towards being the total manifestation of God.

 

That might be what’s going on, who knows.

 

question is what is actual and lasting reality,  for if we become identified in one realm or another is that reality enough to satisfy besides just for the  moment(s) it exists? 

[Thrice Daily]

yeah  I think so, I just try to stay calm and not get too caught up in it. Hopefully good choices are made and we get help when its needed the most. At the moment it is brief for me i'm still very much in this realm most of the time, thankfully... I'm a householder.

[stirling]

4 hours ago, old3bob said:

question is what is actual and lasting reality,  for if we become identified in one realm or another is that reality enough to satisfy besides just for the  moment(s) it exists? 

 

Yes! Looking for what is NOT impermanent is the way to go (in Buddhism anyway). The short answer is "emptiness", which can be pointed out in any tradition.